EU leaders push Britain to leave amid post-vote turmoil

[webfact]

EU leaders push Britain to leave amid post-vote turmoil
By RAF CASERT and LORNE COOK

BRUSSELS (AP) — EU leaders pressed British Prime Minister David Cameron on Tuesday for a quick and clear plan for Britain's exit from their union, saying there's no turning back from last week's vote to leave despite worldwide uncertainty about the continent's future.

As leader after leader rejected Cameron's pleas for favorable conditions for Britain once it leaves, he frustrated them by refusing to initiate the divorce proceedings immediately. After what's probably his last dinner with EU counterparts, Cameron insisted he would leave the departure negotiations to his successor, saying London needs time to formally trigger the start of negotiations

"Everyone wants to see a clear model appear" for Britain's future relations with the bloc, he said, adding that he "can't put a time frame on that."

German Chancellor Angela Merkel dismissed suggestions that Cameron's successor might not start the formal EU withdrawal process because of the financial turmoil prompted by the vote and wide confusion about how to extract a country from the EU.

"I see no way to reverse it," Merkel said after Tuesday's meetings. She said this is not the time for "wishful thinking."

EU Council President Donald Tusk said the bloc's leaders want UK exit plans "to be specified as soon as possible." Earlier, he said "Europe is ready to start the divorce process, even today."

During the earlier meeting, Cameron sat at one end of the oval summit table in blue shirt sleeves, arguing for the best possible exit conditions for his island nation. Around the table, other EU leaders refused to negotiate, seemingly eager to kick Britain out as soon as possible to avoid further political and economic turmoil after the shock and emotion of the British vote to leave last week.

"We are not on Facebook, where things are complicated. We are married or divorced but not something in between," Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel added.

Outside the Council room, markets were still in upheaval as they sought to recover from the unexpected exit vote, which will rob the EU of its biggest military power, its second economy and a diplomatic giant.

In a special session of the EU parliament hours earlier, there had been cries of campaign "lies" from legislators regretting the loss of Britain, and taunting by "leave" campaigner Nigel Farage.

"You as a political project are in denial," declared Farage, leader of the anti-EU U.K. Independence Party. "When I came here 17 years ago and said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you all laughed at me. Well, you're not laughing now, are you?"

When the traditional family photo of the leaders at the summit was taken, few were smiling.

Realizing the threat of a rift further tearing at the unity of a bloc of more than 500 million people, Tusk said he was planning a special meeting of the EU leaders in Slovakia in September to chart a way ahead. German Chancellor Angela Merkel pledged to use "all her strength" to prevent the EU from drifting apart.

The leaders of Britain's "leave" campaign hope the nation can still enjoy many perks of the EU internal market for business, while being able to deny EU citizens entry to the U.K. to address concerns about unlimited EU immigration.

The leaders of Germany and France, the bloc's biggest economies, made clear that isn't an option.

French President Francois Hollande said Britain will have to meet strict conditions if it wants to continue to be part of the single market.

Merkel said "Whoever wants to leave this family cannot expect to have no more obligations but to keep privileges."

Unshackled from Britain, the other EU members need to plot a common way ahead. Yet differences between founding nations in the west and newer members in the east are increasingly tough to reconcile.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban railed against EU migration policies, which played a major role in the British referendum.

"If the EU cannot solve the migration situation, then the challenges we experienced now in the case of the United Kingdom will grow," he said.

Central European nations led by Hungary refuse to accept the imposition of EU refugee quotas. Further north, Austria, Germany, Sweden and Denmark have all tightened border controls in response to the arrival of more than 1 million migrants last year. Their entry overwhelmed Greece and Italy.

First, though, the EU needs to get rid of Britain.

EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker and other European leaders insist they won't begin any talks until Britain invokes the Article 50 of the EU's Treaty of Lisbon, which sets in motion a two-year process to split from the group designed to unify Europe after the horrors of World War II.

Juncker said he had banned his policy commissioners from holding any secret talks with Britain on its future until London triggers the exit clause.

"No notification, no negotiation," he said to resounding applause.

The reaction to Britain's vote to exit the EU was at times acrimonious. Farage was booed and jeered when he urged Europe to give Britain a good trade deal when it leaves, saying jobs in Germany's auto sector might be at stake if it doesn't.

"Why don't we just be pragmatic, sensible, grown-up, reasonable ... and cut a sensible tariff-free deal?" Farage asked.

In a speech interrupted several times, Farage warned: "The U.K. will not be the last member state to leave the European Union."

Bearing out his words, French far-right leader Marine Le Pen called the British vote "an extraordinary victory for democracy — a slap for a European system based more and more on fear, blackmail and lies."

Despite such attention-grabbing comments, it was Scottish EU Parliament member Alyn Smith who received a standing ovation with his emotional speech noting that a majority of Scots voted to stay in the EU.

"There are a lot of things to be negotiated and we will need cool heads and warm hearts, but please remember this: Scotland did not let you down," Smith said. "Please, I beg you, cher colleagues, do not let Scotland down now."

___

Associated Press writers Geir Moulson and Angela Charlton in Brussels and David Rising in Berlin contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2016-06-29

[little mary sunshine]

E U will screw The UK to the wall to

Set an example for the other 27 to

Remain!!!

[bkkcanuck8]

E U will screw The UK to the wall to

Set an example for the other 27 to

Remain!!!

It is really laughable at how much some people in the leave camp are with regards to taking responsibility. How is Europe suppose to "screw UK" -- by not allowing them to leave?? By imposing sanctions? Oh, yes apparently they think that being treated equally to other countries that the EU trades with and not "special" - that is somehow making an example of the UK. Bloody well start taking responsibility for your own decisions, any independent state is not owed anything.... they are only answerable to their own citizens and not some bloody foreigner!

English is apparently not understood too well by the people who are suppose to be english as a first language.... What did the question ask and what does "leave" mean????

Edited June 29, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[little mary sunshine]

Sanctions, sanctions and more sanctions!!!

[Kwasaki]

E U will screw The UK to the wall to

Set an example for the other 27 to

Remain!!!

Dare they do it to England will be very interested to know how.

[lungbing]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK, we just want to be selective. If you are employed or self-supporting or have skills the UK need then you are welcome. If you are an unemployed magazine seller with 5 children back home for whom you hope to claim UK benefits then you are not welcome.

Nobody questions Thailand's right to expect people to have enough money to support themselves and to have to prove it, if only yearly, why should the UK be any different?

I await the screams of "racist, racist."

[mommysboy]

E U will screw The UK to the wall to

Set an example for the other 27 to

Remain!!!

It is really laughable at how much some people in the leave camp are with regards to taking responsibility. How is Europe suppose to "screw UK" -- by not allowing them to leave?? By imposing sanctions? Oh, yes apparently they think that being treated equally to other countries that the EU trades with and not "special" - that is somehow making an example of the UK. Bloody well start taking responsibility for your own decisions, any independent state is not owed anything.... they are only answerable to their own citizens and not some bloody foreigner!

English is apparently not understood too well by the people who are suppose to be english as a first language.... What did the question ask and what does "leave" mean????

Showing his true colours. at last!

[Kiwiken]

E U will screw The UK to the wall to

Set an example for the other 27 to

Remain!!!

Dare they do it to England will be very interested to know how.

I am sure the UK has a few Nukes. Can always pal up with Putin that would ruffle a lot of feathers. Two Fronts

[happy Joe]

Understand that Europe needs unity to move forward.

Members who are constantly a foot in a foot outside are obstacles to its development.

Recall that the first step will be democratic confederation and finally a federal state like the USA.

The Britaniques always opposed strongly to this project.

That is why there will be no outstretched hand and also why the Europeans are eager to validate the divorce.

[ilostmypassword]

Understand that Europe needs unity to move forward.

Members who are constantly a foot in a foot outside are obstacles to its development.

Recall that the first step will be democratic confederation and finally a federal state like the USA.

The Britaniques always opposed strongly to this project.

That is why there will be no outstretched hand and also why the Europeans are eager to validate the divorce.

And how exactly will they enact this plan? Just issue decrees? Such nonsense.

[MissAndry]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK,

You're wrong, I do!

[Dagnabbit]

E U will screw The UK to the wall to

Set an example for the other 27 to

Remain!!!

Ze Germans won't let them

[ilostmypassword]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK,

You're wrong, I do!

And there are a lot more benighted souls like him who believed that's what Brexit would bring. And still believes it even though the Leave leaders are now walking that back.

[MissAndry]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK,

You're wrong, I do!

And there are a lot more benighted souls like him who believed that's what Brexit would bring. And still believes it even though the Leave leaders are now walking that back.

You're wrong, it's what Brexit will bring, one way or another.

And before you start calling me names, I want the UK to be populated by native English speakers with British passports.

And before you pick any fault with that, I'm more than happy for the spouses of British NES to be included with no financial obligations.

If you are a British passport holder and have a Thai spouse, they're more than welcome, no proof of funding required.

Edited June 29, 2016 by MissAndry

[MJP]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK,

You're wrong, I do!

Why?

I agree the UK should be able to deport foreign criminals and have checks to ensure criminals don't enter the UK with permanent leave to remain. But as for normal, decent working people, what's the problem?

Edited June 29, 2016 by MJP

[bkkcanuck8]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK,

You're wrong, I do!

Why?

I agree the UK should be able to deport foreign criminals and have checks to ensure criminals don't enter the UK with permanent leave to remain. But as for normal, decent working people, what's the problem?

Because he has been quite honest about hating all foreigners - whether they be from the EU or Scotland or farther afield.... I think he is one of the posters who has been most clear on that fact. I can't say I would like being his neighbour... because unless you are a clone I get the feeling he would hate you being different.... probably even hate you for being too the same as well

[MJP]

Nobody wants to deny EU citizens entry to the UK,

You're wrong, I do!

Why?

I agree the UK should be able to deport foreign criminals and have checks to ensure criminals don't enter the UK with permanent leave to remain. But as for normal, decent working people, what's the problem?

Because he has been quite honest about hating all foreigners - whether they be from the EU or Scotland or farther afield.... I think he is one of the posters who has been most clear on that fact. I can't say I would like being his neighbour... because unless you are a clone I get the feeling he would hate you being different.... probably even hate you for being too the same as well

I can understand a country wanting to manage its own affairs and stick with what it knows works for them but I don't get this racism nonsense. My best mates over here in Blighty are Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian some of them and my one of my kids is mixed race the other two pure Thai.

From a practical standpoint the UK needs immigration. People don't understand demographics of the post boomer generation. Ironically, this isn't constrained to the West. Thailand's birth rate (just as an example) has slipped to that of Germany at 1.4 births per woman!

[bkkcanuck8]

I can understand a country wanting to manage its own affairs and stick with what it knows works for them but I don't get this racism nonsense. My best mates over here in Blighty are Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian some of them and my one of my kids is mixed race the other two pure Thai.

From a practical standpoint the UK needs immigration. People don't understand demographics of the post boomer generation. Ironically, this isn't constrained to the West. Thailand's birth rate (just as an example) has slipped to that of Germany at 1.4 births per woman!

Immigration rates to Canada are generally pretty high, Toronto where I lived a good chunk of my adult life is probably close to 50% foreign born... and yet because most people generally feel accepted.... is one of the more livable cities. I think for the most part since the population is diverse and most people integrate in -- even if culturally different -- works quite well.

I don't know why there is a difference, other than a general respect for are similarities and differences (which we find time to celebrate) but it makes Toronto a much more interesting city to live in (much more so than 40 years ago when personally I would have preferred Montreal). It is not the same as where I grew up which was about as homogeneous as you could get ... a bedroom community where my secondary school with 1500 students... where diversity was maybe one black family, a couple asian families.... and the rest.... mostly white and protestant. I think most could not wait to escape as soon as they graduated.

Now of course there are immigration failures, but then there are native born failures as well

Probably half of my closest friends are of Chinese ethnicity (some born in Canada; some born in HK) as well as someone who was Indian born in Sudan, etc.

[bkkcanuck8]

By god, I have finally figured it out..... The referendum to leave is not about the UK leaving Europe, but about having Farage leave the EU....

I had wrongly thought the referendum was about the UK leaving the EU - but after days of confusion with the UK actually refusing to leave and reading this article in the Wall Street Journal.... It has become obvious.... The UK will continue not being in full control of immigration and free movement of labour.... They will still send money to the EU. They will still accept EU regulations.... the only thing that changes is they won't have a say.... which means the only thing that leaves is Farage since his position has been eliminated. Finally it all makes sense.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-contenders-to-succeed-cameron-weigh-price-of-eu-single-market-access-1467234465

Home Secretary Theresa May, who is expected to enter the race to become the Conservative Party’s next leader, has acknowledged in the past the uncertainties around what single-market access the U.K. would be able to negotiate with the EU.

“We do know that in a negotiation we would need to make concessions in order to access it, and those concessions could well be about accepting EU regulations, over which we would have no say, making financial contributions, just as we do now, accepting free-movement rules, just as we do now, or quite possibly all three combined,” said Ms. May said, who campaigned alongside Mr. Cameron to keep the U.K. in the EU. “It is not clear why other EU member states would give Britain a better deal than they themselves enjoy.”

[Richard W]

English is apparently not understood too well by the people who are suppose to be english as a first language.... What did the question ask and what does "leave" mean????

We don't know what 'leave' means. Remaining in the EEA was thought to be a very real option, but not very appealing. Many people though it included exiting the EEA.

[sirineou]

Understand that Europe needs unity to move forward.

Members who are constantly a foot in a foot outside are obstacles to its development.

Recall that the first step will be democratic confederation and finally a federal state like the USA.

The Britaniques always opposed strongly to this project.

That is why there will be no outstretched hand and also why the Europeans are eager to validate the divorce.

You don't suppose the Brit's are being played? wink wink

You make a very astute observation.

[Kiwiken]

Understand that Europe needs unity to move forward.

Members who are constantly a foot in a foot outside are obstacles to its development.

Recall that the first step will be democratic confederation and finally a federal state like the USA.

The Britaniques always opposed strongly to this project.

That is why there will be no outstretched hand and also why the Europeans are eager to validate the divorce.

You don't suppose the Brit's are being played? wink wink

You make a very astute observation.

History shows such Unions are doomed to fail. We may have better technology but human beings are still driven by fear and envy. European union like the US Union will fail the cracks are there when it tears itself asunder and battered island is better than a melting pot.

[bkkcanuck8]

Understand that Europe needs unity to move forward.

Members who are constantly a foot in a foot outside are obstacles to its development.

Recall that the first step will be democratic confederation and finally a federal state like the USA.

The Britaniques always opposed strongly to this project.

That is why there will be no outstretched hand and also why the Europeans are eager to validate the divorce.

You don't suppose the Brit's are being played? wink wink

You make a very astute observation.

History shows such Unions are doomed to fail. We may have better technology but human beings are still driven by fear and envy. European union like the US Union will fail the cracks are there when it tears itself asunder and battered island is better than a melting pot.

If that is what you get from your history lessons - you might want to read the entire history.... everything has failed at some point. So a UK part of EU will fail, and an independent UK will fail. Nothing left to do but irradicate the problem.... human genocide .... the only thing that will stop the failure....

It is also a reason why Scotland must leave the UK because such unions always fail.

Edited June 29, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[Publicus]

England is heading toward returning to being England again, i.e., that 16th century place. It wasn't a good thing then and it's a worse place in the 21st century.

The English people's identity apart from the continent served 'em well from the mid-19th century until now.

England did not fall to fascism nor did it face afterward the possibility of Soviet tanks rolling across it during the Cold War. England's only post industrial revolution continental ally (real) was another democracy, France.

Now that identity of being separate from the continent has become a boomerang that's going to whack 'em in the head. If not cut it off.

After the great likelihood of Scotland and N Ireland exiting UK, the deteriorating Britain -- EnglandandWales -- will be swallowed by either CCP China or the USA. Hopefully EU will be content to pick up and incorporate the remnants of Britain (led by Germany, France, Italy, of all countries!).

Too many Brits are just not keeping up.

[tonbridgebrit]

England is heading toward returning to being England again, i.e., that 16th century place. It wasn't a good thing then and it's a worse place in the 21st century.

The English people's identity apart from the continent served 'em well from the mid-19th century until now.

England did not fall to fascism nor did it face afterward the possibility of Soviet tanks rolling across it during the Cold War. England's only post industrial revolution continental ally (real) was another democracy, France.

Now that identity of being separate from the continent has become a boomerang that's going to whack 'em in the head. If not cut it off.

After the great likelihood of Scotland and N Ireland exiting UK, the deteriorating Britain -- EnglandandWales -- will be swallowed by either CCP China or the USA. Hopefully EU will be content to pick up and incorporate the remnants of Britain (led by Germany, France, Italy, of all countries!).

Too many Brits are just not keeping up.

YOU are living proof that foreigners don't understand Britain.

Look, Britain's exit from the EU is not actually good, but speculation about a catastrophe is exaggerated. Foreigners like you, with your opinions, this is one of the things that made some people actually vote to GET OUT.

Stop coming up with this nonsense about Britain being swallowed up by China or the USA. In all honesty, given the choice of being swallowed up by China or America, I'm not actually sure which one I would choose. I choose neither. Britain has already shown that it doesn't want to be swallowed up by Germany and France.

And also, Obama turning up in Britain, and opening his mouth, going on about how remaining in the EU was a good idea. Lots of people in the REMAIN camp knew that it was probably NOT good for Obama to say that. Obama just gave the impression of being a foreign politician trying to influence a British issue.

And also, why are YOU smirking over Britain's exit from the EU ?

We all know why Obama badly wanted Britain to stay in the EU. Obama is trying to create that TPP thing, the Trans Pacific Partnership. This is a trade bloc involving the USA and some Far East nations and others, but not China. Obama's intent was to use the issue of Britain being closer to America, and then, through Britain, America would access the vast market of the European Union. That way, once it works, the USA becomes a massive country taking over planet earth, with access to the Far East via the TPP, and access to the EU via Britain.

We all know, without Britain, Washington's link with the EU is massively reduced. France and Germany simply don't trust or like the USA. The EU doing a trade war with America ? It's more likely now, because Britain is not in the EU, Britain is not there to stop France and Germany showing their non-friendly attitude towards America. And IF you think that Gemany and France love the USA, well, that shows how much you know.

Okay, now what ? I suggest Washington offers favourable trade terms with Britain. The USA already imports a mountain of cheap goods from China, with minimal taxes. I suggest Washington imports goods from Britain with the same minimal taxes, if YOU wish to have any influence in the EU. Remember, the EU is talking tough with Britain, but it's only talk. The EU is scared that the other EU countries might break away, that's why they're talking tough to Britain right now. They want to frighten the other EU countries into NOT leaving.

And one final thing. Stop talking as if you have no links with Britain. Most Americans are not actually black people from Africa. Most Americans are not actually people from Continental Europe. The biggest single group in America, is actually British people who are now Americans. Yes, America is a place where loads of them have ancestry from Britain. Americans are actually, mainly a bunch of Brits living in America.

Washington, give favourable trade terms to Britain. Do it. We know that YOU need to hold back Russia. Putin is, after all, smirking over this British exit.

[Publicus]

England is heading toward returning to being England again, i.e., that 16th century place. It wasn't a good thing then and it's a worse place in the 21st century.

The English people's identity apart from the continent served 'em well from the mid-19th century until now.

England did not fall to fascism nor did it face afterward the possibility of Soviet tanks rolling across it during the Cold War. England's only post industrial revolution continental ally (real) was another democracy, France.

Now that identity of being separate from the continent has become a boomerang that's going to whack 'em in the head. If not cut it off.

After the great likelihood of Scotland and N Ireland exiting UK, the deteriorating Britain -- EnglandandWales -- will be swallowed by either CCP China or the USA. Hopefully EU will be content to pick up and incorporate the remnants of Britain (led by Germany, France, Italy, of all countries!).

Too many Brits are just not keeping up.

YOU are living proof that foreigners don't understand Britain.

Look, Britain's exit from the EU is not actually good, but speculation about a catastrophe is exaggerated. Foreigners like you, with your opinions, this is one of the things that made some people actually vote to GET OUT.

Stop coming up with this nonsense about Britain being swallowed up by China or the USA. In all honesty, given the choice of being swallowed up by China or America, I'm not actually sure which one I would choose. I choose neither. Britain has already shown that it doesn't want to be swallowed up by Germany and France.

And also, Obama turning up in Britain, and opening his mouth, going on about how remaining in the EU was a good idea. Lots of people in the REMAIN camp knew that it was probably NOT good for Obama to say that. Obama just gave the impression of being a foreign politician trying to influence a British issue.

And also, why are YOU smirking over Britain's exit from the EU ?

We all know why Obama badly wanted Britain to stay in the EU. Obama is trying to create that TPP thing, the Trans Pacific Partnership. This is a trade bloc involving the USA and some Far East nations and others, but not China. Obama's intent was to use the issue of Britain being closer to America, and then, through Britain, America would access the vast market of the European Union. That way, once it works, the USA becomes a massive country taking over planet earth, with access to the Far East via the TPP, and access to the EU via Britain.

We all know, without Britain, Washington's link with the EU is massively reduced. France and Germany simply don't trust or like the USA. The EU doing a trade war with America ? It's more likely now, because Britain is not in the EU, Britain is not there to stop France and Germany showing their non-friendly attitude towards America. And IF you think that Gemany and France love the USA, well, that shows how much you know.

Okay, now what ? I suggest Washington offers favourable trade terms with Britain. The USA already imports a mountain of cheap goods from China, with minimal taxes. I suggest Washington imports goods from Britain with the same minimal taxes, if YOU wish to have any influence in the EU. Remember, the EU is talking tough with Britain, but it's only talk. The EU is scared that the other EU countries might break away, that's why they're talking tough to Britain right now. They want to frighten the other EU countries into NOT leaving.

And one final thing. Stop talking as if you have no links with Britain. Most Americans are not actually black people from Africa. Most Americans are not actually people from Continental Europe. The biggest single group in America, is actually British people who are now Americans. Yes, America is a place where loads of them have ancestry from Britain. Americans are actually, mainly a bunch of Brits living in America.

Washington, give favourable trade terms to Britain. Do it. We know that YOU need to hold back Russia. Putin is, after all, smirking over this British exit.

YOU are living proof that foreigners don't understand Britain.

Get a grip plse thx.

Look, Britain's exit from the EU is not actually good, but speculation about a catastrophe is exaggerated.

CCP in Beijing rather have the accurate and frank assessment that UK returning to being Britain again would reduce it to a minor country. (People's Republic of China have their own reasons from recent history to be blunt and open about it.) New old Britain would remain in the G-7 (for a while anyway) but it would lose a lot. CCP and the People's Republic are already buying up the place so you'd have to choose China or USA like it or not. (It's the old big fish, small fish syndrome of history.) Britain has a lot to want and not much to protect or preserve it so heavy is the head and all of that.

Obama turning up in Britain, and opening his mouth

The world knows the Leave voters are pissing up a rope regardless of whether they actually knew what they voted for. Nor did President Obama simply "turn up" in Britain -- no one can reasonably blame President Obama for the UK's present circumstance, either entirely or in part. The President's brief comments in respect of the (still unresolved) question are peripheral at best. When people outside USA state their preferences in US politics and elections 90 percent of us receive that as the normal and acceptable routine, given the impact to the world of voters' decisions in the US. The UK vote has continental and global implications well beyond UK as we have already and readily seen and felt. I wanted to know what my President thought of Brexit before the vote thank you and he spoke to me from the UK which had its own particular impact you're welcome. He's right.

Obama is trying to create that TPP thing

The post concerning this is nonsense and drivel.

Stop talking as if you have no links with Britain

More nonsense. Thanks to George III and his predecessors we're independent and sovereign. Thanks to Magna Carta we're a constitutional Republic with democracy. The pond has always been smaller than the channel. As England accelerates its understandable movement away from the continent the time is becoming ripe for a greater union of the two peoples who for centuries now have been united by a common history and separated by a common language.

So do get a grip here in all of this.

[ilostmypassword]

England is heading toward returning to being England again, i.e., that 16th century place. It wasn't a good thing then and it's a worse place in the 21st century.

The English people's identity apart from the continent served 'em well from the mid-19th century until now.

England did not fall to fascism nor did it face afterward the possibility of Soviet tanks rolling across it during the Cold War. England's only post industrial revolution continental ally (real) was another democracy, France.

Now that identity of being separate from the continent has become a boomerang that's going to whack 'em in the head. If not cut it off.

After the great likelihood of Scotland and N Ireland exiting UK, the deteriorating Britain -- EnglandandWales -- will be swallowed by either CCP China or the USA. Hopefully EU will be content to pick up and incorporate the remnants of Britain (led by Germany, France, Italy, of all countries!).

Too many Brits are just not keeping up.

YOU are living proof that foreigners don't understand Britain.

Look, Britain's exit from the EU is not actually good, but speculation about a catastrophe is exaggerated. Foreigners like you, with your opinions, this is one of the things that made some people actually vote to GET OUT.

Stop coming up with this nonsense about Britain being swallowed up by China or the USA. In all honesty, given the choice of being swallowed up by China or America, I'm not actually sure which one I would choose. I choose neither. Britain has already shown that it doesn't want to be swallowed up by Germany and France.

And also, Obama turning up in Britain, and opening his mouth, going on about how remaining in the EU was a good idea. Lots of people in the REMAIN camp knew that it was probably NOT good for Obama to say that. Obama just gave the impression of being a foreign politician trying to influence a British issue.

And also, why are YOU smirking over Britain's exit from the EU ?

We all know why Obama badly wanted Britain to stay in the EU. Obama is trying to create that TPP thing, the Trans Pacific Partnership. This is a trade bloc involving the USA and some Far East nations and others, but not China. Obama's intent was to use the issue of Britain being closer to America, and then, through Britain, America would access the vast market of the European Union. That way, once it works, the USA becomes a massive country taking over planet earth, with access to the Far East via the TPP, and access to the EU via Britain.

We all know, without Britain, Washington's link with the EU is massively reduced. France and Germany simply don't trust or like the USA. The EU doing a trade war with America ? It's more likely now, because Britain is not in the EU, Britain is not there to stop France and Germany showing their non-friendly attitude towards America. And IF you think that Gemany and France love the USA, well, that shows how much you know.

Okay, now what ? I suggest Washington offers favourable trade terms with Britain. The USA already imports a mountain of cheap goods from China, with minimal taxes. I suggest Washington imports goods from Britain with the same minimal taxes, if YOU wish to have any influence in the EU. Remember, the EU is talking tough with Britain, but it's only talk. The EU is scared that the other EU countries might break away, that's why they're talking tough to Britain right now. They want to frighten the other EU countries into NOT leaving.

And one final thing. Stop talking as if you have no links with Britain. Most Americans are not actually black people from Africa. Most Americans are not actually people from Continental Europe. The biggest single group in America, is actually British people who are now Americans. Yes, America is a place where loads of them have ancestry from Britain. Americans are actually, mainly a bunch of Brits living in America.

Washington, give favourable trade terms to Britain. Do it. We know that YOU need to hold back Russia. Putin is, after all, smirking over this British exit.

Americans are actually, mainly a bunch of Brits living in America.

The population of the USA is at most, 25 percent British extraction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#Analysis_by_2000_Federal_Population_Census .

An appeal on the grounds of ancestry to an immigrant nation like the USA is ludicrous. You think the USA should base its trade policy on the basis of Auld Lang Syne? And very Auld Lang Syne at that.

Britain is not there to stop France and Germany showing their non-friendly attitude towards America.

As for France or Germany allegedly not liking the USA. Who cares? Right now the EU enjoys a huge trade surplus with the USA. You think they want to risk damaging that out of pique? Maybe if those nations were composed of 7 year olds you might have a point.

You seem confused to. On the one hand you write Remember, the EU is talking tough with Britain, but it's only talk but on the other Washington, give favourable trade terms to Britain. you want the USA to give the UK special favors? Why, if there's really no problem?

And if you're right, that the UK's withdrawal from the EU is helping Putin, then the USA should reward the UK by giving it special favors?

Edited June 30, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[bkkcanuck8]

New old Britain would remain in the G-7 (for a while anyway) but it would lose a lot.

I find the term "a lot" to be vague and relative.... the UK (runt sized version) would have to have an apocalyptic fall to drop out of the G-7.... so I would just edit out the "for a while" thing..... Unless you are saying the UK's economy will be cut in half... something I think unlikely. England / Wales have close to double the population of Canada, and of course it would have to fall farther down than what Italy is now to "exit" the G-7. i don't think even the most dire predictions come close to that scenario

Edited June 30, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[ilostmypassword]

New old Britain would remain in the G-7 (for a while anyway) but it would lose a lot.

I find the term "a lot" to be vague and relative.... the UK (runt sized version) would have to have an apocalyptic fall to drop out of the G-7.... so I would just edit out the "for a while" thing..... Unless you are saying the UK's economy will be cut in half... something I think unlikely. England / Wales have close to double the population of Canada, and of course it would have to fall farther down than what Italy is now to "exit" the G-7. i don't think even the most dire predictions come close to that scenario

The economists I respect - the ones who called the consequences and effect of things like QE, austerity, and the Euro correctly - think the UK might lost a point or 2 off its GDP. That's not nothing but it's not a catastrophe either. I think the people really to blame for this mess are the Germans who imposed austerity on the Eurozone in the wake of what was a massive depression for some of its member nations and a recession for most of the others. That was just nuts. And because the Eurozone economy was so badly affected, that encouraged migration to the non-Euro UK. I think the only hope for the EU is to get rid of the Euro. It never really made sense economically and now it's a straitjacket for poorer nations and a huge export subsidy for the Germans.

[bkkcanuck8]

The ones to blame are not the Germans. The Euro had a rather generous standard of running up to a 3% deficit. Every country will have good times and bad types - such is the cycle of any economy. Those that ran rather hug deficits leaving nothing left for emergencies are to blame for their own situation. The PIGS of Europe were the PIGS of Europe long before the crisis -- they had that reputation because they were utterly running their economies into the ground. Unfortunately now most of the entire western world has decided to do the same thing....

The only blame that Germans as well as others have with regards to these countries -- is they should have never allowed them to join the Euro and they should not have turned a blind eye when they cooked the books to make it seem like they were ready.... but in the end it was these countries that actually cooked the books.

This mismanagement will have to be flushed through the system, and countries that were fraudulently added to the Euro may still have to exit.

Edited June 30, 2016 by bkkcanuck8