From London, with love: tens of thousands rally against Brexit vote

[MissAndry]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

Referendum - a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Except that their hasn't been a direct decision, has there?

In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?

@ impulse

I've read many of your posts before, and have to say this last post was beneath you.

Have you forgotten your honour and integrity so easily?

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[happy Joe]

I am a leaver, I did.

Oh yeah and I ain't old nor stupid but ...

Uh...

Nothing finally.

well....explain

Just a little humor buddy, it was too tempting.

[impulse]

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

Referendum - a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Except that their hasn't been a direct decision, has there?

In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?

3 frogs sitting on a log, and one of them decides to jump off. How many frogs are left on the log?

Answer: 3. He just decided to jump.

52% of Brits decided to leave the EU.....

There has been no direct decision because no action is required as a result. Parliament can do whatever they please.

[impulse]

Except that their hasn't been a direct decision, has there?

In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?

@ impulse

I've read many of your posts before, and have to say this last post was beneath you.

Have you forgotten your honour and integrity so easily?

This question of honor and integrity coming from a poster who first advocated terrorism, then modified his post to a personal attack?

[MissAndry]

This question of honor and integrity coming from a poster who first advocated terrorism, then modified his post to a personal attack?

I have never pretended to have either. Both those character traits are for men.

(I prefer the title freedom fighter to terrorist, I'm on the side of democracy)

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[bkkcanuck8]

There has been no direct decision because no action is required as a result. Parliament can do whatever they please.

That is like arguing the role of the Canadian Parliament (and I would suspect the same of the UK parliament since the governor general is just exercising royal powers) is advisory and never makes a direct decision because the Governor General has the power to withhold Royal Assent effectively vetoing any bill that Parliament passes. In addition they could (although never do) exercise Royal Prerogative which would allow them to act alone within the jurisdiction of the Monarch. It would of course cause what would generally be viewed as a constitutional crisis because it would effectively overrule the democratic will of the people.

The same actions in regards to a referendum would be no different.

[mcfish]

A 2nd vote could come along. Don't be so quick to diss the peaceful protestors. It was peaceful protesters against the US war in VN which influenced that war. Initially, powers-that-be were chiding the protesters as a bunch of bedraggled hippies who didn't know how to brush their hair.

I think a 2nd vote would reverse Brexit.

Would it reverse Cameron?

[MissAndry]

There has been no direct decision because no action is required as a result. Parliament can do whatever they please.

That is like arguing the role of the Canadian Parliament (and I would suspect the same of the UK parliament since the governor general is just exercising royal powers) is advisory and never makes a direct decision because the Governor General has the power to withhold Royal Assent effectively vetoing any bill that Parliament passes. In addition they could (although never do) exercise Royal Prerogative which would allow them to act alone within the jurisdiction of the Monarch. It would of course cause what would generally be viewed as a constitutional crisis because it would effectively overrule the democratic will of the people.

The same actions in regards to a referendum would be no different.

Not to mention the House of Lords, MPs are so far down the list, hardly worth taking their votes into account really.

[ezzra]

Many misguided British people thinks that this is a game and they can ask for a do-over referendum, eat the broth

you have prepared for your salves, for every cloud there's a silver linings, and one of the biggest lining

will be that the UK can control it's borders more effectively, keeping all the undesirables and the riff-raffs

out or under check, unlike the open borders they have now when every poor man of the EU has a free

meal ticket waiting for him in the UK.....

[shirtless]

The headline should read.

Tens of thousands of European Migrants rally against Brexit vote

Edited July 3, 2016 by shirtless

[Eclipse]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

Hardly a glowing mandate.

We can only hope that PM Teresa May manages to slow down or halt this mad rush to oblivion.

[Eclipse]

and one of the biggest lining

will be that the UK can control it's borders more effectively, keeping all the undesirables and the riff-raffs

out or under check, unlike the open borders they have now when every poor man of the EU has a free

meal ticket waiting for him in the UK.....

Have you seen some of the wonderful Brits being interviewed on the news over the last week?

The "riff raffs" are already there.

[SgtRock]

There is a general acceptance with European leaders and with UK Politicians that the UK will leave the current entity that is the EU.

Fundamental changes to the EU will occur, what that will be and where it leads is anyone's guess.

The German government has been canvassing support for a senior political leader to gather views in European capitals on a new future for the continent in the wake of the Brexit vote, with the aim of completing the task before the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome next March.

EU heads of state, reeling from the UK’s vote to leave the European Union, want to be seen to be responding to the Eurosceptic mood, and some want a new “vision for Europe” document that distils the conflicting thinking.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/brexit-shock-calls-change-eu-european-union

[Jip99]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

Hardly a glowing mandate.

We can only hope that PM Teresa May manages to slow down or halt this mad rush to oblivion.

My vote was based on neither bigotry nor lies.

I am thrilled to be one of the 53%+ English voters who achieved the magnificent LEAVE victory.

If Theresa May or any other wet Tory tries to dilute the benefits of leaving she will encounter a backlash.

At least Cameron has the balls to recognise that the will of the people needs to be implemented.

[DNPBC0]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

'Democracy' may have been informed/advised, but the decision to implement article 50 must still be made by Parliament. The only alternative is by royal prerogative which is most unlikely to occur. There seems to be a widespread misunderstanding of how democracy works in the UK where new laws and the repeal of existing statutes are made by Parliament, not the electorate. People elect members of Parliament to make decisions about what is and what is not in the statute book, but they cannot do this themselves, and Brexit will require a change in the law. See:

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

[MissAndry]

There seems to be a widespread misunderstanding of how democracy works in the UK where new laws and the repeal of existing statutes are made by Parliament, not the electorate.

So why have a referendum then?

I always thought democracy worked by having a vote, then everyone sticking to the result of that vote, even if it didn't personally suit them.

Edited July 3, 2016 by MissAndry

[vogie]

Why has some of the remain camp got green hair and rings through their noses, the same people that are keeping and wanting their leader Jeremy Corbyn to remain in power. By the way the question is rhetorical.

[Jip99]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

'Democracy' may have been informed/advised, but the decision to implement article 50 must still be made by Parliament. The only alternative is by royal prerogative which is most unlikely to occur. There seems to be a widespread misunderstanding of how democracy works in the UK where new laws and the repeal of existing statutes are made by Parliament, not the electorate. People elect members of Parliament to make decisions about what is and what is not in the statute book, but they cannot do this themselves, and Brexit will require a change in the law. See:

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

................... and the government has been given the mandate to trigger Article 50.

[NanLaew]

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

Referendum - a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Except that their hasn't been a direct decision, has there?

In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?

@ impulse

I've read many of your posts before, and have to say this last post was beneath you.

Have you forgotten your honour and integrity so easily?

"In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?"... when it's an ADVISORY from a voters REFERENDUM.

The actions on whether to exit or remain are as yet still undecided.

[MissAndry]

The word 'advisory' crept into the formula after the vote.

I would bet money, if the vote was to stay 'advisory' wouldn't have cropped up, and it would have been 'binding'.

[NanLaew]

The referendum produced a small majority based on lies and racist bigotry.

Hardly a glowing mandate.

We can only hope that PM Teresa May manages to slow down or halt this mad rush to oblivion.

My vote was based on neither bigotry nor lies.

I am thrilled to be one of the 53%+ English voters who achieved the magnificent LEAVE victory.

If Theresa May or any other wet Tory tries to dilute the benefits of leaving she will encounter a backlash.

At least Cameron has the balls to recognise that the will of the people needs to be implemented.

"At least Cameron has the balls to recognise that the will of the people needs to be implemented."... by someone who actually has balls.

[NanLaew]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

'Democracy' may have been informed/advised, but the decision to implement article 50 must still be made by Parliament. The only alternative is by royal prerogative which is most unlikely to occur. There seems to be a widespread misunderstanding of how democracy works in the UK where new laws and the repeal of existing statutes are made by Parliament, not the electorate. People elect members of Parliament to make decisions about what is and what is not in the statute book, but they cannot do this themselves, and Brexit will require a change in the law. See:

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

................... and the government has been given the mandate to trigger Article 50.

And if May or Leadsom inherit Cameron's mantle, they will happily disprove the theory that one needs balls to pull that trigger.

[dick dasterdly]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

If that were the case, Cameron would have carried out an opinion poll - not a referendum.

Miss Andry provided the correct definition of referendum "a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision".

Even Cameron is saying that it was a binding decision! There was never any implication that the referendum was actually just an opinion poll....

[Jip99]

Referendum - a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Except that their hasn't been a direct decision, has there?

In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?

@ impulse

I've read many of your posts before, and have to say this last post was beneath you.

Have you forgotten your honour and integrity so easily?

"In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?"... when it's an ADVISORY from a voters REFERENDUM.

The actions on whether to exit or remain are as yet still undecided.

David Cameron said otherwise.

....................and he doesn't lie, does he?

[bkkcanuck8]

Referendum - a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Except that their hasn't been a direct decision, has there?

In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?

@ impulse

I've read many of your posts before, and have to say this last post was beneath you.

Have you forgotten your honour and integrity so easily?

"In what way is 52% leave, not a direct decision?"... when it's an ADVISORY from a voters REFERENDUM.

The actions on whether to exit or remain are as yet still undecided.

I read the referendum act itself for this referendum, at no time did it state it was advisory - it is no more advisory than Parliament itself can be considered.

The people that sponsored the legislation (Cameron) himself has indicated the intent was to take let the people decide - and that it was not advisory.

Before the referendum there was no reference to it being advisory.

When a vote is called a referendum their is an implied meaning that the people are being asked to decide -- not to advise.

People who went to the voting booth did not think it was advisory, or 72% would never have bothered to go at all.

The only way it can be considered advisory is some warped interpretation and purposely warping the whole democratic process that the constitution is based on.... where most of what is constitutional or not is actually not even written - it is common law.

[RickBradford]

You have to choose between:

a ) The referendum is non-binding, and merely 'advisory'. Then there was little point in holding it in the first place, and certainly absolutely no point in holding a second one.

b ) The referendum is binding. Right, get on with it, and stop trying to subvert democracy.

The message from these protesters is clear, no matter how you dress it up. It is: The Leave voters are too stupid to be allowed to vote. Or, they can vote, but they must not be allowed to prevail. They are too old, too uneducated, too white. They must automatically be bigoted and racist. They are the "wrong" people.

That is "progressive" politics in action.

[brewsterbudgen]

There is a general acceptance with European leaders and with UK Politicians that the UK will leave the current entity that is the EU.

Fundamental changes to the EU will occur, what that will be and where it leads is anyone's guess.

The German government has been canvassing support for a senior political leader to gather views in European capitals on a new future for the continent in the wake of the Brexit vote, with the aim of completing the task before the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome next March.

EU heads of state, reeling from the UK’s vote to leave the European Union, want to be seen to be responding to the Eurosceptic mood, and some want a new “vision for Europe” document that distils the conflicting thinking.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/brexit-shock-calls-change-eu-european-union

In two years time there will almost certainly be another (advisory) referendum on the re-negotiated terms to remain in a "reformed" EU. Just watch this space!

[dick dasterdly]

There is a general acceptance with European leaders and with UK Politicians that the UK will leave the current entity that is the EU.

Fundamental changes to the EU will occur, what that will be and where it leads is anyone's guess.

The German government has been canvassing support for a senior political leader to gather views in European capitals on a new future for the continent in the wake of the Brexit vote, with the aim of completing the task before the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome next March.

EU heads of state, reeling from the UK’s vote to leave the European Union, want to be seen to be responding to the Eurosceptic mood, and some want a new “vision for Europe” document that distils the conflicting thinking.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/brexit-shock-calls-change-eu-european-union

In two years time there will almost certainly be another (advisory) referendum on the re-negotiated terms to remain in a "reformed" EU. Just watch this space!

In two years time there will almost certainly be another referendum (again, a referendum - not an opinion poll) on the re-negotiated terms.

I can agree with this (my slightly revised version of your post) - but it was never even implied that the REFERENDUM (sorry to shout) was just advisory or an opinion poll.

Even Cameron has (post vote) agreed that it was a referendum - not advisory - and that the will of the referendum is binding.

Edited July 3, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[impulse]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

If that were the case, Cameron would have carried out an opinion poll - not a referendum.

Miss Andry provided the correct definition of referendum "a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision".

Even Cameron is saying that it was a binding decision! There was never any implication that the referendum was actually just an opinion poll....

And yet, with the clear mandate from a 2% majority of the people (yes, that's sarcasm), Cameron won't pull the trigger. (Or can't pull the trigger?) Because neither a referendum nor a word from the PM is adequate in a representative democracy.

I'm not arguing the merits of the decision. It's the flawed process and false expectations- on both sides.

My belief? Cameron floated the "referendum" to put the issue to bed once and for all. Imagine his shock when his pollsters missed their forecast and it bit him in the ass.

[dick dasterdly]

Referendum held, results known, "democracy" has spoken, let's get on with it then.

You know the other name for a "non-binding referendum"?

Opinion poll.

If that were the case, Cameron would have carried out an opinion poll - not a referendum.

Miss Andry provided the correct definition of referendum "a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision".

Even Cameron is saying that it was a binding decision! There was never any implication that the referendum was actually just an opinion poll....

And yet, with the clear mandate from a 2% majority of the people (yes, that's sarcasm), Cameron won't pull the trigger. (Or can't pull the trigger?) Because neither a referendum nor a word from the PM is adequate in a representative democracy.

I'm not arguing the merits of the decision. It's the flawed process and false expectations- on both sides.

My belief? Cameron floated the "referendum" to put the issue to bed once and for all. Imagine his shock when his pollsters missed their forecast and it bit him in the ass.

So you are agreeing that the referendum was not an opinion poll - and that the electorate believed (and were not told otherwise) that the result of the referendum would be honoured?

Edited July 3, 2016 by dick dasterdly