Can you explain this about Thai way of thinking?

[Muzarella]

It is common knowledge that for Thai people losing face is a big problem, that most of the times, results in violence.

At the same time...

It is king of Thai tradition to gossip about everybody, with reasons or without, the truth or lies. Sometimes, just to create bad feelings in others...

Later...

Feeling surprise about the consequences....or just..... do not caring about.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Muzarella

[tifino]

one of the 4 letter words in the 3rd line might need amending, which is why I didn't show this response in a 'quote'

... but pay-back is a big unspoken thing in the culture

Edited July 13, 2016 by tifino

[daveAustin]

In one ear, out the other. Farangs don't count in all this face lark you know and they're allowed to take the piss out of us without recrimination, or so they think. Mai pen rai, let them talk, just do not associate with the type that likes to gossip inanely. I have some great Thai friends who wouldn't dream of it.

[manfredtillmann]

while i can't offer an explanation i fully agree with you.

[AlexRRR]

Thai's no different to any other nationality, "saving face" westerners dont like to get caught out as well, gossiping, gees my mum and sister use to do a good job on that.

[Briggsy]

If you apply the English expression, "can't be arsed" you will find the reason for around 95% of cultural traits.

The remaining 5% can be explained by the fact that form is so prioritised over substance that reputation is of such importance thus when it is under attack, the reaction is far stronger than in Western countries.

[benalibina]

Saving face....as this is alot more of an issue in Thai society than in western societies, it finally results in a lack of remorse. This is a consequence when people do not confront each other when wrongdoing has taken place. Thats how a narcissistic society is being created where the false image of "self" is of importance only.

Edited July 13, 2016 by benalibina

[Suradit69]

Considering that Thai Visa exists to a large extent for gossiping farang, many of whom are ranting about some incident where they felt they had lost face, why do you think it's more of a Thai problem? Even if you talk with another farang, even one you barely know, within a couple of minutes he'll be bashing away because of perceived matters of principle (i.e. loss of face).

As far as violence is concerned, in farang land we have road rage, school shootings, spousal violence, child abuse ... most of which stem from loss of face or low self-esteem. Farang quite often start wars to regain their honor ... i.e. recover from national loss of face.

Even in this thread someone is already whining about being talked about by Thais and feeling annoyed at the loss of face.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Suradit69

[Muzarella]

Saving face....as this is alot more of an issue in Thai society than in western societies, it finally results in a lack of remorse. This is a consequence when people do not confront each other when wrongdoing has taken place. Thats how a narcissistic society is being created where the false image of "self" is of importance only.

You are right. I noticed that Thai people are very concern about other people opinions of their selves. appearance, and critics, but they are judgmental about others, even without reasons. The problem is that they share those opinion with others in a way that looks like are true facts. Also, discretion is not an attribute in Thai culture. At the end the results are confrontations, confusion, misunderstandings.

Gossips are common in most cultures, but here go to extremes. Many foreigners do not notice it, just because do not understand Thai language...if not.... will be even more problems in Thai/Farang relationships.

Personally, it is very upsetting.

[dotpoom]

Don't see and contradiction there....Farangs have "face" too....only we call it "ego". and love to gossip also.

If you have any doubts about this try watching "Fox News" for an hour...(5 mins.)....(1 min).... or so.

[gandalf12]

Don't confuse me with facts just give me a good rumor (as the saying goes)

[SOTIRIOS]

....pathological.....

...that is the order of the day.....

...that's the way it works around here.....

[DLang]

Can you explain this about Thai way of thinking?

To understand, you first need to study the psychology of highly spoiled, 5 year old children.

[Agent Sumo]

Anyone would think that people in Western societies don't go to extraordinary lengths to avoid taking responsibility for their actions, to limit damage to their image or to seek retribution for imagined slights.

Much of English and - I'd imagine - American street culture runs on the concept of "respect".

Make a man look like an idiot in front of his "bird" or his "mates" and see what happens to you

How is that so different to "saving face"?

The answer is that it isn't - the serial complainers just don't understand the rules of the Asian version is all

Hate to say it but if it bothers you that much, <deleted> off back to the Utopian paradise from whence you came or stop hanging out at the arsse end of Thai society where you're more likely to run into people who'll put a dent in your skull for nothing.

[Shiver]

I don't have the answer. Since I first got here I've asked the question "for a nation so concerned about losing face, why do they try so hard to create situations for themselves that does exactly that?".

One clue might be in noticing where someone might get busy with something else or 'forget' some important detail in order to avoid a friend or boss from losing face - a kind of 'take one for the team' action, but there's got to be more to it than that.

[Berkshire]

Considering that Thai Visa exists to a large extent for gossiping farang, many of whom are ranting about some incident where they felt they had lost face, why do you think it's more of a Thai problem? Even if you talk with another farang, even one you barely know, within a couple of minutes he'll be bashing away because of perceived matters of principle (i.e. loss of face).

As far as violence is concerned, in farang land we have road rage, school shootings, spousal violence, child abuse ... most of which stem from loss of face or low self-esteem. Farang quite often start wars to regain their honor ... i.e. recover from national loss of face.

Even in this thread someone is already whining about being talked about by Thais and feeling annoyed at the loss of face.

Very true. Every time a farang starts talking about Thai "face," I cringe. Because you just know there's going to be some serious ignorance being displayed, if not downright stupidity. And as always, this thread does not disappoint. When a farang brings up an example of what they think is a "face" issue, they're almost always wrong. Nothing to do with face.

The most important aspect of this whole face business in Thailand is not about whether one loses face, it's more about not causing someone else to lose face. Allow me to illustrate.

As an American, I may want to tell the OP to his face that he's being incredibly ignorant, doesn't know what he's talking about, and should go educate himself before sticking his foot in his mouth. That's American direct communication.

But being in Thailand, I'd rather do it the Thai way. I would say, "Mr. Muzarella, you've clearly misunderstood. But that's ok. We all make mistakes. Have a nice day!"

That's the difference. My guess is the OP still won't get it.

[benalibina]

Considering that Thai Visa exists to a large extent for gossiping farang, many of whom are ranting about some incident where they felt they had lost face, why do you think it's more of a Thai problem? Even if you talk with another farang, even one you barely know, within a couple of minutes he'll be bashing away because of perceived matters of principle (i.e. loss of face).

As far as violence is concerned, in farang land we have road rage, school shootings, spousal violence, child abuse ... most of which stem from loss of face or low self-esteem. Farang quite often start wars to regain their honor ... i.e. recover from national loss of face.

Even in this thread someone is already whining about being talked about by Thais and feeling annoyed at the loss of face.

Very true. Every time a farang starts talking about Thai "face," I cringe. Because you just know there's going to be some serious ignorance being displayed, if not downright stupidity. And as always, this thread does not disappoint. When a farang brings up an example of what they think is a "face" issue, they're almost always wrong. Nothing to do with face.

The most important aspect of this whole face business in Thailand is not about whether one loses face, it's more about not causing someone else to lose face. Allow me to illustrate.

As an American, I may want to tell the OP to his face that he's being incredibly ignorant, doesn't know what he's talking about, and should go educate himself before sticking his foot in his mouth. That's American direct communication.

But being in Thailand, I'd rather do it the Thai way. I would say, "Mr. Muzarella, you've clearly misunderstood. But that's ok. We all make mistakes. Have a nice day!"

That's the difference. My guess is the OP still won't get it.

Hmmm...confirmation bias is never far away when one needs it. Prayut says often the same as you...but he is the leader of a junta. No criticisms allowed. One can wonder why.....

Have a nice day !

Edited July 14, 2016 by benalibina