Brit dies in Bangkok hospital after being stranded for 2 month while family struggled to pay bill

[Jonmarleesco]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

The NHS primarily treats sick people - and then gives them the bill...from time to time they don't pay, but at least they are alive. Many tourists in Britain owe their lives to the NHS.

"Elsewhere, staff are still trying to bill a mother who flew in to have triplets and racked up total costs of almost £320,000.

Figures show NHS hospitals are currently owed about £65million from foreign patients. This is thought to be an underestimate as most are never identified.

The details have only been revealed by using the Freedom of Information Act to put questions to all 160 NHS hospital trusts".

Because genuine tourists are not the problem; freebe medical tourists are, aided and abetted by successive governments, all of whom have seemed unable to grasp the concept of there being no such thing as something for nothing for these people.

[louse1953]

RIP . Don't blame Thailand for this.

Not blaming Thailand, per se. but the hospital won't even release her body until the bill is paid.

Now that is such a THAI way of thinking. YOu can't hold anyone else responsible for those bills except the person who incurred them. Her family should not have to pay the bills to get the body.

That's DISGUSTING but not Surprising considering the utter greed and total disregard for common decency here.

Disgusting it may be,but Thai hospitals have learn't not to trust people who say they will pay when they get home.Yeah,sure you will.Farangs have form here.

[hawker9000]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

I don't know... because it would have been the decent thing to do?

You're right. You don't know. Foreigners and their unpaid medical bills are a well documented problem in Thailand. This woman, with her KNOWN medical history, had NO business on overseas holiday without insurance or means, which, if difficult for her to get, gave her no right to dump her medical issues on Thailand. The hospital should notify the family that the remains will be held for some stated period of time, after which, if the bill is not paid, it will be handled as a donation to science. Heaven knows this country shoots itself in the foot in so many ways causing its own problems, but this is a foreign-imposed burden that Thailand shouldn't have to tolerate. Nor should those who ARE responsible enough to be taking the appropriate precautions for themselves be dunned for those who won't.

If "decency" means so much to you, then tell us please: how much have YOU donated so far to help this family?

Why should Thailand be on the hook for this any more than the lady's own countrymen?

[RandolphGB]

''But Kathryn’s sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics’ decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up.'' (27 June, http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-shields-family-begs-help-11533750)

What belief is that? The custom that says rip off tourist for every penny they can get?

[billd766]

''But Kathryn’s sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics’ decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up.'' (27 June, http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-shields-family-begs-help-11533750)

What belief is that? The custom that says rip off tourist for every penny they can get?

No it isn't.

It is the Buddhist belief that they should not deliberately cause death. It IS a problem in a lot of hospitals where the doctors and nurses have a strong belief in Buddhism.

(On a side note and nothing to do with the topic, it is also quite hard to find a veterinary who will put sick animals to sleep and out of pain. The similarity is that people and animals are both living things.)

[humqdpf]

Britain's NHS does it all the time. It an't known as the World's favourite health service for nothing.

There was a case fairly recently where a Nigerian woman having triplets (ectopic) had treatment worth £140,000 on the NHS, then swanned-off back to Lagos without paying a penny!

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

In this case, the patient has racked up 36,000 pounds without paying - therefore, what is the difference between the Nigerian case (which seems very high for an ectopic pregnancy) and this English woman other than the amount?

Given the higher costs in the UK, especially in private medicine, the cost of the Thai medical care would have been much higher in the UK anyway.

It is about time that the British government insisting on seeing an insurance policy or a bond before allowing its passport holders to go abroad outside the EU (soon that will include the EU too!).

[MiKT]

As it is such a contentious issue why does the Thai government not insist that all visitors have travel insurance as a condition of issuing a visa; as the British Government did for many years. Always had to show the insurance at the UK Embassy (plus return tickets) before they would issue a visa, but it seems to be laxer now. However not being able to claim on the National Health service is still a condition of having a visa.

I the past UK doctors have insisted on seeing the insurance before allowing treatment.

[paulbj2]

It may seem a huge sum of money to us mere mortals living on a pension but for an organisation like the NHS whose budget for 2015/16 is £116.4 billion (that's £116,400,000,000) £65 million is a drop in the ocean; 0.0558% of the annual budget, in fact

The simple answer to this and a range of other issues in the benighted UK is a properly implemented Identity database. The Blair/Brown labour government started down this road at a cost of £ billions and even reached the stage of issuing the first few ID cards to, I think, airport staff. It became a very unpopular idea when the ship of fools that was the Gordon Brown premiership decided that they would be obligatory and that they would cost £50. Obligatory, no problem; but £50 BIG problem. If only they had just bitten the bullet and said they would be free! Unsurprisingly, the incoming Tory government of David Cameron cancelled the nearly completed project at a cost of £ billions to the taxpayer.

If a system of photo ID cards were implemented, a persons entitlement to NHS treatment could be checked with the card (via the central database that sits behind any such system) and anyone without a card would automatically be entitled to emergency treatment only.

It presents zero technical challenge to do this along with 100s of other useful services. Moving house: then change your address on the ID card database and everyone who sends you a bill is automatically updated without you having to contact every damned one of them. Most countries in Europe already have a system like this and they work really well. Why not the British!

£65 million, but that's the ones they have billed...

My guess is that 65m could be many times that, that money could be used by the the NHS to help NI contributors abroad.

If a system of photo ID cards were implemented, a persons entitlement to NHS treatment could be checked with the card (via the central database that sits behind any such system) and anyone without a card would automatically be entitled to emergency treatment only.

We do not need cards any more, bio-metrics on a national database, photo up on a screen or fingerprint scanner.

All very well, but other countries that have ID cards allow their use in place of a passport (inside the EU, for example). Having such a database is one thing, but allowing other countries to access it for ID purposes is a very different matter. The technology exists, for sure, but it might a technological leap too far for the average person in the street. Start off with a plastic card with a photo on it and when folk are used to that, ramp up the sophistication if people will accept it without getting too paranoid.

Their entitlement to healthcare and indeed access to their healthcare records could be controlled by the card, their driving licence details, details of their passport(if any), their university transcript along with other official qualifications, their NI contribution records and so on. The list is endless.

[Bluespunk]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

[Jip99]

Of course travel insurance is sensible, but as many posts have pointed out, it is not always available due to age, length of time abroad, or will not cover pre-existing conditions!

So, would you take on a 13,000 mile round trip holiday to South East Asia if you could not get travel insurance.

I don't think so - anyone with half a brain would not travel, unless they were prepared to take the risk upon themselves.

R. I. P. the deceased.

[fabphil]

If u cant afford Travel Insurance u cant afford to travel......happens all the time people get injured or sick on holidays then expect other people to bail them out...

[Bluespunk]

Looks like the sun has joined the mirror in highlighting what goes on here.

I'd be careful, heard a BBC morning presenter say they are off to thailand for a holiday next week. No knowing what they'll say if they have a bad experience.

[Jip99]

As it is such a contentious issue why does the Thai government not insist that all visitors have travel insurance as a condition of issuing a visa; as the British Government did for many years. Always had to show the insurance at the UK Embassy (plus return tickets) before they would issue a visa, but it seems to be laxer now. However not being able to claim on the National Health service is still a condition of having a visa.

I the past UK doctors have insisted on seeing the insurance before allowing treatment.

A Schengen visa requires EUR 30,000 of cover to include repatriation.

[Billy The Kid]

Very similar story to an Irish man few years ago , fell 7 floors from the condo in bkk while trying to get n from his neighbour above his room because he lost his key . In the coma in Bkk hospital and on life support , he had no travel insurance , hospital demand 100,000 , his family raised 30,000 from their savings and loans , got another 70,000 from donations and raising funds from several different events . Brought him to Dublin Hospital ( still in coma ) , died a week later . His family are suffering with their bank balance headache , all over a 75 travel insurance that he won't pay .

[sambum]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

When I was a "tourist" travelling here on holiday every year, I always had travel insurance. However, now that I am retired here, and in my 70's I find that insurance is either unavailable or horrendously expensive. My only option is to put a bit of money to one side in case of a medical emergency, and hope that it will be enough to cover the costs, but the prices that some hospitals charge make me realise that it may not be enough!

[MiKT]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

What happens when "common human decency" conflicts with "common sense and sheer practicality" ?

No country can (or should) have to pay the medical bills for every visitor who becomes sick on holiday.

They don't do it in Europe, why should a relatively poor country like Thailand have to?

[schvonsky1]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

well nowadays they will cover you as long as you declare what you have they will then do a medical screening and tell you if you are good to go you pay the extra but worth it it will be interesting to know what was wrong with the women however a sad story RIP

[sambum]

''But Kathryn’s sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics’ decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up.'' (27 June, http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-shields-family-begs-help-11533750)

What belief is that? The custom that says rip off tourist for every penny they can get?

No it isn't.

It is the Buddhist belief that they should not deliberately cause death. It IS a problem in a lot of hospitals where the doctors and nurses have a strong belief in Buddhism.

(On a side note and nothing to do with the topic, it is also quite hard to find a veterinary who will put sick animals to sleep and out of pain. The similarity is that people and animals are both living things.)

So, being cynical, it's nothing to do with the fact that the longer that the person/animal is kept alive, the more money they are going to make out of it?

[Enoon]

''But Kathryn’s sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics’ decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up.'' (27 June, http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-shields-family-begs-help-11533750)

What belief is that? The custom that says rip off tourist for every penny they can get?

No it isn't.

It is the Buddhist belief that they should not deliberately cause death. It IS a problem in a lot of hospitals where the doctors and nurses have a strong belief in Buddhism.

(On a side note and nothing to do with the topic, it is also quite hard to find a veterinary who will put sick animals to sleep and out of pain. The similarity is that people and animals are both living things.)

So, being cynical, it's nothing to do with the fact that the longer that the person/animal is kept alive, the more money they are going to make out of it?

No.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Enoon

[denkiblue555]

Condolences to the family, it must be a difficult time.

But this whole insurance discussion is funny, I mean there is no 'magic insurance' that will manage any situation a person could get themselves into.

I think at least one poster has pointed out that it seems there is no mention in the article of the fact that the patient did not have insurance....... we just don't know.

So, as much as everyone wants to bang on about having insurance, from what I have learnt it's barely worth the paper it is written on:

1. Most travel insurance companies are a rort and their default first action is to 'decline' a claim, any claim that is

2. Most travel insurance companies cover very little when a person has consumed alcohol - I can only assume riding on vehicles which are not fit for the road/ocean etc., would also be similar

3. Insurance companies are there to make $$$$$ not help people in their time of need - don't buy into all that marketing rubbish.

Insurance sounds great in principal, but in reality for the nominal charge they usually involve, I would be very surprised if they would ever cover such a large cost as in the OP. I would always recommend having travel insurance, but I would never be relying on it to get me out of trouble.....it's just an extra sort of tax i guess.

Edited July 20, 2016 by denkiblue555

[Ludo55]

You have to have a Visa so why not make Insurance compulsory.

You don't need a Visa for less than 30 days

[sambum]

My Post replied $$$$$$

Still on that bar stool??

To bad these peasants couldn't

Get £36K together.

You are arrogant and uncaring, and hope that the Mods take notice of such an offensive post.

Who are you to call people "peasants" because they can't get 36 "grand" together?. What do you know of their domestic situation? Not everyone is in a position to acquire such a sum at the drop of a hat. And TOO bad you didn't learn English grammar when you were having your sheltered upbringing away from the "peasants"of this world

Edited July 20, 2016 by sambum

[bkkcanuck8]

''But Kathryn’s sister Elizabeth Phillips said the Thai medics’ decision to keep her sibling alive, due to their customs and beliefs, has lead to huge medical bills being racked up.'' (27 June, [/size]http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/north-shields-family-begs-help-11533750)

What belief is that? The custom that says rip off tourist for every penny they can get?

That contradicts there own crowdsourcing fundraising and raises questions about the honesty of the "sisters".

It is the partner who likely proved he had the funds to pay for hospital bills at the beginning - Bangkok Hospital (I believe that is the one) is not a very trusting hospital typically -- they want proof upfront. If not, I could easily see them shunting the patient over to a public hospital almost immediately.

Basically it was the hospital threatening to remove her from the machines that keep her alive and move her out.

We have set up this page in desperation to try and raise money for our dear sister, Kathryn Williamson. We were contacted by the British Embassy in Thailand to inform us that she is in a coma and relying on life support machines.

Weeks have passed with no improvement. The medical bills have piled up, which we are unable to cover, plus to get her home with all the expensive machinery keeping her alive will cost a ridiculous amount.

It's heart breaking that Kathryn is there alone as her partner has had to return to the UK as his visa ran out. We have tried every charity possible to gain funds but sadly no help is available.

Without these funds she will not be returned home to us and will be moved to a hospice without medical support, resulting in her dying alone.

Any donation no matter how small would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Elizabeth and Tracey

x

Edited July 20, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[dunroaming]

"Don't blame Thailand for this". Well obviously you don't blame a country over every issue. The compassionate thing to do would have been for the hospital to release the patient on a signed legal agreement that the money would be paid over a period of time. It may be that the money wasn't paid or only part of it and the hospital ended up losing some of it, however where is the incentive now to pay anything? Seems to me that everyone loses through a lack of common sense.

[bkkcanuck8]

"Don't blame Thailand for this". Well obviously you don't blame a country over every issue. The compassionate thing to do would have been for the hospital to release the patient on a signed legal agreement that the money would be paid over a period of time. It may be that the money wasn't paid or only part of it and the hospital ended up losing some of it, however where is the incentive now to pay anything? Seems to me that everyone loses through a lack of common sense.

Release the patient after death or before? The hospital was threatening to move them over to palliative care (hospice).... it is the family that did not want that. After the patient are dead if they are not in Thailand -- the contract is not worth the paper it is written on.

[Billy The Kid]

Condolences to the family, it must be a difficult time.

But this whole insurance discussion is funny, I mean there is no 'magic insurance' that will manage any situation a person could get themselves into.

I think at least one poster has pointed out that it seems there is no mention in the article of the fact that the patient did not have insurance....... we just don't know.

So, as much as everyone wants to bang on about having insurance, from what I have learnt it's barely worth the paper it is written on:

1. Most travel insurance companies are a rort and their default first action is to 'decline' a claim, any claim that is

2. Most travel insurance companies cover very little when a person has consumed alcohol - I can only assume riding on vehicles which are not fit for the road/ocean etc., would also be similar

3. Insurance companies are there to make $$$$$ not help people in their time of need - don't buy into all that marketing rubbish.

Insurance sounds great in principal, but in reality for the nominal charge they usually involve, I would be very surprised if they would ever cover such a large cost as in the OP. I would always recommend having travel insurance, but I would never be relying on it to get me out of trouble.....it's just an extra sort of tax i guess.

Very interesting post , thanks .. What company would you recommend ? I was with Multitrip.com for past ten years but never claimed any .. I was in hospital once to have X-ray and a sling for my arm . Fractured my elbow by a slip on the wet shinning floor . Only cost me 5,000 bt , the excess of the claim is 5,000 bt so I could not claim anyway . Reading at your post had made me aware of the corrupt companies who only interested in taking our money . Must check very clearly with a small print of the documents of travel insurance .

[Bluespunk]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

What happens when "common human decency" conflicts with "common sense and sheer practicality" ?

No country can (or should) have to pay the medical bills for every visitor who becomes sick on holiday.

They don't do it in Europe, why should a relatively poor country like Thailand have to?

Why?

Common human decency.

[Brigante7]

dcnx, on 20 Jul 2016 - 06:13, said:

Pattaya28, on 20 Jul 2016 - 04:57, said:

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Don't know her situation but most insurance doesn't cover existing conditions. Many people get the shaft due to this.

Kathryn had been ill for a long time and suffers from arthritis,

You don't die from arthritis, if she had a pre existing serious conditions the sister would have said so,

where were the UK embassy in this story and they did to help the situation?

I'm sure if this lady was well connected she would have alive today, sadly, she was a no body

just enough not to really try harder or donate money for the repatriating back to the UK,

This woman could have been saved easily, .... Shame on the UK people and government......

<deleted>, the British embassy in BKK are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Brigante7

Edited July 20, 2016 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[bkkcanuck8]

Maybe this be a lesson to people trying to save a few ££££'s by not having travel insurance.

Why should Thailand have to "foot this bill" ?

Common human decency?

What happens when "common human decency" conflicts with "common sense and sheer practicality" ?

No country can (or should) have to pay the medical bills for every visitor who becomes sick on holiday.

They don't do it in Europe, why should a relatively poor country like Thailand have to?

Why?

Common human decency.

With all the posters on here that believe that paying the bill for the family or subsidizing them is common human decency..... I would expect the crowdsourcing site to be swimming in money because of their donations...

[Bluespunk]

Got a link?

Happy to donate.

PM it to me if not allowed to put on forum.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Bluespunk