Photos of US Embassy Banned in Bangkok?

[pearcerf]

Today I was walking down Wireless road to exercise at Lumphini Park, and noticed the US Embassy signage out front. Thought it would be a good photo op as I am a retired American who has lived here for 3 years. After snapping a photo a security guard for the Embassy rushed over to me and ordered me to delete the photo. <deleted>! Is there anybody out there who works or has worked for the US Embassy that can shed light on this?

[ClutchClark]

Lumpini is asuch a great Park...I never miss a day going there for exercise.

I would just hazard a guess that photos are discouraged since they could be used to plan an attack.

Seems like a good precaution in this day & age.

[evadgib]

Since when has their jurisdiction included the street? How would they censure passing dashcams?

[taxout]

They didn't rush out and stop the Google Streetview van.

[Colabamumbai]

American paranoia. Google is exempt.

[ClutchClark]

They didn't rush out and stop the Google Streetview van.

The "geography" and physical location is not the information that would have been gathered for intel since it is well documented.

The presence of, the number and the location od security personnel on a given time of day would be the useful intel gathered. Not limited to types of weapons, communication devices, the method used to allow vehicles through the double gates, method of searching under vehicles entering premises, etc..

But nice try.

[RBOP]

There are many threads on this subject. In some countries you would have been arrested on the spot. Did the security guard get your ID, passport #, take any info from you to identify who you are? If not then its poor security.

[Pib]

Is an Embassy on Foreign Soil the Sovereign Territory of the Host Country or the Embassy’s Country?

http://www.pathtoforeignservice.com/is-an-embassy-on-foreign-soil-the-sovereign-territory-of-the-host-country-or-the-embassys-country/

The best place to find answers to the above stories, and the question overall, is with theVienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961.

Within this convention, Articles 21-25 have to do with embassies, though more specifically diplomatic missions as a whole.

Article 21
1. The receiving State shall either facilitate the acquisition on its territory, in accordance with its laws, by the sending State of premises necessary for its mission or assist the latter in obtaining accommodation in some other way.
2. It shall also, where necessary, assist missions in obtaining suitable accommodation for their members.

Article 22
1. The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission.

2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the mission or impairment of its dignity.

3. The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.

Article 23
1. The sending State and the head of the mission shall be exempt from all national, regional or municipal dues and taxes in respect of the premises of the mission, whether owned or leased, other than such as represent payment for specific services rendered.

2. The exemption from taxation referred to in this article shall not apply to such dues and taxes payable under the law of the receiving State by persons contracting with the sending State or the head of the mission.

Article 24
The archives and documents of the mission shall be inviolable at any time and wherever they may be.

Article 25
The receiving State shall accord full facilities for the performance of the functions of the mission.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Pib

[steveyinasia]

I am not sure of the laws surrounding photography in public places are in Thailand however in the US, UK, it is not illegal to take photos of a building, including those of interest, from areas which are considered public access. Plenty of YouTube videos of photographers being challenged by ill-informed security personnel.

[Suradit69]

Since when has their jurisdiction included the street? How would they censure passing dashcams?

Censure? One doesn't normally censure inanimate objects.

In this day and age it seems fairly reasonable to wonder why someone would want to photograph an embassy. Even many shops, malls, banks, airports etc prohibit photos being taken. Whether or not it is illegal to do so, if the security guard had called the police about someone acting suspiciously, the O/P would have probably spent an uncomfortable day being interrogated. Given the heightened concerns about terrorism world-wide and the apparent inadequate security precautions in places like France and Belgium, it's understandable.

Had someone been taking photos and soon after there was some incident, you know people would be howling about CCTV shots of someone taking photos and no one doing anything about it.

As usual, if someone is proactive there are complaints about over-reacting and if nothing is done there are complaints about incompetent policing and lazy security.

[ClutchClark]

I am not sure of the laws surrounding photography in public places are in Thailand however in the US, UK, it is not illegal to take photos of a building, including those of interest, from areas which are considered public access. Plenty of YouTube videos of photographers being challenged by ill-informed security personnel.

Are there many US Embassies in the US? ;-)

[Carib]

There are many threads on this subject. In some countries you would have been arrested on the spot. Did the security guard get your ID, passport #, take any info from you to identify who you are? If not then its poor security.

Yeah right, in the Bkk streets one would have to identify oneself to an embassy guard. Forget it.

[tifino]

I am not sure of the laws surrounding photography in public places are in Thailand however in the US, UK, it is not illegal to take photos of a building, including those of interest, from areas which are considered public access. Plenty of YouTube videos of photographers being challenged by ill-informed security personnel.

Are there many US Embassies in the US? ;-)

well, the US is the Receiving State, of many International Embassies in the US

[Pib]

Since when has their jurisdiction included the street? How would they censure passing dashcams?

They can't. All they can do is control what they can....like people standing in front of the embassy taking pictures. You do what you can security-wise.

[tifino]

No different as in Singapore too... I got out of the taxi, on the main road, at least 400 metres from the front gates of Tengah Airbase.

I had the camera in my hand getting out the taxi.

I put camera up to eye, as the scene of the front outside the base was picturesque.

Guard ran down all the way from the pillbox to stop at me.

somehow I managed to stop my camera in-toto being confiscated

[maoro2013]

Seems like total BS to me.

It would be so simple to gather surveillance info without obviously taking a photo.

Unbelievablw paranoia.

[DrDave]

Just out of curiosity, if push came to shove and a confrontation developed between a security guard and a private person, what law would be broken by that person standing on a public street taking a photograph of a building?

[Srikcir]

They didn't rush out and stop the Google Streetview van.

The "geography" and physical location is not the information that would have been gathered for intel since it is well documented.

The presence of, the number and the location od security personnel on a given time of day would be the useful intel gathered. Not limited to types of weapons, communication devices, the method used to allow vehicles through the double gates, method of searching under vehicles entering premises, etc..

But nice try.

Information that can be gotten by sitting on the steps or in the cafe across the street.

[tifino]

They didn't rush out and stop the Google Streetview van.

The "geography" and physical location is not the information that would have been gathered for intel since it is well documented.

The presence of, the number and the location od security personnel on a given time of day would be the useful intel gathered. Not limited to types of weapons, communication devices, the method used to allow vehicles through the double gates, method of searching under vehicles entering premises, etc..

But nice try.

Information that can be gotten by sitting on the steps or in the cafe across the street.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/69802c2f4a12a886944c563b64da9b04/tumblr_navyysEumm1rt28efo1_500.gif

[mike324]

Just out of curiosity, if push came to shove and a confrontation developed between a security guard and a private person, what law would be broken by that person standing on a public street taking a photograph of a building?

they will probably come up with a fake charge such as spying / security related if they really want to charge you...and being its US embasy vs you, you will loose no matter what

[klauskunkel]

I had a similar experience on Sathorn Rd outside I believe the Australian embassy. Camera raised to eye to take picture of mural, two guards came running to interdict... "Can not Mr., can not take photo."

My reply: "Do you understand the concept of a zoom lens? I could go across the street and achieve the same shot...What could you do?"

Thought processing - silence

Another attempt: "If you don't want people to take a picture, then you should not decorate the wall so nicely. Just keep it grey and boring and whoever still takes a picture: that's a terrorist. Makes your job easier."

More silence - thinking about food.

Last attempt: "What about people with smart phone. You going to stop them using phone while walking on this side walk? Phone has camera, you know?"

Profound, uncomfortable silence - not thinking about food anymore.

But, it's not the guards who make nonsensical policy, it's the people in offices who design policy usually without any input from those having to enforce.

[rodknock]

they could always use article 44 as a reason.

[mtls2005]

The U.S. Embassy and the Ambassador have a presence on social media; you could ask there.

Not sure what the rules, laws etc. are but easy to understand security concerns these days.

[TSF]

I was recently in Saigon and went to look at the former US Embassy (now the US Consulate) I talked with the guard out front and told him I wanted to have my photo taken standing outside as it's such a historical site. He said no photos were allowed. I then asked if I walked across the road and had my photo taken with the building in the background would that be OK. He said it would. We walked across the road and my wife took 3-4 photos of me, but she told me while she was taking the photos the guard acorss the road was waving for her to stop. We walked away with no incident.

[colinneil]

Looking for somebody to blame for all the paranoia about photos outside sensitive buildings.

Blame the crazy jihadi terrorists.

[tifino]

I was recently in Saigon and went to look at the former US Embassy (now the US Consulate) I talked with the guard out front and told him I wanted to have my photo taken standing outside as it's such a historical site. He said no photos were allowed. I then asked if I walked across the road and had my photo taken with the building in the background would that be OK. He said it would. We walked across the road and my wife took 3-4 photos of me, but she told me while she was taking the photos the guard acorss the road was waving for her to stop. We walked away with no incident.

...waving the Tanks away didn't work either - and THAT was in peacetime too

[dazzz]

No need to take photos . Just google photos of the us embassy in bangkok and you will see dozens of of photos

[evadgib]

Is an Embassy on Foreign Soil the Sovereign Territory of the Host Country or the Embassy’s Country?

http://www.pathtoforeignservice.com/is-an-embassy-on-foreign-soil-the-sovereign-territory-of-the-host-country-or-the-embassys-country/

No relevance whatsoever to the thread.

[Suradit69]

I had a similar experience on Sathorn Rd outside I believe the Australian embassy. Camera raised to eye to take picture of mural, two guards came running to interdict... "Can not Mr., can not take photo."

My reply: "Do you understand the concept of a zoom lens? I could go across the street and achieve the same shot...What could you do?"

Thought processing - silence

Another attempt: "If you don't want people to take a picture, then you should not decorate the wall so nicely. Just keep it grey and boring and whoever still takes a picture: that's a terrorist. Makes your job easier."

More silence - thinking about food.

Last attempt: "What about people with smart phone. You going to stop them using phone while walking on this side walk? Phone has camera, you know?"

Profound, uncomfortable silence - not thinking about food anymore.

But, it's not the guards who make nonsensical policy, it's the people in offices who design policy usually without any input from those having to enforce.

"Thought processing - silence."

"More silence - thinking about food."

"Profound, uncomfortable silence - not thinking about food anymore."

Surely someone with your vivid imagination could come up some better guesses as to what they were thinking about while listening to one more know-it-all farang who apparently thought he was educating the natives from astride his unassailable logic ... always assuming the encounter wasn't embellished beyond recognition after numerous performances for friends, family and startled strangers.

[ClutchClark]

I had a similar experience on Sathorn Rd outside I believe the Australian embassy. Camera raised to eye to take picture of mural, two guards came running to interdict... "Can not Mr., can not take photo."

My reply: "Do you understand the concept of a zoom lens? I could go across the street and achieve the same shot...What could you do?"

Thought processing - silence

Another attempt: "If you don't want people to take a picture, then you should not decorate the wall so nicely. Just keep it grey and boring and whoever still takes a picture: that's a terrorist. Makes your job easier."

More silence - thinking about food.

Last attempt: "What about people with smart phone. You going to stop them using phone while walking on this side walk? Phone has camera, you know?"

Profound, uncomfortable silence - not thinking about food anymore.

But, it's not the guards who make nonsensical policy, it's the people in offices who design policy usually without any input from those having to enforce.

"Thought processing - silence."

"More silence - thinking about food."

"Profound, uncomfortable silence - not thinking about food anymore."

Surely someone with your vivid imagination could come up some better guesses as to what they were thinking about while listening to one more know-it-all farang who apparently thought he was educating the natives from astride his unassailable logic ... always assuming the encounter wasn't embellished beyond recognition after numerous performances for friends, family and startled strangers.

Beautiful.

Yeah nothing like a know-it-all farang harassing some low paid security guards who are just trying to do their job and be polite at the same time.

Sounds like the same kind of guy who screams at the McDonalds cashier because of the trans fat in his burger.