Yingluck pleads for moral support when she appears in court on Friday

[thaiguzzi]

She's still looking great...

[Dexlowe]

This cannot be described as simply a bad idea or a bad government policy. This was criminal misuse of government funds.

 

The bottom line is that she was warned officially by her bureaucracy and members of the legislature (and by a groundswell of public opinion) that there were serious problems with the scheme, and that it should be halted until it could be sorted out. She did nothing, ergo criminal behavior involving misuse of government funds.

 

PS: Oooh, that scabby message - a typical Shinawatra ploy - a carefully crafted and weepy, woe-is-me type missive designed to wring the sympathy vote. Man, these people are sick propagandists - and very shallow.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

!00 -! she gets away with it,any takers?

[SABloke]

17 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

!00 -! she gets away with it,any takers?

 

I thinks the odds are closer to ?$$ - ? 

[The Deerhunter]

6 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

She could try  '  only obeying orders  ' as a defence.

Didn't work for Adolf Eichmann!!

[retarius]

She hasn't got the money so she will declare bankruptcy. She isn't married and I don't think her brother is going to stump up the money. If she has any sense at all, or anyone in the family has any business sense, then she will own almost nothing right now. So, overall a stupid waste of time and money by the government aimed at destroying the Shinawatra clan that I don't think it will work.

[elgordo38]

19 hours ago, SpoliaOpima said:

I have little sympathy for Yingluck in this case. But at least she has the guts to stand trial, unlike her older brother.

Yes she had the guts to stay and yes she is guilty of some crimes but she will be prosecuted never the less. Politicians world wide are of guilty of crimes against humanity but there is little we wee folk can do. The deck is loaded against her she is in the eye of the tiger. As I type I am sure the court is weighing just how far and how hard to go against her. To heavy will only bring about more bitterness to easy and they will look like weak kneed. They also want to set her up as an example of what will happen to future politicians should they step out of line. 

[NongKhaiKid]

31 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Didn't work for Adolf Eichmann!!

He wasn't tried in Thailand though !    

[waitforusalso]

1 hour ago, Dexlowe said:

This cannot be described as simply a bad idea or a bad government policy. This was criminal misuse of government funds.

 

The bottom line is that she was warned officially by her bureaucracy and members of the legislature (and by a groundswell of public opinion) that there were serious problems with the scheme, and that it should be halted until it could be sorted out. She did nothing, ergo criminal behavior involving misuse of government funds.

 

PS: Oooh, that scabby message - a typical Shinawatra ploy - a carefully crafted and weepy, woe-is-me type missive designed to wring the sympathy vote. Man, these people are sick propagandists - and very shallow.

Just look at governments around the world to see the scathing criticism of government policies from the opposition parties. The MPs from other parties are constantly 'warning' of the failure of government policies, as the Dems did with the RPS. According to the Republicans, Obama is the worst president in history. Apparently, the Affordable Health Care Act is, as with the RPS, a huge waste of public funds. That doesn't mean that the government of the time necessarily has to take heed of such 'warnings', and it certainly doesn't make them liable, if at a later date that very opposition gets into power and wants to eliminate the previous government from the political landscape for their own benefit.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I'm with you babe  

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, waitforusalso said:

Just look at governments around the world to see the scathing criticism of government policies from the opposition parties. The MPs from other parties are constantly 'warning' of the failure of government policies, as the Dems did with the RPS. According to the Republicans, Obama is the worst president in history. Apparently, the Affordable Health Care Act is, as with the RPS, a huge waste of public funds. That doesn't mean that the government of the time necessarily has to take heed of such 'warnings', and it certainly doesn't make them liable, if at a later date that very opposition gets into power and wants to eliminate the previous government from the political landscape for their own benefit.

 

Your comments about other countries are just not relevant. There is no 'event' or whatever in any other country that aligns to the 'rice scam'.  As just mentioned by another poster: " This was criminal misuse of government funds." I would say taxpayers funds rather than government funds, and as stated a million times: 'she didn't attend even one meeting, there were fake deals raking in billions for dishonest ministerial officials, there was criminal dereliction of duty, and more more more. Give over, please.

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

She could try  '  only obeying orders  ' as a defence.

Didn't work for Adolf Eichmann!!

Nongkhai kid noted that he was not tried in Thailand which is true but I wonder if there will be any more sympathy for that defense under the current administration here than Eichmann got in Israel.  ( I am having problems getting my reply under the right post here.)

[waitforusalso]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

Your comments about other countries are just not relevant. There is no 'event' or whatever in any other country that aligns to the 'rice scam'.  As just mentioned by another poster: " This was criminal misuse of government funds." I would say taxpayers funds rather than government funds, and as stated a million times: 'she didn't attend even one meeting, there were fake deals raking in billions for dishonest ministerial officials, there was criminal dereliction of duty, and more more more. Give over, please.

I guess you are not familiar with governments in the developing world. Corruption is rife. Government misuse of funds, embezzlement, cronyism, ... are endemic throughout the 3rd world. These problems were a feature of Thai governments well before the TRT or PTP administrations. 

I say, wholehearted prosecute those officials who you can prove were directly involved in the illegal activities, for example the alleged false G2G contracts, but to prosecute Yingluck for negligence is simply a military/yellow plan to rid the political landscape of their nemesis. Was there a requirement for the amount of meetings YL had to attend? Is a PM allowed to delegate the responsibility for their various responsibilities? Where exactly is the line between acceptable & criminal levels of negligence? The RPS is but the Hopewell project, Thai Khem Kaeng, GT200 or futsal arenas weren't? 

Give over, please.

[Ricardo]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

 

Here are three of your comments. So Ricardo, looking at them you will agree that the regime in power is ignoring the ample warnings from the world and so deserves to face the music after it leaves. Glad to see you are against it and its abuse.

 

As for the' threats' to farmers you suggested please post a link. Everyone here has connections to farmers. Please let us hear the threats they faced. I remember when the regime took over it sent soldiers with weapons drawn onto the pro-government stage forcing Yingluck's governments supporters, mostly who were farmers, to flee. There are videos of that. And after that soldiers went through rural farming villages across the northeast looking for those who would resist. The people in those villages weren't waving flags cheering. They were in fear. My brother in law thought they were taking people away killing them in the forests as they did in the past.

 

You can talk about farmers changing their opinions but there is any truth to that you certainly have to consider that this regime has threatened the people who resist it and its propaganda publicly with detentions and jailings. There is no freedom to speak in support of the past government in Thailand now.

 

Yes, every government deserves to be judged on its record, no exceptions. Which is why I had posted  "A PM (and I do include the current one in this) is expected to act in the best interests of the country ", but this thread is about Yingluck & the PTP-government.

 

Farmers' protests, of which you claimed " The people protesting weren't farmers, don't you know? ", please look at :-

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-protest-idUSBREA1904Y20140210

 

or at  http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-thai-rice-farmers-subsidy-stockpiling-government-529342

 

or http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Unpaid-rice-farmers-allege-intimidation-as-protest-30225548.html

 

So now you do know, if you didn't already, that you were mistaken in your claim.

 

I understand that you'd like to drag this thread off-topic, to make it more about the junta or current freedom-of-speech (or the lack of it), but it's supposed to be about Yingluck asking for moral support as her next appointment in court approaches.

 

There are other threads where you can, within the limits set by forum-rules, discuss events during & after the military takeover.

[scorecard]

29 minutes ago, waitforusalso said:

I guess you are not familiar with governments in the developing world. Corruption is rife. Government misuse of funds, embezzlement, cronyism, ... are endemic throughout the 3rd world. These problems were a feature of Thai governments well before the TRT or PTP administrations. 

I say, wholehearted prosecute those officials who you can prove were directly involved in the illegal activities, for example the alleged false G2G contracts, but to prosecute Yingluck for negligence is simply a military/yellow plan to rid the political landscape of their nemesis. Was there a requirement for the amount of meetings YL had to attend? Is a PM allowed to delegate the responsibility for their various responsibilities? Where exactly is the line between acceptable & criminal levels of negligence? The RPS is but the Hopewell project, Thai Khem Kaeng, GT200 or futsal arenas weren't? 

Give over, please.

 

Yawn...

Already mentioned in at least 100 posts, she is nor charged with corruption, she is charges with dereliction of duty. And many many posts outline good reasons IMHO and in the opinion of the many posters why she should be charged with dereliction of duty.

Again, yawn...

Edited August 4, 2016 by scorecard

[scorecard]

20 hours ago, Alive said:

Yes scorecard. Corruption comes from the very very top indeed. When the day comes which ends privileges and the truth isn't illegal to talk about there's a chance for change. The most powerful who own the courts are not the shins. Sorry if that bothers some here but it's totally true. The shins are the lesser of evils here. The real slime here is unbeaten and above the law and governments. If you want the truth, that's what we are really talking about.

 

I'm not going to disagree with some points in your theme, but that doesn't change the fact that this case is a about massive, repeat massive dereliction of duty.   I hope your not suggesting that the massive dereliction of duty should just be ignored.

 

I repeat again, for the 1,000th time, IMHO all alleged wrongdoers should be investigated and if found guilty should received appropriate punishment regardless of colour or whatever.

[Alive]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

 

Yes, every government deserves to be judged on its record, no exceptions. Which is why I had posted  "A PM (and I do include the current one in this) is expected to act in the best interests of the country ", but this thread is about Yingluck & the PTP-government.

 

Farmers' protests, of which you claimed " The people protesting weren't farmers, don't you know? ", please look at :-

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-protest-idUSBREA1904Y20140210

 

or at  http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-thai-rice-farmers-subsidy-stockpiling-government-529342

 

or http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Unpaid-rice-farmers-allege-intimidation-as-protest-30225548.html

 

So now you do know, if you didn't already, that you were mistaken in your claim.

 

I understand that you'd like to drag this thread off-topic, to make it more about the junta or current freedom-of-speech (or the lack of it), but it's supposed to be about Yingluck asking for moral support as her next appointment in court approaches.

 

There are other threads where you can, within the limits set by forum-rules, discuss events during & after the military takeover.

 

I won't deny the stories you have posted. There were people that had problems obviously but the vast majority got paid and never complained or were against Yingluck. The protestors in BKK were BBK people mostly and people form the south, many rubber farmers who Prayuth paid off with subsidies once he got into office.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/754372/help-for-farmers-rubber-13-billion-baht-rice-us-1-billion

 

During the end of 2013 into 2014, paying the farmers wasn't because there were no funds it was because political civil servants in the ministries who were against Yingluck used their offices to slow down and stop the government from getting money to pay them. That's a fact. The farmers suffered not because of the program but because of those who refused to work with the Yingluck government to pay them. Of course, the rice losses are real but the loss was to the nation. The pain the farmers suffered came from abuse by civil servants.  Did the farmers eventually get paid? Yes, when the regime took power and its cronies in the ministries who put it in power started to do their jobs again. 

 

There are other sources to back up my notes about the abuse and hypocrisy but as you noted I cannot post them. In a free world, I could without a blink but this is Thailand under limits and military rule. What would life be with the whole truth in Thailand? To say that this isn't about the present regime and the people that put it in power is just wrong. This isn't a time of fair courts or freedom of information. Yes, Yingluck did something wrong but she is not getting a fair trial. This is a witchhunt and you can even see it in the post by people here who aren't interested in Yingluck but rather her brother.

 

[waitforusalso]

49 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Yawn...

Already mentioned in at least 100 posts, she is nor charged with corruption, she is charges with dereliction of duty. And many many posts outline good reasons IMHO and in the opinion of the many posters why she should be charged with dereliction of duty.

Again, yawn...

You seem too sleepy to address the points made. I repeat;

Was there a requirement for the amount of meetings YL had to attend? Is a PM allowed to delegate the responsibility for their various responsibilities? Where exactly is the line between acceptable & criminal levels of negligence? The RPS is but the Hopewell project, Thai Khem Kaeng, GT200 or futsal arenas weren't? 

[Alive]

12 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I'm not going to disagree with some points in your theme, but that doesn't change the fact that this case is a about massive, repeat massive dereliction of duty.   I hope your not suggesting that the massive dereliction of duty should just be ignored.

 

I repeat again, for the 1,000th time, IMHO all alleged wrongdoers should be investigated and if found guilty should received appropriate punishment regardless of colour or whatever.

Well I agree with you that she has some responsibility in this but as it is justice is being given by people who wear one political group's color. How can this be fair ? You should consider this.

[Baerboxer]

21 hours ago, Alive said:

This has always been a witchhunt and there is no sincere legal process or justice in Thailand. The fascists who fill Bangkok don't care about justice or human rights. They talk about violence while their system jails people weekly for their ideas and puts fear into the people to speak the truth. Thailand is the same as ever as the system that enables abuse and corruption is still there with its thug enforcers.

 

So you believe that she's totally innocent then? That not bothering to turn up to any meetings she appointed herself to chair, not ensuring warnings and issued raised were properly investigated with transparency, refusing to present any financial accounts, and actually persecuting and threatening those internally who raised questions was all good sound management and leadership?

 

Selective prosecutions maybe. Witch hunt, no way.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, toddsaed said:

the word is scape goat, coming from the Greek pharmakos, which

\is the root of the word pharmacy, another dubious

industry treating symptoms not causes, it is hard

to understand for a Westerner how a seemingly

illegal government, formed by coup, the

most odious type, and the nineteenth or so in Thailand,

can judge someone legally elected and expect any

credibility coming their way from foreign opinion,

but the world had never been rational in politics

and it will be awhile before that changes

 

Not hard for most Westerners to spot a troll, plant or someone who seems to spew propaganda!

 

Ps - did you miss the bit that she was removed by a court for an abuse of power. Still, seems a family trait.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, lucky11 said:

 

 What you mean is she was too stupid to escape when she had the chance!!

 

No - too stupid to follow big brother's orders to stay and fight. He wants a martyr so he can spin another pantomime he hopes the world will react to.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Alive said:

 

Here are three of your comments. So Ricardo, looking at them you will agree that the regime in power is ignoring the ample warnings from the world and so deserves to face the music after it leaves. Glad to see you are against it and its abuse.

 

As for the' threats' to farmers you suggested please post a link. Everyone here has connections to farmers. Please let us hear the threats they faced. I remember when the regime took over it sent soldiers with weapons drawn onto the pro-government stage forcing Yingluck's governments supporters, mostly who were farmers, to flee. There are videos of that. And after that soldiers went through rural farming villages across the northeast looking for those who would resist. The people in those villages weren't waving flags cheering. They were in fear. My brother in law thought they were taking people away killing them in the forests as they did in the past.

 

You can talk about farmers changing their opinions but there is any truth to that you certainly have to consider that this regime has threatened the people who resist it and its propaganda publicly with detentions and jailings. There is no freedom to speak in support of the past government in Thailand now.

 

What warnings from the world? Of course certain Western political factions, NGOs and bodies like to hear their own voices and "urge" returns to democracy - something many deny their own people in reality. 

 

But the reality is it's business as usual - trade, education, academia, etc etc etc.

 

How many "of the world" have you ever heard defend Yingluck, her regime, or any of her clan? Why do you think that is?

[Baerboxer]

Translate - " the Shin faithful have been out and about recruiting "rent-a-crowd" and hoping for a good turnout. Don't forget those flowers now and remember to show how much you really "love" her and her wonderful family or there's no pay".

 

Queue - the usual Shin fan club on TVF to post how " this spontaneous mass turnout shows the true love for Yingluck, Thaksin and the selfless clan who just want to serve the people and never ever do any wrong".

 

Really need some new script writers.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

He wasn't tried in Thailand though !    

 

And neither can she. Remember she said many times that she and only she was the one in total control.

 

Oh dear, she should be more careful with the scripts.

[Ricardo]

22 minutes ago, Alive said:

 

During the end of 2013 into 2014, paying the farmers wasn't because there were no funds it was because political civil servants in the ministries who were against Yingluck used their offices to slow down and stop the government from getting money to pay them. That's a fact.

 

 

That's interesting, that there were civil-servants who were politically-active and sabotaged the government's good-intentions to pay, do you have a link to any evidence of that claim ?

 

 

And I would suggest that cracks were already showing in the scheme in early-2013, much sooner than "the end of 2013" ? !

 

Government underfunding was already causing delays in payment by the BAAC from 1st October 2013, according to one source,  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-rice-idUSBRE9AI07320131119   ,  which described a proposed B75-billion bond-sale to help fund the subsidy-scheme.

 

Another source  http://www.thaigov.go.th/index.php/en/speech-2/item/82571-government-holds-talk-with-farmers’-representatives-for-“resolutions-on-rice-pledging-payment”  describes payments for September 2013 deliveries remaining unpaid in February 2014 due to a documentation problem.

 

While the New York Times described in February 2013 how   "Farmers in several provinces have said they have been unable to get immediate payment when they sold rice to the government.  “Some farmers had to wait a few months to get their money,” said Prasit Boonchoey, president of the Thai Farmers Association."   ...   http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/business/global/thai-rice-subsidy-program-short-of-money.html?_r=0

[Caveat Emptor]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And neither can she. Remember she said many times that she and only she was the one in total control.

 

Oh dear, she should be more careful with the scripts.

If she hadn't insisted she was in control to avoid looking the puppet she was it would be believable if she said her brother put her in the post,  picked her advisers and made it clear she did and said as she was told.

In the current climate I'm not saying it would be of much help mind you.

[TerrylSky]

Book 'er Danno!

The filthy rich and corrupt deserve no leniency.

Do I detect Yellow Shirt riots at a too lenient punishment by the courts?

[dhream]

6 hours ago, PatOngo said:

"I was drunk" is a popular excuse.....maybe she could try that!

Drunk with power? Absolutely shitfaced by the look of it. But that's how the high rollers roll. It's just someone elses turn at the golden punchbowl now...

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, Alive said:

"Morality"? You are ridiculous. There was not moral choice involved in this. This is a program that failed badly. The losses come from market issues not crime. The cases where there might be crime are small and are being dealt with. This is about a bad choice, bad luck and world markets. Most farmers got their money, don't you know? The people protesting weren't farmers, don't you know? The farmers still support Yingluck, don,t you know?

 

Here's a flashback to those who hate Yingluck. Hmm, are these folks the farmers?  They also think corruption is okay.

 

Ahhhh... so severe and total dereliction of duty by a prime minister / any minister / any executive is not serious.

You mentioned " The people protesting weren't farmers, don't you know? The farmers still support Yingluck, don,t you know? "

 

Here's the real truth: the farmers did conduct a number of small, medium and large protests (google it) until one day just outside of Bkk a large farmer protest contingent were spoken to by 'someone'. They all turned around very quickly and headed home quickly with no further comment. How interesting.

 

The farmers still support yl. Sure some do, and some don't even know why they support her, and some are brainwashed, and some support her because 'she's nice'. 

 

Yawn again.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Alive said:

 

Save us from this mentality please...

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by scorecard