Retirement extension New rules ?

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

 

I have a new Non Immigrant O visa and went to the immigration (Cheang Wattana) to get an extension of stay (1 year). The lady told me I have to be in the country for at least 45 days and after that can get the 1 year extension based on sufficient funds in the bank account. I have never heard of this 'rule' 

 

Is this an official requirement?

 

:-(

[Evilbaz]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Immigration officers in the local offices do not set immigration policy. I am referring to immigration officers that elicit bribes for fraudulent applications. The changes to immigration policy usually come from the top and in some cases can be because of corrupt immigration officers.

 

 

I beg to differ.

Local rules and procedures are often set by local Immi offices.

That's what counts in our Immi interactions.

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Maybe you could go to another province, stay in a hotel and tell immigration that you are moving to this new and pleasant town but have not yet found a house to rent long term.

That might work for a tourist visa entry but certainly not for a one year extension of stay.

Perhaps if you paid for a month in advance for the hotel they and did a rental agreement they might consider it.

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

 

I have a new Non Immigrant O visa and went to the immigration (Cheang Wattana) to get an extension of stay (1 year). The lady told me I have to be in the country for at least 45 days and after that can get the 1 year extension based on sufficient funds in the bank account. I have never heard of this 'rule' 

 

Is this an official requirement?

 

:-(

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

"If there was a problem they would let you know during the 30 days"...

 

Would they?

 

Yes, most applicants would not want to be on hold for 30 days and it would cause stress. It's not paranoia requiring medication, but a worry nonetheless.

 

The way you post about the Immigration Office indicates you have a lot of faith in their competence and efficiency. It's like you've just arrived and don't know any better. I don't believe they are as predictable as you believe, but once again you're making excuses for them.

Yes they would!

 

I've lived here 21 years and have a lot of experience dealing with immigration and Thai bureaucracy. Although it can be frustrating having to supply all the requirements I accept that it is not because they are looking for reasons to decline the application. It's the opposite. IO's have a set of requirements to meet and will, usually, follow that to the letter. As administrators, in any government agency, do with Thais and foreigners alike.

 

Anyone with a legitimate reason to be here, that can meet the requirements asked of them, will never have a problem getting an extension of stay. Maybe if you understood the system better you wouldn't need to worry so much or resort to childish accusations.

Edited August 8, 2016 by elviajero

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, AlexLah said:

Hi all,

 

I have a new Non Immigrant O visa and went to the immigration (Cheang Wattana) to get an extension of stay (1 year). The lady told me I have to be in the country for at least 45 days and after that can get the 1 year extension based on sufficient funds in the bank account. I have never heard of this 'rule' 

 

Is this an official requirement?

 

:-(

You cannot apply for an extension until the last 45 days your your 90 day entry (30 days at many other offices). It has been the rule for many years.

[evadgib]

22 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Thailand enacted an actual law recently that states that Thai government agencies can ONLY charge the fees that are specifically spelled out in their regulations, and nothing else.

 

Supposedly, if some Thai government agencies tries to charge you a unofficial fee that not the norm, you could file a complaint and they'd supposedly get in trouble. The problem, of course, is what would happen to your retirement extension application after that...

 

A common myth. Complaints from anyone found to be within the rules would open a can of worms from on high. Dodgy officials know this and will back down when victims stand their ground.

 

Question for the OP or anyone who's payed the ridiculous fee suggested. Did you get a receipt...? 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Dunno if the person you're referring to called the 1111 govt hotline number or elsewhere... Who did he call?

 

But more to the point, do you mean after complaining to Bangkok, the person you're referring to was able to go back to the offending Immigration office in Udon and they reversed course and issued his extension in the normal fashion without the added fee?

 

Yes exactly that.

 

Application, 30 day under consideration stamp, complaint, returned to office extension issued, total fee 1,900 no extras paid. All within a morning or afternoon.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Typically when officials here try to pull stunts like that, they'll refuse, not surprisingly, to give a receipt.

 

I had that happen once at CW when the officer who was handling my request for a Residency Certificate wanted a couple hundred baht as the fee, for a service that is supposed to be free.  I asked, no receipt.

 

I would have liked to have complained to someone. But when you're there in the office and the officer in front of you is refusing, who are you going to take the issue to? And before you answer ask for his supervisor, at a place like CW, that's likely to lead nowhere.

 

Even if you can get past the predictable, sorry, not available, the supervisors, seemingly, don't deign to talk to us common farang mortals -- at least, in a big bureaucracy place like CW. Perhaps it might be different in the small, local Immigration offices.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[elviajero]

41 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

I beg to differ.

Local rules and procedures are often set by local Immi offices.

That's what counts in our Immi interactions.

I said "Immigration officers in the local offices do not set immigration policy". Meaning that the officers that are taking the applications do not set the national rules. Most changes we see each year come from the top. 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

Beware the Thai-bashing policemen, they're forever vigilant.

 

See no evil, hear no evil... just keep your head buried deep in the sand.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

So even when you go from the first day of your  application  ext period ,and they keep 30 days , and then to say NO you do not get , you are in overstay same moment as a retiree ....?

No. If an application is declined you would be given (if necessary) 7 days to leave the country. That wouldn't stop you coming back.

[tropo]

41 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes they would!

 

I've lived here 21 years and have a lot of experience dealing with immigration and Thai bureaucracy. Although it can be frustrating having to supply all the requirements I accept that it is not because they are looking for reasons to decline the application. It's the opposite. IO's have a set of requirements to meet and will, usually, follow that to the letter. As administrators, in any government agency, do with Thais and foreigners alike.

 

Anyone with a legitimate reason to be here, that can meet the requirements asked of them, will never have a problem getting an extension of stay. Maybe if you understood the system better you wouldn't need to worry so much or resort to childish accusations.

It's not a childish accusation as it comes out in nearly every post you offer.

 

Here's a good example. Above there was a post by Louse1953:

 

Quote:

 

"Out my way,the new deal is they hold the application for a month and in that month they come out and check where i live and are the locals whether i am cool or not.What happens if i'm not,he wouldn't answer to."

 

If they did that in our area, I would be sent packing as we have been involved in a nasty dispute with a crazy Thai neighbour which even resulted in a court case. They would take her side over mine as I'm the outsider. I'd have to move before I applied for an extension.

 

In an attempt not to be childish, as you suggested I am, I think you're rather naive.

 

 

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

It's not a childish accusation as it comes out in nearly every post you offer.

 

Here's a good example. Above there was a post by Louse1953:

 

Quote:

 

"Out my way,the new deal is they hold the application for a month and in that month they come out and check where i live and are the locals whether i am cool or not.What happens if i'm not,he wouldn't answer to."

 

If they did that in our area, I would be sent packing as we have been involved in a nasty dispute with a crazy Thai neighbour which even resulted in a court case. They would take her side over mine as I'm the outsider. I'd have to move before I applied for an extension.

 

In an attempt not to be childish, as you suggested I am, I think you're rather naive.

That is not a good example of every post I offer as the quote is not mine!

 

Home visits are being done all over the country and are likely to get more frequent because of the increasing fraudulent marriage and retirement extensions. If you won the court case I don't see what you have to worry about. If you lost, or they spoke up against you, it doesn't mean you "would be sent packing" or that "they would take her side". Unless you break the law you've little to worry about. And you call me naive!

 

Your paranoia that immigration offices are looking for reasons to decline applications clearly comes from your own insecurities.

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

That is not a good example of every post I offer as the quote is not mine!

 

Home visits are being done all over the country and are likely to get more frequent because of the increasing fraudulent marriage and retirement extensions. If you won the court case I don't see what you have to worry about. If you lost, or they spoke up against you, it doesn't mean you "would be sent packing" or that "they would take her side". Unless you break the law you've little to worry about. And you call me naive!

 

Your paranoia that immigration offices are looking for reasons to decline applications clearly comes from your own insecurities.

It's pretty obvious that they are looking for ways to decline applications, or putting pressure on for express payments. This hasn't happened over my way yet as far as I know. You're unduly optimistic IMO. Not sharing your optimism doesn't make me paranoid - it's being realistic.

 

... and yes, I would be sent be sent packing... no doubt about it. Giving details would be beyond the scope of this discussion, but don't assume without knowing all the details.

 

 

[lavender19]

 

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Udon was doing this for about a year, however there were complaints made to the central phone call centre and the local office for complaints against corruption.

 

The reports I have heard say that it now is back to the same day issue.

 

Also one individual who was given the 30 day review stam and offered the "fast track" no receipt option walked out of the office called Bangkok and was told to go straight back to the office where his extension was issued on the spot

Having major problem trying to use the quote function .Don't know if to do with upgrade?

 

I walked out of the office also as I wanted more info first as they would not answer my question there.

Who did they call in Bkk.The immigration office?

I have all the correct paperwork as I have done many times before and for the life of me I can not see what would take 30 days.

This office used to be a pleasure to deal with, alas no more I have heard of numerous case of people being messed about over the last few months.

I don't know if there is a new sheriff in town but If there is I wish he would get on his horse and go away

Edited August 8, 2016 by ubonjoe
removed duplicate quotes

[elviajero]

18 minutes ago, tropo said:

It's pretty obvious that they are looking for ways to decline applications, or putting pressure on for express payments. This hasn't happened over my way yet as far as I know. You're unduly optimistic IMO. Not sharing your optimism doesn't make me paranoid - it's being realistic.

 

... and yes, I would be sent be sent packing... no doubt about it. Giving details would be beyond the scope of this discussion, but don't assume without knowing all the details.

If they are looking for ways to decline applications they aren't very good at it! Maybe you could provide some of this obvious evidence to back up your claim.

I follow this forum everyday and I'm not reading about applications getting declined, only about those not being accepted because they don't meet the requirements. And even then they are given the opportunity to get the required documents together. Corruption is a different matter and without a doubt exists all over the country. That said, not all IO's are corrupt by a long way.

 

I'm not assuming anything, you are. You said they would send you packing, but until you get a visit you don't know that for sure.

[lavender19]

6 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

gdaya folks,

 

30 days so what the heck ??? retired no time ??? i think its about being fussy, considerung marriage extension compared to the retirement one, you need to wait 30 days as well thus given you ll be granted the approval. those who dont like it, have the great freedom to go home.

 

cheers roobaa01

I asked for some some helpful information. Not the " if you don't like it go home " drivel.

This is my home and has been for many ,many years

[khundon]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

See no evil, hear no evil... just keep your head buried deep in the sand.

I think he is long past the head in the sand approach and has now gone to head up the ass approach.

 

[Liquorice]

You could ring the Immigration hotline in Bangkok (1111).

If there is such a thing as an 'Express Service' charge then why isn't it listed.

 

Recently the Government appointed an Anti Corruption Complaints office and advised anyone encountering corruption to report it. (1205)

It was aimed at Police and Immigration especially.

 

Were they offering a receipt for such a payment......I doubt it.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Faz

[mrfaroukh]

May be you should go to the police station and enquire about this. If people start paying this amount they will soon make it a law and not matter what you have to pay 4900 Baht for the extension. I heard there is a telephone number 1111 that people can complain, not sure about the number.

[Kron]

On 07/08/2016 at 3:28 PM, lavender19 said:

No the place is deserted most of the time.I think it's more to do with revenue but would like to find out if they can do this.

Silly question .It's immigration they can do as they feel.

Was at Chumphon Immigration yesterday (90 day) and found the place packed. Full of Asian's doing the Foreign National Information form. The Female Officer who does the visa extensions was having to do these info forms as well and her desk was heaving with paperwork. Never had her ask for additional 'fees' or a 30 day check  in the 4/5 years I have been dealing with her. Maybe you (lavender19) just caught her at a bad time.

 

As always, afterwards, wondered why all those Asians (30+) were doing the info form and that alone (only papers in there hands). Has a deadline been set for there submission?

[macca46]

They used to do this in Udon Thani to up until just recently but I believe they have now reverted to issuing it straight away.

 

Tea money or lunch for the staff for a week? 

[tropo]

19 hours ago, elviajero said:

If they are looking for ways to decline applications they aren't very good at it! Maybe you could provide some of this obvious evidence to back up your claim.

I follow this forum everyday and I'm not reading about applications getting declined, only about those not being accepted because they don't meet the requirements. And even then they are given the opportunity to get the required documents together. Corruption is a different matter and without a doubt exists all over the country. That said, not all IO's are corrupt by a long way.

 

I'm not assuming anything, you are. You said they would send you packing, but until you get a visit you don't know that for sure.

I don't read this forum everyday, but have been keeping a close eye on it for over 10 years. Of course I'm most concerned about what goes on at the Chonburi office. Reading about the shenanigans going on in other areas merely suggests what could happen at my office at any time. The frequency of posting these days is way down on what it used to, so I can't and shouldn't assume that people who have been declined extensions are likely to report about it on here when they have more pressing concerns such as relocation to other countries. I'm sure only a very small percentage of problems are reported on here. That's my assumption.  It's a cautious approach, but not paranoia, as you like to call it. My world would not end if I was encouraged to leave Thailand.

 

I have double the concerns as my wife and I are both foreigners. 

 

I'll give you a good example of what could happen. Back before I got my first retirement extension, circa 2008, at the Jomtien office they decided, for a brief time to require the main retired visa holder and dependant to meet the income requirements individually. This didn't last long, but it did happen. That would definitely be a deal breaker for us.

 

These guys are unpredictable.

Edited August 9, 2016 by tropo

[lavender19]

3 hours ago, Kron said:

Was at Chumphon Immigration yesterday (90 day) and found the place packed. Full of Asian's doing the Foreign National Information form. The Female Officer who does the visa extensions was having to do these info forms as well and her desk was heaving with paperwork. Never had her ask for additional 'fees' or a 30 day check  in the 4/5 years I have been dealing with her. Maybe you (lavender19) just caught her at a bad time.

 

As always, afterwards, wondered why all those Asians (30+) were doing the info form and that alone (only papers in there hands). Has a deadline been set for there submission?

Strange I have never seen it packed before . Maybe you caught it on a bad day

I know of three others who have been to renew their extension recently all with the same outcome as mine.

It's not the female officer who is to blame .

I have never had a problem before either as I said before this office used to be a pleasure to deal with.

[Bsd]

On 8 August 2016 at 9:24 AM, parallaxtech said:

Also happening in Koh Samui as last week went to SIO, sat outside for 8 hours only to be told either wait for several days or 5000B for the approval.  I have received ten extensions w/o having to pay more than 1900B.  I always have the correct documents.  Firstly, she said that I was not allowed interest on my SCB fixed account so I called the VP (friend) and he explained that my money and account were acceptable.  Secondly, she said that I had too many extensions and I asked her to show me a document citing a limitation.  What really irked me was when she said that 1900B would no longer be acceptable and that even with a pension letter (which I offered to get) the result would be the same.

 

By the way, last year I was in and out in one hour with my extension.  The boss even came out and talked to me.  I told him that over the years that office had been very corrupt and he laughed and said that there was a new sheriff in town and that it would never happen again.  He was transferred out.  Should I file a complaint or would it be a waste of time?

 

Samui Immigration yesterday (9/8) the wait for long term visas was 7 hours+.

 

2 people got sent home after 4 hours of waiting told they had come in too early (come back with 7 days of expiry).  Another person got sent home straight away even after asking the boss where in the regulations it says 7 days.

2 people waited 7 hours for retirement extensions only to be told they needed to get a Kor Ror 22.

On seeing that all my previous extensions had been done by Nok the officer asked me how much I had paid him before accepting my 1,900 baht.

At 2pm the staff at the counter started suggesting to people from Koh Phangan that maybe they should get a hotel for the night.

Number of long term extensions actually granted yesterday maybe 3.

 

The only time any of my previous extensions took more than an hour was when Nok sent me off to get another document at the amphur.  When that told 2.5 hours he apologised to me and worked through lunch to process my visa.

 

File a complaint, I am going to at least one of the other couples that was there yesterday is going to, if multiple complaints are received on the same issue it is more likely that something will happen.  One last piece of advice complain high up either 1111 or go to the army.

[billd766]

On 8/8/2016 at 4:00 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Typically when officials here try to pull stunts like that, they'll refuse, not surprisingly, to give a receipt.

 

I had that happen once at CW when the officer who was handling my request for a Residency Certificate wanted a couple hundred baht as the fee, for a service that is supposed to be free.  I asked, no receipt.

 

I would have liked to have complained to someone. But when you're there in the office and the officer in front of you is refusing, who are you going to take the issue to? And before you answer ask for his supervisor, at a place like CW, that's likely to lead nowhere.

 

Even if you can get past the predictable, sorry, not available, the supervisors, seemingly, don't deign to talk to us common farang mortals -- at least, in a big bureaucracy place like CW. Perhaps it might be different in the small, local Immigration offices.

 

 

 

It is a lot different in smaller Immigration offices. The one I use at Nakhon Sawan to my knowledge from talking to friends who have used the office and my own experience, is that nobody has asked for a bribe for anything. I have no idea if I can speak to a supervisor or not as I have never had the need to.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As I said above, CW overall is pretty good about following the actual rules and procedures, and not deviating with their own off-the-books stuff.

 

Charging a couple hundred baht fee for a residency certificate may well be the exception to that, although if so, it's a pretty small one in the context of all the other worse stuff that goes on at various offices around the country, based on posts here on TV.

 

AFAICT, there is a lot of variation as regards residency certificates at different Immigration offices, with some providing them for free (as I gather they're supposed to be), and others charging varying levels of a "fee."  If only that was the worst thing people have to deal with...

 

[hdkane]

On 8/8/2016 at 8:52 AM, ubonjoe said:

You cannot pick and choose which immigration office you use. You have to be a resident of the area they are responsible for.

I way to change offices is to move to another province with an exception of those that have two offices.

I'm happy you told me this...when I don't trust an office, previously, I've always gone to another one, timing it with a visit to see my friend...at those times, I used the local address, since I stay in the area a few days...does this mean that I may be refused an extension at some point if my addresses do not match in their records? Or do the agencies even keep records now? Should I use the same office for my 90 day reporting as I did when I obtained the original visa?  Thanks again for any advice...

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, hdkane said:

I'm happy you told me this...when I don't trust an office, previously, I've always gone to another one, timing it with a visit to see my friend...at those times, I used the local address, since I stay in the area a few days...does this mean that I may be refused an extension at some point if my addresses do not match in their records? Or do the agencies even keep records now? Should I use the same office for my 90 day reporting as I did when I obtained the original visa?  Thanks again for any advice...

Those requirements have been in effect for many years now if applying for a long stay extensions. 

If you have been able to change offices you have been very lucky. Most now want firm proof of residence such as a rental agreement. They do check their records to see if you are changing addresses and will insist on you formally changing your address.

Since early last year you cannot do your 90 day reports at another office other than the one where you applied for your extension or have formally changed your address to that office.