Valid Tourist Visa Activity Now Triggers Immigration-Computer Hold

[JayBird]

22 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Resident-tax does not apply to foreign-income earned in previous years.  Unless they open up a new avenue for 'non-elite' folks under 50, there would be personal and economic consequences to such a change.

 

Many people would forced apart because someone "wasn't 50 yet" - to spite having enough foreign-income to support themselves just as over 50s do.   This would also cost billions of lost foreign-income from people who will move to other countries, more likely retire there, and spend the rest of their lives pumping money into those economies, instead of Thailand.  Not good for the Thai economy or Thai people who rely on it. 

 

OTOH, if you are suggesting they make that change in conjunction with dropping the "50 years old" rule, so that Non-O-based stays were possible, then I agree, entirely.  After all, 'being 50' would in no way prevent someone doing something bad (like taking a Thai job or breaking other laws) that a 40-year-old might do. If that were the logic, then 80 might be a better age to ensure most were unable to work or rob a bank.

 

What could be better for a country than welcoming people who do nothing but live peacefully and dump foreign-currency into the economy?  What possible good could it serve to cause harm to those people, their Thai contacts, and the Thai economy, with such a change?

 

It would be a beautiful world indeed if any one was allowed to live anywhere for any amount of time provided they never worked or used any services of that country.  And they simply dumped money into the country.

 

Sadly, most countries don't want to enable that.... I think far too many people who would abuse that system.

[JackThompson]

To finish the story - I was admitted without issue by returning via Koh Kong.  Potential reasons for the lack of drama on re-entry - just my speculation:

• It was a different Immigration Region than the Poipet crossing, so perhaps the "flag and question" rules differ.
• This was after the terrorist attacks in the South, so perhaps they are more focused on dangerous-types and/or more happy to welcome visitors, as many others are undoubtedly cancelling vacations.
• I was out of the country for a week and re-entered a good distance from where I left - not a "wait in Poipet for the visa" routine.

 

On 8/13/2016 at 9:54 PM, JayBird said:

It would be a beautiful world indeed if any one was allowed to live anywhere for any amount of time provided they never worked or used any services of that country.  And they simply dumped money into the country.

 

Sadly, most countries don't want to enable that.... I think far too many people who would abuse that system.

 

This is exactly the situation available to those over 50 in Thailand, and in many other countries with or without an age-restriction.  Most have some sort of financial-proof qualifications to minimize abuse; some do not.  I do not see why an adult's age affects the potential for visa-abuse, though I completely support a country screening applicants for criminal history and requiring proof they have the funds to support themselves without violating "employment prohibited" terms. 

 

My primary point, however, is that the IO at the border is not in the best position to determine a person's financial-status and intent.  Clear rules everyone knows for Tourist Visas and Visa Exempts (similar to the new, clear, overstay-rules) combined with visa-applicant pre-screening would be far superior to ambiguous computer-generated red-flags.

[itsuptome]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

To finish the story - I was admitted without issue by returning via Koh Kong.  Potential reasons for the lack of drama on re-entry - just my speculation:

• It was a different Immigration Region than the Poipet crossing, so perhaps the "flag and question" rules differ.
• This was after the terrorist attacks in the South, so perhaps they are more focused on dangerous-types and/or more happy to welcome visitors, as many others are undoubtedly cancelling vacations.
• I was out of the country for a week and re-entered a good distance from where I left - not a "wait in Poipet for the visa" routine.

 

 

This is exactly the situation available to those over 50 in Thailand, and in many other countries with or without an age-restriction.  Most have some sort of financial-proof qualifications to minimize abuse; some do not.  I do not see why an adult's age affects the potential for visa-abuse, though I completely support a country screening applicants for criminal history and requiring proof they have the funds to support themselves without violating "employment prohibited" terms. 

 

My primary point, however, is that the IO at the border is not in the best position to determine a person's financial-status and intent.  Clear rules everyone knows for Tourist Visas and Visa Exempts (similar to the new, clear, overstay-rules) combined with visa-applicant pre-screening would be far superior to ambiguous computer-generated red-flags.

 

You are of course correct that the bulk of the screening should generally occur at the visa application phase, not after the visa grant when the holder is entering the country. In spite of the constant reminders from Immigration Junior Scouts that the border IOs can do whatever they want, there are many reasons that the screening should happen on the application, and IOs should apply their powers conservatively. Not the least of which being that screening during the visa application process is more effective.

 

Immigration generally understands this and actual refusals at the border are rare.

 

So why don't they do more screening at application time?

 

Well, the visa application process is controlled by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Whereas Immigration is a bureau of the Royal Thai Police. The border IOs are working for the police. MOFA isn't and the Immigration bureau doesn't control who gets a visa.

 

So, this is entirely speculation on my part, but is influenced by a little bit of familiarity with people who work at these authorities. I suspect that if MOFA perceived a major problem with who is being let into Thailand on any kind of visa, they would have changed the visa application process a long time ago.

 

This is not to suggest there's no possibility of someone above both authorities coming along and telling them that a new era has arrived... or that this has already happened and there is a phased approach in progress beginning with the replacement of double/triple entry TVs with a harder-to-acquire METV.

 

But it will come from MOFA imo, the police will be pissing off a lot of bureaucrats from other factions if they start cancelling valid tourist visas left and right. Kicking out some serial tourists is not worth the political cost.