Ecuador to set date for Assange to be questioned by Sweden

[webfact]

Ecuador to set date for Assange to be questioned by Sweden

By JILL LAWLESS

 

LONDON (AP) — Ecuador said Thursday it's ready to set a date for Swedish prosecutors to question Julian Assange inside its London embassy — a potential breakthrough in the years-long international impasse over the WikiLeaks founder.

 

Assange is wanted for questioning by Swedish police over a rape allegation stemming from his visit to the country in 2010. He has not been charged and denies the rape claim and other allegations made against him by two women. In June 2012, he sought shelter in Ecuador's embassy in the British capital and has been holed up there ever since.

 

Ecuador announced last year that it had agreed to a Swedish proposal to interview Assange at the embassy, but no interview has taken place.

 

Ecuador's Foreign Ministry said in a statement that a date for the questioning in the embassy would be set "in the coming weeks."

 

Swedish Prosecution Authority spokeswoman Karin Rosander said Sweden handed over a formal request to interview Assange in January, and a reminder in June, and received Ecuador's reply on Tuesday.

 

"It means that a questioning can make the case go forward," Rosander told The Associated Press. "This is decisive to be able to take a decision whether to formally charge him or not."

 

Rosander said the Swedish prosecutor is on vacation and no date has been set for the trip to London.

 

In a statement late Thursday, the office of Ecuador's chief prosecutor said Ecuadorean officials would handle the questioning under an accord signed with Sweden in December. The statement said chief prosecutor Galo Chiriboga would in the coming days designate a team to "receive" the testimony from Assange at the Ecuadorean Embassy in London.

 

Assange's defense team said in a statement that it welcomed the steps to take the WikiLeaks founder's statement, which it said "comes after six years of complete inaction on the part of the Swedish prosecutor."

 

Sweden wants to question Assange about a rape claim, one of several allegations made against him by two women he met in 2010. Last year Swedish prosecutors dropped investigations into claims of sexual molestation and unlawful coercion because their five-year statues of limitations were expiring.

 

Assange, 45, fears that if he is extradited to Sweden he will be sent to the United States to be prosecuted for WikiLeaks' publication of secret documents, including reams of U.S. diplomatic cables.

 

Chelsea Manning, an American soldier who passed secret military and State Department documents to WikiLeaks, is serving a 35-year sentence in a military prison.

 

Assange faces arrest by British police if he leaves the building and, with the exception of occasional trips to the embassy balcony, has not been outside for years.

 

In February, a United Nations panel said Assange's stay at the embassy constituted arbitrary detention and he should be freed. The British and Swedish governments have rejected the non-binding findings of the U.N's Working Group on Arbitrary Detention.

 

In its statement, Ecuador said it stands by its 2012 commitment to grant Assange asylum due to "fears of political persecution."

___

Jan M. Olsen in Copenhagen, Denmark; Frank Jordans in Berlin and Gonzalo Solano in Quito contributed to this story.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-08-12

[maximillian]

Shame on Sweden and GB. They should make sure he will not be extradited to the USA.

Assange should be allowed to go wherever he pleases and wherever he feels safe.

Same applies to Edward Snowden.

[midas]

35 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Shame on Sweden and GB. They should make sure he will not be extradited to the USA.

Assange should be allowed to go wherever he pleases and wherever he feels safe.

Same applies to Edward Snowden.

 

 

I agree but I wonder if he can ever feel safe after he leaves the Embassy. What did he do wrong? He has only ever contributed to revealing the inconvenient truth about  illegal behaviour that some people in power would rather the rest of the world not know about. But there are some very vindictive people out there such as Democratic strategist Bob Beckel who has called for the assassination of Julian Assange.

Bob Beckel: "Illegally Shoot the SOB" (Julian Assange of WikiLeaks)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImgsRg-a-8

Edited August 12, 2016 by midas

[Norvid]

It is ridicules that powerful countries can wage war after war on false pretenses and nobody is responsible or charge, but individuals put in jails for uncovering truth.  Worse, they are being killed too. 

 

IS THIS DEMOCRACY? 

or 

DICTATORSHIP

governed by special interest group? 

 

Julian Assange should have a clear case done in neutral court in neutral country supervised by United Nation security unit. This same goes for Snowden. Too much lies from people like Hillary Clinton. People are fed up  with what apparently is playing with all under their direct control. There is no more democracy left as in communist country. Just empty words and slogans of no value whatsoever like again from this liar and crook Hillary Clinton. Get rid off crooks like that and rebuild true democratic ideas, which made AMERICA so GREAT for so long.

 

Where is FEE SPEECH?

 

Remember this? It's not an utopia! It is our right!

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.   The topic is about Ecuador/Sweden/Assange.   Stay on topic please.  

[Publicus]

 

Assange has only begun to get his due.

 

Assange ratted out Sweden for its intelligence agency monitoring the Russian Internet to the tune of 80% and turning it over regularly to the United States. Assange is best buddies with a leftist dictator in Ecuador and Putin besides.  

 

No Wikileaks stuff on either Russia, Ecuador or Trump. 

[bassman]

Quite possibly some of the highest people in highest offices are ready to talk a deal, if he will just stay quiet for three more months.

[Publicus]

15 minutes ago, bassman said:

Quite possibly some of the highest people in highest offices are ready to talk a deal, if he will just stay quiet for three more months.

 

If Assange had gone ahead several years ago to publish the stuff he said publicly he had on Putin he'd have been put silent then and forever. 

[ezzra]

 

In this world, there's certain order to things that all parties have agreed to keep, like honor among thieves if you will,  even chaos and disorder has an order and sense to it, so when guys like Assange and Snowden comes along and upset things and turn over the apple's cart, feathers get ruffled and pride get's hurt, play by the unspoken rules and you live long and free, otherwise, being a maverick has it's price and consequences to pay.... 

[IAMHERE]

The CIA doing its best work. Well at least working hard at it, making promises, payments, I'm betting the two women were paid off handsumly to make false accusations.

[RuamRudy]

13 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Assange has only begun to get his due.

 

Assange ratted out Sweden for its intelligence agency monitoring the Russian Internet to the tune of 80% and turning it over regularly to the United States. Assange is best buddies with a leftist dictator in Ecuador and Putin besides.  

 

No Wikileaks stuff on either Russia, Ecuador or Trump. 

 

If it was as straight-forward as that, why is the CIA not funding a wikileaks clone which attacked the 'enemy'?

[Publicus]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

If it was as straight-forward as that, why is the CIA not funding a wikileaks clone which attacked the 'enemy'?

 

 

Might want to pose the question into a mirror cause anyone with a guess would have an equally speculative answer along with other mirror gazers.

 

Maybe it's a no-win game of endless mutually destructive revelations that benefit no one and injure all players, sort of a cyber espionage mutually assured destruction of everyone's national security information. It's always the case in international competition, intelligence and diplomacy especially, that certain rocks are best left unturned by everyone involved or affected. Snakes bite indiscriminately. 

 

Assange in Putin's employ had said from his day one he was focused on the West, the United States especially. His bassakwards logic from down under is that countries like CCP China and Russia are actually easier to expose, change, reform, than are the Western Democracies. He talks transparent garbage, perhaps knowingly and deliberately.

 

Assange is pursuing his own game and it fits exactly with the games of Putin and Xi Jinping. Recall Wikileaks sought out and met Edward Snowden in Hong Kong to take him to Moscow -- supposedly on to Ecuador -- which is where Snowden ended up, all of it quickly and immediately after Snowden fled the United States clandestinely.  

 

Turned out the dictator president of Ecuador Correa hadn't actually signed the travel and immigration documents to Ecuador. Turned out further that Snowden stayed in Moscow on papers issued there and where Putin had given Assange a television talk show on Russia Today. 

 

Assange is so far up Putin's ass he had to push Correa further up to make room for the new guy Snowden.

[RuamRudy]

21 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

 

Might want to pose the question into a mirror cause anyone with a guess would have an equally speculative answer along with other mirror gazers.

 

Maybe it's a no-win game of endless mutually destructive revelations that benefit no one and injure all players, sort of a cyber espionage mutually assured destruction of everyone's national security information. It's always the case in international competition, intelligence and diplomacy especially, that certain rocks are best left unturned by everyone involved or affected. Snakes bite indiscriminately. 

 

Assange in Putin's employ had said from his day one he was focused on the West, the United States especially. His bassakwards logic from down under is that countries like CCP China and Russia are actually easier to expose, change, reform, than are the Western Democracies. He talks transparent garbage, perhaps knowingly and deliberately.

 

Assange is pursuing his own game and it fits exactly with the games of Putin and Xi Jinping. Recall Wikileaks sought out and met Edward Snowden in Hong Kong to take him to Moscow -- supposedly on to Ecuador -- which is where Snowden ended up, all of it quickly and immediately after Snowden fled the United States clandestinely.  

 

Turned out the dictator president of Ecuador Correa hadn't actually signed the travel and immigration documents to Ecuador. Turned out further that Snowden stayed in Moscow on papers issued there and where Putin had given Assange a television talk show on Russia Today. 

 

Assange is so far up Putin's ass he had to push Correa further up to make room for the new guy Snowden.

 

I am sure much of it is 'my enemy's enemy...' from Putin's perspective. He seems to like to mess with the status quo for the sake of it (although I don't doubt that he is a master strategist).

 

Personally, I am happy to see any individual exposing corruption or illegality from our governments and big business. Ideally they would be free of influence or bias, but if the facts are irrefutable then surely we should welcome their exposure regardless of the motives of the whistle blower?

[Publicus]

 

Putin and Assange are trying to influence the election of the Potus from Moscow. There are Americans and Putin supporters in other countries who like the fact, but the vast majority on this side are loyal to our respective country and to our respective political system and form of government.

 

Indisputable facts are interesting things. It is for instance indisputable fact the former director of CIA says Trump is the "unwitting" agent of Vladimir Putin. It is clear around here -- perhaps indisputable fact -- there are others who are simply and directly the willing supporters of Putin and Assange. 

 

Again, Assange focuses on the West while he kisses the <deleted> of Putin and CCP China. There are Americans and others who like this too. Espionage can take many forms under the law.

 

Putin must know HRC will be elected. So let's see of Vlad wants to get combative about it after she is sworn in. Who knows, maybe Vlad will ship Assange or Snowden over to the USA as a gesture of goodwill to start things off with the new Potus. 

[Publicus]

26 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I am sure much of it is 'my enemy's enemy...' from Putin's perspective. He seems to like to mess with the status quo for the sake of it (although I don't doubt that he is a master strategist).

 

Personally, I am happy to see any individual exposing corruption or illegality from our governments and big business. Ideally they would be free of influence or bias, but if the facts are irrefutable then surely we should welcome their exposure regardless of the motives of the whistle blower?

 

The right has spent every frantic minute of the past 25 years in a succession of whacked out schemes in trying to bring down a Clinton, both of 'em.

 

Zero success. This is yet another wild grab and stab in the dark. Wish, hope, desperation lives on over there, undaunted by fact, experience, reality.

 

Carry on.

 

Over there. 

[keemapoot]

45 minutes ago, Publicus said:

Putin must know HRC will be elected. So let's see of Vlad wants to get combative about it after she is sworn in. Who knows, maybe Vlad will ship Assange or Snowden over to the USA as a gesture of goodwill to start things off with the new Potus. 

 

For sure, Assange and Snowden are saps, and considered pawns and completely expendable by Putin. He would do that in a heartbeat if he felt it was in his and Russia's best interests. Of course he knows HRC will be elected. Wouldn't surprise me if he was already starting deportation arrangements for Snowden and drawing up a list of things he wants in exchange.

[midas]

2 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Putin and Assange are trying to influence the election of the Potus from Moscow. There are Americans and Putin supporters in other countries who like the fact, but the vast majority on this side are loyal to our respective country and to our respective political system and form of government.

 

Indisputable facts are interesting things. It is for instance indisputable fact the former director of CIA says Trump is the "unwitting" agent of Vladimir Putin. It is clear around here -- perhaps indisputable fact -- there are others who are simply and directly the willing supporters of Putin and Assange. 

 

Again, Assange focuses on the West while he kisses the <deleted> of Putin and CCP China. There are Americans and others who like this too. Espionage can take many forms under the law.

 

Putin must know HRC will be elected. So let's see of Vlad wants to get combative about it after she is sworn in. Who knows, maybe Vlad will ship Assange or Snowden over to the USA as a gesture of goodwill to start things off with the new Potus. 

 

 

"  Putin must know HRC will be elected  "

 

But Putin probably has only just learned (like the rest of us) that Preet Bharara one of the toughest prosecutors in USA has just been appointed to investigate the Foundation. 

[thaihome]

I find it particularly telling that the people who cheered Snowden's exposure of the NSA's system to read terrorists' emails (with the permission of the email system owners) are now cheering Russian sponsorship of the illegal hacks of various US government and private email systems and the attempt to influence the US presidential election through disclosure of the contents those emails.

 

Just shows the hypocrisy of those people.  It's not ok for the US government  to use that technology to fight terrorism but is is okay for a foreign government to use it to influence (against the democrats) the election.  Amazingly twisted logic.

TH 

 

 

 

[Publicus]

1 hour ago, midas said:

 

 

"  Putin must know HRC will be elected  "

 

But Putin probably has only just learned (like the rest of us) that Preet Bharara one of the toughest prosecutors in USA has just been appointed to investigate the Foundation. 

 

That would need to be confirmed by the US Attorney himself in the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara whom you mention by name in the post. So get back to me when the U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara himself says he's doing what you say he's supposedly doing.

 

(You also reference Vlad who may know more to do with reality than the rightwing think they themselves do. Someone over on that side just today called Putin a "political master" when Vlad hasn't ever played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail.)

 

Keep in mind a US Attorney is assigned to the judicial district of the US District Court and is directly supervised by US DoJ. A US Attorney is not a cowboy (at least not one appointed by the current administration).

 

So the mass of sensationalist and highly financed rightwhingenut media reporting their prolific wet dreams does not have any validity per se. It hasn't ever had any validity period. When DoJ in Washington confirms the claims made only by rightwhingenoids only, then get back to me.

 

Let us know when the other shoe drops because the rightwhingenoid media has dropped more shoes than Imelda Marcos. Perpetual rightwing political priapism on thinking about the Clintons does cause severe problems in respect of blood flow to the brain.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Publicus
Spacing

[Publicus]

22 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

 

 

"So get back to me when the U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara himself says he's doing what you say he's supposedly doing. "

 

I read it this morning in the online version of one of Britain's  newspapers because I'm currently in Hanoi. The online version of this newspaper was banned by the Thai military two years ago so there is little point in me posting a link to the article I read because readers on this forum in Thailand are unlikely to be able to open it.

But here is the same story from another source

 

 http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/11/exclusive-joint-fbi-us-attorney-probe-of-clinton-foundation-is-underway/

 

I saw those reports of reports of reports in the notorious British print press over there on Fleet Street. 

 

Find it in the USA, specifically, in respected and credible journals such as (but not necessarily limited to) NYT, WaPo, Boston Globe, Christian Science Monitor, Philadelphia Inquirer, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Chicago Tribune, Columbus Post-Dispatch (OH), Louisville Courier Journal, Denver Post, Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Seattle Post Intelligencer, or news organisations such as AP, Reuters, BBC America, CNN etc or online at sites such as Politico but not at the site ZeroHead or other rightwingnut sites. Time magazine type media would be fine too...if you can find it in any of 'em.

 

I can generously wait till you get back from your current visit to Hanoi, which I'd be confident is an otherwise pleasant and/or profitable experience.  (I'd also note it was the poster Midas who make the initial unverified and unconfirmed claim in a post by him.) 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Publicus
Typo

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, thaihome said:

I find it particularly telling that the people who cheered Snowden's exposure of the NSA's system to read terrorists' emails (with the permission of the email system owners) are now cheering Russian sponsorship of the illegal hacks of various US government and private email systems and the attempt to influence the US presidential election through disclosure of the contents those emails.

 

Just shows the hypocrisy of those people.  It's not ok for the US government  to use that technology to fight terrorism but is is okay for a foreign government to use it to influence (against the democrats) the election.  Amazingly twisted logic.

TH 

 

 

 

 

How many terrorist plots have been thwarted through mass surveillance of online activities? Google the question and you will see many credible articles that confirm that it has not stopped any major terrorist attack. Yet people willingly give up their liberties and hand the government carte blanche approval to suck up all their data and keep it stored for however long they choose, and to use it as they see fit.

 

So just to be clear, the US government does not use that techonology to fight terrorism. They use terrorism as a pretence to fool you into thinking they are keeping you safe, while the collect each and every part of your online life for storage and analysis at their discretion.

[Publicus]

 

Definitely a Minority Report of a radically different kind.

 

Or just plain howling at the moon again.

[seedy]

Derogatory post Removed

[GuestHouse]

Quote

Assange's defense team said in a statement that it welcomed the steps to take the WikiLeaks founder's statement, which it said "comes after six years of complete inaction on the part of the Swedish prosecutor."

 

 

Blaming the Swedish investigators for not acting to interview Assange when he himself hid from them in the Ecuadorian embassy is a bit of stretch. 

 

Quote

Assange, 45, fears that if he is extradited to Sweden he will be sent to the United States to be prosecuted for WikiLeaks' publication of secret documents, including reams of U.S. diplomatic cables.

 

 

If it is really extradition he fears, and not the rape charges, he would gladly go to Sweden. 

Under the Extradition Treaty and European Arrest warrant any attempt to extradite him from Sweden would have to first be cleared by a Swedish Court and then cleared by a UK court. He would enjoy an extra level  of judicial review by going to Sweden than he would enjoy in the UK. 

 

And then there is the hole in Assange's argument of the extradition - the United States has made no attempt to extradite Assange. 

 

Quote

Chelsea Manning, an American soldier who passed secret military and State Department documents to WikiLeaks, is serving a 35-year sentence in a military prison.

 

Chelsea Manning is serving time for crimes that he committed in collusion with Assange - Assange allows Manning to take the punishment, while cowering in the Ecuadorian embassy. 

 

 

Quote

Assange faces arrest by British police if he leaves the building and, with the exception of occasional trips to the embassy balcony, has not been outside for years.

 

Well yes, he's wanted on an arrest warrant, the UK police are duty bound to arrest him if he steps out of the embassy. 

The Ecuadorian embassy are duty bound to protect their staff, I hope they are acting in the best interest of their female staff given the presence in the building of a man accused of rape.

 

Quote

In February, a United Nations panel said Assange's stay at the embassy constituted arbitrary detention and he should be freed. The British and Swedish governments have rejected the non-binding findings of the U.N's Working Group on Arbitrary Detention.

 

The "United Nations Panel" that expressed this 'opinion' comprised a team of people within which there were no representatives with any legal expertise. The panel's opinion has not been endorsed by the UN. 

 

---

All that aside, Assange's flight to the embassy of Ecuador is a strange choice if, as he claims, he wishes to defend freedoms of speech, investigation, association and the right to challenge governments. 

Ecuador boasts a repressive government that pays particular attention to denying freedoms of speech, arresting and imprisoning investigative journalists, locking people up for the crime of 'association' and some rather nasty responses to anyone who challenges the Ecuadorian government.

 

What the President of Ecuador does share with Assange is their articulation of hatred of the United States. 

 

Assange acts against the political, military, commercial and diplomatic interests of the United States, he does so by illegally obtaining and transmitting US government, military and diplomatic data. 

 

He should not be at all surprised if the US government respond to him the way they have and will continue to do so. 

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by GuestHouse

[RuamRudy]

7 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

All that aside, Assange's flight to the embassy of Ecuador is a strange choice if, as he claims, he wishes to defend freedoms of speech, investigation, association and the right to challenge governments. 

Ecuador boasts a repressive government that pays particular attention to denying freedoms of speech, arresting and imprisoning investigative journalists, locking people up for the crime of 'association' and some rather nasty responses to anyone who challenges the Ecuadorian government.

 

What the President of Ecuador does share with Assange is their articulation of hatred of the United States. 

 

Assange acts against the political, military, commercial and diplomatic interests of the United States, he does so by illegally obtaining and transmitting US government, military and diplomatic data. 

 

He should not be at all surprised if the US government respond to him the way they have and will continue to do so. 

 

 

While I am not convinced that Assange was/is motivated by a hatred of the US, what matters more are the issues he brought to the public's consciousness. Governments fail us daily, and deliberately. Any attempt to expose their illegal activities should be welcomed and  those who expose them protected - but the demonisation of Assange, Snowden etc is an inevitable response from our corrupted and unaccountable leaders. Certainly I would like to see the same sort of exposure for all governments, but because there is not an equal focus on all does not mean that the US should be protected. With international espionage becoming more sophisticated by the day, I doubt that there were many revelations that were not common knowledge to the enemies of the US.

 

[GuestHouse]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

While I am not convinced that Assange was/is motivated by a hatred of the US, what matters more are the issues he brought to the public's consciousness. Governments fail us daily, and deliberately. Any attempt to expose their illegal activities should be welcomed and  those who expose them protected - but the demonisation of Assange, Snowden etc is an inevitable response from our corrupted and unaccountable leaders. Certainly I would like to see the same sort of exposure for all governments, but because there is not an equal focus on all does not mean that the US should be protected. With international espionage becoming more sophisticated by the day, I doubt that there were many revelations that were not common knowledge to the enemies of the US.

 

 

You conflate Assange and Snowden. 

 

They are completely different cases with different motivations and different legal standings.

 

Assange actions speak sufficiently in and of themselves of his attitudes and motivations.

 

 

[Publicus]

 

Assange is in Putin's back pocket.

 

Assange several years ago publicly stated he'd had the goods on Putin too, that the Russian people would also see their state and government in its sleazy action, no exception in this respect.

 

Then someone reminded Assange what happens to journalists who cross Putin. Suddenly and openly Assange and Putin became BFF, to include Putin giving Assange a television talk show on Moscow television broadcast across Russia.

 

Wikileaks/Assange/Putin sent a certain kind of woman professional employee to Hong Kong to 'escort' Snowden to Russia after Snowden had clandestinely fled the United States. Wikileaks had supposedly been escorting Snowden to Ecuador where the dictator rules with an iron hand but, as it turned out, pres. Correa hadn't ever signed the documents authorising Snowden's entry and stay there. Snowden of course travelled without papers due to the fact Washington had cancelled its passport it had (routinely) issued to Snowden.

 

Snowden was issued papers in Moscow by the Russian government and he has resided continuously in Russia since. Assange had resided in Russia but visited Sweden after having revealed Swedish intelligence monitors the Russian Internet and forwards the intelligence to the United States. The rest of it we well know.

 

Assange continues to be under investigation by the US Department of Justice to include among other super serious laws the Espionage Act, violation of which provides prison sentences in decades, not simply in years. It is certain if Snowden or Assange were to enter the United States they would not be received well.

 

Ecuador has implicated itself in Putin's cyberwarfare against the Democratic Party in this election for the Potus given its close associating of itself with Putin, Assange, Snowden.

 

No one knows how much doctoring or forging Putin has done of the documents he's purloined from the Democratic National Committee and from other components of the Democratic Party of the United States in this election campaign. There is, further, a national security concern that Putin may well have the cyber capability to interfere with the election mechanisms of the United States on November 8th, election day, to include voting machines and other electronic and electro-magnetic voting and vote reporting systems.

 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security among other U.S. departments and agencies of national security are investigating these threats. Yet there are people in the USA and elsewhere who have no concerns about any of this and who instead try to make Assange and Putin seem to be investigators who in their high morality and political purposes expose to the American public unspecified "illegal activities" by its government. Assange only kissed up to Putin and the Russian government.

 

This attitude and approach of the Putin Fanboyz to try to rationalise and justify Putin and Assange (while trying to dismiss Ecuador's role) is in fact a fraud and it is a pernicious deception that tries to establish Assange and Putin as noble in their malicious designs against the political system of the United States and their malevolent purposes against democratic government, politics, processes of the United States. Putin is in fact doing the same in EU countries as he also supports the far right there in elections. Good on UK for pinning down Assange the past several years.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Publicus said:

Good on UK for pinning down Assange the past several years

 

I will happily admit that I do not know enough about the relationship between Assange and Putin to comment constructively on it, but putting aside that particular intrigue, do you not feel that the exposure of various western governments' wrong-doings to public scrutiny is a positive thing. Of course we should also see the ugly truth from Russia etc, better to hold one to account than none.

[Publicus]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I will happily admit that I do not know enough about the relationship between Assange and Putin to comment constructively on it, but putting aside that particular intrigue, do you not feel that the exposure of various western governments' wrong-doings to public scrutiny is a positive thing. Of course we should also see the ugly truth from Russia etc, better to hold one to account than none.

 

You and I have had the privilege of discussing the specific issue already at the thread.

 

That is, all sides exposing much or all would be a mutually assured destruction of each government involved. The mutual unrestricted exposing of state and government secrets, particularly concerning intelligence gathering, disinformation, clandestine operations and the like, is a dangerous business with severe ramifications for the perpetrator who initiates all of it or any of it.

 

I'd noted that when all stones are unturned the snakes bite indiscriminately. Given you like that, then that would be your position concerning these explosive issues. However, most populations do not welcome this and almost all governments involved or affected recognise that an unrestricted public disclosure absent of any or all government self-discipline would produce an international and a global national security anarchy.

 

Citizens of a democracy need to keep a keen vigil on their government for sure and always. No citizenry however and no government want an unlimited or a barely restricted undisciplined free flow of state secrets without regard of national or global security.

 

The current crime of Putin-Assad-Wikileaks is that in conducting espionage against the Democratic National Committee and other components of the Democratic Party -- exclusive of the Republican Party besides -- goes beyond the traditional and customary espionage of information gathering. The actions of Putin-Assad-Wikileaks against the Democratic Party -- only -- are what all intelligence agencies of all governments refer to as "active measures."

 

Active measures of espionage constitute not simply the collection of state/government secrets. It is the active and systematic campaign to actively affect, influence, direct, an outcome of events, policy, systems or programs. In this instance, it is of the election of Potus in this 2016 election year. This is unacceptable except to the Putin-Assange-Wilileaks Fanboyz in the USA and elsewhere. Putin-Assange-Wikileaks do this in the EU, however, this is the first known instance of it against the political system of the United States, and it is directed solely and exclusively against the Democratic Party.

 

It is active measures espionage, i.e., malicious and malevolent measures taken against the United States and its political system and against its democracy -- USA sovereignty, for the purpose of producing specific results sought by a foreign adversary. If you like that -- and you unmistakably do like that, and you actively support and advocate it -- then that would be your Putin-Assange-Wikileaks Fanboy business. Americans except for the Republican Party of 2016 reject it in the absolute.  We make your sinister business against the United States our business in protecting our national security and our national sovereignty.

 

This will lead to much worse for everyone involved to include the USA and Russia, and Ecuador will rightly suffer for it too. Because of the profoundly serious nature of this "active measures" violation of USA sovereignty, Russia will pay and Putin-Assange-Wikileaks-Ecuador will pay dearly. No question of it. Severely.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Publicus
Revision and typos

[slipperylobster]

21 hours ago, midas said:

 

 

"  Putin must know HRC will be elected  "

 

But Putin probably has only just learned (like the rest of us) that Preet Bharara one of the toughest prosecutors in USA has just been appointed to investigate the Foundation. 

 

Hope Assange gets immunity, granted by the US Justice Department...so we can finally rid ourselves of the Clintons.   I am sure he has plenty of damning evidence....enough to knock HRC (the pant suit lady) out of the race.

 

I would be quite willing to support immunity on any charges, if he had the incriminating evidence.

 

Good stuff.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2016 by slipperylobster