Retiring with 16mn Baht

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

If you see further on you'll see that the 10k a month post was a wind up and not true at all.

My mistake, embarrassingly I had to go back to check!

[Naam]

1 hour ago, evilebxxx said:

Regards to swimming business, 10x4x1.5 M, self-made dug-out dirt rebar,, color cement. Rain water feed from house roof. No pump, PH always around 5 meaning clear water.  Cost 30,000

regsrding swimming business, go swim in next klong. no need for digging or spending money

[Johnniey]

12 hours ago, Naam said:

 

"a/c on" means nothing without adding thermostat setting in ºC. i have a car with 550HP which doesn't use fuel on any given weekday...

 

...because i only drive it on sundays mornings   

 

 

Well if you want to be clever, the thermostat setting would mean nothing without the outside temperature in ºC.

 

[Johnniey]

Integrate  -  marry a local and have a couple of kids who will look after you in 25 years wen you've spent all your 16 million.

[Witblitz]

47 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

Integrate  -  marry a local and have a couple of kids who will look after you in 25 years wen you've spent all your 16 million.

Or push you over a balcony when the moneys gone 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, Johnniey said:

Well if you want to be clever, the thermostat setting would mean nothing without the outside temperature in ºC.

 

 

right you are. that applies especially during Thailand's winter when temperatures drop below freezing point.

 

by the way, only an absolute tech ignorant would would ask that "intelligent" question you suggested

 

[Johnniey]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

right you are. that applies especially during Thailand's winter when temperatures drop below freezing point.

 

by the way, only an absolute tech ignorant would would ask that "intelligent" question you suggested

 

What question did I suggest?

 

I know you are not a native speaker but really, try to read/write properly on an English forum. 

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

What question did I suggest?

 

I know you are not a native speaker but really, try to read/write properly on an English forum. 

 

i know you are a poor ignorant that's why i don't dignify your silly questions with an answer 

[Johnniey]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

i know you are a poor ignorant that's why i don't dignify your silly questions with an answer 

 

How rude.  Have the integrity to admit you were wrong - you can't answer the question. 

[meom]

22 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

right you are. that applies especially during Thailand's winter when temperatures drop below freezing point.

 

by the way, only an absolute tech ignorant would would ask that "intelligent" question you suggested

 

 

LOL.

 

I just checked the thermostat setting on the ac in my office.

It has a scale from 1-9. Make me think.

[drbill]

At his age and with his financial status thinking of retirement is a dream or premature senility in my opinion.

Many of us who are semiretired and decades older with 20 or more times his savings and a guaranteed several M

baht yearly income are concerned about the future and our finances. I doubt that he is an entrepreneur or is savy

in financial affairs based on your post. He's not a penniless street person. My advice would be to work ,save,try to earn more

and come to Thailand for holiday and enjoyment.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the answers above reflect the reality of the situation faced by the OP's friend:

 

Although 16 million baht sounds like a lot, it's not really so much if that's ALL a person expects to have for his financial resources in the many years ahead. With that as his only financial resources, I'd say the chances of success would be borderline, depending on 1) how frugal or extravagant a lifestyle the friend intends to live, and 2] how long he will end up living.

 

I know I can live here in BKK on roughly $2,000 U.S. per month -- renting a very affordably priced apartment in a good area (lucky for me), married with a working, frugal wife, no kids, live a comfortable lifestyle, but we don't spend a lot on expensive capital purchases because we have the basic things we want and need. (Making bad choices and getting involved with the wrong Thai woman could easily see his savings quickly and substantially depleted).

 

But, I'm not planning my financial future on a budget of ONLY $2,000 U.S. per month, because prices will rise, health insurance will get more expensive, life may throw unexpected curves, etc etc.  So in my case, beyond the basic amount we spend right now, I have for the future added amounts both from private retirement funds (which continue to grow and I haven't tapped yet) and U.S. Social Security (which I'm still a few years away from being eligible for).

 

So, I could live on the expectation of spending $2,000 U.S. per month for the time being. But I wouldn't want to plan my financial future on the expectation that I'd HAVE to live on no more than $2,000 U.S. per month for the rest of my life. And unfortunately for the OP's friend, it sounds like the 16 million is his ONLY financial resource, period.

 

16 million baht = $470,000 U.S. -- over 20 years = $23,500 per year, or roughly $2,000 per month.  Of course, that's not considering any earning potential from the original funds, the results of which would depend on the OP's friend's success or lack thereof in investing.

 

 

 

[berybert]

 

1 hour ago, drbill said:

At his age and with his financial status thinking of retirement is a dream or premature senility in my opinion.

Many of us who are semiretired and decades older with 20 or more times his savings and a guaranteed several M

baht yearly income are concerned about the future and our finances. I doubt that he is an entrepreneur or is savy

in financial affairs based on your post. He's not a penniless street person. My advice would be to work ,save,try to earn more

and come to Thailand for holiday and enjoyment.

So you have over 300 million baht in the bank, earn several million baht a year, are at least 70 and you still worry about where the next meal is coming from ?

You must be a blast on a night out. Or maybe you don't have nights out. Don't want to waste any of  those baht. They might come in handy when you're in your 100's

[mania]

Really the usual how long is a piece of string request

 

We will get the frugal/logical folks explaining how it is not nearly enough for a good/ safe (in their opinion) life

 

Then....

We will get the go for it from those that did & are happy at least for now ? & maybe forever? depending

on exit from life date & expectations of comforts.

 

I can say I have only known 2 frugal people who use to preach for example how much better it was to drink say

a plain coffee rather than a special coffee that costs 40% more. Reasoning that over many years of drinking coffee

the savings in this treat being denied alone would greatly help their future security.

 

Sadly those folks both died before 40

One from spinal cancer the other from a work related helicopter crash

 

Seeing things like this made me also realize there is always going to be both

being too careful & being not careful enough. Sadly there is no exact formula as we

do not know our own exit dates. If these two did surely they would have treated themselves better

while alive.

 

I know folks who did well will say.... "well just go make enough to have all you want while your alive".

Yes true but many do not have that talent...This person in the OP sounds like this type

Tired of slaving & ready to throw the dice

 

All I can say is good luck in what ever he decides.... have his cake now? risk hunger later or.....

maybe have his better security assured cake later

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EddieAnd]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I think the answers above reflect the reality of the situation faced by the OP's friend:

 

Although 16 million baht sounds like a lot, it's not really so much if that's ALL a person expects to have for his financial resources in the many years ahead. With that as his only financial resources, I'd say the chances of success would be borderline, depending on 1) how frugal or extravagant a lifestyle the friend intends to live, and 2] how long he will end up living.

 

I know I can live here in BKK on roughly $2,000 U.S. per month -- renting a very affordably priced apartment in a good area (lucky for me), married with a working, frugal wife, no kids, live a comfortable lifestyle, but we don't spend a lot on expensive capital purchases because we have the basic things we want and need. (Making bad choices and getting involved with the wrong Thai woman could easily see his savings quickly and substantially depleted).

 

But, I'm not planning my financial future on a budget of ONLY $2,000 U.S. per month, because prices will rise, health insurance will get more expensive, life may throw unexpected curves, etc etc.  So in my case, beyond the basic amount we spend right now, I have for the future added amounts both from private retirement funds (which continue to grow and I haven't tapped yet) and U.S. Social Security (which I'm still a few years away from being eligible for).

 

So, I could live on the expectation of spending $2,000 U.S. per month for the time being. But I wouldn't want to plan my financial future on the expectation that I'd HAVE to live on no more than $2,000 U.S. per month for the rest of my life. And unfortunately for the OP's friend, it sounds like the 16 million is his ONLY financial resource, period.

 

16 million baht = $470,000 U.S. -- over 20 years = $23,500 per year, or roughly $2,000 per month.  Of course, that's not considering any earning potential from the original funds, the results of which would depend on the OP's friend's success or lack thereof in investing.

 

 

 

I don't agree. There wouldn't be too many people with that amount of liquid cash. The working man usually would not save that amount in a lifetime. Most people with money that you are talking about either got it given to them by their parents who were probably hard workers and were fortunate enough to get a substantial amount of land in the pre rentier years or they used that inheritance to build a property portfolio. Some of you probably got your money from the incredibly overpriced stock market and even then used borrowings to buy stock.... but that is not the working man ... oh and one more salient point .... money is valueless.....the USA just keeps printing USD... (fraudsters, Counterfeiters... Banksters)....give me 470,000 dollars and I show you a wonderful semi retirement....Snobs...( I guess I sound a little angry... but I don't like silver spooned people talking crap)

[sezze]

1 hour ago, mania said:

Really the usual how long is a piece of string request

 

We will get the frugal/logical folks explaining how it is not nearly enough for a good/ safe (in their opinion) life

 

Then....

We will get the go for it from those that did & are happy at least for now ? & maybe forever? depending

on exit from life date & expectations of comforts.

 

I can say I have only known 2 frugal people who use to preach for example how much better it was to drink say

a plain coffee rather than a special coffee that costs 40% more. Reasoning that over many years of drinking coffee

the savings in this treat being denied alone would greatly help their future security.

 

Sadly those folks both died before 40

One from spinal cancer the other from a work related helicopter crash

 

Seeing things like this made me also realize there is always going to be both

being too careful & being not careful enough. Sadly there is no exact formula as we

do not know our own exit dates. If these two did surely they would have treated themselves better

while alive.

 

I know folks who did well will say.... "well just go make enough to have all you want while your alive".

Yes true but many do not have that talent...This person in the OP sounds like this type

Tired of slaving & ready to throw the dice

 

All I can say is good luck in what ever he decides.... have his cake now? risk hunger later or.....

maybe have his better security assured cake later

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure , but he comes here to ask opinions . We are only able to give our answers , and there is no correct answer , because it is possible but maybe not in the way he wants , or for him enough for his needs .

You have people spending 10k a day without problem and i personally know people living in Thailand on 15k a month . With more money you can have a lot more , but do you want it or not is just a personal choice .

What he does have to calculate in is the fact that he's 50 so he is probably looking at a few more years on this planet . He has to calculate in the inflationrate , which can be low to extremely high ( something you cannot tell 5 years in front ) .

[EddieAnd]

On 8/17/2016 at 2:43 AM, JaiLai said:

It's only approx 20K baht a day, not beyond the realms of possibilities....

20,000 a day... No Way....unless you are continually building a house or paying business bills ... then ok but that would be running a business......Average thai salary I think ... and you say you spend it a day....whateva!

[DrDave]

4 hours ago, EddieAnd said:

I don't agree. There wouldn't be too many people with that amount of liquid cash. The working man usually would not save that amount in a lifetime. Most people with money that you are talking about either got it given to them by their parents who were probably hard workers and were fortunate enough to get a substantial amount of land in the pre rentier years or they used that inheritance to build a property portfolio. Some of you probably got your money from the incredibly overpriced stock market and even then used borrowings to buy stock.... but that is not the working man ... oh and one more salient point .... money is valueless.....the USA just keeps printing USD... (fraudsters, Counterfeiters... Banksters)....give me 470,000 dollars and I show you a wonderful semi retirement....Snobs...( I guess I sound a little angry... but I don't like silver spooned people talking crap)

 

Your assumption that anyone that is well off in their retirement is "silver spooned" is way off the mark.

There are quite a few members here, including myself,  who have built a solid financial footing starting with absolutely nothing. No inheritance, no family land, etc. Maybe we were hard workers, as you say. Just maybe, we had the foresight to set our life goals early, develop and then execute a plan that allowed us to reach our goals. It takes a lot of discipline, frugality, and sometimes a little risk-taking to be able to reach goals that some may consider a stretch.  But people from all walks of life do it every day.  And what separates the "working man", as you call him, from anyone else? Doesn't everyone have the capacity to set goals, make a plan, and execute that plan, whatever it might be? While most people have the capacity, many don't have the discipline, and are unwilling to sacrifice today for the benefits to be reaped in the future. I have quite a few friends with very high-paying jobs, but no real money saved for retirement. Their only equity lies in their homes, and they will most likely need to work until they're 66 years old and retire with a much-reduced lifestyle, but that's obviously the choice they made while spending rather than saving and investing.  I also have friends who have historically had relatively low-paying jobs, and have managed to plan and save for a very comfortable retirement.

 

Current fashion (at least in the US) is to demonize anyone who has successfully navigated their way to financial security, and in retrospect blame everyone and everything except themselves for their own failure to attain whatever level of financial success they now hope to have achieved. 

 

You're familiar with the Ant and Grasshopper fable, aren't you? 

[DUS]

9 hours ago, drbill said:

Many of us who are semiretired and decades older with 20 or more times his savings and a guaranteed several M

baht yearly income are concerned about the future and our finances. (...) 

My advice would be to work ,save,try to earn more

and come to Thailand for holiday and enjoyment.

 

I couldn´t agree more with you on your last point and recommendation. This is the one I gave. Mind you, when reading your post I felt rather sorry for you and your rich companions. If you worry financially even with hundreds of million in the bank and a high 7 digit yearly income then you must surely be living a rather sad life, at least a life I do not envy you for despite all the money you have. 

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, EddieAnd said:

I don't agree. There wouldn't be too many people with that amount of liquid cash. The working man usually would not save that amount in a lifetime. Most people with money that you are talking about either got it given to them by their parents who were probably hard workers and were fortunate enough to get a substantial amount of land in the pre rentier years or they used that inheritance to build a property portfolio. Some of you probably got your money from the incredibly overpriced stock market and even then used borrowings to buy stock.... but that is not the working man ... oh and one more salient point .... money is valueless.....the USA just keeps printing USD... (fraudsters, Counterfeiters... Banksters)....give me 470,000 dollars and I show you a wonderful semi retirement....Snobs...( I guess I sound a little angry... but I don't like silver spooned people talking crap)

 

There's a shed loads of retired and divorced Brits (presumably other nationalities also) who sold property in the UK and moved to Thailand, a half mill. US is not a huge amount given the price of the average property in the UK is around USD 300k. (£200k x 1.5 for simplicity)

[amykat]

9 hours ago, EddieAnd said:

.. oh and one more salient point .... money is valueless.....the USA just keeps printing USD... (fraudsters, Counterfeiters... Banksters)....

 

Buying things with money has been working out for me pretty well my whole life. I am going to keep using that method and have been stock piling it for a rainy day.   What do you use to buy things?

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, amykat said:

 

Buying things with money has been working out for me pretty well my whole life. I am going to keep using that method and have been stock piling it for a rainy day.   What do you use to buy things?

I hear Eddie is big into barter trade. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just as an example, a common guide in retirement planning is that a working age person should plan on not withdrawing more than about 4% per year of their overall savings in retirement -- if they expect it to last for their remaining lifetime.

 

So, if such a person started out today with $500,000 U.S. -- which is a larger amount than the OP's friend has right now -- that 4% drawdown rate would yield an annual income of about $20,000 per year, or $1,666 per month (a bit under 57,000b per month).

 

A person certainly can live on that amount per month in Thailand. But, not richly. And that assumes no big capital expense drawdowns, etc etc. So, as I said above, it's borderline. Could work out OK, but the person would need to be careful about their funds, and live within their means. Because, no other sources of backup income to rely on.

 

And again, a lot depends on what the OP's friend does with the 16M during his "retirement" years. If he simply is relying on the market value of stocks and gets caught in a stock market downturn, that could quickly and substantially lower the value of his nest egg. But of the flip side, if he invests the money in something that produces a reliable income stream not tied to stock market values, then that's going to produce a better result.

[Craig krup]

On 8/15/2016 at 2:40 AM, Henryford said:

CM is right it can be done, living on say 50,000 a month, but it's hard to be disciplined at aged 50. Buying a decent place to live could cost 4 million (or much more in rent). If he has a pension coming in at 65+ he will be OK otherwise he will run out of cash at @ 70.

 

Please God, let's not have another discussion about the supposed no-brainer nature of buying "Because then you don't have to pay rent, rent's just dead money...."

 

The very last thing anyone should do is buy a property. 

 

Done to death - 

 

 

[Craig krup]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And again, a lot depends on what the OP's friend does with the 16M during his "retirement" years. If he simply is relying on the market value of stocks and gets caught in a stock market downturn, that could quickly and substantially lower the value of his nest egg. But of the flip side, if he invests the money in something that produces a reliable income stream not tied to stock market values, then that's going to produce a better result.

 

If he's retired why would he worry about the "market value" of his investments? All that matters is the value to him in baht of the dividends or interest he receives. Dividends in widely diversified collective investments rarely get cut much, and if you're in foreign and large cap UK shares the fall in the pound is meaningless because nearly all your investment earnings are paid in other currencies and turned into pounds. 

[Scotwight]

7 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

Please God, let's not have another discussion about the supposed no-brainer nature of buying "Because then you don't have to pay rent, rent's just dead money...."

 

The very last thing anyone should do is buy a property. 

 

Done to death - 

 

 

Rent is super cheap in Thailand.  I have no idea why anyone would buy.

[Craig krup]

19 hours ago, mania said:

"...there is always going to be both being too careful & being not careful enough.

 

True, but 1) the risks are asymmetric, and 2) diminishing marginal utility again pushes you towards dying with money.

 

As you glance to the right and realize there was a truck with no lights on in the gap you've only just got time to think, "F*** I could have smoked" and there's no time left for, "And b******d I've still got money in the bank". Spending fifteen years dying poor having spent too much is going to sting more. 

 

Besides, a diminishing marginal utility graph tells you that a 140,000 baht scooter is better than a 70,000 baht one, but it isn't quite twice as good. Whenever you spend more than what a frugal Dougal would spend on anything you're chucking a lot of extra cash into the situation for comparatively modest benefits. Grasping superficial people can't see this - indeed, maybe for them the utility graph really does head north east for longer - but for anyone with a reading age beyond 14 a Dacia Sandero delivers 80% of what a top of the range BMW delivers - as a mode of transport - for a tenth of the cost.   

[Naam]

13 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Rent is super cheap in Thailand.  I have no idea why anyone would buy.

i have no idea why anyone would rent.

[Naam]

9 hours ago, amykat said:

 

Buying things with money has been working out for me pretty well my whole life. I am going to keep using that method and have been stock piling it for a rainy day.   What do you use to buy things?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

If he's retired why would he worry about the "market value" of his investments? All that matters is the value to him in baht of the dividends or interest he receives. Dividends in widely diversified collective investments rarely get cut much, and if you're in foreign and large cap UK shares the fall in the pound is meaningless because nearly all your investment earnings are paid in other currencies and turned into pounds. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your general comment. But I mentioned the issue of market value because....

 

Some people invest in the stock market in individual securities or funds that do NOT pay dividends or at least any appreciable amount of them. And thus, their ability to draw down on their retirement funds is heavily impacted by the actual market/cash value in their account, whether up or down.

 

For my retirement stock investments now, which are entirely self directed, they're entirely in dividend paying or similar securities that have long track records of stable and rising dividend payments. I learned to want a stable, secure income source regardless of the market ups or downs.

 

But when I first got into the stock market many years ago, didn't know much of anything and let a very big and well-known U.S. brokerage direct my investments, the portfolio of stocks they chose for me was very minimal in terms of dividends.

 

Their entire pitch to me, at the time I allowed them to invest my funds on my behalf, was that historically the market values of the market and its indexes have risen X% on average over the past 20/30/50 years. So while the year to year amounts can vary, you can plan your long-term assumptions based on those kinds of yearly gains.

 

Of course, that was back in 2007 and 2008, and within 1-2 years, I quickly saw the value of the portfolio the brokerage had assembled for me -- supposedly a low-risk retirement portfolio -- fall by almost half. And if I had had to be selling my shares back then at deflated prices just to fund my monthly expenses, it would have been brutal.

 

Fortunately, I didn't need the money then for living, and I quickly kicked the brokerage to the curb and began learning and investing on my own, and have done very well since and recovered with the good market of past years.

 

But, it seems to me, there are still a lot of reputable financial advisors out there who focus on the market value perspective. What the brokerage advisors back then never told me, and we never even discussed the issue, is that a large part of the overall market total returns, in the S&P 500 for example over the decades, has come from dividend payouts and compounding, and not so much from capital gains alone.

 

Thus, given that history, I never assume that people, especially novices, are necessarily going to be invested in holdings that protect them from the constant vagaries of stock market values rising and falling. But they should!

Edited August 18, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK