Sleep your way to fat loss!

dontoearth · October 1, 2016

48 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

Not at my gym.

Sounds like total fantasy combined with denial. People are always dropping out of and disappearing from gyms. Do you think vampires are taking them out? Or do you think they are having other issues? Perhaps having trouble with exercise and weight loss? yeah! That might be it. Or are you going to tell us that you have never had a single person disappear or drop out from your imaginary gym?

dontoearth · October 1, 2016

59 minutes ago, Strange said:

Plenty.

Well, end of the day, if you want surgery, go for it.

Did you read the article at all? And why would you think I want surgery. I am not obese!

Strange · October 1, 2016

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

1 hour ago, Strange said:

The article JT posted a while back, the guy had surgery to reduce the size of his stomach limiting what he can eat.

The same thing can be done by just limiting what you eat in the first place.

I suppose the big difference is that one method requires willpower, the other doesn't.

lol but you know what?

Its crazy to me that someone will have the willpower to undergo surgery to overcome their obesity, when I honestly believe that if they take the same drive and willpower used to put themselves through that, and apply it to their diet and exercise, they can achieve so much more.

tropo · October 1, 2016

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

I am confused by your post.

You say you have made progress? You mean you are losing weight ?

You say you have no portion control or diet plan? Does that mean you eat the same as before you started on a weightloss goal ?

You say you leave your exercise to a professional ? Does that mean you have a physical trainer and are exercising regularly?

I am of the calories and movement group. That is my song. I have seen it work every time when combined with dedication.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found his (dontoearth) post nonsensical, apart from being rude too and he even had to add in some rhymes for good effect.

He's not in the diet and exercise club (or is he?). What if I told him there is no cure for obesity. There isn't really. If you eat too much and don't move, you will get fat and then obese over time, even the most genetically gifted among us. The only way to stay in good shape is to eat properly and exercise until the day we die. Yikes! No one really wants to hear that. A person who diets and gets down to a normal weight and then shoots up again hasn't failed. He succeeded, then chose to be fat instead. He couldn't handle the restrictions of the lifestyle that keeps him slim.

People like myself and Robblok that do ridiculous amounts of exercise will also get fat if we stop exercising and taking care of what we eat.

Genetically gifted people are often cursed when they get older. They are so used to everything coming easily when they are young that they are often lazy when they are older. It's usually the average (or lower) people who work hardest to improve.

On average people lose about 5lbs of muscle per decade over the age of 30 and gain 10lbs of fat... without even trying. When you get to 50 everything starts to break down - fast! It's more important to exercise when your over 50 than at any other age.

You're looking for an easy way to stay in shape as you age? Keep looking, you won't find it here. It requires drive and determination.

I don't want to hear about all those unfortunate people with genetic defects that make it impossible to lose fat. We're not doctors. Those people need special medical supervision. We're preaching to the average Joe who is not sick and is capable of doing some exercise.

Jingthing · October 1, 2016

4 minutes ago, Strange said:

lol but you know what?

Its crazy to me that someone will have the willpower to undergo surgery to overcome their obesity, when I honestly believe that if they take the same drive and willpower used to put themselves through that, and apply it to their diet and exercise, they can achieve so much more.

ghrelin

dontoearth · October 1, 2016

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

These morality arguments here are endless. In my view, to suggest the health issues of overweight and obesity are only about personal will power and that weight control is only about simple (more like simple MINDED) math have no place on this forum. But instead, the insults and the moral crusade POV DOMINATES this forum. That's a reason I am not active on this forum recently. It's more like a nasty comment section on an article about obesity on the general web rather than a serious space about overweight/obesity related health topics.

In other words, it's a DAMAGING place for actual people dealing with these issues, rather than a helpful space. Sure, you'll get people disagreeing, but that means nothing. Clearly a significant percentage of Thaivisa have issues with overweight/obesity but only a tiny percentage bother to post on this forum. Because it's a MEAN AND NASTY space dominated by morality crusading and science denial.

I'll share this article again for readers interested in more realistic way to see the health issues of overweight/obesity than the endless ignorant, and not at all HELPFUL, morality lectures --

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/26/bariatric-surgery-the-solution-to-obesity?mbid=synd_digg

Cheers.

You hit it on the head! This forum is being dominated by a few morality crusaders and science deniers. It isn't helpful to hear the same posters express the same opinions again and again as if those opinions would finally become facts as a result. I have gleaned a few useful things from this forum.

I didn't know they had moved so far along with surgery solutions.

I had never heard of the Keto diet.

I didn't know serious obesity professionals had linked insulin resistance to obesity.

Fasting is really taking off as an approach to beat the insulin resistance and the set point problems aggravated by those still advocating eat less move more.

So I did learn a few things. However, the general tone of the preachers is making me think that being inactive is best. Trying to bring forward any new or useful knowledge is meeting with really high level of resistance here.

tropo · October 1, 2016

3 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

Edited October 1, 2016 by tropo

dontoearth · October 1, 2016

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

I have asked for details and you refuse to tell us how you have achieved your success? I do not understand you.

I saw your nasty and unpleasant response to JingThing earlier. You are not someone I would ever care to talk too.

Strange · October 1, 2016

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

17 minutes ago, Strange said:

lol but you know what?

Its crazy to me that someone will have the willpower to undergo surgery to overcome their obesity, when I honestly believe that if they take the same drive and willpower used to put themselves through that, and apply it to their diet and exercise, they can achieve so much more.

ghrelin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghrelin

Quote

When the stomach is empty, ghrelin is secreted. When the stomach is stretched, secretion stops.^a It acts on hypothalamic brain cells both to increase hunger, and to increase gastric acid secretion and gastrointestinal motility to prepare the body for food intake.^[7]

I get it what you are saying.

Stomach gets used to food. You take away food. Stomach hungry.

In time (TIME!!) the body will acclimate.

tropo · October 1, 2016

3 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     You hit it on the head! This forum is being dominated by a few morality crusaders and science deniers. It isn't helpful to hear the same posters express the same opinions again and again as if those opinions would finally become facts as a result. I have gleaned a few useful things from this forum.

      I didn't know they had moved so far along with surgery solutions.

      I had never heard of the Keto diet.

      I didn't know serious obesity professionals had linked insulin resistance to obesity.

      Fasting is really taking off as an approach to beat the insulin resistance and the set point problems aggravated by those still advocating eat less move more.

      So I did learn a few things. However, the general tone of the preachers is making me think that being inactive is best. Trying to bring forward any new or useful knowledge is meeting with really high level of resistance here.

You're doing a lot of crusading yourself. If you chastise others as "science deniers" then you must think yourself quite clued up about the science of fat loss...

Fair enough, but what you wrote next was unbelievable. You're commenting in a weight loss forum but never heard of a keto diet. It's nearly 100 years old! It's nearly ancient.

You also state you didn't know insulin resistance is linked to obesity? That's hard to believe you don't know about this link. It's nearly universally discussed in scientific weight loss articles these days.

ClutchClark · October 1, 2016

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

I saw your nasty and unpleasant response to JingThing earlier. You are not someone I would ever care to talk too.

Huh ?

I like JT. I seldom agree with him but he presents an often unique view and approach to a subject. I admire JT always defends the underdog and I think some of that motovation is because of the way things used to be for gay males when he was growing up. It has defined much in his character.

As for my question to you, I simply asked you to expound on your weight loss success since your post was unclear about your diet & exercise regimen. If you need to keep it some secret then I really question why you are on a forum about weight loss when its a topic most all of us are dealing with as we age and our metabolism or mobility slow down. But if you need to keep it a secret then OK.

Hopefully you have time for exercise and are not spending too much time reading the whacky science aspect because that does not burn calories.

Cheers

ClutchClark · October 1, 2016

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

I saw your nasty and unpleasant response to JingThing earlier. You are not someone I would ever care to talk too.

Huh ?

I like JT. I seldom agree with him but he presents an often unique view and approach to a subject. I admire JT as he always defends the "perceived" underdog and I think some of that motivation is because of the way things used to be for gay males when he was growing up. It has defined much in his character.

As for my question to you, I simply asked you to expound on your weight loss success since your post was unclear about your diet & exercise regimen. If you need to keep it some secret then I really question why you are on a forum about weight loss when its a topic most all of us are dealing with as we age and our metabolism or mobility slow down. But if you need to keep it a secret then OK.

Hopefully you have time for exercise and are not spending too much time reading the whacky science aspect because that does not burn calories.

Cheers

ClutchClark · October 1, 2016

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

I saw your nasty and unpleasant response to JingThing earlier. You are not someone I would ever care to talk too.

Huh ?

I like JT. I seldom agree with him but he presents an often unique view and approach to a subject. I admire JT as he always defends the "perceived" underdog and I think some of that motivation is because of the way things used to be for gay males when he was growing up. It has defined much in his character.

As for my question to you, I simply asked you to expound on your weight loss success since your post was unclear about your diet & exercise regimen. If you need to keep it some secret then I really question why you are on a forum about weight loss when its a topic most all of us are dealing with as we age and our metabolism or mobility slow down. But if you need to keep it a secret then OK.

Hopefully you have time for exercise and are not spending too much time reading the whacky science aspect because that does not burn calories.

Cheers

robblok · October 2, 2016

10 hours ago, dontoearth said:

      I think only one or two posters in this whole forum have said they are happy with being fat and giving up...and only or two have said there is no hope. so I have no idea WHO THE HELL you are preaching too...

      I am finding that many on this forum know only one tune.

      They sing it loud, they sing it strong, sing it proud, they sing it LONG!

      but it is really a bad song of some dearly held opinions that are not fairing well in the world of science.

      I am sick to death of the eat less move more crowd. Pepsi, McDonald's and Frito-Lay love you! Now move on!

      People that are looking for deeper answers are not looking for excuses they are looking for better answers. That is what propels society forward and how we make progress. While no one in here is blaming the obesity on old women at the edge of town that practice witchcraft or the man that lives in the woods that is a sorcerer, they are not moving forward much further than that if they believe the whole problem in the whole world is one of will power. This is complete nonsense.

      Professionals in the field are indeed amazed that the more general medical community still peddles this load of crap. And why the public buys it is beyond me? ???? It really does seem that they have been wrong long enough now that no one would believe this crap and even less people would try to peddle it.

      I have made lots of progress but have no portion control and no particular diet plan.

      I leave the exercise program to a professional. It is beyond my field of expertise.

      I have no intention of giving up.

     Your constant harping on this leads me to believe...perhaps...well you guess what I am thinking.

Seems your the one crazy

Your exercising.. you taken charge of your food.. and guess what your losing your weight. Why do you try to discredit something that works for you ?

Did you change what you eat ? yes / no

Did you start to exercise yes / no

Did you lose weight yes / no

Its quite simple.. eat less move more and eating better helps too (no more processed crap).

There is evidence of people losing weight on a twinky diet.. so eating less works. Personally i prefer to eat healthy but in the end eating less and moving more works.

Plenty of experiments all show that eating less works.. I have yet to find one that shows it does not work.

Now your researchers.. are standing alone in their field while the world is still saying move more eat less.. and don't compare them with geniuses.. i would rather compare them with the likes of medicine men / witch dokters. Their theories are not accepted and unproven. If proven with peer reviewed research these guys would be vindicated.. but they are not. Maybe they are too afraid to publish peer reviewed research.. it will destroy their rep on the internet.

Now are there other factors.. sure.. but eating less and exercising works and after that you can finetune what you eat and add supplements if needed. But to not do anything and use the research as an excuse is what I go against. So yes I am a preacher because the crap that posts is always posted in a way away from taking action yourself.

Keto.. good its changing what you eat.. its taking action.. exactly what I like

Insulin resistance.. yes.. everyone should know about it.. knowing that too much carbs can cause it also aging but that exercise.. less carbs help to reverse it.

But that is a whole other approach of moaning that we are destined to be fat and its out of our control. Once you take charge and find out what works for you i got respect. So yes I have respect for you.. you took charge ... changed things.

However how JT and some others show the topics its more used as an excuse not to do anything IMHO and moving away from own responsibility to make changes.

For obese its their own responsibility to make changes.

robblok · October 2, 2016

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15208835

Just some info on chromium piconate and that is helps against insulin resistance.

Jingthing · October 2, 2016

4 hours ago, robblok said:

...

However how JT and some others show the topics its more used as an excuse not to do anything IMHO and moving away from own responsibility to make changes.

...

There he goes again, when in doubt this robblok character resorts to personally directed insults and using me as his scapegoat. Not appreciated, dude.

As far as responsibility, I will say this.

The unscientific morality preaching POV here have NEVER adequately addressed the FACT that is impossible to refute because it is in FACT a FACT -- the vast majority of people dealing with obesity that lose weight do NOT maintain that loss long term.

Often it backfires to an even heavier weight than the start point. Also, it is very common for people dealing with chronic obesity to have gone through that cycle MANY times over their lifetimes. Also, it is a scientific FACT that repeated YOYO diet and regain cycles is more harmful to overall health than actually just staying at a heavier weight without the YOYOs.

So to people that have tried very very hard and failed multiple times (again, keep in mind the FACT the vast majority of people dealing with obesity do not keep off weight loss long term) what would the IRRATIONAL morality preaching POV have them do then? Keep repeating the SAME destructive cycle more, damaging their health more? How is that RATIONAL? How is that RESPONSIBLE? In my view, that kind of rigid DOGMA is potentially VERY HARMFUL.

I would assert at that point there is a strong case that it would MORE RESPONSIBLE for such people to either accept a heavier weight OR seek SCIENTIFIC methods that have a MASSIVELY higher success rate than conventional diet/exercise methods. (Basically, in our current times, that would be surgery.)

I know people are always looking for the holy grail of diet/exercise methods. Personally, I think that does not exist. But the "diet" industry will keep trying to SELL IT, because there is big money in that, as you've got a population of people that will (statistically speaking) overwhelmingly have the problem chronically for life.

To add the diet/exercise morality preaching POV does NOT own morality. There are strong moral arguments for the point I made above that from my POV are MORE MORAL than the diet/exercise "will power is everything" preacher POV. This is a HEALTH FORUM. Surely what is best for people's long term HEALTH trumps the dated, unscientific, unsupportable positions of the diet/exercise morality preaching POV. (They can NEVER adequately address the truth about the massive long term failure rates only with morality preaching.) Preaching that people dealing with obesity should subject themselves to a frustrating cycle of YOYO diets is rather CRUEL actually. Disgustingly so. How is cruelty moral?

Edited October 2, 2016 by Jingthing

Luckysilk · October 2, 2016

Each kilo of fat is 7700 calories, rather simple really, reduce intake and maxizmise exercise and maybe put down the bowl of ice cream once in awhile.

Seeing morbidly obese people disgusts me, just full of excuses and Dr. google to justify their size. Can't keep it off long term is bogus they fall back into their lazy lifestyle.

Jingthing · October 2, 2016

3 minutes ago, Luckysilk said:

Each kilo of fat is 7700 calories, rather simple really, reduce intake and maxizmise exercise and maybe put down the bowl of ice cream once in awhile.

Seeing morbidly obese people disgusts me, just full of excuses and Dr. google to justify their size. Can't keep it off long term is bogus they fall back into their lazy lifestyle.

That is so wrong. Not all calories are the same because they come from different foods, and the body processes different foods differently. That's basic science.

I understand that people dealing with extreme obesity are unattractive. But this is a health forum and do you think it's HELPFUL to the actual people dealing with that to hear about your DISGUST ... which they already know about, and most likely feel it about themselves as well?

The morality preaching POV, the it's ONLY about will power POV -- why even have a forum about this if that's all this is about?

You could just have one locked headline ...

Overweight or Obese? Eat Less / Move More / If you fail, you lack willpower and you're a disgusting ugly human being

Next ...

Edited October 2, 2016 by Jingthing

Luckysilk · October 2, 2016

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That is so wrong. Not all calories are the same because they come from different foods, and the body processes different foods differently. That's basic science.

I understand that people dealing with extreme obesity are unattractive. But this is a health forum and do you think it's HELPFUL to the actual people dealing with that to hear about your DISGUST ... which they already know about, and most likely feel it about themselves as well?

Different foods digested differently, well then eat properly and learn which foods you should be eating.

Yes I do - Shame them the same way smokers have been.

It's time insurance companies and government health care services do the same.

Jingthing · October 2, 2016

2 minutes ago, Luckysilk said:

Different foods digested differently, well then eat properly and learn which foods you should be eating.

Yes I do - Shame them the same way smokers have been.

It's time insurance companies and government health care services do the same.

I want to remind you now that explicit fat shaming is against forum rules on this HEALTH forum. Perhaps you didn't know. Now you do. No, I'm not a moderator but I'm being HELPFUL here to inform you.

Your POV is a great example of how this "health" forum is dominated by comments that are more apt for a nasty COMMENT section on the general internet.

Think about it dudes. There must be THOUSANDS of Thaivisa members dealing with overweight and obesity yet only a VERY SMALL number bother to post here. And why should they want to? When they know they'll just be attacked and given morality preaching.

Imagine an obese people doing to a doctor and the doctor says, you're obese, eat less, move more ...

Do you think that is new information to the patient?

Edited October 2, 2016 by Jingthing

robblok · October 2, 2016

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There he goes again, when in doubt this robblok character resorts to personally directed insults and using me as his scapegoat. Not appreciated, dude.

As far as responsibility, I will say this.

The unscientific morality preaching POV here have NEVER adequately addressed the FACT that is impossible to refute because it is in FACT a FACT -- the vast majority of people dealing with obesity that lose weight do NOT maintain that loss long term.

Often it backfires to an even heavier weight than the start point. Also, it is very common for people dealing with chronic obesity to have gone through that cycle MANY times over their lifetimes. Also, it is a scientific FACT that repeated YOYO diet and regain cycles is more harmful to overall health than actually just staying at a heavier weight without the YOYOs.

So to people that have tried very very hard and failed multiple times (again, keep in mind the FACT the vast majority of people dealing with obesity do not keep off weight loss long term) what would the IRRATIONAL morality preaching POV have them do then? Keep repeating the SAME destructive cycle more, damaging their health more? How is that RATIONAL? How is that RESPONSIBLE? In my view, that kind of rigid DOGMA is potentially VERY HARMFUL.

I would assert at that point there is a strong case that it would MORE RESPONSIBLE for such people to either accept a heavier weight OR seek SCIENTIFIC methods that have a MASSIVELY higher success rate than conventional diet/exercise methods. (Basically, in our current times, that would be surgery.)

I know people are always looking for the holy grail of diet/exercise methods. Personally, I think that does not exist. But the "diet" industry will keep trying to SELL IT, because there is big money in that, as you've got a population of people that will (statistically speaking) overwhelmingly have the problem chronically for life.

To add the diet/exercise morality preaching POV does NOT own morality. There are strong moral arguments for the point I made above that from my POV are MORE MORAL than the diet/exercise "will power is everything" preacher POV. This is a HEALTH FORUM. Surely what is best for people's long term HEALTH trumps the dated, unscientific, unsupportable positions of the diet/exercise morality preaching POV. (They can NEVER adequately address the truth about the massive long term failure rates only with morality preaching.) Preaching that people dealing with obesity should subject themselves to a frustrating cycle of YOYO diets is rather CRUEL actually. Disgustingly so. How is cruelty moral?

Long term failure is easily explained.. they don't make a lifestyle choice and fall back in their old habits. Its hard to break habits especially if your in an environment where food is so abundant and good tasting. Then we got family and a culture that revolves around food (seem to be the case in the USA) and its a sure way to fall back in old habits.

Of course people who invented surgery would say surgery is the solution... yes cutting parts of the body away is real healthy.

Acute surgical complications can include (but are not limited to):

Bleeding – Postoperative bleeding can require blood transfusion and occasionally reoperation. Bleeding can occur in roughly 1 in 200 patients.
Leaks at the staple line- This is the most feared complication of sleeve gastrectomy. It occurs in roughly 1 in 100 patients. This can at times require a repeat surgery, occasionally in the first few days after surgery. If these leaks persist they can turn into either communications with the skin or wound (fistula) or persistent infections within the abdominal cavity (abscesses). If this complication occurs the length of stay in hospital can be extended to weeks or potentially months after surgery. This can be a life-threatening problem.
Infection – This may require treatment with antibiotics and occasionally reoperation.
Wound issues “People with a higher BMI are at a higher risk of complications involving wound infections, haematomas (large bruises) and poor wound healing.
Other extremely rare issues – As this surgery affects the function of the gut, some patients are unable to tolerate adequate intakes of food which can result in the requirement of long-term nutritional support via intravenous methods, called TPN (total parenteral nutrition).
Damage to organs – any keyhole procedure can be complicated by unintentional injury to the organs near the area of operation. This may require a repeat operation to repair of the damaged organs.
Blood clots – Deep Venous Thromboses (clots in the veins) and pulmonary embolus (clots in the lungs)
Pneumonia/ chest infection

Possible Long Term Complications

Any intra-abdominal procedure related to the gastrointestinal tract can be complicated in the long-term by problems associated with adhesions(scar tissue) related to the gut.
Any intra-abdominal procedure has a low risk of subsequent herniaformation related to the wound closure
Both of these conditions could lead to the necessity for repeat surgery, sometimes even in the emergency setting
Increased chance of gastro-oesophageal reflux (heartburn). If reflux occurs post operatively some patients can require acid suppressing medication. This operation is avoided for those people with severe symptoms of reflux prior to surgery.
There are occasional issues related to malabsorption of micronutrients these are usually easily managed with supplemental vitamins and minerals. Long-term monitoring of blood tests is required.

Jingthing · October 2, 2016

Wrong. It is NOT easily explained. It is if you want to make something very simple out of something very complex.

Again, alpha male of the morality preachers dude, do you really think a person that has been on a yoyo diet cycle many times, damaging their health more every time, should do the same thing again and again (until they die) just so they can feel, at least I'm doing something ...

How is that moral? Again, I assert that is very cruel and immoral.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Jingthing

robblok · October 2, 2016

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Wrong. It is NOT easily explained. It is if you want to make something very simple out of something very complex.

Again, alpha male of the morality preachers dude, do you really think a person that has been on a yoyo diet cycle many times, damaging their health more every time, should do the same thing again and again (until they die) just so they can feel, at least I'm doing something ...

How is that moral? Again, I assert that is very cruel and immoral.

Oh dear.. a JT tantrum. I am getting tired of the moral immoral .. when you don't like something you call it immoral. I find it immoral you review restaurants and with that promote obesity.

No its simple.. you just make it complex. Get into a healthy diet and lifestyle and stick with it. Dont revert back. There are a whole host of problems of course but research has shown that those who make a lifestyle change and stick with it keep the weight off.. those who revert back .. get the weight back. Its simpel. What is hard is to make a lifestyle change and stick with it. Especially when you got people saying.. you can't help it just be fat.. don't worry just get surgery.

Still, say many nutrition and obesity experts, the basic underlying principles of weight loss and maintenance are the same: you have to eat a healthy diet and increase your exercise. People who lose weight and keep it off tend to eat significantly healthier foods and do a lot more exercise than the average American.

Jingthing · October 2, 2016

Typical sleazy personal attack
Predictably you avoided the core of my post ... the moral question of what's the best health decision for the hundreds of millions of people in the world that have repeatedly lost weight and regained it. So I will answer. Yes rather than harm your health further with yet another almost definite yoyo failure accept your heavier weight but with that do eat healthy foods and exercise. If your weight is high enough to cause significant health problems then rather than another diet with very low odds of long term improvement yes do consider surgery which offers such people massively higher odds of long term improvement. I believe my advice is very moral and very responsible but of course consult a doctor.

For people with a yoyo history realistically the odds of the next attempt working are very tiny. But the chances they'll damage their health more are high.

This is a really important point the Calvinist moralists miss. Health is the most important part of this. It is healthier to be at a stable overweight condition than doing endless serial yoyos.

Yes I know hope springs eternal and people feel the next try will really work long term. But the cold hard statistical reality is that it almost definitely won't. Repeating the same thing that doesn't work and indeed makes things worse is insanity.

Strange · October 2, 2016

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Typical sleazy personal attack
Predictably you avoided the core of my post ... the moral question of what's the best health decision for the hundreds of millions of people in the world that have repeatedly lost weight and regained it. So I will answer. Yes rather than harm your health further with yet another almost definite yoyo failure accept your heavier weight but with that do eat healthy foods and exercise. If your weight is high enough to cause significant health problems then rather than another diet with very low odds of long term improvement yes do consider surgery which offers such people massively higher odds of long term improvement. I believe my advice is very moral and very responsible but of course consult a doctor.

For people with a yoyo history realistically the odds of the next attempt working are very tiny. But the chances they'll damage their health more are high.

This is a really important point the Calvinist moralists miss. Health is the most important part of this. It is healthier to be at a stable overweight condition than doing endless serial yoyos.

Yes I know hope springs eternal and people feel the next try will Reilly work long term. But the cold hard statistical reality is that it almost definitely won't. Repeating the same thing that doesn't work indeed makes things worse is insanity.

I can not wrap my head around 1 thing that you keep going over and over about:

If they diet and exercise, they lose weight. When they stop, they gain weight. This is your YOYO complaint.

To have a YOYO effect You need to actually LOSE weight, then GAIN it back.

So you lost the weight, then what? Kept eating clean and working out, but still gained the weight back???? Or they went back to past habits and gained the weight back???

tropo · October 2, 2016

6 hours ago, robblok said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15208835

Just some info on chromium piconate and that is helps against insulin resistance.

I was using that in the early 90's. Good multi supplements often have it, but I don't take it no more.. Imagine what we would be taking if we took every supplement which is "proven" to help with weight loss or maintenance?

The best cure I know of for insulin resistance is exercise - the more the better. Lots of cardio and resistance work. When I work out hard I can consume large amounts of carbs all day long and maintain very good blood sugar levels, PP and FBS.

If I stop the exercise, after a few weeks the blood sugar levels head back to pre-diabetic levels and higher as my insulin resistance slowly increases.

So if you don't exercise, watch closely what you eat. If you do, you have far more leeway in what you can safely consume.

Mostly in this fat forum you find certain members trying their best to suggest that exercise is a waste of time for fat loss (most call it weight loss). One particular member combs the internet looking for proof of this, when he's not busy eating at and reviewing restaurants. If you want to believe that exercise is a waste of time, read all his posts. It's likely you'll never want to exercise ever again.

tropo · October 2, 2016

1 hour ago, Strange said:

I can not wrap my head around 1 thing that you keep going over and over about:

If they diet and exercise, they lose weight. When they stop, they gain weight. This is your YOYO complaint.

To have a YOYO effect You need to actually LOSE weight, then GAIN it back.

So you lost the weight, then what? Kept eating clean and working out, but still gained the weight back???? Or they went back to past habits and gained the weight back???

It's pretty easy to understand. It really is NOT rocket science. Although relative proportions will vary, at the end of the day your body fat levels correlate to how many calories you consume. That's a fact of nature. Eat when food is available - store it for future use. The body is not going to waste food.

Of course people will YOYO as they start eating too much again after a successful period of dieting and fat loss. There is no cure for eating too much and being fat - the result is guaranteed.

Jingthing · October 2, 2016

I was using that in the early 90's. Good multi supplements often have it, but I don't take it no more.. Imagine what we would be taking if we took every supplement which is "proven" to help with weight loss or maintenance?

The best cure I know of for insulin resistance is exercise - the more the better. Lots of cardio and resistance work. When I work out hard I can consume large amounts of carbs all day long and maintain very good blood sugar levels, PP and FBS.

If I stop the exercise, after a few weeks the blood sugar levels head back to pre-diabetic levels and higher as my insulin resistance slowly increases.

So if you don't exercise, watch closely what you eat. If you do, you have far more leeway in what you can safely consume.

Mostly in this fat forum you find certain members trying their best to suggest that exercise is a waste of time for fat loss (most call it weight loss). One particular member combs the internet looking for proof of this, when he's not busy eating at and reviewing restaurants. If you want to believe that exercise is a waste of time, read all his posts. It's likely you'll never want to exercise ever again.

So obnoxious. Ignore list time. Welcome back.

ClutchClark · October 2, 2016

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Wrong. It is NOT easily explained. It is if you want to make something very simple out of something very complex.

Again, alpha male of the morality preachers dude, do you really think a person that has been on a yoyo diet cycle many times, damaging their health more every time, should do the same thing again and again (until they die) just so they can feel, at least I'm doing something ...

How is that moral? Again, I assert that is very cruel and immoral.

I do NOT encourage yo-yo diets and agree they can be very dangerous to ones health.

I promote lifestyle changes that are adhered to not simply to reach a quick weight loss goal but to usher in an entirely new way of thinking about health.

I don't see how morality plays into this topic.

JSixpack · October 2, 2016

1 hour ago, tropo said:

The best cure I know of for insulin resistance is exercise - the more the better. Lots of cardio and resistance work.

It hasn't been mentioned that intermittent fasting seems quite helpful apart from any weight loss. Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men

I find that many overweight people never find the "right" diet for them but if they do happen to find it, then they can stick with it. Now me I'd avoid surgery at all costs. THE alternative to surgery for those who think they've exhausted all alternatives is a residence at a weight loss resort colloquially known as a "fat farm." In some cases insurance will pay.

People make their choices. Old friend of mine continued to gain weight to obesity and made half-hearted attempts to lose but in the end purposely chose to eat what she liked no matter the consequences. She did have great insurance that kept her alive well beyond her time. But in the end she died relatively young anyway. Happy, I guess; and was laid to rest in a graveyard on a hill from which she might view her favorite discount department store.

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