Gonsalviz Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 If I were to enter into a land lease or usufruct and put a house on such land, how would I register this house as a farang? I know the lease or usufruct must be registered with the local Land Office. I know it is required to have an address for the PEA to connect electric to it but I cannot get a Blue Tabien Bahn as a foreigner. I refuse to have locals (no matter the sex) stand in for me.(again) I know I can own a house but not the land. How does this work? I will be verifying any info I get here because of the wrong advice I have seen posted on TV before, so don't bother with guessing. A waste of my time and yours. Or maybe someone can just hook me up with a connection to the laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 46 minutes ago, Gonsalviz said: If I were to enter into a land lease or usufruct and put a house on such land, how would I register this house as a farang? I know the lease or usufruct must be registered with the local Land Office. -as yous stated "usufruct registered with land office", entered on chanote, certified copy to you. -application for building permit in your name. -not mandatory but recommended all invoices building cost in your name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 The blue book (tabien bahn) is normally required to get PEA to install a meter, you have several options: Ask the chanotte owner to order PEA service for you: Get a yellow tabien bahn of your own: Pay double the cost of the meter and service installation costs to PEA and they will not require any tabien bahn of any colour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFun Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 It's not a requirement to have a tabian baan (house number/reg) to connect electricity...just for normal connection. When we build we use a 'special' electric connection. More expensive per unit and a little more deposit 6-8k from memory but it's still possible. As for normal electric...if you had a Thai company you could do anything a Thai person can, as it is a juristic person. Including own the land as an asset. I like the idea of a usufruct or specificies but I think it comes with its own set of problems...as you have found... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 ...what use is it if...as you read.....someone can go to the land office...and 'encourage' a name change at any time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 If you lease the land, you will "normally" (may be different in various areas) need a written permission from the land owner to obtain a building permission. Often your architect will arrange all paperwork for you and seek building permission in your name. Look up Superficies before asking for building permission. Most important for ownership documentation is, that you obtain building permission in your name (only); and furthermore have your name on all architect drawings, building contractor agreement, money transfers, bills etc. – you will have no other proof of ownership for a new build house; apart from eventually Superfices agreement. The Blue House Book, and Yellow for foreigners, is not a proof of ownership; however, you can be listed as master-of-house, also as foreigner with you name in your Yellow House Book. Master-of-House approve names in the House Book. During the construction periode you will have a temporary electric meter. "Normally" a Blue House Book can be issued when a house is 80 percent finished – and that shall be within a year from issue of building permission (important to check with local Tessa Ban, if you get delayed) – and with a Blue House Book you can obtain a permanent electric meter for the house. Above information comes from my experience, when building my house. Please note that things may work different in other areas, or have been changed, so check with your local district office; and of course lawyer for important contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidream Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Completely useless- there is no real legal validity of it. There is no 100% safe way to ensure you can stay in your home because you do not and will never own the land. Regarding the electricity- the land owner goes to the lectric company and requests the meter and electricity be turned on and the bill is in that person's name but you pay it. Since my wife is the land and house owner and isis Thai- she went and signed for it. It took them about 2 weeks to actually come because we refused to pay the 'hurry up' money. Actually, the electric is already on- the wires can be crossed and you have electric but the electric company doesn't like that because then they cannot get extra money from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissie Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 OP: A discussion among legal/government circles has started concerning the legitimacy of "Company Owned" property. The concept of the "Usufruct" also has come under scrutiny. What remains? A 30 year lease. Forget all else. Everything will be handled differently, depending on the Amphoe/Land Office. Just an Example: To gain access to power/water, was a lot different in MY Amphoe, to what other posters have mentioned. Law's may well be issued in Bangkok, but (to this very day), are still open to "Local Interpretation", covering all aspects of Thai-Life (Thai-Legislation). Therefore, it is absolutely essential that an investor understands clearly, that "Legal-Certainty", as known in "Western Countries", is NOT GIVEN in Thailand. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonsalviz Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 My intention is to put a Thai style knockdown house on the property. The only real building will be a concrete pad and a well. All will be further down the road as I have to fill in rice field and let it settle through a rainy season. Hopefully, by November next year I will be moved in. A building permit is not necessary where I live. As some have mention a blue book and a yellow book is not proof of ownership. I happen to have a very good influential friend at the district office. I am sure that she has connections enough for the land office. This might be a piece of cake after all. I know all about PEA practices in another 2 provinces. 1 is useless as tits on a boar. The other was very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonsalviz Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 25 minutes ago, swissie said: OP: A discussion among legal/government circles has started concerning the legitimacy of "Company Owned" property. The concept of the "Usufruct" also has come under scrutiny. What remains? A 30 year lease. Forget all else. Everything will be handled differently, depending on the Amphoe/Land Office. Just an Example: To gain access to power/water, was a lot different in MY Amphoe, to what other posters have mentioned. Law's may well be issued in Bangkok, but (to this very day), are still open to "Local Interpretation", covering all aspects of Thai-Life (Thai-Legislation). Therefore, it is absolutely essential that an investor understands clearly, that "Legal-Certainty", as known in "Western Countries", is NOT GIVEN in Thailand. Cheers. I am not interested in investment. Only living out my days in enjoyment. I have already spent too much money here and nearly swindled once. I do not intend for either to happen again. A 30 year lease would be fine as long as it is registered at the land office. I highly doubt I will ever make it to 90. As stated I have a very good friend in the district office here and plan to do as much as I can with the least amount of reliance on locals. I have a gf that does not live with me but we see each other often enough. I have my motorcycle to tour when and where I like. Sometimes she goes with me. She has a job. I feel like I have been in Thailand, been swindled enough that I finally have a handle on who to trust and who not to. FINALLY. And I am far away from anywhere many farang are. Not that I have a problem with farang but the Thai that live around them certainly have learned to get as much as they can. They do it here too but to a much lesser degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colabamumbai Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 7 hours ago, Gonsalviz said: I am not interested in investment. Only living out my days in enjoyment. I have already spent too much money here and nearly swindled once. I do not intend for either to happen again. A 30 year lease would be fine as long as it is registered at the land office. I highly doubt I will ever make it to 90. As stated I have a very good friend in the district office here and plan to do as much as I can with the least amount of reliance on locals. I have a gf that does not live with me but we see each other often enough. I have my motorcycle to tour when and where I like. Sometimes she goes with me. She has a job. I feel like I have been in Thailand, been swindled enough that I finally have a handle on who to trust and who not to. FINALLY. And I am far away from anywhere many farang are. Not that I have a problem with farang but the Thai that live around them certainly have learned to get as much as they can. They do it here too but to a much lesser degree. Like anywhere in the world, you can only trust yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 12 hours ago, BigFun said: It's not a requirement to have a tabian baan (house number/reg) to connect electricity...just for normal connection. When we build we use a 'special' electric connection. More expensive per unit and a little more deposit 6-8k from memory but it's still possible. As for normal electric...if you had a Thai company you could do anything a Thai person can, as it is a juristic person. Including own the land as an asset. I like the idea of a usufruct or specificies but I think it comes with its own set of problems...as you have found... Normal people need a tabien bahn to order additions or changes to the electricity supply, special people don't I suppose! And given the crackdown by the Land Office over several years now of farangs running limited companies just to own property, I can't recommend that as a way forward, just as very very few reputable lawyers wouldn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFun Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Special is a direct translation from a 'piset' connection. Sorry to hear you're not special. In my 12 years of living and working here in real estate and construction I have never heard of anyone on my island having any problems with their companies. Maybe you know better from your 'sources'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 On 8/27/2016 at 7:23 PM, Thaidream said: There is no 100% safe way to ensure you can stay in your home because... ...tomorrow they might take you to the crematorium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 On 27/08/2016 at 10:21 PM, swissie said: OP: A discussion among legal/government circles has started concerning the legitimacy of "Company Owned" property. The concept of the "Usufruct" also has come under scrutiny. What remains? A 30 year lease. Forget all else. Everything will be handled differently, depending on the Amphoe/Land Office. Just an Example: To gain access to power/water, was a lot different in MY Amphoe, to what other posters have mentioned. Law's may well be issued in Bangkok, but (to this very day), are still open to "Local Interpretation", covering all aspects of Thai-Life (Thai-Legislation). Therefore, it is absolutely essential that an investor understands clearly, that "Legal-Certainty", as known in "Western Countries", is NOT GIVEN in Thailand. Cheers. Can you give some reference or background for your statement that I have bolded and underlined please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyIdea Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 On 8/27/2016 at 6:22 AM, chiang mai said: The blue book (tabien bahn) is normally required to get PEA to install a meter, you have several options: Ask the chanotte owner to order PEA service for you: Get a yellow tabien bahn of your own: Pay double the cost of the meter and service installation costs to PEA and they will not require any tabien bahn of any colour! Not discussing PEA here but just commenting that a yellow book has exactly the same "power" as a blue one. Get a yellow tabien baan and be made Chao Baan in it and you never need to use the blue book actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin Norway Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 What is building permit outside the city-line.Never heard of it. Land-lease I know.I have one myself. Depends on where you plan to lease , how long you get it for. Mine is for life.Other places it can be 30 years. When I die the land goes back to my girlfriend(Not wife) The law say that you can not lease from woure wife so that is a good exuse for not to get married.If you are married already you can not lease the land if it is in her name. If you are married you can agree with youre wife to move the land over to somebode else and then lease it from that person.Otherwise she she will automaticly be intitled to half. The yellow book can be harder for you to get.Yet again.Depends on where you live.Mine took a <deleted> long time and I dont give up easy.But I was close to just <deleted> it. When you do get youre house up it will be easyer. The electric papers must be in the landowners name.That meens the blue books name.When you get youre book you can put it in youre own name. The original chanook should be with you and a copy in the landoffice in Ampur.Not the other way around. The lease is bullet-proof.I have shown mine to 3 different lawyers and they all say the same. This is the only and best way to protect youreself when you are the onlyone that will pay for the house anyways. You dont need luck.You got it all sorted out already. Nice to see I am not alone to be carefull. Best Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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