The Simplicity of Weight Loss

[seancbk]

8 hours ago, dontoearth said:

 

    When I was young and immature (really into my late 40's) I believed all the same things you are spouting now. 

    Big companies depend on it!

 

  

 

During my 30's in Hong Kong I spent about 200,000 THB a month on cocaine.   

When I moved to Thailand I stopped completely.   Anyone that says they can't stop eating pizza and burgers because they are "addicted" is a lazy fat loser.

And for the record, if I could do coke with impunity like I could in HK I absolutely would.

 

Sadly, repressive laws here mean I cant.

 

You want to be a fat disgusting person good luck.  

 

[VincentRJ]

On ‎6‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 8:28 AM, ClutchClark said:

 

Are those the same old books that encourage blood letting ?

 

Seriously,  your advice is dangerous and hopefully everyone reading it recognizes that fact. 

 

This is even more true if someone is continuing an exercise program as part of their weight loss plan.

 

Ah! This is part of the problem; the notion that something as normal as plain fasting is dangerous.

 

Why do you think the first meal of the day is called 'Breakfast'? Which do you think is more dangerous, (1) doing the opposite of fasting, and becoming obese, or (2) increasing the duration of ones's normal period of fasting (between the evening meal and breakfast), in order to lose weight?

 

As I've mentioned before, one meal a day was customary for the most successful civilization in human history, the Roman Empire.

 

I've never suggested in any of my posts that one should jump into extreme fasting. One should take it gradually, and see how one feels. I mentioned previously the view that fasting for a maximum of around 30 days is considered to be quite safe for a person whout serious medical problems, and for women who are not pregnant. The reason I mentioned this was not to suggest that this 30-day period is what one should aim for. I mentioned it in order to calm any 'nanny-state' fears that one might die if one doesn't eat for a few days.

 

If a person is alreay on medication that needs to be taken 3 times a day with meals, for example, then fasting for more than the usual period of sleep, might not be recommended without consultation with a medical expert. However, medical experts often disagree. There are often alternative methods of addressing any problem. One should always use one's nous and do what makes sense.

 

I should add, in case it's not obvious, if one does decide to restrict one's food intake, one should make sure that the food one does eat, in between fasting, is wholesome and nutritious. I would not recommend breaking one's fast with a hamburger or a bowl of ice cream, for example.

[VincentRJ]

On ‎5‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 8:08 PM, csabo said:

The cards are stacked against us.  Big Pharma and the medical industry would loose trillions if obesity were solved and everyone was fit.  The food industry through massive marketing and genetic engineering creates products that keep you unhealthy on the inside and your doctor loves you that way because he gets a new Porche every year because you are addicted to french fries because they are scientifically designed to create addictive behavior and the food and medical industries stay rich.

 

Google "The Bliss Point" 

In the formulation of food products, the bliss point is the amount of an ingredient such as salt, sugar, or fat which optimizes palatability

 

Read and weep

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html

 

That's an informative article which sheds light on the problem. The following extract provides some background.

 

"According to the sources I spoke with, Sanger (head of General Mills) began by reminding the group that consumers were "fickle." (Sanger declined to be interviewed.) Sometimes they worried about sugar, other times fat. General Mills, he said, acted responsibly to both the public and shareholders by offering products to satisfy dieters and other concerned shoppers, from low sugar to added whole grains. But most often, he said, people bought what they liked, and they liked what tasted good. "Don’t talk to me about nutrition," he reportedly said, taking on the voice of the typical consumer. "Talk to me about taste, and if this stuff tastes better, don’t run around trying to sell stuff that doesn’t taste good."

 

What I found, over four years of research and reporting, was a conscious effort — taking place in labs and marketing meetings and grocery-store aisles — to get people hooked on foods that are convenient and inexpensive."

 

Such a view concords with my own experience and understanding of the issue, although a reference to 'appearance' is perhaps lacking. I recall some time ago reading an article about a cooking course at university level. A main point which stuck in my mind was that the most important factor for a cook to consider was the 'appearance' of the food. At first, that seemed a bit odd to me. Surely taste would be the most important consideration.

 

However, on reflection, I began to see the logic of it. Before we eat any food, we usually see pictures of it, whether on a restaurant menu, an advertisement on a billboard or on TV, or on a cooking show on TV.

 

When we're watching a cooking show, we can't taste the food, but we can see the ecstatic joy on the face of the person tasting the food that has just been prepared in the show.

People continually share photos, taken with their iPhones, of the plate of food they are about to eat, as if to say, 'Don't you envy me? Don't you wish you were here to tuck into this tasty meal?'

So, I can appreciate the fact that appearance is the most important consideration for any cook.

 

Regarding consideration of the general qualities of the food in our modern society, apart from price, it would seem that the order is, 'Appearance, taste, and nutrition last.'

 

For those who are concerned about their health, I would suggest that order should be reversed. I'd recomment nutrition should be first, then taste, and appearance last.

[dontoearth]

6 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

During my 30's in Hong Kong I spent about 200,000 THB a month on cocaine.   

When I moved to Thailand I stopped completely.   Anyone that says they can't stop eating pizza and burgers because they are "addicted" is a lazy fat loser.

And for the record, if I could do coke with impunity like I could in HK I absolutely would.

 

Sadly, repressive laws here mean I cant.

 

You want to be a fat disgusting person good luck.  

 

   I am not like you.  I don't have any addictions or personal problems.  I try not to use my good luck or better living to judge others.

[tominbkk]

6 hours ago, seancbk said:

Anyone that says they can't stop eating pizza and burgers because they are "addicted" is a lazy fat loser.

Wow, A+ for compassion.

[robblok]

I feel that often in this forum people are talking how impossible it is and that everything is stacked against them. Its like setting yourself up for failure. Its good to know the limitations and problems.. but one should not only focus on that but learn about them and try to get around them.

 

I feel that almost everyone can improve on how heave they are (if they are overweight) by changing what and how much they eat and drink. If sports is added it will increase the likelihood of keeping the fat off and losing more weight (studies confirm this).

 

I think its often that people are looking for excuses to accept their own failure. The same people who complain that Thais don't take responsibility for anything seem to do the same for their own weight loss. The majority just does not want to change their lifestyle and keep it changed. They think that its ok to go back to old habits after they lost the weight.

 

I am not disputing that its hard (been there done it) I am saying don't give up easy and accept that there is a lot you can do yourself. The stuff that is working against you is smaller then what you can influence yourself (within limitations) 

[dontoearth]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

feel that almost everyone can improve on how heave they are (if they are overweight) by changing what and how much they eat and drink. If sports is added it will increase the likelihood of keeping the fat off and losing more weight (studies confirm this).

     Can you give us a few of the studies?  Exercise doesn't get much credit for weight loss or maintaining weight loss in what I have been reading.

[csabo]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

 

I feel that almost everyone can improve on how heave they are (if they are overweight) by changing what and how much they eat and drink. If sports is added it will increase the likelihood of keeping the fat off and losing more weight (studies confirm this).

 

 

 

Agreed you can change habits and improve overall health including weight.  While there are studies showing both sides of the "how much good does exercise do for weight loss", you are correct that many professionals are coming to the conclusion that exercise plays a far smaller roll in weight loss then does calorie reduction.  I saw one claim that it takes an hour of running to burn off one chocolate chip cookie with the obvious implication that it is much easier to skip the cookie then do the workout.  A proposal to label foods with compensatory workouts is an interesting concept.  Would people still eat the cookie above if the package said in bold print "After eating run for an hour"??  I can tell you the food companies will fight this with every lobby dollar but who knows...

Check it out,

http://www.today.com/health/new-food-labels-show-how-much-you-need-exercise-burn-t84871

[csabo]

13 minutes ago, tominbkk said:

Wow, A+ for compassion.

 

Yeah he's a real champ.  "I'm a coke fiend but anyone who eats pizza is a loser".  Umm... huh???  Got a feeling he will posting requesting legal advise in the not too distant future.

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     Can you give us a few of the studies?  Exercise doesn't get much credit for weight loss or maintaining weight loss in what I have been reading.

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3406229/

 

here and they are only looking at weight loss.. they did not even compensate for gained muscle. I can find more studies but this was the first one that popped up. 

 

But true.. exercise does not add a huge advantage.. but long term studies show its easier to keep the weight off if you have exercise + changes in diet instead of diet alone. 

 

Below an other one.. but that one says people eat less when exercising (I actually can lose appetite after a good workout)

 

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-loss/exercise-vs-diet-for-weight-loss

 

There is much more, exercise helps your insulin body's response to insulin.. and we all know that that is important to lose weight. 

[ClutchClark]

7 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

During my 30's in Hong Kong I spent about 200,000 THB a month on cocaine.   

When I moved to Thailand I stopped completely.   Anyone that says they can't stop eating pizza and burgers because they are "addicted" is a lazy fat loser.

And for the record, if I could do coke with impunity like I could in HK I absolutely would.

 

Sadly, repressive laws here mean I cant.

 

You want to be a fat disgusting person good luck.  

 

 

I have never seen an obese coke addict.

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, csabo said:

 

Agreed you can change habits and improve overall health including weight.  While there are studies showing both sides of the "how much good does exercise do for weight loss", you are correct that many professionals are coming to the conclusion that exercise plays a far smaller roll in weight loss then does calorie reduction.  I saw one claim that it takes an hour of running to burn off one chocolate chip cookie with the obvious implication that it is much easier to skip the cookie then do the workout.  A proposal to label foods with compensatory workouts is an interesting concept.  Would people still eat the cookie above if the package said in bold print "After eating run for an hour"??  I can tell you the food companies will fight this with every lobby dollar but who knows...

Check it out,

http://www.today.com/health/new-food-labels-show-how-much-you-need-exercise-burn-t84871

 

It wont take me so long to burn off once chocolate chip cookie.. but I am a trained person we can do much more then the average seditary person.

 

I now do a workout of 2 hours.. one part is lifting weights .. the other part is rowing on a rowing machine. That rowing machine is real conservative with its caloric burn (showing far less then other machines they are often overstating) But at 35 minutes I have burned 500 calories, but that is a hard row (for me) Ad to that what i burned doing weights (again i lift hard and heavy been doing it for years) i can get to the 800-1000 cals with EPOC and all. But I admit I only do this four times a week. so cutting 500 cals would be if you do that 7 days and you get around the same result.

 

Much of the problem is indeed the nice food that is available and that is the reason why there is so much obesity. When I was younger in the Netherlands (years behind the US in obesity problems). There was far less tasty food available and moms prepared home made foods. There was not that much obesity. Now with more foods available and people drinking coca cola and having so many restaurants and fast food places available there is a lot more obesity.

 

I certainly believe its caused by eating too much and the wrong foods. When I got fat it was because of alcohol and eating loads of bad foods here in Thailand.

 

And a few months ago when I was a bit down (depressed) i ate loads more and far more bad foods (pizza company  ect) and I gained weight . That is all gone now by more exercise and cutting those bad foods out. I am certainly a believer that weight gain is cause by eating too much and the wrong foods. I also blame myself and not pizza company. 

[VincentRJ]

I find it a bit bizarre that people would exercise mainly to lose weight, or maintain weight loss. It sounds almost like a form of self-punishment for having indulged in a bit of really tasty food.

 

I exercise in order to keep fit, and because I enjoy exercising and feel better afterwards, and because some of the exercise is productive, like working in the garden felling trees and pushing wheel barrows.

 

I think I would go crazy if every time I ate a bowl of ice cream or some chocolate I felt compelled to jog an extra hour or two.

[robblok]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

I find it a bit bizarre that people would exercise mainly to lose weight, or maintain weight loss. It sounds almost like a form of self-punishment for having indulged in a bit of really tasty food.

 

I exercise in order to keep fit, and because I enjoy exercising and feel better afterwards, and because some of the exercise is productive, like working in the garden felling trees and pushing wheel barrows.

 

I think I would go crazy if every time I ate a bowl of ice cream or some chocolate I felt compelled to jog an extra hour or two.

 

I exercise to keep fit .. but the cardio part is mainly to burn some extra calories. The weightlifting is not.  But the cardio also helps me get fit. If you workout hard like I do and restrict calories fat will burn off from the exercise and restricted calories. I do believe that people who really workout (and have done so for a long time) have far more ability to burn fat with exercise because they can burn a lot more before they are tired and just complete a bigger workload. 

 

For me the lifting is to keep the muscle I have maybe improve a bit (hard to do at this stage). But I don't see exercise as punishment. Just like I cant believe people fasting to lose weight.. guess we are all different. 

[VincentRJ]

On ‎8‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 3:38 PM, robblok said:

 

I exercise to keep fit .. but the cardio part is mainly to burn some extra calories. The weightlifting is not.  But the cardio also helps me get fit. If you workout hard like I do and restrict calories fat will burn off from the exercise and restricted calories. I do believe that people who really workout (and have done so for a long time) have far more ability to burn fat with exercise because they can burn a lot more before they are tired and just complete a bigger workload. 

 

For me the lifting is to keep the muscle I have maybe improve a bit (hard to do at this stage). But I don't see exercise as punishment. Just like I cant believe people fasting to lose weight.. guess we are all different. 

 

One of the advantages of fasting to lose weight is that you are able to do other useful things at the same time, such as thinking, contemplating, reading, and a whole host of basic, everyday tasks. It's a very efficient and cost-effective way of losing weight.

 

I don't know about you, but I find that any intensive exercise, such as continuous jogging or lifting weights in a gym, introduces a certain stress which makes it difficult, and sometimes even unsafe, to think about other matters at the same time and make plans, for example.
For this reason, I prefer to take a brisk walk for exercise, which enables me to appreciate my surroundings, admire any wildlife I might encounter,  and to think about matters in general.

 

During the walk, I'll occasionally sprint for a minute or so when I encounter a slope up hill, so I get really out-of-breath and pant hard for a while. These very short periods of intense exercise have their own benefits which are claimed to be better than continuous jogging. This type of technique is referred to as High-intensity Interval Training (or HIIT). I have my own version.

 

 

[robblok]

29 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

One of the advantages of fasting to lose weight is that you are able to do other useful things at the same time, such as thinking, contemplating, reading, and a whole host of basic, everyday tasks. It's a very efficient and cost-effective way of losing weight.

 

I don't know about you, but I find that any intensive exercise, such as continuous jogging or lifting weights in a gym, introduces a certain stress which makes it difficult, and sometimes even unsafe, to think about other matters at the same time and make plans, for example.
For this reason, I prefer to take a brisk walk for exercise, which enables me to appreciate my surroundings, admire any wildlife I might encounter,  and to think about matters in general.

 

During the walk, I'll occasionally sprint for a minute or so when I encounter a slope up hill, so I get really out-of-breath and pant hard for a while. These very short periods of intense exercise have their own benefits which are claimed to be better than continuous jogging. This type of technique is referred to as High-intensity Interval Training (or HIIT). I have my own version.

 

 

I got plenty of time all day think about stuff, if you cant spare 8 hours a week you must have a real busy life. I still work and I can spare 8 hours a week easy for training. I still have plenty of time to think, I actually like the intense exercise because I am thinking most of the day (for my clients). For me it relaxes me and helps me sleep if I don't exercise i get stressed. 

 

I know all about HIIT I sometimes do it on the rowing machine but as my training program is already real demanding I dont often add it.. Too much can be bad even for someone like me who has trained hard for years.  But seriously training de-stresses me and keeps me sharp. I tried fasting.. it drove me mad. I can't work and fast because I'm constantly thinking about food. 

 

So that just is not for me.. just like intense workouts are not your thing. We all need to do our thing.. else we can't keep doing it so fasting fits you.. exercise and caloric restrictions fit me (and caloric cycling and stuff like that)

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

I got plenty of time all day think about stuff, if you cant spare 8 hours a week you must have a real busy life. I still work and I can spare 8 hours a week easy for training. I still have plenty of time to think, I actually like the intense exercise because I am thinking most of the day (for my clients). For me it relaxes me and helps me sleep if I don't exercise i get stressed. 

 

I know all about HIIT I sometimes do it on the rowing machine but as my training program is already real demanding I dont often add it.. Too much can be bad even for someone like me who has trained hard for years.  But seriously training de-stresses me and keeps me sharp. I tried fasting.. it drove me mad. I can't work and fast because I'm constantly thinking about food. 

 

So that just is not for me.. just like intense workouts are not your thing. We all need to do our thing.. else we can't keep doing it so fasting fits you.. exercise and caloric restrictions fit me (and caloric cycling and stuff like that)

 

8 hours a week might not seem much, but it is basically  the equivalent of a whole working day. Over a period of a year it's the equivalent of 52 working days, and over the period of, say, 50 years it is the equivalent of 7 years' worth of 8-hour working days, every day of the week.

 

Is that really the best use of your time? Think of what else you could achieve during such a period of 8 hours each and every day for 7 years of your life.

 

I tried fasting.. it drove me mad. I can't work and fast because I'm constantly thinking about food.

 

I wonder if learning how to achieve more self-control over your desires and appetite might be more useful than repetitively pushing up heavy weights in a gym? Are you in training for some sports competition, or body-building contest, or maybe are thinking of becoming a soldier in the army?

[robblok]

8 hours is nothing.. and it is the best use of my time.. I see my mom who does not exercise and my dad as an example. I see how much stronger my dad is and how much more energy he has. Its is such a big difference investing those 8 hours seem like nothing. You sound a little bit like a lazy guy who can't even exercise. Maybe you should get some more self control and get your lazy ass in action. I have often seen lazy guys like you that think their method is good and neglect their body.

 

Like the brain the muscle has to be trainen to keep it active and keep you fit. Your fasting.. is just a way to torture yourself during days. I would not want to torture myself like that when all i need to do is 8  hours of exercise will do combined with a good diet.

 

Maybe you should give your advice to lazy people and not dedicated people with loads of self control. For me someone who runs a successful business and loves the exercise as a way to counter the sitting behind the computer its perfect. For someone like you who sounds real lazy and likes to put others down if they can't accept your crazy lazy way it might be better to move along and accept that we all have ways that suit us. 

 

Some lazy people would like your way.. others like my way. I wonder if all that being lazy is training you to be slouch. Maybe you want to become a tree.. and not move at all. I wonder if you can even have sex.. i mean is that too much of an exercise too ? By training your body with heavy weights and cardio.. you gain a lot of stamina for all things in life... by doing nothing and starving your body.. you gain..... nothing. 

 

Now run along and go contemplate your manners. You obviously never heard about the health benefits of exercise and that a minimum of 8 hours is required. Bye .. i think all that fasting damaged your brain.

[dontoearth]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 8:29 AM, VincentRJ said:

I find it a bit bizarre that people would exercise mainly to lose weight, or maintain weight loss. It sounds almost like a form of self-punishment for having indulged in a bit of really tasty food.

 

I exercise in order to keep fit, and because I enjoy exercising and feel better afterwards, and because some of the exercise is productive, like working in the garden felling trees and pushing wheel barrows.

 

I think I would go crazy if every time I ate a bowl of ice cream or some chocolate I felt compelled to jog an extra hour or two.

     How many trees are in your garden?  ROFL!  I use exercise to know the general state of my health.  I get measurements of my blood pressure before I start!  I know how long and at one level  I achieve and maintain my  target heart rate on many different machines.   This is the reason I do the cardio!   I do the weight lifting because I can know with some accuracy the amount and weight and number of reps and number of sets I can do for a particular exercise.   This gives me a good measurement of the muscle condition. 

       Also for those of us that use our brain a great deal in fully active lives the additional benefit of exercise is that it allows some down town and some turn on off which proves beneficial and healthful.

      I find nothing wrong with fasting but like most things in life I have done it is taking some time to fit in and adjust.  Your constant idiotic harping that is so easy ...is just mean...and antagonistic.    You are not really convincing anyone and you seem to never offer up any medical proof.  You even argue when people offer a few doctors names that agree with fasting.

      I thought you were studying Buddhism?  Aren't you supposed to clear the mind?  Avoid arguments?  Not be so prideful?  Fill us in?  What little I studied in Buddhism and meditation you seem to have the whole thing WRONG!  I didn't find Buddhism easy either.  I spent a summer trying to learn the walking meditation from the abbot at Mahachulalongkorn Buddhist University. 

[VincentRJ]

5 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     How many trees are in your garden?  ROFL! 

 

I've never bothered to count them. I've got better things to do than count trees.

 

However, the size of my garden is 5 acres, and trees cover most of that area. Removing the trees that present a potential hazard to my house during fires or storms, and creating fertile garden beds with the cut-up timber and branches and slashed grass and general mulch and debris, involves quite a bit of anaerobic exercise, such as lifting heavy logs into a wheelbarrow, and pushing the wheelbarrow up slopes, and so on.
 

I thought you were studying Buddhism?  Aren't you supposed to clear the mind?  Avoid arguments?  Not be so prideful?  Fill us in?  What little I studied in Buddhism and meditation you seem to have the whole thing WRONG!  I didn't find Buddhism easy either.  I spent a summer trying to learn the walking meditation from the abbot at Mahachulalongkorn Buddhist University.

 

Good point! I am interested in certain aspects of Buddhism, but follow only what makes sense to me. I don't blindly follow any advice just because it's a tradition. That's probably why I'm able to fast so easily. Three meals a day, breakfast, lunch and dinner, is a tradition. I like to believe I'm not tradition-bound, or at least not as tradition-bound as some people appear to be.

 

As regards avoiding arguments, there are two basic definitions of an argument. Check the dictionary.
(1) A quarrel, squabble, fight, clash, altercation, and so on, usually involving personal insults.

 

This is the type of argument I always try to avoid.

 

(2) A reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

 

This is the type of argument I engage in frequently, for two main reasons. One is to share information which I think might be useful and helpful for others. The other reason is to provide an opportunity for me to learn something, when my argument is not in accord with some established fact that I wasn't aware of, and when such fact is presented in refutation of my argument.

 

As regards pride, it doesn't worry me at all if complete strangers on the internet insult me, call me an idiot, or call my ideas idiotic. Such comments say more about the person making the comment. I only pay attention to reasoned arguments.

 

I'm not aware that I've insulted anyone in this thread, and that certainly wasn't my intention. However, I understand that sometimes people can infer an insult when none was implied.

 

Hope I've succeeded in clarifying the situation.
 

[robblok]

VincentRJ..

 

Then maybe you should study more about the benefits of exercise instead of flaming people. Doing lots of exercise will certainly help you stay in shape when your older and it certainly relaxes those of us who do a lot of mental work. 

 

I was gracious enough to say that we are not all the same and you came back rather rude and stupid promoting your fasting. Exercise does far more as weight loss and if you don't know about it you got a lot to learn.

For me 2 hours of exercise 8 hours in a week is not much and because I am a trained athlete i can burn loads of calories in that time.. Someone like you would not be able to do so so for you it would not work. But that is only the fat loss part of exercise.. keeping in shape and getting your body moving is an other thing people should do.

 

But you say you got a 5 acre piece of land you work and that takes a lot out of you.. that is exercise too. I have just my gym to relax after a hard day of work (mental work as a tax accountant). People like me are different then people like you who work out in a garden.. I dont have such a thing.. so the gym is my way of keeping my body in shape and blowing off steam. 

 

I know for a fact that people who stay active by exercise or work have far more energy and quality of life when they age. If I ever were to stop my job I would have to find other ways to engage my brain because a brain should be trained just like a muscle. I have seen smart guys go to waste after they retired because they did not use their brain anymore.

 

My dad is my example, old.. but active and because he always biked a lot and now does 4 hour bike rides (retired so he has all the time in the world) and does sudoku puzzles to stay sharp.. Now if i compare that with my mom who does not exercise and does nothing like that.. 

 

Then i know who's lifestyle I want to follow.

 

For certain people fasting can be good.. but it does no good for people like me who because of their exercise have good insulin response already (insulin responds good to exercise.. guess you did not know that). For me a continuous stream of nutrients helps a lot better to recover from my workout and to keep me lean then fasting ever could.

 

You should learn that we are all different and what works for one does not work for an other. My dad would never lift weights.. not his style... I would never ride a bike for 4 hours (have done it with dad when i visit him but its not something i would do by myself). Everyone should find something that suits .. you got your gardening. 

 

Your pushing your ways too much without having much knowledge to back it up. 

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

VincentRJ..

 

Then maybe you should study more about the benefits of exercise instead of flaming people. Doing lots of exercise will certainly help you stay in shape when your older and it certainly relaxes those of us who do a lot of mental work. 

 

 

Okay! I have no wish to inflame people so I shall now leave this discussion. But for the record, I should state that I've always believed in the benefits of regular exercise and a wholesome diet. I'm already quite old at 74, and fortunately I'm still in excellent health, and fit and strong enough to do the things I want to do, and am a normal weight.

 

In addition to the more anaerobic exercise of working in my large garden, I go for regular walks which include brief periods of intense jogging ( a form of HIIT). Didn't I mention that in previous posts?

 

However, I also occasionally fast for more than a day or two at a time, which I believe provides additional health benefits beyond exercise and diet, according to university research I've read. However, there's no definitive research on such benefits of fasting, regarding humans as opposed to mice and rats, because it is very expensive and difficult  to organise long-term studies involving humans in a controlled environment, and self-reporting is notoriously unreliable. There is also the problem of there being no product to sell at the end of such research, as there usually is with pharmaceutical research, so who is going to fund such research, apart from certain universities doing theoretical research?

 

If you don't want to fast, or find it too unpleasant, or too risky, that's no problem for me. I don't mind at all and I'm not in the least offended. It's your life. You should do as you please.
I apologise if I've upset anyone. Best of luck with whatever health regime you pursue.

[ClutchClark]

18 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

In addition to the more anaerobic exercise of working in my large garden, I go for regular walks which include brief periods of intense jogging ( a form of HIIT). Didn't I mention that in previous posts?

 

 

Anaerobic gardening? How does that work? Speed weeding? Harvesting goals of so many kg's per hour?

 

Just kidding.

[Ace of Pop]

Exercise to what extent is it good?.ive played Action Man all my life ,whilst the most strenuous thing my Friends have done is pick up a Biro.They don't suffer from weight gain now we're old,I do and it's bloody miserable being carefull while they carry on as normal . Moderation is the thing,most of my sporting old Chomsky suffer to from worn out joints and going to seed if they are not carefull.I expect the Young Bloods Wont like this,but they know what's in Tomorrow's Papers some of them MODERATION IS THE ANSWER.


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[ClutchClark]

4 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

Exercise to what extent is it good?.ive played Action Man all my life ,whilst the most strenuous thing my Friends have done is pick up a Biro.They don't suffer from weight gain now we're old,I do and it's bloody miserable being carefull while they carry on as normal . Moderation is the thing,most of my sporting old Chomsky suffer to from worn out joints and going to seed if they are not carefull.I expect the Young Bloods Wont like this,but they know what's in Tomorrow's Papers some of them MODERATION IS THE ANSWER.


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Action Man !!

 

Should you ever get banned from TVF then you really need to come back reincarnated as "Action Man".

 

 

[robblok]

36 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Okay! I have no wish to inflame people so I shall now leave this discussion. But for the record, I should state that I've always believed in the benefits of regular exercise and a wholesome diet. I'm already quite old at 74, and fortunately I'm still in excellent health, and fit and strong enough to do the things I want to do, and am a normal weight.

 

In addition to the more anaerobic exercise of working in my large garden, I go for regular walks which include brief periods of intense jogging ( a form of HIIT). Didn't I mention that in previous posts?

 

However, I also occasionally fast for more than a day or two at a time, which I believe provides additional health benefits beyond exercise and diet, according to university research I've read. However, there's no definitive research on such benefits of fasting, regarding humans as opposed to mice and rats, because it is very expensive and difficult  to organise long-term studies involving humans in a controlled environment, and self-reporting is notoriously unreliable. There is also the problem of there being no product to sell at the end of such research, as there usually is with pharmaceutical research, so who is going to fund such research, apart from certain universities doing theoretical research?

 

If you don't want to fast, or find it too unpleasant, or too risky, that's no problem for me. I don't mind at all and I'm not in the least offended. It's your life. You should do as you please.
I apologise if I've upset anyone. Best of luck with whatever health regime you pursue.

 

I don't find fasting too risky at all.. our ancestors dit it, my problem with it is that i need to be real clear of mind when I work. The first parts of fasting are a real distraction to me and waste a lot of time. I have tried fasting when I don't have to work and am doing something else then its easier. 

 

It just not suited for my situation, hence I said we are all different and should all find something that works and suits us. I think that was quite a nice compromise. Then you go on how I am wasting my time and how I am not strong enough to fast. I don't get that when you yourself believe in regular exercise. Its just that weight lifting suits my body, my limbs are the right size (people over 6ft often have problems with it if their limbs are not in the right proportions). I do cardio on a rowing machine (i like it a lot less but can think or even play an audio book unless I am going for a real intense workout). Cardio is not my favorite thing but I added it for general health. 

 

I really mean it when I said that I need exercise to de-stress, if I don't exercise for a month of so i start to get grumpy and my mood will go down. That then in turn will make me lose my interest in keeping a healthy diet and even influence my work. So for me its needed to exercise.

 

In all my time I have never told people what kind of exercise to do, because exercise is a life time commitment and everyone should find something they like. Of course I will suggest weight lifting / gym if they want to grow muscles because its the most efficient way to get them. However otherwise I always advise people to do something they like. I don't have the attitude my way or the high way about exercise. I have 20-25 years of experience lifting weights and read up tons of information about exercise and diet (i like science and got an active mind). So in general I know what I am talking about but learn new things all the time.

 

Exercise in general is not good for weight loss.. studies where they only exercised usually did not result in much weight loss. However combined with diet it has a synergistic effect and makes sure people keep the weight off. 

 

It helps for instance to combat insulin resistance (insulin helps to store fat though insulin is good too if you want to build muscles its a double edged blade). Exercise also helps to retain muscle during weight loss.. because often during a diet a lot of muscle is lost. That is a bad thing.

 

This is besides all the other general health things exercise does for a person. So that is why I like my exercise.

 

And no harm done with your posting we are now clear on things and it was not your intention to flame me. I just read it that way.

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

Exercise to what extent is it good?.ive played Action Man all my life ,whilst the most strenuous thing my Friends have done is pick up a Biro.They don't suffer from weight gain now we're old,I do and it's bloody miserable being carefull while they carry on as normal . Moderation is the thing,most of my sporting old Chomsky suffer to from worn out joints and going to seed if they are not carefull.I expect the Young Bloods Wont like this,but they know what's in Tomorrow's Papers some of them MODERATION IS THE ANSWER.


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Thing is you don't know if you would have suffered form weight gain if you had not played action man before. There is no real connection (besides some bodybuilders that eat like they still workout crazy while they stopped) But that is not a sports thing but a diet thing you have to adapt your food if you ever stop exercising hard. 

 

You are right about joints and other parts of the body.. have to be careful with that. But my dad for instance worked out a lot and now even more so on the bike and he looks better than he did before. Much slimmer and has loads of energy. Mom on the other hand.. never exercised.. and has almost no energy and health problems all the time. 

 

Can I ask what kind of sports you did when you were younger ? And do remember appetite is something that is set. I have seen a documentary of the BBC about appetite. It was done with some children who were filmed in a kindergarden setting. Some cookies were put down and the kids were told they could eat as much as they want. The difference among childeren (who obviously dont know about weight problems) was amazing. Some kept on eating others never touched the cookies and others stopped at one. 

 

Your appetite is regulated by leptin (to an extent) and we all have different appetites. There are now ways to control it a bit with bromocriptine (keeps appetite at bay when you are eating less then you burn and keeps your metabolic rate higher and in much higher doses is used to treat alzheimer)

 

Just an example of how appetites differ, one of my fiends is trying to gain some muscle.. he is the skinny type. For him its a task to eat enough and even had to result to weight gainers. I really could not understand his problem because if I could eat all I wanted I would almost never stop. (I have a pretty good diet now and weigh my food if I am at maintenance calories I am never hungry). Just to show how individuals differ. 

 

This has never been linked to sports or being active just to genes. 

[Ace of Pop]

If I owned aN exercise place,that would be my reply too


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[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

If I owned aN exercise place,that would be my reply too


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Guess you don't like research.. and I don't own an exercise place (as in commercial one). Just a place where I workout myself a home gym. So I have no financial incentive. But I guess you don't like to learn more. Have fun I wont waste my time with you. 

[Ace of Pop]

As I said the Young know it all.my moderate friends have no prob.up to you.


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