Students are now suffering because policymakers failed to do their homework

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

Students are now suffering because policymakers failed to do their homework

Chularat Saengpassa
The Nation 

 

 

BANGKOK: -- Something big is happening in Thai education, with policymakers overhauling the way students enroll in universities.The move will affect millions of children who are preparing to pursue higher education.

 

The powers-that-be have promised to give students two years to adjust before the new university-admission system takes effect in 2018. 

The new system will in fact already be very familiar to many people over the age of 30. 

Students will take crucial exams just once and simultaneously. With their test scores they can then apply to their preferred higher-educational institutes. The higher their score, the better chance of being accepted. 

Simply put, the country is heading back to the system that was in place between 1961 and 2001. 

"But this time, we are going to announce test scores before students make their choice of institutes. In addition, we will allow them to choose twice," Education Ministry permanent secretary Kamjorn Tatiyakavee said.

At present, although universities have joined the central admission system, most bypass it and recruit students directly. With direct admission playing such a big role, students end up scrambling for a place at various different institutes. They don't want to miss out, after all. But taking the direct route means having to endure a gruelling ordeal of application exams. For this, students need to prepare hard, taking cramming courses almost year-round. Low-income earners often can't afford to pay for the courses, meaning the gap between the rich and the poor has widened. And it's not just about who can afford to pay for tutorial classes. Students from wealthier families also have an advantage simply because they can pay the application fees and afford travel expenses to try their luck at more institutes. 

In other words, the current system has failed to solve the problems of its predecessor.

When the old system was scrapped in 2001, policymakers talked about how its replacement would significantly ease students' dependence on tutorial schools and reduce the gap between rich and poor. 

But not only has the current system failed to solve old problems, it has also brought new ones, with higher-educational institutes complaining it selects students who are unsuitable to their requirements. 

In 2009, Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Science revealed that of 38 first-year students in its physics programme, 24 had a grade point average lower than 2 and had thus been put on probation. Of 27 first-year students in its imaging-technology programme, half scored an F grade. 

In a bid to ensure the quality of new students, several medical schools have joined forces to set up their own admission system. 

The flaws of the current university admission system are deep and various. 

It's predecessor, meanwhile, had passed the test of time with a tough university entrance exam that furnished universities with quality students for decades. 

But in reverting to the old system, the powers-that-be can't simply ignore the lessons. 

They need to acknowledge the mistakes in making the big change 15 years ago and learn from them. In formulating policy, officials must keep in mind that their every move will affect millions of lives - both of students and of their families. 

Don't pile pressure and confusion onto children for nothing. Don't make policy without solid evidence that the outcome will be change for the better. 

No one can deny the need for progress and change. But in making changes, the powers-that-be have a duty to do all they can to ensure that it takes us forwards, not backwards. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Students-are-now-suffering-because-policymakers-fa-30294335.html

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2016-09-02

[PatOngo]

Fortunately they are all born smart......just ask my wife!

[lostinisaan]

The new system will in fact already be very familiar to many people over the age of 30. 

 

          That explains all. No education for "not so rich people."

Edited September 1, 2016 by lostinisaan

[z42]

The amounts of in house testing set by the Universities themselves alongside any number of standardized national tests and other high school administered tests put an almighty burden on the students. It is simply too much.

But the article is interesting as it says the old system got higher yields of quality students who can meet the demands set. I wonder if that is all it is, a sign of the times now is that the distractions of modern living nowadays can in many ways blind students as to just what it takes to not only complete a degree course, but to attain a high degree classification.

This is going to be a very tough nut to crack, it would appear that the solution from yesteryear may not be as nearly effective if used nowadays. The only good thing I guess is that most students who can meet the requirements and deserve to get the course of their choosing, do get it.

[Sphere]

Quote

It's predecessor, meanwhile, had passed the test of time with a tough university entrance exam that furnished universities with quality students for decades. 

 

Where is the 'pinch-o-salt' emoticon?

[MaxLee]

Anybody surprised??? This is operation ULTIMATE BRAINWASHING IN DISGUISE post-referendum....

[klauskunkel]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

But this time, we are going to announce test scores before students make their choice of institutes

But this time, we are going to announce test scores before students take the tests.

[Emster23]

Did I understand this right? Admission will depend only on that one test score? We have a tacit admission that whatever "learning" or grades or whatever during high school years counts for nothing. If that is so, perhaps better if ambitious student spent all their time in self directed learning on the net in order to learn some content of value. Seems in schools they learn to sit down, shut up and don't ask questions.

[12DrinkMore]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

They need to acknowledge the mistakes in making the big change 15 years ago and learn from them.

 

I think we have a small sticking point there.

 

There has never been a single Thai in the history of Thailand that has admitted to making a mistake.

[lvr181]

9 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

I think we have a small sticking point there.

 

There has never been a single Thai in the history of Thailand that has admitted to making a mistake.

 

Because "loss of face" accompanies that? What is more important?   

[Fookhaht]

Well this explains a lot.  

I came to Thailand in 2001, at the start of the current system, teaching only at the tertiary level.

I've noticed a continual downhill slide in the caliber of students being admitted every year.  The dropout rate in freshmen classes has continued to climb precipitously.  In 2001-2002, an average of  1-2 students might drop from a first-year class (5%).    In the last three years, the rate has climbed up to 30%.   

The first semester, freshman year,  is an exercise in baby sitting--trying to condition students to arriving at class on time,  arriving at class at all,  following simple instructions, handing in work within a reasonable window of time, and doing their own work (translation:  stop cheating).  Clearly, we are getting students who have never learned these basic skills at the high school level.  This is across the board--classes taught both in Thai and English.   The battle has made we instructors wonder who is at the wheel of the admissions systems.    Apparently clueless policymakers. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by Fookhaht

[ScotBkk]

University, to me sounded like an absolute dream.

 

However, in retrospect it tasted like damnation 

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, MaxLee said:

Anybody surprised??? This is operation ULTIMATE BRAINWASHING IN DISGUISE post-referendum....

 

It almost beggars belief that so many could be so hoodwinked so easily........but then again........

[Detectorist]

The Thai education system is put in place by the Thai Government in order to keep the population uneducated. Thus, education reform changes are announced and made every 6 months.

[Fookhaht]

2 minutes ago, Detectorist said:

The Thai education system is put in place by the Thai Government in order to keep the population uneducated. Thus, education reform changes are announced and made every 6 months.

At the legislative level, a bevy of laws was passed 1997-1999, which were an educator's dream.   It culminated in The National Education Act of 1999 (B.E. 2542).   A lot of flurry at the time of the enactment:  pronouncements, seminars,  news releases, etc.    The main focus:  moving education from teacher-centered to student-centered;  Thailand's greatest need.  

Text of legislation here:   http://planipolis.iiep.unesco.org/upload/Thailand/Thailand_Education_Act_1999.pdf

Haven't heard anything about it since.  Nor is it followed.  

[Ace of Pop]

The Thai education system is put in place by the Thai Government in order to keep the population uneducated. Thus, education reform changes are announced and made every 6 months.

In The West they use the Press and the Schools. No differences exept to what extent


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[seajae]

our daughter wants to be a doctor, she attends after school learning every week night and on both days of the weekend. She is ranked in the top 30 students in the south and attends a school where there is only one class that actually teaches the harder subjects she requires, she  sat her exam for this and was in the top 10 so luckilt she was admitted into it.  She had to sit exams at the uni last year and will have to sit more this year to see if she can qualify to start attending there next year, all her spare time is spent studying and learning. From what I have seen the general education in Thailand is quite pathetic, the teachers seem to know bugger all and many refuse to do any actual teaching during the days, the classes have no set rules/requirements for students either, how are they supposed to learn when they are either not taught or they simply refuse to actually do anything thats if they attend classes. Thailand needs teachers to actually have an education level and qualifications where they are able to teach students properly and the students need to be made to attend class and do the work set out before them, made to sit exams and then have those marks used to approve the next step in their education, not simply given a pass mark to save face. After school services are massive here because no one learns at school, they have to attend these special schools so that they get some sort of education, really have to wonder just who it is that is making sure the students have do this and how much control they have on these learning centres, wouldnt mind betting that there is a lot of envelopes/cake boxes exchanging hands to ensure these centres are needed when the students should be learning all this in the schools themselves.

Edited September 2, 2016 by seajae

[geovalin]

I have one daughter in M6 and one in M5. One with the current system and one with the new (which looks old).

Today, M5 came back home and told that she heard the authorities have so much troubles to implement the new system that the this year M5 (next year M6) could keep the same current system. New system could be implemented later. Yesterday it was "system will change", today it's "system will not change", what about tomorrow.

With my M6 daughter, I understand the system and it's not that bad because she can choose the faculty. Well I'll be able to have an opinion within one or two months when she'll have succeed the enter exams. Of course if she fails, I'll be less optimistic.

Regarding the new system (for M5), it' looks like a lottery.

 

If you hear what will be the final decision of the Ministry, regarding the current M5, please post.

[debate101]

This gives way too much power to the typically unskilled, unscrupulous political appointees in charge of NIETS. Now, they will have total, opaque control of the fates of all graduating students while remaining unassailable and unaccountable to the public. Regardless of the reasons given, anybody familiar enough with the situation can see what this really means. What a nightmare.

[gandalf12]

11 hours ago, lvr181 said:

 

Because "loss of face" accompanies that? What is more important?   

I like your argument but it does equate to not losing face is the same as arrogance.

[Scotwight]

11 hours ago, Detectorist said:

The Thai education system is put in place by the Thai Government in order to keep the population uneducated. Thus, education reform changes are announced and made every 6 months.

I know you probably are an authority on education but I doubt there is anyone in the Thai education system who would know how to keep the population uneducated and not have a shortage of doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers and all the other professions that make up the 500,000 Thai college graduates per year.  

[Kasset Tak]

On 9/2/2016 at 9:54 AM, Fookhaht said:

Well this explains a lot.  

I came to Thailand in 2001, at the start of the current system, teaching only at the tertiary level.

I've noticed a continual downhill slide in the caliber of students being admitted every year.  The dropout rate in freshmen classes has continued to climb precipitously.  In 2001-2002, an average of  1-2 students might drop from a first-year class (5%).    In the last three years, the rate has climbed up to 30%.   

The first semester, freshman year,  is an exercise in baby sitting--trying to condition students to arriving at class on time,  arriving at class at all,  following simple instructions, handing in work within a reasonable window of time, and doing their own work (translation:  stop cheating).  Clearly, we are getting students who have never learned these basic skills at the high school level.  This is across the board--classes taught both in Thai and English.   The battle has made we instructors wonder who is at the wheel of the admissions systems.    Apparently clueless policymakers. 

It's not only the admission system that has failed, today's grading system is a bigger part of the problem:

* I was basically told to leave or get fired at my first teaching job here in Thailand, all because I gave students grade 0.

* In 2 different private BKK universities the administrative staff changed the grades to 3.5-4 for all students even though I had given most of them grades between 1 and 2.

* At my current workplace it's getting near the end of the semester and again I have students that has been present less than 50% of the time and still the director tell me to give the students atleast grade 1.

The college also want to send students overseas for either studies or On The Job Training. That's OK for SOME of my students but those students who are only studying with Thai teachers has a big problem, my 2 best student got 4.5 and 5 on the IELTS while the 2 Thai English teachers here got 3.5.

 

And before the grammar police or anyone else start complaining;  I'm not a NES and I'm not an English teacher, I'm teaching agricultural subjects in English or as I use to say "I'm not a teacher, I'm a buffalo farmer.".

[Winniedapu]

On 9/2/2016 at 9:40 PM, Scotwight said:

I know you probably are an authority on education but I doubt there is anyone in the Thai education system who would know how to keep the population uneducated and not have a shortage of doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers and all the other professions that make up the 500,000 Thai college graduates per year.  

 

Two small problems, though what you think should be right.

 

Firstly, one doesn't have to decide to keep people uneducated, all one needs to do is not to educate them. Keep teachers poorly educated and half the battle is won. I doubt the decision is made at Permanent Secretary level, it comes down from on high, not in the words 'don't educate' but Sir Humphrey-style. But make no mistake, whether through deliberate policy of by deliberately putting incompetent people in positions of influence, the command comes down from on high which will have the effect of keeping Thais uneducated.

 

The rich people though, they have leeway denied to the non-rich.

 

No, I'm not an expert on education though I have taught in Thailand. I am a behaviourist though. I do understand why people do stuff, though I often wish I didn't and was more blissful in relative ignorance. I have to admit that understanding people brings with it a measure of contempt. I really don't like most people very much.

 

Winnie

Edited September 3, 2016 by Winniedapu

[seajae]

On 9/2/2016 at 9:40 PM, Scotwight said:

I know you probably are an authority on education but I doubt there is anyone in the Thai education system who would know how to keep the population uneducated and not have a shortage of doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers and all the other professions that make up the 500,000 Thai college graduates per year.  

Winnie is spot on about this, the teachers are that bad and uneducated that the students have no hope of learning from them. Our daughter is in a class of 30, the best 30 students in all of the south, their class is supposed to be taught the stronger subjects by the best teachers yet she has to do after school studies because the teachers are simply not that good. Apart from this class all the others are  not even equivalent of year 7(1st year at secondary school) in Australia yet they are the final year of schooling here, the reason is the teachers and the students dont care, this is the problem, no one apart from the smart kids really care about learning. Maybe if the teachers had the right qualifications to teach it would be different but then they would have to change the attitude of the students as well because most dont give a stuff. Teachers should be university trained and specialize in set subjects, english, maths, science etc & the true subjects  need to be taught not the thai version because they are all wrong. Ever wonder why any university graduate going to a western country needs to sit exams to show they do actually have the knowledge their certificates state, in Australia they are not even recognized due to the standards here, the only reason they pass here is because the bar is set so low so they dont lose face, dont believe it look at the doctors that were caught out cheating on their exams, the teachers doing the same, its a laugh at best

 

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by seajae

[Scotwight]

5 minutes ago, seajae said:

Winnie is spot on about this, the teachers are that bad and uneducated that the students have no hope of learning from them. Our daughter is in a class of 30, the best 30 students in all of the south, their class is supposed to be taught the stronger subjects by the best teachers yet she has to do after school studies because the teachers are simply not that good. Apart from this class all the others are  not even equivalent of year 7(1st year at secondary school) in Australia yet they are the final year of schooling here, the reason is the teachers and the students dont care, this is the problem, no one apart from the smart kids really care about learning. Maybe if the teachers had the right qualifications to teach it would be different but then they would have to change the attitude of the students as well because most dont give a stuff. Teachers should be university trained and specialize in set subjects, english, maths, science etc & the true subjects  need to be taught not the thai version because they are all wrong. Ever wonder why any university graduate going to a western country needs to sit exams to show they do actually have the knowledge their certificates state, in Australia they are not even recognized due to the standards here, the only reason they pass here is because the bar is set so low so they dont lose face, dont believe it look at the doctors that were caught out cheating on their exams, the teachers doing the same, its a laugh at best

Teachers in the West sit exams after graduation?  Ya sure. 

[Scotwight]

29 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Two small problems, though what you think should be right.

 

Firstly, one doesn't have to decide to keep people uneducated, all one needs to do is not to educate them. Keep teachers poorly educated and half the battle is won. I doubt the decision is made at Permanent Secretary level, it comes down from on high, not in the words 'don't educate' but Sir Humphrey-style. But make no mistake, whether through deliberate policy of by deliberately putting incompetent people in positions of influence, the command comes down from on high which will have the effect of keeping Thais uneducated.

 

The rich people though, they have leeway denied to the non-rich.

 

No, I'm not an expert on education though I have taught in Thailand. I am a behaviourist though. I do understand why people do stuff, though I often wish I didn't and was more blissful in relative ignorance. I have to admit that understanding people brings with it a measure of contempt. I really don't like most people very much.

 

Winnie

In America we dumb em down with teachers unions.  Do the leaders in America want dumb kids?  I don't think they are smart enough to know how to get smart or dumb ones.  In America we put the smart kids in one school and addict the others to drugs and put them in prison but I don't think it's on purpose. 

[seajae]

3 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Teachers in the West sit exams after graduation?  Ya sure. 

In Australia they have to go through university and get their diploma's before becoming teachers, not simply sit a test  with a heap of others that have received no specialist training to become a teacher 

 

[Scotwight]

4 minutes ago, seajae said:

In Australia they have to go through university and get their diploma's before becoming teachers, not simply sit a test  with a heap of others that have received no specialist training to become a teacher 

 

In America they get a teachers degree.  For example there is a biology course for biology majors and a biology course for elementary education majors.  The biology course for elementary education majors could be passed by the average 12 year old Burmese student who does not speak English if you get my meaning.  It would be nice if there were some kind of centralized testing like for doctors and lawyers but teaching in America attracts the people who couldn't get hired by MacDonald's and it would eliminate too many teachers. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Scotwight

[Rhys]

Follow the money...

[wotsdermatter]

My first job in Thailand, 1996, was at Rajabat in Nakhom Pathom.  After asking every Thai instructor what the grade requirements were for the department, I was told by all that that was up to me.  There were two volunteer instructors from the USA, one with a master degree in TEFL from Michigan State.  They both told me they started their passing grades at 60 and so I informed all of my students of my grading system; anything over 60 was assigned an appropriate grade but the cut-off of 59 and under was a fail.  I was appalled at the level the students were functioning at and they struggled to understand the simplest of written and spoken information. They were pushed way beyond their usual low levels because they had assignments to do and complete by specific dates, etc.  Only a few failed but the  reaction of the Thai instructors when students failed was to "gang" up  on me and they said the pass mark should have been set at 40 and up.  The head of the department met with some of them then had a meeting with me.  She asked if the students had been informed of the grading system I would use and she was shown my record book with all of the details outlined in it.  She accepted that. I confronted all of the Thai instructors and pointed out that their complaints were not justified as they had been asked on my first day what the acceptable grading system was and I told them of their response to my question.  A week later, I was asked to leave the establishment because some of the instructors had met with the person in charge of the institute and laid out complaints.  I was never told what the complaints were, although I guessed what they were.  One one instructor and the head of the department continued to talk to me after my confronting them although instructors from other departments did and some informed me that the complaints were done out of spite and jealousy because my grades were higher than the others and the students had reached out and performed beyond everybody's expectations.  Thar was my introduction to a very poor and weak education system.  Incidentally, I taught tourism and English literature.