British driver in collision on the Dark Side, Pattaya. Biker killed

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, spetersen said:

I just found out from my son who was a schoolmate to the boy, that the pickup truck came  out from a moo ban with now lights and entered the road without stopping, and the poor boy smashed in the rear en of the Truck. if this is the real case it won't be hard to determine the fault.

 

I'm sorry your son lost a friend. How much credence would you give to kids discussing this at school ?

 

Not to put any negative slant on this, however, I lost a friend in my early 20's in an RTA. The rumours going around were quite varied and impossible to substantiate... ranging from the 'other driver was playing with their radio' to 'the other driver was sleepy' etc... 

 

I imagine kids at school have quite some imagination and there are plenty of stories...... I also imagine that if the area was dark that the driver would have a huge amount of difficulty in seeing himself without turning on his lights. 

 

Certainly more information is needed before we are able to discuss accountability with any level of accuracy. 

[jimmybkk]

The last accident I had involved a guy on a motorbike making a crazy attempt to go round the front of my truck at a crossroads despite the fact that I was almost completely across the junction. He mis-timed it, I didn't see him coming, he took a flyer... and ended up with a few cuts and bruises, but nothing too serious. It happened right in front of a motorbike taxi stand, and notably the taxi guys barely moved during the whole incident.

 

The insurance guy that showed up was first class. Took control of the situation... established it wasn't my fault... and was having none of it when the bike rider got a bit mouthy. His parting words to me were along the lines of: If they ask you for money don't pay - you did nothing wrong and you have insurance... In fact I was so impressed with the way he handled everything that I wrote a letter of commendation to my insurance company to tell them, which is something I've never done before.

 

No cops arrived at the scene and I was told to go to Soi 9 to make a report. Did that and was told to come back the next day, to get things wrapped up. The next day I sat and listened while the rider and his gf gave their version of events to the 2 cops handling the case. I can understand enough Thai to know they were spouting a load of BS and were trying to pin the blame on me. After about 20 minutes of this I'd had enough and decided I needed my side of the story to be heard, so took the stage and explained what really happened. My final summary statement (which I had given some thought to) was that I hadn't done anything wrong, the assessor from the insurance company felt the same way and the ultimate proof of my innocence was the fact that the accident had happened right in front of a motorbike taxi stand, and if I was in the wrong those guys would have made sure everyone knew it, but they didn't...

 

At this point I had imagined I would rest my case and exit centre stage, with the cops nodding sagely with a look of "the farang has a point..." on their faces. But instead the unforeseen happened... No sooner had my final words left my mouth than everyone involved (cops, rider + gf + couple of their friends, insurance guy etc.), with almost perfect synchronicity and great comedy timing, turned their heads in unison towards the left side of the room... where an older guy with grey hair and a motorbike taxi vest was sitting... I hadn't noticed him previously but sure enough, they had managed to find themselves an eyewitness...

 

And so for the next 20 minutes I sat there with my best "You have got to be kidding me"  look on my face whilst the old boy did his best to help them throw me under the bus. (I don't even think he was actually there when the accident happened). To my surprise, and to their credit, the cops were having none of it and questioned his version of events quite vigorously. To the extent that by the end of it all he wandered out of the place looking like he regretted ever getting involved and breathing a sigh of relief that he hadn't got into trouble for giving false evidence.

 

The icing on the cake was when after it was confirmed by the cops that I was not at fault, despite having listened to them lie through their teeth, introduce a dodgy witness and basically do their utmost to drop me in the sh!t with the cops, the rider and his gf came over and asked me if i would help out with some cash to cover his doctor's bill... Priceless!

 

At the end of the day I could not fault the actions of the insurance guy nor the cops in any way whatsoever. So it's certainly not a foregone conclusion that the farang will always be held to blame.

[JSixpack]

7 hours ago, bark said:

They get from the insurance company who fixed your car or truck.

Standard Practice. My insurance friend told me.

 

My case had nothing whatsoever to do with insurance. Duh. I don't think you've had any firsthand experience but are just parroting what somebody or other told you.

Edited September 9, 2016 by JSixpack

[spetersen]

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'm sorry your son lost a friend. How much credence would you give to kids discussing this at school ?

 

Not to put any negative slant on this, however, I lost a friend in my early 20's in an RTA. The rumours going around were quite varied and impossible to substantiate... ranging from the 'other driver was playing with their radio' to 'the other driver was sleepy' etc... 

 

I imagine kids at school have quite some imagination and there are plenty of stories...... I also imagine that if the area was dark that the driver would have a huge amount of difficulty in seeing himself without turning on his lights. 

 

Certainly more information is needed before we are able to discuss accountability with any level of accuracy. 

It's just so sad , and we have talked about this at home a lot the last couple of days, and the only thing we can say is that the Police have to step up to their  plate and do there job on the roads, not trying to get fines for those not wearing a helmet or are not insured or maybe lacking a drivers licens and picking on there cellphones. But what they are doing  is an easy way to collect some money and let the day go by. This has to stop , put in the military to help this helpless police officers to do their job, teach them something  good for once... Get the PM involved, it concerns all of us Expats, Farangs, Tourists and of course the whole Thai people. LIFE IS PRECIOUS TO ALL OF US regardless of origin and don't forget that.

Edited September 9, 2016 by spetersen
Misspelling and wording

[johnnybgood]

15 hours ago, spetersen said:

I just found out from my son who was a schoolmate to the boy, that the pickup truck came  out from a moo ban with now lights and entered the road without stopping, and the poor boy smashed in the rear en of the Truck. if this is the real case it won't be hard to determine the fault.

 

That's about right. When you look at the damage to the truck and know where the accident occurred,

it's not difficult to imagine what happened.

RIP young Thai man.

[Ace of Pop]

 

That's about right. When you look at the damage to the truck and know where the accident occurred,

it's not difficult to imagine what happened.

RIP young Thai man.

He's aMan in the OP,now he's a Boy .


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[hubahuba]

So farang drives be warned. If you are involved in an accident?? no matter if you were not the cause of the accident?? You will be automatically be deemed guilty by the police,because if you were not in Thailand driving the vehicle the accident would never have happened. That is Thai logic.!

 

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, hubahuba said:

So farang drives be warned. If you are involved in an accident?? no matter if you were not the cause of the accident?? You will be automatically be deemed guilty by the police,because if you were not in Thailand driving the vehicle the accident would never have happened. That is Thai logic.!

 

Just not true, these bar room legends abound, my experience is completely different

[soalbundy]

23 hours ago, mercman24 said:

why all this debate, those that LIVE HERE know the score, " farang he drive big truck, he rich man" although as you have read on this thread, even though a farang maybe totally innocent of any accident, he pays every time, (or his insurance does) this is Thailand. law of the jungle. first pay cops, pass go, then pay the guilty party, you can't make this crap up

you apparently do

[KBsinter]

I'm afraid I have to confirm (if Falang not here not happen) this syndrome is firmly entrenched

within the Thai mentality,on 3 different occasions no less,your while life here is similar to a school

play ground live it or leave it LOL.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, KBsinter said:

I'm afraid I have to confirm (if Falang not here not happen) this syndrome is firmly entrenched

within the Thai mentality,on 3 different occasions no less,your while life here is similar to a school

play ground live it or leave it LOL.

well your experiences differ to mine but i don't live in an area dominated by tourists which probably makes a difference, a small country town where everybody seems to know or be acquainted with everybody else makes for a friendly community, speaking Thai helps as well. I often stop for a chat with policemen on duty so i am quite well known. 

[richard_smith237]

   2 hours ago,  KBsinter said: 

I'm afraid I have to confirm (if Falang not here not happen) this syndrome is firmly entrenched

within the Thai mentality,on 3 different occasions no less,your while life here is similar to a school

play ground live it or leave it LOL.

 

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

well your experiences differ to mine but i don't live in an area dominated by tourists which probably makes a difference, a small country town where everybody seems to know or be acquainted with everybody else makes for a friendly community, speaking Thai helps as well. I often stop for a chat with policemen on duty so i am quite well known. 

 

 

 

I've lived hear in Bangkok nearly 20 years - I too have never encountered this "foreigners always wrong" approach from the Thai's...  I have always felt I've been treated with exactly the same level of indifference with which Thai's treat each other... 

 

I do wonder if those who have talk of this 'syndrome' have actually encountered it, or is it just 'bar talk'.

 

I accept that some Thai's will try to use comments such as above to gain any advantage over a Westerner in an accident, but those same Thai's would use any advantage over each other. I find that for the most part, we are not treated any differently.

[louse1953]

On 9/8/2016 at 3:10 PM, biggles45 said:

"Why cost money cos someone ran into him?

I would imagine its easy to see who is to blame if the truck was hit from the side."

 

That doesn't mean much in Thailand, when the driver is a foreigner, family will demand financial compensation. A guy I knew was driving south on Soi Buakaow at night and intended to turn left. A Thai man on a motorbike, no lights, on the wrong side of the road, no helmet and driving fast ran into him. The Thai guy was killed and subsequently found to be drunk.

 

The family wanted 500,000 baht, but insurance only covered to 200,000 so the police were 'handling' negotiations. They certainly never told the family that the dead man was at fault and no money was due.  I never heard the outcome as I was off to Philippines. 

The family can ask all they like but you would be a mug to pay.

[louse1953]

On 9/9/2016 at 2:52 PM, mercman24 said:

why all this debate, those that LIVE HERE know the score, " farang he drive big truck, he rich man" although as you have read on this thread, even though a farang maybe totally innocent of any accident, he pays every time, (or his insurance does) this is Thailand. law of the jungle. first pay cops, pass go, then pay the guilty party, you can't make this crap up

Well you just did.

[louse1953]

On 9/9/2016 at 4:28 PM, spetersen said:

I just found out from my son who was a schoolmate to the boy, that the pickup truck came  out from a moo ban with now lights and entered the road without stopping, and the poor boy smashed in the rear en of the Truck. if this is the real case it won't be hard to determine the fault.

So dead boys tell tales now.

[louse1953]

On 9/8/2016 at 10:48 PM, ableguy said:

Compulsory driving test for the aged, are you joking ? Half the people on the road don't even have a license let alone insurance, there is no law on Thai roads it's a do as you please situation, not Thai bashing stating fact.

" Half the people on the road don't even have a license "

How would you know that.Urban myth.

[Rimmer]

Troll post from a returned banned member have been removed

[Classic Ray]

Collision investigation is a science carried out in the UK by highly trained specialised police officers in cases of serious injury, multiple vehicles/casualties or death.

 

They have the benefit of the best equipment, training, and forensic support, and find out the facts of what happened, rather than the opinions of those involved or onlookers, who often prove to be unreliable witnesses, either for self protection or mistake.

 

I have never seen or heard of any specialised or trained officers in Thailand undertaking any collision investigation. Speculation by Thaivisa members is about as far as it goes. Believe what you like.  

 

Also on the subject of licences, a Tourist policeman dealing with the last idiot to collide with me told me that upwards of 90% of Thai motorcyclists have neither licence nor insurance. Certainly fits with my experience in Chiang Mai when none of the seven motorcyclists who have collided with me had documents.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Classic Ray

[onemorechang]

2 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

in Chiang Mai when none of the seven motorcyclists who have collided with me had documents.

 

That's a lot of accidents, 7 is a big number

maybe you need to do some rider  training yourself.

Are you just that unlucky ?

 

 

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, onemorechang said:

 

That's a lot of accidents, 7 is a big number

maybe you need to do some rider  training yourself.

Are you just that unlucky ?

 

 

 

17 years driving here... 3 accidents... well, 5 if you count the 2 motorcycles that left a scratch on the sides of my bumper but just waived their hand to apologise and rode off !... 

 

The point there is that motorbikes weaving through the traffic can easily scratch your car, especially when as in my case the traffic is very slow moving and they weave through gaps at your bumper which are hardly there... 

 

So, if you have been driving here any length of time 7 minor scratches from motorcycles weaving through traffic is not excessive... 

 

With regards to the Cars I was involve in an accident with: 

1: Taxi - he had no Insurance [Reversed into the side of my car in a Car park - no major damage, I told the taxi to go, my insurance covered the repair].

 

2: Mini-Van - No Insurance & No Licence [Van tried to overtake me while I was turning right - Tried to pin the blame on me - Police wouldn't accept his story, got angry at him when he kept lying, accepted my story, I accepted 50:50 blame to speed up the process which took over a day].

 

3: Private Car - Fully licensed & Insured [Driver tried to overtake me in a multi-storey while I was hesitating and going slowly looking for a space - The other driver tried to pin the blame on me - my Insurance said 50:50 (I thought so too - I figured I was at least partially responsible as the other driver thought I was or had stopped), the driver wouldn't accept this and wanted 100% blame proportioned to me and threatened me with the Police... so, I agreed to meet at the Police Station, but threatened back that if we do go to the Police Station I will go for Zero Blame and push 100% on the other driver and charge for damages if I win... we agreed on 50:50 and that was that].

 

In my experience the other parties did try it on - but I was treated fairly by all others involved and concerned. 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by richard_smith237

[onemorechang]

17 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

17 years driving here... 3 accidents... well, 5 if you count the 2 motorcycles that left a scratch on the sides of my bumper but just waived their hand to apologise and rode off !... 

 

The point there is that motorbikes weaving through the traffic can easily scratch your car, especially when as in my case the traffic is very slow moving and they weave through gaps at your bumper which are hardly there... 

 

So, if you have been driving here any length of time 7 minor scratches from motorcycles weaving through traffic is not excessive... 

 

Well,  a scratch down the car dont count.

I must be a incredibly,  lucky lucky lucky bugger,    as 20 years, 5 as a tourist and 15 full time here, and over 150,000 km driving and riding here,   i dont have a number near yours.

i wont tempt fate ,  but we are miles  apart on the score card.

accidents do happen ,   but 7 is a lot, i would say.

if it was 7 consisting of being T- boned or rear ended,   fair enough , but if not,    i would question peoples driving or riding skills with a number like that.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by onemorechang

[spetersen]

On September 10, 2016 at 8:03 PM, louse1953 said:

So dead boys tell tales now.

You must be stupid, can't you read ....

[Classic Ray]

It was a lot of collisions, but incredibly none my fault, according to the police who attended nearly every one. First one stopped at red light on motorcycle, rear ended by a drunken Thai motorcyclist at speed, he came off worst. Second, knocked off by red bus driver, not motorcyclist, who turned into my lane without using mirror or indicators. Third was car driver as well who turned into the road I was travelling on on my side of road, panicked and accelerated into me instead of braking. The rest were all motorcycles hitting my car one way or another, most often when I was stationary or nearly so. I am afraid Chiang Mai has a large proportion of unskilled drivers and motorcyclists, usually no helmets, many from hill tribes or Myanmar, lots of students and schoolchildren riders and zero training or enforcement. Average traffic speeds are higher in CM than BKK due to less traffic, which also leads to more collisions. I wouldn't describe any as accidents, all down to carelessness, impatience or excess speed. My skills have been honed by over forty years of experience and training as a UK police driver, but nothing prepares you for Thai madness and lack of proper road engineering, signage etc.

[balo]

74 year old driver of a truck at night ,  you should drive very carefully at low speeds , but the impact looks to be really hard. Too many people here that should avoid driving at night , both locals and foreigners. 

 

[Rimmer]

Troll post  removed

[onemorechang]

13 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

It was a lot of collisions, but incredibly none my fault, according to the police who attended nearly every one. First one stopped at red light on motorcycle, rear ended by a drunken Thai motorcyclist at speed, he came off worst. Second, knocked off by red bus driver, not motorcyclist, who turned into my lane without using mirror or indicators. Third was car driver as well who turned into the road I was travelling on on my side of road, panicked and accelerated into me instead of braking. The rest were all motorcycles hitting my car one way or another, most often when I was stationary or nearly so. I am afraid Chiang Mai has a large proportion of unskilled drivers and motorcyclists, usually no helmets, many from hill tribes or Myanmar, lots of students and schoolchildren riders and zero training or enforcement. Average traffic speeds are higher in CM than BKK due to less traffic, which also leads to more collisions. I wouldn't describe any as accidents, all down to carelessness, impatience or excess speed. My skills have been honed by over forty years of experience and training as a UK police driver, but nothing prepares you for Thai madness and lack of proper road engineering, signage etc.

 

Ok fair enough,  still a bit high. 

 

Thai riders and drivers are the worst,  they even kill there own children with there 

100% selfish  attitude towards others.  

 

 

 

[Golden Triangle]

With respect to spetersen and RIP to the dead boy & condolences to his family I still wonder why parents allow their schoolchildren with no licence, no insurance & no helmet to ride their bikes at night (or any time for that matter) It seriously bothers me.

 

As a teenager and later as a 20 year old patrolling the streets of Belfast I knew no fear, I was bullet proof, and unfortunately so are the rest of the youth growing up in todays world, no matter what country they come from. As a 13 year old I wanted an old moped to ride around the local park, my parents put their foot down and said "no way", That probably saved my life.

 

I'm going out in a while for a bite to eat and a couple of beers, her in doors will drive back as she doesn't drink alcohol, any one want to put a number of bikes we will see during the very short drive, maybe 5 kms, with no lights or helmets ? 

 

The responsibility lies with the parents, don't let your children who have no licence, insurance, helmet or lights on the roads.

 

Maybe we could start some sort of crowd funding event to fund buying the under privileged families helmets for their offspring along with light bulbs and proving awareness of the wrongs of driving with no insurance or licence........ Sorry that should be a government initiative shouldn't it.

 

Please parents, don't let your kids ride or drive until they are legal. A wasted plea I know, but you never know..........................   

[onemorechang]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

With respect to spetersen and RIP to the dead boy & condolences to his family I still wonder why parents allow their schoolchildren with no licence, no insurance & no helmet to ride their bikes at night (or any time for that matter) It seriously bothers me.

 

As a teenager and later as a 20 year old patrolling the streets of Belfast I knew no fear, I was bullet proof, and unfortunately so are the rest of the youth growing up in todays world, no matter what country they come from. As a 13 year old I wanted an old moped to ride around the local park, my parents put their foot down and said "no way", That probably saved my life.

 

I'm going out in a while for a bite to eat and a couple of beers, her in doors will drive back as she doesn't drink alcohol, any one want to put a number of bikes we will see during the very short drive, maybe 5 kms, with no lights or helmets ? 

 

The responsibility lies with the parents, don't let your children who have no licence, insurance, helmet or lights on the roads.

 

Maybe we could start some sort of crowd funding event to fund buying the under privileged families helmets for their offspring along with light bulbs and proving awareness of the wrongs of driving with no insurance or licence........ Sorry that should be a government initiative shouldn't it.

 

Please parents, don't let your kids ride or drive until they are legal. A wasted plea I know, but you never know..........................   

 

Many Thai parents are just lazy,   and get the kids bikes,     so they can get themselves to school instead of them doing it .

But the list of things parents are guilty of with regards to there children in Thai society is

very long. 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by onemorechang

[jimmybkk]

On 11/09/2016 at 8:09 PM, Classic Ray said:

Collision investigation is a science carried out in the UK by highly trained specialised police officers in cases of serious injury, multiple vehicles/casualties or death.

 

They have the benefit of the best equipment, training, and forensic support, and find out the facts of what happened, rather than the opinions of those involved or onlookers, who often prove to be unreliable witnesses, either for self protection or mistake.

 

I have never seen or heard of any specialised or trained officers in Thailand undertaking any collision investigation. Speculation by Thaivisa members is about as far as it goes. Believe what you like.  

 

Also on the subject of licences, a Tourist policeman dealing with the last idiot to collide with me told me that upwards of 90% of Thai motorcyclists have neither licence nor insurance. Certainly fits with my experience in Chiang Mai when none of the seven motorcyclists who have collided with me had documents.

I witnessed this first hand in the UK about 25 years ago - right opposite where I was doing a training course on Brixton Hill an accident had occurred and i guess it was serious. I think it involved a car and a pedestrian based on the fact that the car didn't suffer much damage. There were skid marks on the road and so the cops kept the car at the scene and fitted to the back of it a contraption that fired what looked like chalk onto the road when the brake pedal was depressed. In exactly the same spot where the accident occurred they then proceeded to attempt to replicate the skid mark by driving the car up the road numerous times, at varying speeds, and then slam on the brakes causing the contraption to fire a shot of chalk onto the road. They would then measure the distance from the chalk mark to the end of this skid mark at the various different speeds, presumably to establish what speed the car was going when the accident occurred.

 

It was quite fascinating to watch. Took them half the day and caused all kinds of traffic problems, but I guess with no cameras back in those days it was the best way of assessing accountability.