Don't use power tools with sweaty hands !

[Beachcomber]

Been doing some work round the house these last few days. With the humidity at this time I sweat like a pig doing even the smallest job. Even a simple job like sweeping the floor will have me leaving a trail of sweaty puddles on the floor.

I hate how the sweat runs down my legs and pools on the flip flops, makes them all slidey and slippery and my feet keep slipping off. I hate hate hate that. 

 

So I was standing on the concrete floor out back in my usual puddle of sweat doing some grinding when I felt a little jolt which I just thought was the grinding wheel catching on something. Checking all was clear I started the angle grinder again and before the wheel even touched any metal I got such a jolt that almost made me drop the grinder. Luckily I managed to hold onto the grinder and switch it off before it dropped wheel still spinning on my feet. 

This was definitely an electric shock and on checking further saw that the sweat from my hands had run into the vent slats at the rear of the grinder where the power cable goes in and obviously touched the live supply.

 

I have 3pin properly earthed sockets that I use with any work outside and the whole house is protected by a Safe-T-Cut unit but the grinder only has a two pin plug so I don't know if the Safe-T-Cut would should trip. It didn't when I got my shock.

The grinder is a Genuine Bosh so no possibility of cheap/dangerous  Chinese unit. 

 

So just a heads up stay safe and don't use power tools with sweaty hands. 

 

Or maybe borrow the wife's Marigolds 

 

[Crossy]

 

Sweat is salty water, so no surprise it conducts electricity. That said, it's unusual to get a shock from a double-insulated power tool even with sweaty hands.

 

I would carefully examine the power cord where it enters the tool, the insulation could have chafed over the years, while you have it apart clean out any debris which may be helping the conduction process.

 

Your Safe-T-Cut won't prevent a shock but it should prevent you dying from a shock. It will work just fine on a Class-2 (double insulated) appliance like your grinder. If it's an adjustable one set it to the lowest trip current it will take without nuisance tripping.

 

Although we have a whole house 30mA RCD when using power tools outside I also use a traily with a built-in 15mA RCD, hopefully one will trip when I cut the hedge-trimmer cord.

 

Go and test your Safe-T-Cut by pressing the "Test" button, they have been known to get sticky if not tripped for a while (you should test regularly anyway).

 

[eyecatcher]

I must admit, i dont like grinders because they are so compact you have to clasp both hands around the main body quite tight.

in doping so you are covering those "vents" that you always see the flashes through.

 

Possibly the most dangerous power tool for personal safety; anything more dangerous???.

 

To the OP. if its getting too hot for you, relax, go buy and ice cream to cool down......shock-a-lot flavour maybe?

[manfredtillmann]

cheap and dangerous chinese??? check the label on your 'Bosch', unless it is 25 years old, it was probably made in china.

 

[Beachcomber]

"Crossy"  -  The grinder has not had much use so it's like new, no frayed wires that I could see.

Checked the Safe-T-Cut and it works fine, good to know any shock will "shock but not kill" I'll bear that in mind next time something goers wrong though at my age it may not need a fatal shock to be fatal 

 

Having a closer look at the grinder I do think that the way the wiring is so near the vents makes it more vulnerable than your average power tool.

 

"eyecatcher"  -  Don't like using grinders either, as you say got to hold them tight and then they can still get away from you. Unfortunately there are some jobs where only a grinder will do.

 

[tifino]

Once you've accepted that the shock - tingle etc isn't a killer, when an RCD or ELB is in circuit -  then she's all apples!!

 

Coming from a dairy farm; we grew up, being surrounded by electric fences...

- which sort of makes me a bit of a hardened worry-less dude, when it comes to zaps

[Emster23]

I always wear rubber sandals indoors just for shock saver. I assume every outlet is there to kill me if it can.

[Generalchaos]

Three pin with earth will not make a difference in this case. The electricity is trying to return to the source via neutral and will not travel via the earth. As has been said, check your breakers and make sure that they actually cut the power when open, some go faulty and leave the power connected.

[how241]

Good info and warning. Thanks

[F4UCorsair]

Wear leather gloves, always a good idea when working with something as lethal as an angle grinder.

They won't stop hand damage from a 'direct hit' but grazes will be OK, and they will stop sweat reaching the electrics.

[Crossy]

A troll post has been removed.

 

[Anthony5]

22 hours ago, tifino said:

Once you've accepted that the shock - tingle etc isn't a killer, when an RCD or ELB is in circuit -  then she's all apples!!

 

Coming from a dairy farm; we grew up, being surrounded by electric fences...

- which sort of makes me a bit of a hardened worry-less dude, when it comes to zaps

 

Oh I remember that electric fence in Switzerland on a youth scouts holiday.

 

Everyone walking in line holding the wire fence with one hand......................until Anthony passed some box that was mounted somewhere in the middle of the fence and felt underneath a switch which he moved to another position.

[AsianExport]

Flip flop and no clothes to absorb te sweat, you obviously are a champion ! Don't forget to ride your motorbike without helmet also !

[Stevemercer]

I always thought that the Thai electricity system was similar to the American system and the amperage was generally too low to cause a fatal shock for a healthy adult (unlike Australia where it is frequent)? But maybe that is just another urban myth. I've never worried too much about the odd short or shock when working around the house in Thailand because of this. However, I'm cautious working up on one of those tall Thai rickedy bamboo ladders in case the jolt causes me to loose my balance.

[Crossy]

@Stevemercer

 

Thailand is 220V 50Hz, like Australia, it also uses MEN, like Australia, 3-phase is 4-wire, like Australia.

 

Thailand generally requires a front end RCD (GFCI), like Australia (but often omitted in older installations) unlike the US .

 

It uses a US style outlet, like the US.

 

25mA (twenty five thousandths of an Amp) will kill you, a US outlet will happily provide >16 Amps without blinking (as will an Aussie or Thai outlet).

 

What makes you think Aussie power is less safe than the US?

[SOTIRIOS]

...absolutely...even ironing can be dangerous....

[Pacificperson]

I use an 18 volt, battery operated angle grinder most of the time. Its a whole lot less hassle than dealing with extension cords most of the time.

[max2u]

Methinks I've done the absent- minded corded tool blunder of blunders some years ago, while installing a saddle valve into small diameter copper pipe for an ice maker that was situated on the main floor of a house in the  States.

 

The water line ran along the basement ceiling. I'd (of course) shut the supply to the copper, and was drilling the necessary tap hole for the saddle valve. There was enough play in the copper at the point I was working, to need stabilizing, so with the free hand I pressed the pipe against an adjacent floor beam. I was drilling at about  45 degrees from the vertical, what I expected to be an easy overhead task.

 

While I'd opened the cold taps in both floors above to drain the line, I'd neglected to think about the nearly 2 meter column of water that stood above me, beyond positioning a plastic waste bin at my feet  to catch the drainage when drill broke through.

 

So, with one hand on the drill, and the other on a perfectly good, highly-conductive ground/earth,  I was more than surprised when the water went not  down into the bin, but streamed out directly into the vent holes of the drill, and all over my hand, sending current into the one hand and out the other.

 

I admit I dropped the drill, the bit point of which landed upon the toe of my sturdy work boot (got *that* part right), by which time most of the water above had run out, and in releasing the mains current from the one hand, rendered the grounding of the other hand immaterial.

 

The sensation of the cross-chest-both-arms electrical surge lingered for some time thereafter, while the sensation of "now THAT was one damnably stupid move!" still remains, umm, current.

Edited September 10, 2016 by max2u
word swap

[Songlaw]

On 9/9/2016 at 5:21 AM, Crossy said:

 

Sweat is salty water, so no surprise it conducts electricity. That said, it's unusual to get a shock from a double-insulated power tool even with sweaty hands.

 

I would carefully examine the power cord where it enters the tool, the insulation could have chafed over the years, while you have it apart clean out any debris which may be helping the conduction process.

 

Your Safe-T-Cut won't prevent a shock but it should prevent you dying from a shock. It will work just fine on a Class-2 (double insulated) appliance like your grinder. If it's an adjustable one set it to the lowest trip current it will take without nuisance tripping.

 

Although we have a whole house 30mA RCD when using power tools outside I also use a traily with a built-in 15mA RCD, hopefully one will trip when I cut the hedge-trimmer cord.

 

Go and test your Safe-T-Cut by pressing the "Test" button, they have been known to get sticky if not tripped for a while (you should test regularly anyway).

 

 

An amp would kill you 10 times in a second, were that possible. Meaning, it requires only .1 amperes to kill you in a second, or 1 amp, in a tenth of a second. However, the path of conduction would have to be directly through the heart, which is somewhat a matter of chance. So a Safe-T-Cut cannot be counted on to save you in the conditions outlined above. If you feel a shock, put the damn thing down, and find something else to do for a while. Also, working in front of a fan can make this a whole lot less challenging.

[Foexie]

handtools can only shock you if they are damaged.

 

Every handtool you buy since years are double insulated and aren't even connected to the earth of your socket. It is even forbidden.

 

Last year in my company they replaced damaged cords with 3 wire cords and after a technical inspection they were all rejected and we needed to replace the cords again with 2 wire cords without earth.

 

You can easely see that on the double square symbol on the tool.

[aussiandrew]

Plain and simple electricity can and will kill you if you are careful.

Ensure all your electrical equipment is in good working order this should also extend to all electrical appliance in and around our households and sheds. 

If possible plan your work at the cooler part of the day in the shade and use a fan as suggested earlier also leather gloves was mentioned.

Thank you for the timely reminder.

 

[coxo]

The same has happened to me on many occasions, if its humid and I'm sweating I now put a rag around the grinder to stop sweat getting in, it works.

[orpheus454]

13 hours ago, Pacificperson said:

I use an 18 volt, battery operated angle grinder most of the time. Its a whole lot less hassle than dealing with extension cords most of the time.

 

14.4v is fine. An amazing tool...

 

 

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, Stevemercer said:

I always thought that the Thai electricity system was similar to the American system and the amperage was generally too low to cause a fatal shock for a healthy adult (unlike Australia where it is frequent)? But maybe that is just another urban myth. I've never worried too much about the odd short or shock when working around the house in Thailand because of this. However, I'm cautious working up on one of those tall Thai rickedy bamboo ladders in case the jolt causes me to loose my balance.

It certainly is an urban myth. The level of current(amps) is derived from the voltage and resistance, low voltage and low resistance can produce very high current. Moisture on the skin substantially reduces the contact resistance and results in a much higher current flow, hence the warnings about water and wet hands.

The real danger is in the path that the electricity takes and if through the heart can very easily be lights out. If the current flows from the live connection through the heart to the neutral then no safety device on this earth is going to save you.

As far as the OP is concerned I suspect that moisture made its way into the internal connection and tracked through his hand to earth. This would affect the muscles in the hand and feel like a jolt rather than the full body tingling sensation you get when it passes through the feet. I have had more shocks than I care to remember , the worst was 450v DC, threw me to the floor and left a crater on my hand about quarter inch dia and the same depth.

Sweat is a problem, particularly in humid weather and I always work fully clothed to soak it up. A pair of cotton gloves helps to stop it running on to what you are handling.

[Autonuaq]

beside alle the good advise and the wearing of safety shoes there are a few things I always recommend to do,

 

Electricity is the silent killer and has a lot of power.

 

before you start checked the gronding of the installation that is s within the parameters.

check the automatic electronic fuses with the test button (at least monthly)

 

when you work it is wise to have extra protection add in the circuit an extra safety by adding a circuit break that cut the power if there is a difference of 30 Ma in normal condition and 40 MA in humid conditions.  before use use the test button to se if it still works.

 

then what ever happen you are quit safe and if leaking electricity the breaker will protect you and cut the circuit.

if correct translated in to English the name is of the device is a ground fault circuit breaker or ground fault circuit interrupter

 

working of the device is if the current in is not the same as the current out then the electrical circuit will be broken by the breaker.

 

a link to a site that has some explanation about the work of the device and why it is wise to have installed

http://www.electricaltechnology.org/2015/02/gfci-ground-fault-circuit-interrupter-types-working.html

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Autonuaq

[Wazza1]

It's called P.P.E, when using a grinder I always wear gloves and safety glasses and of course shoes and long pants that won't melt.

[F4UCorsair]

On 9/10/2016 at 9:28 PM, Stevemercer said:

I always thought that the Thai electricity system was similar to the American system and the amperage was generally too low to cause a fatal shock for a healthy adult (unlike Australia where it is frequent)? But maybe that is just another urban myth. I've never worried too much about the odd short or shock when working around the house in Thailand because of this. However, I'm cautious working up on one of those tall Thai rickedy bamboo ladders in case the jolt causes me to loose my balance.

 

 

Amps aren't what's supplied, volts are.  The total amperage (current) is limited by the main circuit breaker.  I think mine is 80 amps, and high draw appliances like the aircons have individual 40 amps CB's.  The oven has a 20 amp CB.

 

The total current that can be drawn is way over 80 amps, but the main CB is what was called in the days of fuses, a 'slow blow', so it allows for the aircons to use high current for the compressor start, and then drop way back, even if all three kick in at the same time, which is very unlikely.

 

The actual current drawn is set by the resistance presented to the voltage, and that can vary from individual to individual, depending on their body resistance, but as little as about 25 milliamps (25 thousandths of an amp) can kill you.

 

The kick from a welder, even though it can provide up to a couple of hundred amps for welding, is unlikely to kill you, because the voltage is only about 30-40, and your body resistance presented to that low voltage can't produce even the fatal range of about 25 mA.  My welder runs at about 30 volts and can provide 150 amps.

 

There is NO safe electricity, and if you receive a 'tingle', but continue working without taking any precautions, you may well die.

 

Every home should have a safety switch, called an Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker, as well as other device names, and it will save your life, because it cuts the power before the current can reach the fatal range.  If you're working with tools, and it pops, don't go back to work until you've established why, and/or taken precautions to ensure that the current path to earth is not via your body.

Edited September 11, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

On 9/10/2016 at 9:28 PM, Stevemercer said:

I always thought that the Thai electricity system was similar to the American system and the amperage was generally too low to cause a fatal shock for a healthy adult (unlike Australia where it is frequent)? But maybe that is just another urban myth. I've never worried too much about the odd short or shock when working around the house in Thailand because of this. However, I'm cautious working up on one of those tall Thai rickedy bamboo ladders in case the jolt causes me to loose my balance.

 

 

One thing I forgot to mention Steve, and that is there is NO safe electricity, in Thailand, Australia, US, or anywhere.  A volt doesn't know where it is.

 

You should be concerned about any electric shock, however insignificant you think it may be, and find the cause, as well as take precautions so you don't cop a fatal hit.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by F4UCorsair
addition

[MaiChai]

Electric fan really helps if you are working and sweating. Also try and work early morning if you can. You should try arc welding; that gets you hot in Thailand!

 

Second the rubber flip flops inside if you think you are at electrical risk. For me i never do electrics without them.

 

Is it me or are the electric cords dangerous on power tools in Thailand? Today had to rewire a drill as the cord shorted just before it enters the body. Second one i have had to do. 

[Wazza1]

On 12/09/2016 at 10:25 AM, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

One thing I forgot to mention Steve, and that is there is NO safe electricity, in Thailand, Australia, US, or anywhere.  A volt doesn't know where it is.

 

You should be concerned about any electric shock, however insignificant you think it may be, and find the cause, as well as take precautions so you don't cop a fatal hit.

 

 

 

Dont worry about the volts, they are not the thing that will kill you, it's the amps I worry about.