Yingluck voices strong opposition to using Section 44 to demand civil compensation

[williamgeorgeallen]

7 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

There have been many court proceedings already.  Lots of information has been gathered.  I hear what you are saying, but without S44, it might be 20 years before justice is served.  like in the Sondhi case.  If she's not guilty, then she has nothing to worry about.

in this country in the legal system you have everything to worry about regardless of weather you are guilty or not. you think those 2 kids did the murders on koh tao? i was done for no work permit when in reality i had some details wrong in my work permit. i turned up to court with my work permit and my lawyer snatched it from my hand and said plead guilty and pay the fine. the legal system is not the same as it is in the west. plenty of innocent people in jail.

[Dumbastheycome]

Isn,t  such a strong objection some form of admission of  guilt provoked by eventual expectations of  outcome? The debate  about   S44 being invoked in  any direct or indirect way has  not yet happened in Yinglucks personal situation ....yet.

 

 

[sharecropper]

6 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Isn,t  such a strong objection some form of admission of  guilt provoked by eventual expectations of  outcome? The debate  about   S44 being invoked in  any direct or indirect way has  not yet happened in Yinglucks personal situation ....yet.

 

 

 

Great name, great comment.

 

I'm sure this fantastic government has all the answers, so yes, you're probably right.

[kennw]

True, and for those who admire the progress that Singapore has made via semi-democratic process (to which USA has been notably silent) and now see PM Prayut using his 44 power to bring wrong doers to justice well done.  And, by the method that sends the most effective message " we will take your money back". House cleaning as stated at outset now taking place. Cheers.   

[yellowboat]

9 hours ago, halloween said:

The 3 stooges could have done a better job than Yingluk,

 

Yeah, Moe is running the country now.  Doing a great job chasing off investors and making the country less than interesting.

[sharecropper]

13 minutes ago, kennw said:

True, and for those who admire the progress that Singapore has made via semi-democratic process (to which USA has been notably silent) and now see PM Prayut using his 44 power to bring wrong doers to justice well done.  And, by the method that sends the most effective message " we will take your money back". House cleaning as stated at outset now taking place. Cheers.   

 

Rejoice. Rejoice at that news!

 

(This comment has been made in support of an almost-democratically elected 'government' which is just fantastic.)

[Thian]

12 hours ago, jcsmith said:

Whatever you think about her responsibility or whether or not she should be paying anything, if they invoke Section 44 for this, there's going to be a lot of backlash. It would be the equivalent of bypassing the legal system to take money from someone else without oversight which would be the equivalent of theft in the eyes of many.

 

Which legal system? 

 

 

[jcsmith]

1 hour ago, sharecropper said:

 

Rejoice. Rejoice at that news!

 

(This comment has been made in support of an almost-democratically elected 'government' which is just fantastic.)

What qualifies this government as almost-democratic? In what way is it at all democratic? It illegally grabbed power, then bypasses the legal system to enforce certain things, while ignoring certain other things (hello Suthep). There was never an election of any sort and doesn't seem like there will be one in a very long time. That's not democracy not even almost-democracy, it's something else entirely.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jcsmith

[craigt3365]

6 hours ago, jcsmith said:

What qualifies this government as almost-democratic? In what way is it at all democratic? It illegally grabbed power, then bypasses the legal system to enforce certain things, while ignoring certain other things (hello Suthep). There was never an election of any sort and doesn't seem like there will be one in a very long time. That's not democracy not even almost-democracy, it's something else entirely.

Agreed, but the junta never claimed what they did was democratic.  My point was S44 might be a good way to get through a dysfunctional Thai legal system.  Like the 20 years it took to prosecute Sondhi.  Sadly, other crimes don't get pursued very well.  Like the Mercedes Benz killer.  Welcome to Thailand.  Junta in control or not.

[sharecropper]

8 hours ago, kennw said:

6 hours ago, jcsmith said:

What qualifies this government as almost-democratic? In what way is it at all democratic? It illegally grabbed power, then bypasses the legal system to enforce certain things, while ignoring certain other things (hello Suthep). There was never an election of any sort and doesn't seem like there will be one in a very long time. That's not democracy not even almost-democracy, it's something else entirely.

 

 

I agree. My post was 100% sarcasm.

[DiamondKing]

19 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

There have been many court proceedings already.  Lots of information has been gathered.  I hear what you are saying, but without S44, it might be 20 years before justice is served.  like in the Sondhi case.  If she's not guilty, then she has nothing to worry about.

 

She has everything to worry about, its been a wtichhunt from the start, will they be charging the supreme one for the coup and the losses in tourism and the effect it had on the ecomony ??? 

EXACTLY

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, DiamondKing said:

 

She has everything to worry about, its been a wtichhunt from the start, will they be charging the supreme one for the coup and the losses in tourism and the effect it had on the ecomony ??? 

EXACTLY

A witchhunt with a valid legal basis.  They caught red handed top officials fabricating trade deals.  Along with many other violations of laws.  All under the watch of Yingluck.

[jobin]

In place like this, and china, north korea, etc, the guilt or innocence of any person belongs to the political leaders. The 'law' guys (attorneys and judges) have no say in the matter.

[baboon]

9 hours ago, kennw said:

True, and for those who admire the progress that Singapore has made via semi-democratic process (to which USA has been notably silent) and now see PM Prayut using his 44 power to bring wrong doers to justice well done.  And, by the method that sends the most effective message " we will take your money back". House cleaning as stated at outset now taking place. Cheers.   

Yeah, until you yourself fall foul of 44 and discover there is nowhere to hide, no recourse, no independent body to fight your case and stand a chance of winning. And you think that is just fine...

[Denim]

Maybe they can use 44 to claim civil compensation from the GT bomb detector scandal too. Then there is the police station scandal and so many other things.

 

But ......... all depends on who you are not what you've done.

[sharecropper]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

A witchhunt with a valid legal basis.  They caught red handed top officials fabricating trade deals.  Along with many other violations of laws.  All under the watch of Yingluck.

 

I think you're confusing criminal acts which the colluders of the fake rice deals would be guilty of, with not being a party to them, not knowing about them and having no culpability for them.

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, sharecropper said:

 

I think you're confusing criminal acts which the colluders of the fake rice deals would be guilty of, with not being a party to them, not knowing about them and having no culpability for them.

Impossible for the head of this country to not know about these events.  Especially when they were being communicated to her by a vast number of organizations and people.  Both inside and outside the Kingdom.  Responsibility lies at the top.

[spidermike007]

She has completely lost any moral authority. She is completey discredited as a politician. Her administration failed miserably to address any of Thailand's problems. She was incompetent beyond belief, and her hair brained rice, cassava, and rubber pledging schemes nearly broke the economy. She is a nincompoop. She should go into hiding. The last thing in the world she should do is speak out in this manner. She has absolutely nothing to say, and is about as discredited as Abhisit. Both were beyond incompetent. 

[sharecropper]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Impossible for the head of this country to not know about these events.  Especially when they were being communicated to her by a vast number of organizations and people.  Both inside and outside the Kingdom.  Responsibility lies at the top.

 

I'm glad you're not a judge. (Although you may be well qualified in Thailand).

 

That assumes she actually KNEW about these criminal acts. In which case, she should be in the dock with them. She's not though, so unless you have some new evidence on this particular rice conspiracy and her complicity, I'm guessing you're wrong.

 

Wouldn't this work the other way too. Like prosecuting the top dog now for all the ongoing corruption in the country? Responsibility lies at the top.

[thedivezone]

23 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

There have been many court proceedings already.  Lots of information has been gathered.  I hear what you are saying, but without S44, it might be 20 years before justice is served.  like in the Sondhi case.  If she's not guilty, then she has nothing to worry about.

 

 

"If she's not guilty, then she has  nothing to worry about."  . . . . . Haha . That's  hilarious  ! Nothing to worry about, obviously, since the thai judiciary have such an impeccable record of integrity and impartiality  . Will she get her sentence reduced by half if she pleads guilty ?

Love your sarcasm, man, keep it up !

[craigt3365]

35 minutes ago, sharecropper said:

 

I'm glad you're not a judge. (Although you may be well qualified in Thailand).

 

That assumes she actually KNEW about these criminal acts. In which case, she should be in the dock with them. She's not though, so unless you have some new evidence on this particular rice conspiracy and her complicity, I'm guessing you're wrong.

 

Wouldn't this work the other way too. Like prosecuting the top dog now for all the ongoing corruption in the country? Responsibility lies at the top.

If she didn't, then that's negligence as she was chair of the rice committee! LOL

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-defends-rice-scheme-in-high-court-30292284.html

 

Quote

The NACC accused her of failing to stop graft and losses over the rice programme in her capacity as prime minister and chairman of the National Rice Policy Committee.

 

This one is an out and out lie.  Many called for the scheme to be stopped.  She ignored them all:

 

Quote

"The scheme was run after the Cabinet's resolution. I myself could not stop the ongoing programme because no concerned agencies … called for its dissolution," she said.

 

Many were telling her this program had problems.  In this article, her advisers said they didn't agree.  They were advised and chose to ignore reports from various outside organizations:

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/thailand-crisis-in-thai-rice-pledging-scheme/

 

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/thailands-divisive-rice-scheme/

 

Quote

Democrat Party evidence attempting to link Yingluck to deals it says are fraudulent are based on a video submitted to the NACC in which she claims to have overseen every government-to-government agreement under her rice-pledging scheme as the executive.

 

 

[craigt3365]

Just now, thedivezone said:

"If she's not guilty, then she has  nothing to worry about."  . . . . . Haha . That's  hilarious  ! Nothing to worry about, obviously, since the thai judiciary have such an impeccable record of integrity and impartiality  . Will she get her sentence reduced by half if she pleads guilty ?

Love your sarcasm, man, keep it up !

Glad you understood my sarcasm!  It was....

[sharecropper]

8 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

If she didn't, then that's negligence as she was chair of the rice committee! LOL

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-defends-rice-scheme-in-high-court-30292284.html

 

 

This one is an out and out lie.  Many called for the scheme to be stopped.  She ignored them all:

 

 

Many were telling her this program had problems.  In this article, her advisers said they didn't agree.  They were advised and chose to ignore reports from various outside organizations:

http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/thailand-crisis-in-thai-rice-pledging-scheme/

 

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/thailands-divisive-rice-scheme/

 

 

 

 

I have no doubt that the scheme was negligently administered from a political perspective (but note how FEW have been prosecuted for actual theft etc - as all 'this lot' were up to their eyes in it too, of course, on the ground).

 

But there is a difference between sheer political incompetence or negligence and being part of a criminal conspiracy. 

[rubl]

Nothing has really changed I see. Still thesame distractions. Anyway, Ms. yingluck protests. Well, no surprise there and she has the right to protest. That's OK, keeps her legal team busy and so.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, thedivezone said:

 

 

"If she's not guilty, then she has  nothing to worry about."  . . . . . Haha . That's  hilarious  ! Nothing to worry about, obviously, since the thai judiciary have such an impeccable record of integrity and impartiality  . Will she get her sentence reduced by half if she pleads guilty ?

Love your sarcasm, man, keep it up !

 

Well look at the other side of the picture - her own gang of thieves pushed the judiciary to benefit their own ends and more to the point they (over some 12 years) did absolutely and totally nothing to make improvements in the judicial processes and push or demand that the Thai judiciary quickly change and become totally balanced and credible - nothing!. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by scorecard

[surangw]

time for her to join her brother and her  syphoned money out of the country ?

[craigt3365]

On 9/9/2016 at 5:26 PM, billd766 said:

 

IMHO I don't really think that Yingluck made anything out of this at all. What I do think is that she was put in as PM by her brother, did as she was asked/told to do, was guided by her ministers who were told to keep her out of the limelight and then knowledge of what went on with the ultimate fall back position as the person at the top whose responsibility it became.

 

Thaksin can be blamed if you will but he is not in the country and his sister isn't the first one in the family to be pushed under a bus.

 

Personally I feel sorry for her because she was out of her depth from day 1 and most probably cut out of what really went on so that if it all fell apart as it has she could rely on the I know nothing about anything defence.

The Shin clan made a lot out of this.  They made their associates a lot of money.  Guess who these associates will vote for next time?  And guess who'll they'll try to convince their associates to vote for next time?

 

I do believe you are right that her brother is the one responsible for this.  But Yingluck is a smart woman.  She did what she did on her own free will.  She has to accept the consequences for those actions.

[NongKhaiKid]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

The Shin clan made a lot out of this.  They made their associates a lot of money.  Guess who these associates will vote for next time?  And guess who'll they'll try to convince their associates to vote for next time?

 

I do believe you are right that her brother is the one responsible for this.  But Yingluck is a smart woman.  She did what she did on her own free will.  She has to accept the consequences for those actions.

Big brother is head of the family so she could try the Nuremberg Defence although it didn't work out too well for some.

[halloween]

On 10/09/2016 at 2:51 PM, sharecropper said:

 

I have no doubt that the scheme was negligently administered from a political perspective (but note how FEW have been prosecuted for actual theft etc - as all 'this lot' were up to their eyes in it too, of course, on the ground).

 

But there is a difference between sheer political incompetence or negligence and being part of a criminal conspiracy. 

The charge is negligence.

[Baerboxer]

On 9/9/2016 at 0:14 PM, craigt3365 said:

There have been many court proceedings already.  Lots of information has been gathered.  I hear what you are saying, but without S44, it might be 20 years before justice is served.  like in the Sondhi case.  If she's not guilty, then she has nothing to worry about.

 

Spot on as usual Craig. 

 

I doubt Yingluck has a thought in her head other than what her brother and her legal team tell her. And the latter will do all they can to deflect from the substance of cases and try to debate process, procedure, legal principles etc etc etc. All aimed at delay, more delay and will repeat that at Appeal and Supreme court level if necessary. 

 

Lawyers must make pots of money just out of delaying cases here. So Article 44 probably scares them shitless the gravy trains might stop.