Yingluck's assets seizure case to be wrapped up in few days: Dr Wisanu

[billd766]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

 

Um well of course not, its the army.......... therein lies a problem.

 

Would that have applied under any Thaksin government too?

[smutcakes]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

Would that have applied under any Thaksin government too?

 

Yes, the army are untouchable regardless who is in power, and no Govt would ever seriously try and nail them on something- its just not worth it i they want to remain in power.

[aussieinthailand]

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

To be honest in my home country no PM ever made a mistake like YL, its the size of the health budget and not taken into the central budget claiming it would not cost a thing. In my country it would never have come this far as its illegal to do so. But if it had he would be criminal liable for gross neglect. 

 

Just imagine an amount as high as the anual health budget not taken in the central budget claiming it did not cost any money and those who said it would cost money threatened with jail. In my country it would be power-abuse and gross negligence maybe even criminal negligence. 

 

You will have no argument that the general should be investigated too.. but that does not excuse YL. 

So it's not the poorly supervised policy but the amount of money that's the issue then?

How much money do you think has the Thai military funneled into privet bank accounts over the last say hmmm 20 years???

Now of those 20 years, how long has the PM had a role in policy/budget/and being the top man???

Now apply the same standard they are applying to Yingluk and see what happens.

The junta leader threatens people can be taken out and shot.

I guess what I am trying to point out is that the junta hails themselves as the corruption fighters and good people of the country, but the fact is that there is are massive corruption, negligence, and yes even criminal negligence.

Now if the junta want to use this tactic of confiscating the assets of people for negligence in a policy, then that same tactic MUST be applied to the junta also WITHOUT prejudice/amnesty/protection or selection. But that is most certainly not what is happening now is it.

The junta has put themselves and their cohorts above the law while claiming hero's of crime fighters and justice for all the people,    

Again sorry mate but they are hypocrites, it's that simple.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

So it's not the poorly supervised policy but the amount of money that's the issue then?

How much money do you think has the Thai military funneled into privet bank accounts over the last say hmmm 20 years???

Now of those 20 years, how long has the PM had a role in policy/budget/and being the top man???

Now apply the same standard they are applying to Yingluk and see what happens.

The junta leader threatens people can be taken out and shot.

I guess what I am trying to point out is that the junta hails themselves as the corruption fighters and good people of the country, but the fact is that there is are massive corruption, negligence, and yes even criminal negligence.

Now if the junta want to use this tactic of confiscating the assets of people for negligence in a policy, then that same tactic MUST be applied to the junta also WITHOUT prejudice/amnesty/protection or selection. But that is most certainly not what is happening now is it.

The junta has put themselves and their cohorts above the law while claiming hero's of crime fighters and justice for all the people,    

Again sorry mate but they are hypocrites, it's that simple.

No its about the fact that she did not include the cost of the program in the national budget (that is gross negligence for any government rules are if you know there are costs include them) in fact she actually threatened people who said there were costs (even worse). Plus that this policy was used to get into power and if she had included it in the budget she would have to abandon other vote buying policies. So i think they did not include it on purpose.

 

And your .. like the army is corrupt so we should not charge YL is a stupid argument. That someone gets away with a bad thing does not mean everyone should get away with it. Just because you like YL you want her to get away with it.

 

I prefer even selective justice over no justice at all because otherwise nobody will get punished and it will get even worse.

 

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

No its about the fact that she did not include the cost of the program in the national budget (that is gross negligence for any government rules are if you know there are costs include them) in fact she actually threatened people who said there were costs (even worse). Plus that this policy was used to get into power and if she had included it in the budget she would have to abandon other vote buying policies. So i think they did not include it on purpose.

 

And your .. like the army is corrupt so we should not charge YL is a stupid argument. That someone gets away with a bad thing does not mean everyone should get away with it. Just because you like YL you want her to get away with it.

 

I prefer even selective justice over no justice at all because otherwise nobody will get punished and it will get even worse.

 

 

Yes selective justice is just the way forward for improving a country. Where one side know they can act with impunity. Real progressive that is.

[Si Thea01]

9 hours ago, jamesbrock said:

 

That's kind of my point.

 

What kind of country seizes the personal assets of officials responsible for costly, failed, poorly implemented schemes?

 

In 2009 Australia's then PM Kevin Rudd implemented the the ill-fated $2.8 billion Home Insulation Program (HIP), part of the economic stimulus strategy after the GFC. Four lives were lost, several workers were injured and about 120 houses caught fire in a program employing more than 12,000 people in the space of a year before it was terminated. The ensuing Royal Commission into the scheme described it as "a litany of errors". There was never a call to seize Mr Rudd's personal assets - the very thought is ludicrous.

 

It's about time that pollies were pulled into gear and made to reflect, one way or another, (financially or criminally) on how their stupidity can affect the public purse and the lives of citizens.  They never take wage cuts, always increase their lurks and perks and have the hide to tell the citizens that they are the ones wo have to feel the pain.

 

Maybe there should be a law that holds them responsible then maybe they would think twice before implementing some of their stupid policies.  What you quoted is a prime example, Rudd was a complete A and should have been held account for what he did.  And that is not the only stuff up he and the red head inflicted on the Australian people.  Same with Yingluck for the pain and death she was responsible for.

 

Look at him now,  running around the world like King Muck, not a financial worry and has a life time pension of over 200K PA, an office, a car and free travel (plane/train) maybe if they lost all their perks and in the worst case, if they put the country into debt like he did ($400 billion), then take their assets.  If this happened then those who think they are our masters would think twice. Not so ludicrous at all.   

Edited September 16, 2016 by Si Thea01

[GinBoy2]

Lets have no delusions about this. If politicians entering into crazy schemes that lost tax payers millions, then half the elected politicians in the western world would be either behind bars, or bankrupt

 

This is the almost never ending saga of Thai elite politics, trying to end the Shin's stranglehold of popular opinion.

 

They try, although no as adeptly, to mirror the Singapore model of bankrupting political opponents.

 

Problem being, where I believe that the Singaporean Chinese elite actually have a vested interest in raising the standard of living for all, the Thai elite not so much!

 

[JHolmesJr]

3 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

if ying luck is stupid enough to have any assets left in thailand then she deserves to loose them. innocent or guilty does not matter in thailand, she is the political opponent of the regime currently in power. how long has she had to get her loot out of thailand? surely it has been years. her brother could have shown her how to do it. they both have private jets to act as transportation.

 

Pretty sure most of it is in Dubai….some jail time should sort her out.

[williamgeorgeallen]

5 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Pretty sure most of it is in Dubai….some jail time should sort her out.

sure the army were hoping she was leaving  for good last time she went out side of thailand but surprise surprise she came back. she is the number 1 preferred prime minister for thailand. army has to get her to leave or put her in jail.

[smutcakes]

15 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Pretty sure most of it is in Dubai….some jail time should sort her out.

 

I am pretty sure the army has searched high and low, through thick and thin, through banks and every other possible outlet in the hope they could nail something to her or her family. Even with all those resources they cannot find anything.... I bet they would not be so keen on similar scrutiny into their own affairs.

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, jamesbrock said:

The witch hunt continues... 

 

Sure she was ultimately responsible for the scheme, but seizing her personal assets??

 

Did they seize the personal assets of the Army Chief responsible for the purchase of the GT200? The blimp? The aircraft carrier? The Rajabhakti Park project?

 

[Disclaimer: Again, I am not a fan of the Shin clan.]

 

She and her family have screwed billions out of the Thai people. This was just one example. 

 

Witch Hunt - cobblers. Selective enforcement of the law as per usual. 

 

Try telling a traffic cop the whole flow of traffic was speeding when your're the one stopped and see if he let's you off.

 

Now, perhaps you, as a non fan of the Shin clan. can explain why she was not negligent in this case, without relying on the "others haven't been prosecuted or had their assets seized" defense which is a nice deflection but irrelevant to her case.

[Baerboxer]

10 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

I am pretty sure the army has searched high and low, through thick and thin, through banks and every other possible outlet in the hope they could nail something to her or her family. Even with all those resources they cannot find anything.... I bet they would not be so keen on similar scrutiny into their own affairs.

 

I doubt the life expectancy of a real forensic accountant here is much longer than the average WW1 fighter pilot when in action.

And probably far less volunteers.

 

[aussieinthailand]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

No its about the fact that she did not include the cost of the program in the national budget (that is gross negligence for any government rules are if you know there are costs include them) in fact she actually threatened people who said there were costs (even worse). Plus that this policy was used to get into power and if she had included it in the budget she would have to abandon other vote buying policies. So i think they did not include it on purpose.

 

And your .. like the army is corrupt so we should not charge YL is a stupid argument. That someone gets away with a bad thing does not mean everyone should get away with it. Just because you like YL you want her to get away with it.

 

I prefer even selective justice over no justice at all because otherwise nobody will get punished and it will get even worse.

 

Selective justice is NO justice...  It creates injustice,  division, resentment, inequality, and contempt.

Robblok,  You  keep changing your reasons why you think Yingluk's assets should be taken,,,,  first it's the corruption in the rice scheme and she is responsible,    Question,   if a PM in your home country had a corrupt politician then the PM is responsible and must be removed, charged and asset confiscated?  That is what is currently happening

second it's the Democrat's bringing in rotten rice and banks warning her and she is responsible,  then it's the amount of money regarding the rice scheme, and now it's she didn't include it in the budget.  Surprise, policy's not included in a budget and or under- costed in a budget is common in almost every country on the planet...

Did she put one baht in her pocket from the rice scheme??? NO... Was it a poorly run policy? YES...

Shouldn't the junta be going after the people/politicians/business people/officials/hangers on that acted corruptly and profited from the policy?  YES.

Rotten rice, Fact rice can be stored indefinably  (except brown rice) as long as the storage is adequate. So rotten rice huh, go after the rice storage owners.

I am not saying "the army is corrupt so we should not charge Yingluk" at all,  read the post,  I said apply the same standard for the military as they are applying for Yingluk, and that is confiscating assets form those who were making poor policy's, not including items in budget, negligent, corrupt, head of department so responsible.   fake Bomb detectors, blimps, submarines, microphones, and then the PM returned the mic's so no corruption is like a bank robber returning the money and therefore no crime has been committed, that is complicit in corruption by not going after the people that tried to get away with it...

By the way mate just to let you know,,, policy's are use to get governments into power

[smutcakes]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

She and her family have screwed billions out of the Thai people. This was just one example. 

 

Witch Hunt - cobblers. Selective enforcement of the law as per usual. 

 

Try telling a traffic cop the whole flow of traffic was speeding when your're the one stopped and see if he let's you off.

 

Now, perhaps you, as a non fan of the Shin clan. can explain why she was not negligent in this case, without relying on the "others haven't been prosecuted or had their assets seized" defense which is a nice deflection but irrelevant to her case.

 

It is 100% relevant. This is an unprecedented step they are trying to take. It is very relevant to enquire why they are also not taking similar action against many other Government entities who fritter away the Thai peoples money negliegently.

[Baerboxer]

31 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Lets have no delusions about this. If politicians entering into crazy schemes that lost tax payers millions, then half the elected politicians in the western world would be either behind bars, or bankrupt

 

This is the almost never ending saga of Thai elite politics, trying to end the Shin's stranglehold of popular opinion.

 

They try, although no as adeptly, to mirror the Singapore model of bankrupting political opponents.

 

Problem being, where I believe that the Singaporean Chinese elite actually have a vested interest in raising the standard of living for all, the Thai elite not so much!

 

 

You do include the Shins in the Chinese elite do you? Which of course they are, and most certainly not interested in raising the standard of anyone's life but their own.

If politicians were negligent in managing schemes, and deliberately dressed those schemes up to keep them off budget, away from scrutiny and refused to reveal accounts, then yes, they'd probably get prosecuted too in most countries.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

 

Yes selective justice is just the way forward for improving a country. Where one side know they can act with impunity. Real progressive that is.

 

Selective justice is disgusting. 

 

However, that does not mean those who do get selected should be let off either. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

No its about the fact that she did not include the cost of the program in the national budget (that is gross negligence for any government rules are if you know there are costs include them) in fact she actually threatened people who said there were costs (even worse). Plus that this policy was used to get into power and if she had included it in the budget she would have to abandon other vote buying policies. So i think they did not include it on purpose.

 

And your .. like the army is corrupt so we should not charge YL is a stupid argument. That someone gets away with a bad thing does not mean everyone should get away with it. Just because you like YL you want her to get away with it.

 

I prefer even selective justice over no justice at all because otherwise nobody will get punished and it will get even worse.

 

 

Rob, YL, well her brother to be correct. was also trying to get the 2.2 trillion baht loan off budget. PTP claimed that doing so would speed up implementation of "important projects" and their pretty PM said "just trust us".

 

Had they have got that, all things would have be covered out of that money, and scams gone on for years until the day of reckoning which would have been decades away and after the Shin clan had hidden trillions away. 

 

But their fans on here won't admit that, acknowledge that, or consider they should be punished for anything. And the only defense is always "others do, have done, and will do the same". Yet not one has ever offered a defense against her negligence charge - other than claiming politicians are held accountable.

 

 

[smutcakes]

35 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Selective justice is disgusting. 

 

However, that does not mean those who do get selected should be let off either. 

 

Well how about they do the thing they promised then..... reform.......

[smutcakes]

30 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Rob, YL, well her brother to be correct. was also trying to get the 2.2 trillion baht loan off budget. PTP claimed that doing so would speed up implementation of "important projects" and their pretty PM said "just trust us".

 

Had they have got that, all things would have be covered out of that money, and scams gone on for years until the day of reckoning which would have been decades away and after the Shin clan had hidden trillions away. 

 

But their fans on here won't admit that, acknowledge that, or consider they should be punished for anything. And the only defense is always "others do, have done, and will do the same". Yet not one has ever offered a defense against her negligence charge - other than claiming politicians are held accountable.

 

 

 

 

You cannot punish someone or find someone guilty about what they might have done in the future, if theoretically something had happened!

 

Funny how despite all the corruption, the prices of most of the schemes PTP came up with the prices of them have increased under the Junta. Make of that what you may.......

[jamesbrock]

51 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Now, perhaps you, as a non fan of the Shin clan. can explain why she was not negligent in this case, without relying on the "others haven't been prosecuted or had their assets seized" defense which is a nice deflection but irrelevant to her case.

 

She. Didn't. Personally. Steal. The. Money.

 

How difficult is that to understand?

 

I have not once said she wasn't negligent in this case (nice strawman), of course she oversaw a grossly incompetent government scheme that led to the loss/theft of some 18 billion dollars, but she didn't personally steal 18 billion dollars.

 

Would you support seizing the assets of Chakthip Chaijinda who, as Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police, presides over arguably one of the largest criminal organisations in the land? No, only an imbecile would make such a ludicrous proposal. You'd prosecute the corrupt, thieving employees.

 

But, no, this is somehow different... Somehow we should just let those who did make off with the loot keep their ill gotten gains while pursuing some ridiculous which hunt making her personally liable for someone else's theft.

[SOTIRIOS]

...can't wait to see what justice will be served....

 

***

 

...and how about all the other pending verdicts....

 

***

 

....is this a a 'trade-off' that  we haven't been told of...???

[JAG]

1 hour ago, jamesbrock said:

 

She. Didn't. Personally. Steal. The. Money.

 

How difficult is that to understand?

 

I have not once said she wasn't negligent in this case (nice strawman), of course she oversaw a grossly incompetent government scheme that led to the loss/theft of some 18 billion dollars, but she didn't personally steal 18 billion dollars.

 

Would you support seizing the assets of Chakthip Chaijinda who, as Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police, presides over arguably one of the largest criminal organisations in the land? No, only an imbecile would make such a ludicrous proposal. You'd prosecute the corrupt, thieving employees.

 

But, no, this is somehow different... Somehow we should just let those who did make off with the loot keep their ill gotten gains while pursuing some ridiculous which hunt making her personally liable for someone else's theft.

Yes it is somehow different. 

 

Somehow they must stop her from retaining her place as the most electable politician, or more accurately  the most popular candidate for Prime Minister. 

 

Yes I know many will argue that is not the case, but they can't explain why her re-election had to be prevented can they?

 

Destroying her financially will, the thinking runs, help with that.

 

Well I rather suspect that if she becomes the victim of such state sponsored robbery it will probably  strengthen  her support. 

[trainman34014]

They are all cowards, so just watch this whole show turn to dust as it passes from one pair of trembling hands to another.   Nobody will want to be the one in Political history who took such an unprecedented step.  There is also the small matter of such a decision bringing about violence, either on the streets or personal violence against those who make such decisions.    Watch this space !

[tbthailand]

this is just vindictive...  

[democratus]

In Thailand there are so many laws....but so little justice....

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You do include the Shins in the Chinese elite do you? Which of course they are, and most certainly not interested in raising the standard of anyone's life but their own.

If politicians were negligent in managing schemes, and deliberately dressed those schemes up to keep them off budget, away from scrutiny and refused to reveal accounts, then yes, they'd probably get prosecuted too in most countries.

Thats exactly the point. The Shins are an integral part of the Thai elite.

But this is a country where personal graft is part of the 'gift' of governing. To try to say any of the elite that have ruled this country are any better or worse is to totally misunderstand the thoroughly corrupt nature of all government here

The Shins 'sin' was they made their graft very obvious, and used populism to actually work the democratic system, much to the horror of their fellow elites.

 

Which is the point I was trying make with regard to Singapore. There is no real doubt Lee Kwan Yeuh was an autocrat, and may well have been lining his and his families pockets, but he did have a vision for raising the whole country, which he and his successors did extremely well. Prem was probably the closest this country ever got to a LKY, but he could never see past his class, or defeat the elite establishment to make the radical changes needed.

 

So, here we are, Shin's, army, coups galore. corruption, versus Singapore a shining light of success and rich and educated populus

[mrmicbkktxl]

14 hours ago, Valentine said:

There is no one on trial for those.

Because they gave them self immunity for everything they do or did,nice government

[billd766]

18 hours ago, democratus said:

In Thailand there are so many laws....but so little justice....

 

And even less enforcement.

[Eric Loh]

Will be interesting on who will finally sign the seizure executive order. Toss around like a hot potato even after PM provided the security of article 44 for those involved. Bunch of cowards passing the buck and afraid of taking direct responsibility of an absurb attempt to stop the Shin. I just hope that if this unfair act is executed, it will set a precedent for the next elected government to go after the military corruptions and libel them to pay compensation and assets seized.

[mike324]

On 9/16/2016 at 5:42 AM, jamesbrock said:

 

That's kind of my point.

 

What kind of country seizes the personal assets of officials responsible for costly, failed, poorly implemented schemes?

 

In 2009 Australia's then PM Kevin Rudd implemented the the ill-fated $2.8 billion Home Insulation Program (HIP), part of the economic stimulus strategy after the GFC. Four lives were lost, several workers were injured and about 120 houses caught fire in a program employing more than 12,000 people in the space of a year before it was terminated. The ensuing Royal Commission into the scheme described it as "a litany of errors". There was never a call to seize Mr Rudd's personal assets - the very thought is ludicrous.

 

Just want to make a simple point, although seizing her assets is overboard, perhaps a jail term is more fitting. After all this same policy was repeated not once, but twice! With assurance from Yingluck that there will be no corruption and full transparency this time around. Now say again if any of the leaders in any country implemented a massively failed scheme twice, when it was warned by several agencies.

 

Wouldn't ludicrous be implementing a known failed policy?