Australian pensioners in for a shock.

[TechnikaIII]

"Overseas pensioner travel cut; government votes to limit benefits if you travel."

 

Article in the Labor Herald

 

If you depend on the Australian pension as your livelihood, this will affect you.

If you need that income to qualify for residency permits in Thailand, this will affect you. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it also threatens to ruin me. 

In fact, I am totally sickened too that Labor has let it go through without a fight so far .. nothing.

Bill Shorten was enjoying a trip to Canada whilst the Senate was doing the evil deeds.

[ubonjoe]

Moved to the Home Courtly Forum.

Not directly visa related.

[TechnikaIII]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Moved to the Home Courtly Forum.

Not directly visa related.

 

???

It most definitely is about visas, because many will fall out of visa eligibility if their pensions are cut off!!

Well, wherever it has been moved to, it is vitally important that it is seen.

It is not just about Thaivisa gossip, ladyboys, bar girls and speeding vans, It is a critically important notice that could affect the well being of several of our members.

Did you even read it?

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by TechnikaIII

[BEVUP]

Assies are getting screwed from every side

Try working away from home FIFO then getting retrenched whilst on your rest break every month only to find out that the 10 rest days will be deducted from the 3 weeks of pay you were suppose to get for working the 2 + years 

[rockingrobin]

From the article

“Currently, pensioners can stay overseas for 26 weeks and receive their full pension,” Macklin said. “Following that time, the pension is reduced to a rate that depends on the number of years they have worked in Australia

 

Is  this about the means tested state pension 

[oxo1947]

Who first brought the rule in about not being able to stay overseas for as long as you wish.?

Who changed the pension so its now means tested....?

Who brought the rule in that you have to live in Oz for the last 6 months of your pension..?

 

.

Its wonderful Labour taking the high ground on this--but once the red haired lady altered it all, then its a lot easier just to tweak it when you want to---GST rate next I suppose.

[AlexRRR]

After 6 weeks out of the country you loose the supplement, thats it, from jan 2017 work years in AU is how your pension is worked out....doesnt matter where you are or where you go if you leave the country after 6 weeks your supplement is cut until you return..

[thaibeachlovers]

They are penny wise, pound foolish.

If Oz pensioners can't live overseas, they will return to live in Oz, and the health bills will increase to cover all of them. The amount they will cost in health care will vastly exceed the amount of their pension. Then there is accomodation supplements etc etc etc.

 

But, who ever claimed politicians were intelligent?

[Bob9]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They are penny wise, pound foolish.

If Oz pensioners can't live overseas, they will return to live in Oz, and the health bills will increase to cover all of them. The amount they will cost in health care will vastly exceed the amount of their pension. Then there is accomodation supplements etc etc etc.

 

But, who ever claimed politicians were intelligent?

Not me - but they are 'politically smart'.  Doing this will mean an immediate reduction in the Budget deficit, which means when added together with all the other cuts/reductions, will help them claim they have reduced Australia's debt burden.  

 

And in 10 years time when the Budget deficit has been blown out by all the pensioners overseas returning home, the Pollies will introduce something that makes it attractive for Pensioners to stay overseas. Then they will claim (again) that they have reduced the Budget deficit.

 

Intelligent planning and long-term thinking - NOT A POLITICIAN.

 

[TechnikaIII]

On 9/17/2016 at 0:02 AM, AlexRRR said:

After 6 weeks out of the country you loose the supplement, thats it, from jan 2017 work years in AU is how your pension is worked out....doesnt matter where you are or where you go if you leave the country after 6 weeks your supplement is cut until you return..

Not for long. The "Omnibus Bill" already passed through the House of Representatives, states the intention of cutting everyone off after 6 weeks.

[tifino]

On 9/17/2016 at 0:02 AM, AlexRRR said:

After 6 weeks out of the country you loose the supplement, thats it, from jan 2017 work years in AU is how your pension is worked out....doesnt matter where you are or where you go if you leave the country after 6 weeks your supplement is cut until you return..

 

yep, and already been through this turmoil myself.

If you are on an Aged Pension, it is as shown above IAW what AlexxRRR shows.

 

However, if you are on a Disability Support pension, yes, after 6 weeks your Supplements stop,

but after the 12 weeks the DSP is Cancelled in toto.

 

So, for an Aged pensioner, the payments resume - when/if you return to OZ,

and for the poor old DSP'er (or should I say ex-DSP'er), you have to reapply from scratch.

 

For someone going O/S, on a Newstart (unemployment) benefit, it all STOPs the moment you depart OZ.

 

In my case, as a typical example:

Being on the DSP, if I wanted an extended trip O/S, my options are:

• go short time
• accept loss of all Benefits if I go long-time
• wait a couple of years, upon reaching Aged pension age, and transfer over to that pension
• and then go...

But I have already set up a financially better option, therefore opening up for a wider choice later on:

• commence (which I now already havedone ) a Military Super Defined Benefit pension,

                     which is for Life, and not subject to ANY restriction regarding where I am, nor will be...

 

• and it pays really a whole lot more than what any Centrelink pension ever ever could

 

I am really surprised, if any OZ Centrelink pension pays near enough to even be considered meaningful;

in regards to being enough to satisfy any LOS visa application related Income requirements

 

 

[tifino]

41 minutes ago, TechnikaIII said:

Not for long. The "Omnibus Bill" already passed through the House of Representatives, states the intention of cutting everyone off after 6 weeks.

 

oooohhhhwwww gee didn't even hear about that!

 

but for any expat,- let's do a Julian, and let the outside world know...

the following is a summary of what Acts, that Bill is covering:

it is in Open Office format

Omnibus Bill.odt

'

oh ok! in Word too:

Omnibus Bill.doc

 

 

[harness]

Does this new legislation differentiate between residents and non residents like myself?

As you all know non residents lose their Medicare card and pay certain taxes at a higher rate. That's what makes me think that non residents might be unaffected by the new law. I hope I'm right.

Does anyone out there know what the story is on this issue?

Good on ya.

 

[harness]

Just did a bit of a search of the new bill and came up with the following:

"The Explanatory Memorandum states that this measure would reinforce and strengthen the residence based nature of Australia's social security system."

 

So I suppose this means that the pension is for genuine locals and not for those who have somehow rejected the oz experience and have chosen to live overseas instead.

[MalandLee]

 

Quote

 

Australian OLD AGED Pension.

 

Up until the Abbott government, the Australian old aged pension was globally portable and indexed for life after a working life of 25 years.

 

The Abbott government changed the working life to 35 years. If you have done less, you do not get a fully indexed pension living overseas.

 

There is MUCH more to this than stated above - so please take that as a severely "pared down" version

 

 

 

This thread is ambiguous and whilst I thank the OP for the heads up, there is a desperate need for clarification.

 

Elderly people do not cope well with change… Many elderly have contributed 40, 50 or more years and have chosen Thailand, Malaysia, etc.. etc.. as a place to retire.

 

With limited resources it can take years to establish oneself in another country, sometimes that includes selling the family home and burning lot’s of bridges in the old country. Many older Aussies have done this - shifting the goal posts can be devastating.

 

This page (UPDATED 21 SEPTEMBER 2016 – YES – TODAY!!!!)

 

Pension rates payable outside Australia. Provides absolutely current information..

 

As clarification becomes available we need to keep this thread alive – I personally do not want to read of a fellow Aussie (or anyone for that matter) launching him/herself from some tall structure somewhere.

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by MalandLee

[Ned]

Looks like only concessions and supplements will be cut after 6weeks abroad.

Otherwise nothing has changed.

[MalandLee]

3 hours ago, MalandLee said:

 

 

 

This thread is ambiguous and whilst I thank the OP for the heads up, there is a desperate need for clarification.

 

Elderly people do not cope well with change… Many elderly have contributed 40, 50 or more years and have chosen Thailand, Malaysia, etc.. etc.. as a place to retire.

 

With limited resources it can take years to establish oneself in another country, sometimes that includes selling the family home and burning lot’s of bridges in the old country. Many older Aussies have done this - shifting the goal posts can be devastating.

 

This page (UPDATED 21 SEPTEMBER 2016 – YES – TODAY!!!!)

 

 

Pension rates payable outside Australia.

 Provides absolutely current information..

 

 

As clarification becomes available we need to keep this thread alive – I personally do not want to read of a fellow Aussie (or anyone for that matter) launching him/herself from some tall structure somewhere.

 

 

MY MISTAKE I put a dot at the end of the URL.

Here is the new one: https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/pension-rates-payable-people-outside-australia

[MalandLee]

Nick the Greek… we have all heard of him, that mythological “real” person.

 

Anyhow nick comes here in 1958 with his mum & dad – after the war. Greeks have made a remarkable contribution to Australia, as have Pom’s, Italians, Vietnamese and so many other great people(s).

 

Nick was 10 when he came and remembers Greece fondly as a child. He worked all his life in that Greek bakery down in Springvale, Melb Vic.

 

At 68 old nick thought, kids grown, even grand-kids are grown, few visit him any more except Christmas & birthdays – all too busy making a living.

 

Nick decides they enjoyed all those holidays in Thailand, why not retire there. Not too far from OZ and not too expensive for a trip home.

 

Has a few hundred thousands in savings and they have the OZ pension $31,278.00 per annum or about 68,000 Baht a month + his savings earn him another 15000 Baht per month.

 

THEY SET UP IN THAILAND

 

BENEFITS TO THAILAND AND AUSTRALIA.

 

Thailand:

 

• Nick plonks 4 million Baht in the bank here, for use as setup costs, Housing, vehicle etc..
• Each month they spend tens of thousands of Baht in the local economy.
• Add your favourite benefit here……….

 

Australia:

Thousands of old folk seek benefits from the system,

 

Concesions on:-

• Drivers Lic.
• Rates & Taxes
• Zero medical costs (Pension Card)
• Travel subsidies
• Aged care homes
• On and on it goes…

 

Australians do not need to fund these extras to their citizens overseas. Hence millions of dollars are saved, further, pensioners get more cash money if they live in OZ.

 

If the retire(s) remains until h/she is incinerated in the village crematorium, Australia has benefited by multiple milions.

 

Of course I have not got either the command of English nor all the variables at my disposal to offer a better argument.

 

But I hope you get the idea

 

 

 

[sceadugenga]

Is the OP referring to the loss of the pension supplement etc or the reduction of the pension for overseas travelers due to the the changes in Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR) requirements?

 

 

[AlexRRR]

On 9/23/2016 at 10:35 AM, sceadugenga said:

Is the OP referring to the loss of the pension supplement etc or the reduction of the pension for overseas travelers due to the the changes in Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR) requirements?

 

 

 

As with most people jumping to conclusions is common, the way Centrelink presents the information on its website has will and does mislead, lot of mumbo jumbo on it double dutch and in Zulu as well....i dont bother with there website any longer, as I'm heading into that time of my life i went and paid an expert for the information i needed, recently i had an appointment with a Centrelink finical advisor its a good idea that people approaching retirement do that.

 

Contrary to what people here say Centrelink is not out to get you, they abide by the rules the politicians set them, there just an arm of government that each one of us voted in.

 

I have found dealing with Centrelink easy and fair, if you know what you can do long before you get to do it there are not any surprises, of course if you just plain greedy well then that type of person can never be happy, if you people want to make a change hassle there elected representative in there local area for change.

 

You loose the supplement if your out of the country more than 6  weeks, you must also tell Centrelink if your leaving for an extended period which i think is 6 weeks or more, your pension is portable if you have lived in Au 2 years before or 2 years after you applied and received the pension possible a combination of that as well but dont hold me to it as its one question that didn't relate to me. If you live overseas your entitle to full pension minus the supplement but from jan 2017  years in AU test will apply, in other words if you lived and worked in AU your entire working life of most of it you get the full pension other wise its pro rata, dont bash Centrelink they didn't make those rules Greens were in bed with Abbot and Hockey on this one...

[AlexRRR]

On 9/23/2016 at 10:35 AM, sceadugenga said:

Is the OP referring to the loss of the pension supplement etc or the reduction of the pension for overseas travelers due to the the changes in Australian Working Life Residency (AWLR) requirements?

 

 

 

As with most people jumping to conclusions is common, the way Centrelink presents the information on its website has will and does mislead, lot of mumbo jumbo on it double dutch and in Zulu as well....i dont bother with there website any longer, as I'm heading into that time of my life i went and paid an expert for the information i needed, recently i had an appointment with a Centrelink finical advisor its a good idea that people approaching retirement do that.

 

Contrary to what people here say Centrelink is not out to get you, they abide by the rules the politicians set them, there just an arm of government that each one of us voted in.

 

I have found dealing with Centrelink easy and fair, if you know what you can do long before you get to do it there are not any surprises, of course if you just plain greedy well then that type of person can never be happy, if you people want to make a change hassle there elected representative in there local area for change.

 

You loose the supplement if your out of the country more than 6  weeks, you must also tell Centrelink if your leaving for an extended period which i think is 6 weeks or more, your pension is portable if you have lived in Au 2 years before or 2 years after you applied and received the pension possible a combination of that as well but dont hold me to it as its one question that didn't relate to me. If you live overseas your entitle to full pension minus the supplement but from jan 2017  years in AU test will apply, in other words if you lived and worked in AU your entire working life of most of it you get the full pension other wise its pro rata, dont bash Centrelink they didn't make those rules Greens were in bed with Abbot and Hockey on this one...

 

Edit.....your entitled to a pension and live overseas provided you meet the 2 year rule in other words if your already living overseas and want to apply for the pension you will need to return to AU for 2 years.

[sceadugenga]

I would advise anyone approaching Age Pension  age qualification and intending to live overseas to make sure that they meet the Centrelink residency qualification before applying or they will certainly find themselves staying in Australia for 2 years..

 

I would also point out that the is actually nothing in the Social Security Act that defines residency in terms of exactly how long the would be pensioner should have been in Australia for to qualify as a resident.

Anyone who considers themselves unfairly penalised, such as a case I know where 2 years was spent overseas after more than 40 as a residential taxpayer, could amuse themselves in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.

[scorecard]

On 9/16/2016 at 9:02 PM, AlexRRR said:

After 6 weeks out of the country you loose the supplement, thats it, from jan 2017 work years in AU is how your pension is worked out....doesnt matter where you are or where you go if you leave the country after 6 weeks your supplement is cut until you return..

 

But does it still mean you have to be full-time resident in Australia for the 2 years immediately before application?

[Bob9]

23 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

But does it still mean you have to be full-time resident in Australia for the 2 years immediately before application?

 

No - but you must be a full-time resident when you apply AND you have to show/state that you intend to remain resident once you receive it.  In other words, you cant go back and live in Aust for a few weeks/months and apply, and then once you get it, then go back overseas and keep it - that was happening a lot and so they stopped it.   They cannot deny you the pension if you are living in Aust and qualify, but what they can do is give you the pension and state you failed to meet the residency requirements and therefore the pension is not transportable for 2 years. It is likely that over time they will increase this amount of time - 3 years and even 5 years.

 

Some people go back and get the pension and then live there for 2 years in order to be able to then leave and take the pension overseas.  As above, it is likely that over time they will increase this amount of time - to 3 years and even 5 years.

 

Some people go back for a year or so before the pension is applicable and live there, and do as much as possible to convice CLink that they intend to stay in Aust, but then they leave once they get their pension approved with no residency 'catch'. Therefore, CLink is taking a harder approach and is now tending to approve the pension with the residency 'catch' for anyone who has not lived in Aust for at least 2 years prior to application.

 

Some people go back a few years before the pension is applicable and live there and then apply for the pension and then take it overseas (my plan).  See next post for details.

 

[Bob9]

Some people go back a few years before the pension is applicable and live there and then apply for the pension and then take it overseas (my plan).  

 

The issue is - what is a resident living in Australia mean.

 

The rules about who is a resident are clear - a permanent resident or a citizen. 

 

The rules about who is 'living in Australia' are not as clear - there are guidelines.  

 

Someone who is living in Australia has a residence in Australia and does things like pays taxes and has rates licence banks and votes etc etc etc. But that does not means that they cannot go overseas on holidays - for short (weeks) or long periods (few months).

 

What it means is that someone cannot live overseas for any extended period in what CLink could consider to be their main home.  So - IMO - if you want CLink to accept that you live in Aust before getting the pension, then there are things you need to do as above (renting a premises is OK, you do not have to own) . 

 

But if you want to VISIT Thailand for any periods of time while living in Australia, then setting things up here so that it looks like you do have a home here, is not the way to go. That would mean (for example) not owning a property, not living at the same place all the time, not owning a car/bike, and it would mean staying in different places, each time you visit etc etc etc.

 

For those who think - why bother? Then consider this. Pension at 70 and live til 90. Pension is about $20K PA - total received is $400,000 or 10,400,000 baht  (plus $20K is indexed). And if you have some savings/Super, then you can top-up your pension as and when required - you can add about $4K PA and lose nil pension, and if you set up things right, then you can take out much more (if you have it) and not lose a large part of the pension.

 

 

 

 

[White Christmas13]

On 9/21/2016 at 5:06 PM, MalandLee said:

Nick the Greek… we have all heard of him, that mythological “real” person.

 

Anyhow nick comes here in 1958 with his mum & dad – after the war. Greeks have made a remarkable contribution to Australia, as have Pom’s, Italians, Vietnamese and so many other great people(s).

 

Nick was 10 when he came and remembers Greece fondly as a child. He worked all his life in that Greek bakery down in Springvale, Melb Vic.

 

At 68 old nick thought, kids grown, even grand-kids are grown, few visit him any more except Christmas & birthdays – all too busy making a living.

 

Nick decides they enjoyed all those holidays in Thailand, why not retire there. Not too far from OZ and not too expensive for a trip home.

 

Has a few hundred thousands in savings and they have the OZ pension $31,278.00 per annum or about 68,000 Baht a month + his savings earn him another 15000 Baht per month.

 

THEY SET UP IN THAILAND

 

BENEFITS TO THAILAND AND AUSTRALIA.

 

Thailand:

 

• Nick plonks 4 million Baht in the bank here, for use as setup costs, Housing, vehicle etc..
• Each month they spend tens of thousands of Baht in the local economy.
• Add your favourite benefit here……….

 

Australia:

Thousands of old folk seek benefits from the system,

 

Concesions on:-

• Drivers Lic.
• Rates & Taxes
• Zero medical costs (Pension Card)
• Travel subsidies
• Aged care homes
• On and on it goes…

 

Australians do not need to fund these extras to their citizens overseas. Hence millions of dollars are saved, further, pensioners get more cash money if they live in OZ.

 

If the retire(s) remains until h/she is incinerated in the village crematorium, Australia has benefited by multiple milions.

 

Of course I have not got either the command of English nor all the variables at my disposal to offer a better argument.

 

But I hope you get the idea

 

 

 

Actually the drivers licence is completely free I just renewed mine for 5 years  

[sceadugenga]

This applies in all states?

I've not been back for a while.