Brexit and Fixing the NHS

[Lokie]

Tell you another high cost to the NHS which should be paid for by the person requiring this service - Translators...

the NHS supply translators and have most signs and documents translated into several languages as a lot of the users do not speak English... 

[SgtRock]

17 minutes ago, Lokie said:

Tell you another high cost to the NHS which should be paid for by the person requiring this service - Translators...

the NHS supply translators and have most signs and documents translated into several languages as a lot of the users do not speak English... 

 

As with all Public Services in the UK, translation costs are an abomination.

 

It is reported that the NHS currently spends £ 23 Million a year on Translation services.

 

£ 23 Million would fund 700 - 800 Nurses for a year.

 

I am of the opinion that should you wish to use the NHS you should be able to speak English at the very least. Or paying for your own translator.

 

Keep them coming.

 

 

[teacherpaul]

20 hours ago, Strange said:

 

American here - your tax dollars pay for designer vaginas? What the... 

Tax pounds, not dollars. Amazing how Americans think there is only one currency in the world.

[SgtRock]

4 hours ago, emilymat said:

But of course, the pressure on GP's services has resulted in A and E departments being used by some people as primary healthcare places, simply because they cannot get a GP appointment, panic over small things, or are downright lazy.

 

 

Agreed. There is abuse of the system that must be halted. People should be able to get an appointment to see a doctor and people should not be turning up at A&E for no reason.

 

Financial penalties is the quickest way to stop this abuse. Fines for those that do not turn up for a GP's appointment. Fines for those that turn up at A&E for silly reasons. 

 

4 hours ago, emilymat said:

The financial pressures on the NHS are enormous. To add to the previous posts, one of the biggest problems is the legacy of PFI, used by both Tory and Labour governments. This is crudely how it worked:

 

 

The financial pressures of the NHS, whilst they may be enormous, are false pressure. The NHS receives far more money that it actually needs, if it would sort itself out and use that money wisely and stop carrying out procedures that people should be paying for. 

 

PFI, yes we all know how great and for who that was. Notwithstanding the problems it causes. We cannot change the past but there should be nothing wrong with trying to rectify errors of the past.

 

One of the reasons for the OP was to show that normal everyday people could run a better NHS Service than what we currently have.

 

I believe that even with current funding levels, the NHS can be turned into a self funding, self sustaining organisation over a given period of time.

[zd1]

Interesting thread with a lot of valid comments.

The great Aneurin Bevan would be turning in his grave at what the NHS has become, IMHO the NHS has been underfunded by successive governments over the years from Thatcher to the present government and the present government want to privatise it altogether.

Thatcher privatised many things in her tenure at no10 and this only made the tory cronies richer and services worse, in every level privatisation of public services is wrong as it is then for profit and not for public service.

The UK is in a lot of ways as corrupt as anywhere in the world it is just better at hiding it, with the huge corporations paying little or no tax the government ministers fiddling their expenses and the backhanders paid by companies owned by or backed by ministers to get the big contracts.

With the brexit the one main point that the brexiters made was that the NHS would get an extra £350m a week, this hasn't happened and isn't going to happen as once the vote was in all we heard was backtracking and more lies.

The amount of money being spent on unnessesary things like Trident, tax cuts for the super wealthy would bring in an awful amount of money that could be spent on the NHS, but no in the UK we like to carve up our country and sell it to the highest bidder (Hinkley point for instance) and lets not forget that our good old politicians will be getting kick backs for this.

At the moment in the UK we have an unelected PM leading the people into brexit which is based on the lie that the NHS was going to receive an extra £350m a week, if a second referendum was held I wonder if the voting public will still vote to leave.

Personally I voted to remain but it was mainly a selfish thing as I was selling a house at the time and didn't want the uncertainty in the housing market, another thing is I didn't want sterling to go down I have lost around 5 baht to every pound.

The unfortunate thing I see happening with the NHS is that it will be privatised the government will get the media to run out all the propaganda telling the public that it is for the best and that everything will improve just like our railways have lol.

 

[kingalfred]

The NHS should be only available to British born and only newcomers who have contributed for a considerably length of time. It's a scandal that foreigners have gone to the Uk specifically for "treatment" and I use that loosely, from Giving birth to some long term illness.Not what Beveridge invisaged in 1946.


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[steve187]

7 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

To maintain Breathing

To arrest Bleeding

The treatment of Breaks and Burns

The treatment of infections and diseases.

 

Primary healthcare would also include the infrastructure for the diagnosis and treatment of the above.

 

 

are you saying everything else should be paid for. without too much thinking childbirth and all illnesses are not included in your list

[rickudon]

It is hard to see where all the extra costs come from. I have used AandE 3 times in my life, once after a car crash and twice after accidents at home. The treatment on the home accidents is telling - 

1, In the 1960's as a 12 year old ran into an open window and cut my head open, we had just moved house so were not registered with a local doctor.The neighbour called their doctor, who came out, said i needed stitches But would have to be done in hospital. After being driven to the hospital, the GP who had seen me was waiting to do the stitches in a theatre - and no waiting.

2. 4 years ago got sciatica after some heavy garden work at my brothers house. I was unable to walk. My brother was out working at the time. Called his Doctor - reply was 'tough - find a hospital'. Took me 5 minutes to limp to my car, then drive to the hospital (probably not very safe, but alternative was an ambulance). Took 15 minutes to limp to the AE from the pay and display car park. then waited 3 hours to be seen. Was given some pills and told go to my own doctor (nearly a hundred miles away).

 

What the hell has happened? Nobody cares. Also, where i lived, we saw about 7 hospitals within 30 miles close down due to 'efficiency savings' then they wonder why the remaining hospitals cannot cope.

[geisha]

" Free" healthcare does not exist, your taxes pay for it .

[HauptmannUK]

1. Brexit has nothing to do with the NHS. The promised extra £350m a week for the NHS was a blatant lie.

2. I'm British but have lived and worked in the US, France, Germany and some other countries. The NHS might not deliver to French or German standards but it is infinitely better than the US system, which is totally dysfunctional.

8. About 8 years ago I was diagnosed with a dreadful and potentially terminal illness.  I quickly received highly specialist care of very high quality that saved my life. I could never have afforded this care privately and most insurance policies would not have covered it on cost grounds.  Looking on internet forums for sufferers of this disorder it was heartbreaking to see US-based posters dying because they either had no insutance coverage or they had hit their coverage limits. They were writing begging letters to drug companies for treatment.

[naboo]

7 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

As with all Public Services in the UK, translation costs are an abomination.

 

It is reported that the NHS currently spends £ 23 Million a year on Translation services.

 

£ 23 Million would fund 700 - 800 Nurses for a year.

 

I am of the opinion that should you wish to use the NHS you should be able to speak English at the very least. Or paying for your own translator.

 

Keep them coming.

 

 

 

Yes, 2.5p/month/British person represents an unnecessary expense to ensure that people who can't speak English can receive the healthcare they are entitled to....

 

The problem with this thread is that numbers are thrown about with no context, but then that's a problem with all thinking on a national scale. 

 

In terms of value for money, the NHS is amongst the top in the world. People say its becoming "unaffordable". The alternative is even less affordable.

[HauptmannUK]

17 minutes ago, naboo said:

 

 

In terms of value for money, the NHS is amongst the top in the world. People say its becoming "unaffordable". The alternative is even less affordable.

I agree. I believe the US system costs about 16x more, per head of population, than the NHS. And the US has an infant mortality rate comparable with developing countries. It does however have a lot of rich doctors and insurance companies.

In general it seems that the Northern European (and Japanese) public health care systems provide the optimum care, although are a little more costly than the NHS. The UK is still a rich country and the health and welfare of its citizens should always be a top priority.

[Lokie]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

" Free" healthcare does not exist, your taxes pay for it .

afraid it does only not for UK taxpayers... obviously you have not visited an NHS hospital for sometime, I shall be tactful and just say there is quite a few other nationalities using the service, do you think they will pay anything for the care rendered...?

[KBsinter]

10 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

I would have to disagree , the nhs was set up to provide free healthcare, 

I think this link provides an historical look 

http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

WOW!!!what a revelation,it gives an understanding to the NHS problems, it has for sure been to liberal

with its services, they acted like it was a Charity,especially to the common wealth countries,enough 

said,I am wandering.

Edited September 17, 2016 by KBsinter

[SgtRock]

10 hours ago, steve187 said:

are you saying everything else should be paid for. without too much thinking childbirth and all illnesses are not included in your list

 

All illnesses are covered under 

 

Quote

The treatment of infections and diseases.

 

No one is saying that everything else should be paid for.

 

Primary * Free * healthcare as per the list I provided

 

Quote

To maintain Breathing

To arrest Bleeding

The treatment of Breaks and Burns

The treatment of infections and diseases.

 

It is not provided by Politicians out of the goodness of their collective hearts. It is provided primarily as the basics for keeping people alive.

 

1. So that the young are fit and healthy to learn

2. So that those of a working age are kept fit and healthy to work.

 

In both instances with the hope that the vast majority will go on and actually be a benefit to society.

 

That is what Primary * Free * healthcare is all about.

 

Then you have Secondary * Free * Healthcare. This would cover things like Maternity, Mental Health etc. Not life saving but necessary . 

[SgtRock]

9 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

1. Brexit has nothing to do with the NHS. The promised extra £350m a week for the NHS was a blatant lie.

2. I'm British but have lived and worked in the US, France, Germany and some other countries. The NHS might not deliver to French or German standards but it is infinitely better than the US system, which is totally dysfunctional.

8. About 8 years ago I was diagnosed with a dreadful and potentially terminal illness.  I quickly received highly specialist care of very high quality that saved my life. I could never have afforded this care privately and most insurance policies would not have covered it on cost grounds.  Looking on internet forums for sufferers of this disorder it was heartbreaking to see US-based posters dying because they either had no insutance coverage or they had hit their coverage limits. They were writing begging letters to drug companies for treatment.

 

This would have been a great post if you had actually read and understood the OP.

 

1. No-one said that Brexit was anything to do with the NHS. I said that Brexit Gave the UK a blank canvas to get on the right tracks. The NHS being one of those tracks that need repairing.

 

Over the course of 3 posts, within this thread, without even trying, savings have been identified that dwarf the £ 350 Million a week claimed by the Brexit camp. 

 

This is what would have made it a great post.

 

2. The remainder of your post actually highlights what I have said throughout the thread. The NHS needs to change or people are going to require Medical insurance / Private Healthcare that is going to cost far more than they currently pay through taxation, or is some cases do not pay at all.

 

 

[SgtRock]

9 hours ago, naboo said:

 

Yes, 2.5p/month/British person represents an unnecessary expense to ensure that people who can't speak English can receive the healthcare they are entitled to....

 

The problem with this thread is that numbers are thrown about with no context, but then that's a problem with all thinking on a national scale. 

 

In terms of value for money, the NHS is amongst the top in the world. People say its becoming "unaffordable". The alternative is even less affordable.

 

1. 2.5p a month is an irrelevance. How many people in the UK, who cannot speak English do you think are actually entitled to free healthcare ?

 

2. See point 1 above. Every number that has been posted on this thread has been in context.

 

3. The NHS is value for money ? Dream on. It never has been value for money, it was never meant to be value for money. It was there to provide a service.

 

The only part you got correct. The alternatives are even less affordable. The whole essence of the OP. To highlight that the NHS is unaffordable, the reasons why the NHS is unaffordable and reasons to rectify this, so that the far more expensive alternatives ( for people ) never have to make an appearance for most of the population.

 

Carry on in its current form, that is exactly what will happen.

[alant]

On 9/17/2016 at 9:42 AM, SgtRock said:

 

A forensic analysis of the current NHS  costs / current service / future knock on effect is a waste of time and money.

 

The NHS in its current form is unsustainable and will lead to an extinct NHS and Private Medical / Healthcare Insurance.

 

The objective of the thread was to try and highlight where savings could be made by slashing non Primary Care costs.

 

You never know, might just get lucky and save the UK population from Private Healthcare costs.

My apologies for missing the objective of the thread and it is certainly something to consider. Would you include maternity in the equation? Pregnancy and childbirth can not be described as an illness...

In this respect trying to take the service out of the hands of the ill informed and politically correct may prove a challenge.

For info

I will always maintain that if you do not know the costs of the operation you are running and the service it is mandated to change messing with it is likely to lead to further financial problems and I am sure the private sector will not take over without detailed costing or decent get out clauses but as you say, parhaps that is a different subject.

[SgtRock]

8 minutes ago, alant said:

My apologies for missing the objective of the thread and it is certainly something to consider. Would you include maternity in the equation? Pregnancy and childbirth can not be described as an illness...

In this respect trying to take the service out of the hands of the ill informed and politically correct may prove a challenge.

For info

I will always maintain that if you do not know the costs of the operation you are running and the service it is mandated to change messing with it is likely to lead to further financial problems and I am sure the private sector will not take over without detailed costing or decent get out clauses but as you say, parhaps that is a different subject.

 

No worries. The objective of the thread is to see the NHS continuing to provide * Free * Primary medical care. Not what it has morphed into, which will ultimately see its total destruction and Private healthcare being the norm that many people will simple not be able to afford.

 

A follow on post will hopefully answer your question ( s )

 

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

It is not provided by Politicians out of the goodness of their collective hearts. It is provided primarily as the basics for keeping people alive.

 

1. So that the young are fit and healthy to learn

2. So that those of a working age are kept fit and healthy to work.

 

In both instances with the hope that the vast majority will go on and actually be a benefit to society.

 

That is what Primary * Free * healthcare is all about.

 

Then you have Secondary * Free * Healthcare. This would cover things like Maternity, Mental Health etc. Not life saving but necessary . 

 

[Strange]

11 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

I quickly received highly specialist care of very high quality that saved my life. I could never have afforded this care privately and most insurance policies would not have covered it on cost grounds.  Looking on internet forums for sufferers of this disorder it was heartbreaking to see US-based posters dying because they either had no insutance coverage or they had hit their coverage limits. They were writing begging letters to drug companies for treatment.

 

False. If you are sick in the USA, have no money, no insurance, no car, you can call 911, be picked up my ambulance, and treated in the ER and taken care of. You will be billed and if you do not have insurance your rates will be substantially lower. You will not be left out in the cold to die thats just nonsense. The hospitals will setup payment plans for people and even if you can not pay anything at all, nothing will happen. You will not be banned from the hospital. These costs are absorbed by the hospital. 

 

11 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

And the US has an infant mortality rate comparable with developing countries.

 

Why do you guys say stuff like this? So much untruth here. Show me some unbiased factual information to support this BS. Not a BBC/guardian.uk article. 

 

10 hours ago, KBsinter said:

I would have to disagree , the nhs was set up to provide free healthcare, 

 

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Primary * Free * healthcare as per the list I provided

 

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

That is what Primary * Free * healthcare is all about.

 

Then you have Secondary * Free * Healthcare. This would cover things like Maternity, Mental Health etc. Not life saving but necessary .

 

26 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

The objective of the thread is to see the NHS continuing to provide * Free * Primary medical care.

 

Its not free though. You guys are taxed at a much higher rate than we are and don't get much in return for it. 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114

 

http://blog.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/paye/tax/comparison-of-uk-and-usa-take-home/

[thaibeachlovers]

On 17 กันยายน 2559 at 3:20 PM, jamie2009 said:

There are a few issues with the NHS none associated with the actual care provided which I believe still be very good.

1) Chief Executives are there associates on massive salaries, they are non medical people. They then receive a Redundancy Package and return on a Consultancy basis on even more money. What happened to the Managers and Matrons who used to run the hospitals ?

2) Drugs Companies, the NHS pay well over the odds for Drugs, whose fault, bit on both sides.

3) Hospitals built under the PFI Schemes, big business making mega bucks leasing them back.

They have closed the A&E in my town, reason, not enough staff, if you have a Heart Attack they might as well take you to the Morgue as its at least a 35 minute drive to the nearest A&E on a road notorious for traffic hold ups.

 

Just guessing, but I reckon nurses don't want to work in A & E because of the abuse they get from their patients. I certainly wouldn't have chosen to work in A & E towards the end of my career ( late 1990s ).

[smokie36]

2 hours ago, EvieG2017 said:

I just thought I'd input another concern we all may be experiencing with the unpredictability of Brexit and its impact on U.K citizens. There has been a lot of discussion about tax implications, both direct and indirect, certainly, Brexit will have an impact on tax law. 

 

With NHS already being currently underpaid, I'm wondering how fellow NHS workers feel about the possibility of paying higher taxes on an already measly salary if what we actually do is took into consideration? 

 

The current taxation on a junior nurses salary (which I'm currently on) stands at around 20%. The issue is not the tax rate itself but the diabolical take-home salary us nurses are left with after tax. My salary about £22,000 per year after tax results in a take-home income of just £1,526 I used this income tax calculator to work that out. 

 

What can we do if the tax rate goes up and our salaries continue to be so low? 

 

Does anyone have any opinion on this?? 

 

You won't find a sensible opinion on this thread Evie....its all about ranting against what the posters view as minority groups who deserve hanging.

 

The 12bn quid they want to save on gastric banding procedures is my first target.

 

What do the posters propose to do with these people who otherwise will likely end up in ICU beds for months on ventilators after exhausting the NHS of many other treatments and ailments especially if they are young.

 

The next one is obviously making abortion a paid for service as when those who cannot afford to pay have their babies the state will be paying to house and support both mother and baby for how many years?

 

The manifesto set out by the clowns on here is ludicrous as usual.

 

Think before you post.

 

The answer to you Evie is if you are young enough go and retrain and find another profession or move abroad where you will be appreciated.