Trump supporters struggle to sideline 'birther' issue

[ClutchClark]

We are certsinly getting side-tracked with the re-birth of this "Birther" topic.

 

Why did this reappear in the Press this past week? 

 

Did Trump bring it up? Did hillary re-hash it? Did Matt Lauer resurect it from its grave? 

 

Whoever did has created a sideshow diversion to draw attention from something else.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed. 

[LawrenceN]

How do we know Trump was born a US citizen? I demand to see his birth certificate.

Edited September 19, 2016 by LawrenceN

[LawrenceN]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

We are certsinly getting side-tracked with the re-birth of this "Birther" topic.

 

Why did this reappear in the Press this past week? 

 

Did Trump bring it up? Did hillary re-hash it? Did Matt Lauer resurect it from its grave? 

 

Whoever did has created a sideshow diversion to draw attention from something else.

 

You must have missed this in the OP: " The episode reflects Trump's penchant for spreading unsubstantiated claims when he stands to gain from them and his refusal to apologize or take responsibility when he's been wrong. . . . But in a one-on-one battle with Clinton, it can add up to a character questions with three debates and mere weeks to go before the Nov. 8 elections."

 

That's why it's not a sideshow. The man shows a glaring lack of integrity.

[Scotwight]

4 hours ago, PTC said:

 

So what? Are you being deliberately obtuse to try to continue diverting from the issue. You reaffirm the title of this thread.

 

Who cares how many awards won by Matchplay when no-one is attacking them. I am saying that James Asher has not presented any evidence to substantiate his claim. There is evidence to substantiate the actions of the HRC campaign volunteer and the actions of the Campaign in response.

 

You are the one getting all puffed up about the precious reputation of this organization.

 

But again, an attempted diversion from the issue. You certainly are representative of the OP. This is what happens when you try to smear by innuendo and insinuation.

 

Trump says HRC started this. Trump supporters said HRC started this. HRC did not start this. It was started in 2004. It was perpetuated by Trump and his supporters from 2011 - 2016. Alleged conversations are evidence of nothing, particularly when there is no evidence to substantiate them.

 

Keep struggling on.

You attacked McClatchy saying "Focusing on the 2008 timeline ignores what was happening in 2004 but I can understand why that is inconvenient for those who operate by innuendo and insinuation."  When they ran a story entitled " 2 Clinton supporters in ’08 reportedly shared Obama ‘birther’ story "

[Skywalker69]

[Scotwight]

4 hours ago, thaihome said:

You cut off off (without showing by an ellipse that you had done so)  your original quote of the article that included Blumenthal's denial the conversation took place.

 

Selective quoting, without acknowledgment, is a sure sign of bias posting. Has nothing to do with the McClatchy bias, since they reported the claim and the denial. You did not include the denial.

TH 

I linked the story.  That means I want you to read the story and make up your own mind if Hillary people started the birther story.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article102354777.html

 

The news wrote the story so people could make up their minds who is lying.  There is two threads running now on Thai Visa about this non issue to make sure we all consider it a critical debating point in the campaign.   

[Scotwight]

1 hour ago, LawrenceN said:

 

You must have missed this in the OP: " The episode reflects Trump's penchant for spreading unsubstantiated claims when he stands to gain from them and his refusal to apologize or take responsibility when he's been wrong. . . . But in a one-on-one battle with Clinton, it can add up to a character questions with three debates and mere weeks to go before the Nov. 8 elections."

 

That's why it's not a sideshow. The man shows a glaring lack of integrity.

Do you really think Hillary will show up for the debates and if so is this point one which will be asked the debates?  I can't think of many questions she stands a chance of coming out equal or on top and the birther issue is one of her Stronger (with the usual he said no I didn't say).  

 

I'd like to think we will get an honest discussion of issues during the debates but the emphasis on things like the birther issue  I'm afraid will rear it's ugly head to give the Democratic candidate a chance.  

[PTC]

13 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

You attacked McClatchy saying "Focusing on the 2008 timeline ignores what was happening in 2004 but I can understand why that is inconvenient for those who operate by innuendo and insinuation."  When they ran a story entitled " 2 Clinton supporters in ’08 reportedly shared Obama ‘birther’ story "

 

You are mistaken.

 

I attacked you for your misleading representation of McClatchy's report.

 

I further pointed out that the allegation that Blumenthal suggested Obama was born in Kenya was and remains unsubstantiated and denied by him.

 

You continue to struggle with this issue.

[PTC]

17 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Do you really think Hillary will show up for the debates and if so is this point one which will be asked the debates?  I can't think of many questions she stands a chance of coming out equal or on top and the birther issue is one of her Stronger (with the usual he said no I didn't say).  

 

I'd like to think we will get an honest discussion of issues during the debates but the emphasis on things like the birther issue  I'm afraid will rear it's ugly head to give the Democratic candidate a chance.  

 

The five year effort by Trump and now his Campaign and supporters, including you, to delegitimize the first African American President of the United States is characteristic of your collective attitudes to issues of race and minorities.

 

The issue of race in America is not a non-issue. No amount of wishing otherwise or trying to dismiss the Birther movement will make it so.

 

There is a reason that Trump is polling at 0% among African Americans in some areas. There is a reason that his Campaign is scared witless about the Obama Coalition. That is the reason Trump was forced to make that humiliating statement last week on this issue and that is the reason his supporters are trying to minimize the issue.

 

Remember. The Obama Coalition. I hope it wipes the floor with Trump and all his bigots.

[Publicus]

 

Trump is so blatantly the culprit and for so long and so loudly that it beggars belief anyone would give those unauthorised Clinton supporters of 2008 any more than a quick and brief passing mention. 

 

Which is what the History books will do if they give it any mention at all in their presentation of the Hillary Clinton presidency.

 

At best this is politics, politics, politics. In real socio-cultural terms, it is a blatant racism from the right. Led by Donald Trump, the nominee for Potus of the Republican Party of 2016.

 

Now however they don't want to talk about it any more. Now it is a non-issue, trivial, inconsequential in the larger scheme of things such as building a wall and prohibiting people of a certain religion entering the country.

 

It could appear the U.S. political center is barely holding up at this point, so let's turn now towards the debates where Trump will continue his March Against Washington and the Constitution.  

 

Only one person stands between Trump and his yahoos so a vote for a "third party" candidate might bring a rerun of the year 2000 election. The person blocking the way is in fact Hillary Clinton supported by the rest of us over on this side.

[Scotwight]

7 hours ago, PTC said:

 

One supporter sent an email. Once the Campaign learned of this, that person was dismissed and the Campaign publicly rejected any substance to or involvement in the Birther allegation. There is evidence for this and it is referenced in the McClatchy article.

 

Blumenthal denied the accusation by James Asher and Asher provides no evidence.

 

Focusing on the 2008 timeline ignores what was happening in 2004 but I can understand why that is inconvenient for those who operate by innuendo and insinuation.

This post attacks the news organization that wrote the story, "2 Clinton supporters in ’08 reportedly shared Obama ‘birther’ story"  by writing, "I can understand why that is inconvenient for those who operate by innuendo and insinuation."

 

The problem with your attack is the caliber and reputation of the   McClatchy  News organization which is above reproach.  Debate the story instead of attacking the messenger which in this case is a trustworthy media source.  

[Scotwight]

6 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

Trump is so blatantly the culprit and for so long and so loudly that it beggars belief anyone would give those unauthorised Clinton supporters of 2008 any more than a quick and brief passing mention. 

 

Which is what the History books will do if they give it any mention at all in their presentation of the Hillary Clinton presidency.

 

At best this is politics, politics, politics. In real socio-cultural terms, it is a blatant racism from the right. Led by Donald Trump, the nominee for Potus of the Republican Party of 2016.

 

Now however they don't want to talk about it any more. Now it is a non-issue, trivial, inconsequential in the larger scheme of things such as building a wall and prohibiting people of a certain religion entering the country.

 

It could appear the U.S. political center is barely holding up at this point, so let's turn now towards the debates where Trump will continue his March Against Washington and the Constitution.  

 

Only one person stands between Trump and his yahoos so a vote for a "third party" candidate might bring a rerun of the year 2000 election. The person blocking the way is in fact Hillary Clinton supported by the rest of us over on this side.

You wrote, "it beggars belief anyone would give those unauthorised Clinton supporters of 2008 any more than a quick and brief passing mention."  Blame it on the Washington Post who brought up the birther issue 4 days ago.   Trump didn't bring it up. The Washington Post brought it up.  

[Slip]

Quote

This post attacks the news organization that wrote the story, "2 Clinton supporters in ’08 reportedly shared Obama ‘birther’ story"  by writing, "I can understand why that is inconvenient for those who operate by innuendo and insinuation."

 

The problem with your attack is the caliber and reputation of the   McClatchy  News organization which is above reproach.  Debate the story instead of attacking the messenger which in this case is a trustworthy media source.  

 

 

Quote

You wrote, "it beggars belief anyone would give those unauthorised Clinton supporters of 2008 any more than a quick and brief passing mention."  Blame it on the Washington Post who brought up the birther issue 4 days ago.   Trump didn't bring it up. The Washington Post brought it up.  

Strike 2...

Edited September 19, 2016 by Slip

[PTC]

3 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

You are trying to distract from the story.  The title of the story is , "2 Clinton supporters in ’08 reportedly shared Obama ‘birther’ story"

 

The link where you can find the story is http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article102354777.html

 

That is my whole point.  That is an on topic post about an on topic story. 

 

You are making things up now. The topic of the thread is Trump supporters struggle to sideline Birther issue.

 

The McClatchy article is just one report. I linked to in in the other thread in response to another poster who is perpetuating the Birther LIE and this poster is now trying to use it to distract from the topic. The topic is not that 2 Clinton Supporters in 08 shared the birther story however I will repeat for the third time my response to that report.

 

Only one volunteer shared that story. The allegation against Blumenthal is unsubstantiated and has been denied by him. So the article headline is wrong.

 

As I said, you personify the OP. Incessant diversion away from the topic. Fabrications and allegations against posters that are blatantly not true and easily disprovable. This continues the intellectual dishonesty of the Trump supporters and the Candidate himself. Please continue posting links to the article in question. It entirely demonstrates my point.

[Scotwight]

3 minutes ago, PTC said:

 

You are making things up now. The topic of the thread is Trump supporters struggle to sideline Birther issue.

 

The McClatchy article is just one report. I linked to in in the other thread in response to another poster who is perpetuating the Birther LIE and this poster is now trying to use it to distract from the topic. The topic is not that 2 Clinton Supporters in 08 shared the birther story however I will repeat for the third time my response to that report.

 

Only one volunteer shared that story. The allegation against Blumenthal is unsubstantiated and has been denied by him. So the article headline is wrong.

 

As I said, you personify the OP. Incessant diversion away from the topic. Fabrications and allegations against posters that are blatantly not true and easily disprovable. This continues the intellectual dishonesty of the Trump supporters and the Candidate himself. Please continue posting links to the article in question. It entirely demonstrates my point.

My point was simple.  2 Clinton supporters in 08 shared the birther story.  This point of view is discussed in the article I linked.   http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article102354777.html

 

Trump didn't bring up the issue the Washington Post brought up the issue in an effort to harm Trumps candidacy for President and to rid the news of this media generated anti Trump bias his staff is trying to get out the truth.   

[PTC]

1 minute ago, Scotwight said:

My point was simple.  2 Clinton supporters in 08 shared the birther story.  This point of view is discussed in the article I linked.   http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article102354777.html

 

Trump didn't bring up the issue the Washington Post brought up the issue in an effort to harm Trumps candidacy for President and to rid the news of this media generated anti Trump bias his staff is trying to get out the truth.   

 

There is no evidence that 2 Clinton supporters shared the Birther story. There is evidence that only one supporter did.

 

Again, keep posting the link to th article. It demonstrates my point entirely. A very simple point. One case has evidence. The other is an unsubstantiated allegation.

 

I do not believe your assertion that Trump did not bring up the birther issue and I cite the fact that he was promoting this LIE in 2011 well before his candidacy for the 2016 elections. If you were serious about this allegation, you would have provided justification. But no, you continue with innuendo and insinuation.

[Jingthing]

trump and now the republican party think American voters are very, very stupid with the memory spans of Zika carrying insects.

 

They may be right!

 

Quote

The Trump campaign’s effort to whitewash his birther history — in which he fed racist conspiracy theories for years — is being widely called out as dishonest. And that’s good. But Trump’s new narrative is actually a lot worse than the rendering of it we’ve seen in most media accounts suggests, and now the party has institutionally joined in promoting it.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/09/19/the-republican-party-is-now-institutionally-defending-donald-trumps-racism/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.0ee9ffaf45cf

[Scotwight]

3 minutes ago, PTC said:

 

There is no evidence that 2 Clinton supporters shared the Birther story. There is evidence that only one supporter did.

 

Again, keep posting the link to th article. It demonstrates my point entirely. A very simple point. One case has evidence. The other is an unsubstantiated allegation.

 

I do not believe your assertion that Trump did not bring up the birther issue and I cite the fact that he was promoting this LIE in 2011 well before his candidacy for the 2016 elections. If you were serious about this allegation, you would have provided justification. But no, you continue with innuendo and insinuation.

(Number 1)  “During the 2008 Democratic primary, Sid Blumenthal visited the Washington Bureau of McClatchy Co.,” Asher said in an email Friday to McClatchy, noting that he was at the time the investigative editor and in charge of Africa coverage.

“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya." 

 

(Number 2) Solis Doyle said she’d called Obama campaign official David Plouffe at the time “to apologize and basically say that this was not coming from us. It was a rogue volunteer coordinator.”

 

I think everyone now including Trump thinks Obama was born in the US but that is not the point.  The point is where the birther thing started.  For information on where it started read the above.  

 

 

[Scotwight]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

trump and now the republican party think American voters are very, very stupid with the memory spans of Zika carrying insects.

 

They may be right!

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/09/19/the-republican-party-is-now-institutionally-defending-donald-trumps-racism/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.0ee9ffaf45cf

Makes sense to me.  Hillary dropping in the polls in the battleground states and the Washington Post invents another Trump negative and re ignites the birther controversy.  

 

I do believe the Washington Post started this recent controversy 4 days ago.  If I'm wrong let me know.  

Edited September 19, 2016 by Scotwight

[PTC]

17 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

(Number 1)  “During the 2008 Democratic primary, Sid Blumenthal visited the Washington Bureau of McClatchy Co.,” Asher said in an email Friday to McClatchy, noting that he was at the time the investigative editor and in charge of Africa coverage.

“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya." 

 

(Number 2) Solis Doyle said she’d called Obama campaign official David Plouffe at the time “to apologize and basically say that this was not coming from us. It was a rogue volunteer coordinator.”

 

I think everyone now including Trump thinks Obama was born in the US but that is not the point.  The point is where the birther thing started.  For information on where it started read the above.  

 

 

 

I can't believe that I have to say it for the fourth time. The accusation in Number 1 is unsubstantiated. Blumenthal has denied it. If there is any evidence that it is true, then please provide it and I will then acknowledge the McClatchy heading as being accurate.

 

Neither does the McClatchy article identify the source of the allegation. I have posted two sources that identify the rumors as starting in Illinois in 2004.

 

My point is simple. It is consistent from my first response to your promotion of false and misleading information. You, like other Trump supporters have used innuendo, insinuation and outright lying to try and delegitimize President Obama. You, like other Trump supporters continue these tactics in the vain struggle to sideline the Birther issue.

 

People know why the Birther issue was promoted. People know why Hillary Clinton could not have been involved in starting or promoting it. There is a reason why Trump has 0% of African American voters in some areas. It is time for payback. I hope this issue never goes away during this lead up to the election. I hope that it is front and center of the debates. This invidiousness alone is cause for Trump being booted out of the political process in November.

 

Keep struggling. Keep the issue in people's minds. A quite simple point really.

Edited September 19, 2016 by PTC

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

[Scotwight]

18 minutes ago, PTC said:

I can't believe that I have to say it for the fourth time. The accusation in Number 1 is unsubstantiated. Blumenthal has denied it. If there is any evidence that it is true, then please provide it and I will then acknowledge the McClatchy heading as being accurate.

 

Neither does the McClatchy article identify the source of the allegation. I have posted two sources that identify the rumors as starting in Illinois in 2004.

 

My point is simple. It is consistent from my first response to your promotion of false and misleading information. You, like other Trump supporters have used innuendo, insinuation and outright lying to try and delegitimize President Obama. You, like other Trump supporters continue these tactics in the vain struggle to sideline the Birther issue.

 

People know why the Birther issue was promoted. People know why Hillary Clinton could not have been involved in starting or promoting it. There is a reason why Trump has 0% of African American voters in some areas. It is time for payback. I hope this issue never goes away during this lead up to the election. I hope that it is front and center of the debates. This invidiousness alone is cause for Trump being booted out of the political process in November.

 

Keep struggling. Keep the issue in people's minds. A quite simple point really.

McClatchy sent a reporter to Kenya to investigate the story.  That costs money.  A news organization would not do it unless they had a good source and Blumenthal is that source.  McClatchy has no reason to lie.  A news organization with that much credibility does not lie.  

 

This is a very important issue.  If one of the most respected news organizations was lying they would be sued.  It's not like the anti Trump people don't have the money to sue.  

 

McClatchy is not supporting Trump.  There is no bias.  They have 29 newspapers.  It comes down to who do you believe, Blumenthal or McClatchy?

[ClutchClark]

5 hours ago, LawrenceN said:

 

You must have missed this in the OP: " The episode reflects Trump's penchant for spreading unsubstantiated claims when he stands to gain from them and his refusal to apologize or take responsibility when he's been wrong. . . . But in a one-on-one battle with Clinton, it can add up to a character questions with three debates and mere weeks to go before the Nov. 8 elections."

 

That's why it's not a sideshow. The man shows a glaring lack of integrity.

 

Like I said in my post...a sideshow...a diversionary tactic...of zero consequence.

 

It was a valid question when obama was running for Prez but today it means nothing.  The matter was settled long ago. 

 

Why do democrats love to always play the part of a victim against some make-believe injustice and demand apologies?

 

 

 

 

[PTC]

7 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

McClatchy sent a reporter to Kenya to investigate the story.  That costs money.  A news organization would not do it unless they had a good source and Blumenthal is that source.  McClatchy has no reason to lie.  A news organization with that much credibility does not lie.  

 

This is a very important issue.  If one of the most respected news organizations was lying they would be sued.  It's not like the anti Trump people don't have the money to sue.  

 

McClatchy is not supporting Trump.  There is no bias.  They have 29 newspapers.  It comes down to who do you believe, Blumenthal or McClatchy?

 

Of course it is important for you to justify your use of innuendo and insinuation to push a fabrication.

 

So you have shares in the company or someone you know works for them. This does not alter the fact that the report is of an alleged conversation and this allegation has been denied. Talking about trips to Africa and what Trump may or may not do with his money is all well and good. It does not change the fact that neither the reporter in question, nor you, nor anyone else who has repeated the allegation against Blumenthal has provided anything to substantiate it.

 

It matters not how many Pulitzers have bee won. If a reporter cannot substantiate an allegation then it cannot be presented as fact. It remains an allegation. I have not called Asher a liar. Who knows why he made the statements that he did. Who knows if he is accurately describing what was said. Who knows the objective of the person allegedly saying these things. That's the problem with unsubstantiated allegations, with innuendo, with insinuation - nobody actually knows what the truth is.

 

McClatchy is not at fault. Asher is not at fault. You and your fellow travelers who take unsubstantiated allegations and present them as fact to justify a fabrication for political gain are at fault. No amount of hiding behind some false outrage on behalf of the credibility of the McClatchy organization can cover this. Your posts are on record. Your deliberate misquoting and misrepresentation of the McClatchy article is online. I have read it. Other posters have called you out on it.

 

Quite simple really.

[Publicus]

3 hours ago, Scotwight said:

You wrote, "it beggars belief anyone would give those unauthorised Clinton supporters of 2008 any more than a quick and brief passing mention."  Blame it on the Washington Post who brought up the birther issue 4 days ago.   Trump didn't bring it up. The Washington Post brought it up.  

 

Let's just say then the WaPo started it and Donald Trump as he said finished it. He thinks he's finished it. No, not after the past several years of it, consistently.

 

It's good to see the campaign turn around back in favor of the Force against the Dark Side. The Birther madness from Trump has in fact finished him. Finally at long last, the issue that does in Trump. 

[Ulysses G.]

16 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 The Birther madness from Trump has in fact finished him. Finally at long last, the issue that does in Trump. 

 

That sounds like wishful thinking.. or delusion.  Pretty much no one cares about this issue other than Hillary's fallen angels.

[Richard W]

29 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Don't President Obama have a Birth Certificate?! He produced one, which even Trump now says is legal!

The way Hawaii produces the PDFs of birth certificates makes them look like fakes.

[Ulysses G.]

2 hours ago, Scotwight said:

McClatchy sent a reporter to Kenya to investigate the story.  That costs money.  A news organization would not do it unless they had a good source and Blumenthal is that source.  McClatchy has no reason to lie.  A news organization with that much credibility does not lie.  

 

This is a very important issue.  If one of the most respected news organizations was lying they would be sued.  It's not like the anti Trump people don't have the money to sue.  

 

McClatchy is not supporting Trump.  There is no bias.  They have 29 newspapers.  It comes down to who do you believe, Blumenthal or McClatchy?

 

McClatchy by a long shot.  Blumenthal - like Hillary - has a proven record of lying. If he would lie about serving in Vietnam, he would lie about anything. As you said,  McClatchy has no reason to lie.  A news organization with that much credibility does not lie - Blumenthal DOES.

 

 Richard Blumenthal served in Vietnam -- or at least he told the American people that he did. According to people who know Blumenthal, his war record grew over the years. That hapless tool of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, the New York Times, found no less than eight articles between 2003 and 2009 in which Blumenthal spoke of his service in Vietnam. Now, it seems, the Connecticut Democrat politician did not serve in Vietnam at all. In fact, Blumenthal took extraordinary steps to avoid service in Vietnam.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/05/blumenthal_and_the_liars_party.html#ixzz4KjDMXDl6

 

[Opl]

Donald Trump absorbs reality and replace it with a world of conspiracies and machinations.

This posture is accompanied by a phrase repeated often during the campaign: "There is something going on"

Fairleigh Dickinson University’s PublicMind Poll Finds Trump Supporters More Conspiracy-Minded Than Other Republicans

 

http://view2.fdu.edu/publicmind/2016/160504/