British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, gdgbb said:

 

Why would the Finnsh government intervene (even if it could) in a case in Thailand involving a Briton, do you think Finland will offer one of Finnwatch as a sacrifice to take Hall's place?

 

Andy Hall works for Finnwatch, Finnwatch is a Finnish organisation, either the Finnish Government backs Finnwatch or it does not...

[DiscoDan]

If Andy Hall really cares about the plight of Burmese workers he should go to Burma and investigate conditions there then maybe they would not need to come to Thailand to find better work and pay. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/burma-minimum-wage-uk-retailers

 

"She earns 1,400 Myanmar Kyat (71p) a day in basic wages for a nine-hour day and 19p an hour for in overtime, which she is usually expected to do at least four hours a day. “I have a good job compared to workers in other factories,” she said. But she said conditions were hot and tough, with just one fan between 80 workers in her part of the factory. "

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

If Andy Hall really cares about the plight of Burmese workers he should go to Burma and investigate conditions there then maybe they would not need to come to Thailand to find better work and pay. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/burma-minimum-wage-uk-retailers

 

"She earns 1,400 Myanmar Kyat (71p) a day in basic wages for a nine-hour day and 19p an hour for in overtime, which she is usually expected to do at least four hours a day. “I have a good job compared to workers in other factories,” she said. But she said conditions were hot and tough, with just one fan between 80 workers in her part of the factory. "

In other words its ok to exploit migrant workers and turn a blind eye because the conditions in their own countries are far worse?

[DiscoDan]

5 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

He lives in Thailand and is concerned with workers rights in Thailand. 

 

You're having a 'mare on this thread mate, maybe time to step back from the computer.

He was living in Burma when he done report for finnwatch but dont let facts get in the way.

[Xircal]

25 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

 

Well thats what has just happened to a poultry company that lost its contract to Betagro and had to lay off 100 workers after  claims made by 6 or 7 workers I wonder if the other 93 workers are happy being made redundant ?  they might not of been paid the minimum wage but it was still more than they would earn in Burma.

 

Don't you think its better for all concerned (workers+companies) to resolve these issues behind closed doors with relevant agencies rather than trying to smear companies using  social media ? 

 

One of the workers who complained said he was getting 7 USD a day roughly 240 thb 

 

( sorry I stand corrected Burma now has a minimum wage introduced in Aug 2015)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/burma-minimum-wage-uk-retailers

On Saturday the Burmese government set a minimum wage of 3,600 kyat (£1.82) 

 

GBP 1.82 =  THB 81

 

So do you really think those 90 workers will be happy and feel that MWRN has saved them from being exploited when they are back in Burma earning 80 odd Baht a day instead of THB 240 ?

 

 

 

 

 

Plenty of companies around that exploit workers, so those who you described as losing their jobs won't be out of work for long.

 

Thailand unfortunately doesn't fit the bill as a country which respects and protects workers rights. But that doesn't mean we should tolerate companies that exploit workers for their own ends.

 

 

[Deepinthailand]

1 hour ago, Xircal said:

 

So you support child labor and companies that pay less than the minimum wage (which is a pittance) to their workers do you?

I want to enjoy and choose whatever products I see fit to buy. Not what some tree hugging do gooders decides I should buy. 

[shillhater]

5 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

He was living in Burma when he done report for finnwatch but dont let facts get in the way.

pmsl...you have some neck.

[Xircal]

Just now, Deepinthailand said:

I want to enjoy and choose whatever products I see fit to buy. Not what some tree hugging do gooders decides I should buy. 

 

You sound like a pretty callous individual if you'd be prepared to buy something knowing a 10 year old child had to slave away for 12 hours a day in a sweltering hot factory to make it.

[Johpa]

Chaiyo!!!

[Trouble]

9 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

 

I think the larger issue here is the fact that the Thai authorities never took the allegations in the report seriously enough to do "thorough" investigation of their own.  Whether Andrew could back up the claims in court or not is not proof that the report was untrue.  I doubt that anyone could have persuaded people, who had been wronged, to come forward in a court.  As most have said corruption in Thailand has reached all levels and into the judicial system.  Even if evidence had been provided in court the judges would have been bought off anyway.  Thank god most of use come from countries that do, in spite of the flaws, seem to have some semblance of fairness in the judicial systems. It does not exist in Thailand.

[Deepinthailand]

Just now, Xircal said:

 

You sound like a pretty callous individual if you'd be prepared to buy something knowing a 10 year old child had to slave away for 12 hours a day in a sweltering hot factory to make it.

I will say again I buy what I like, what I want to buy, when I want to buy it.  I will not be dictated to by tree huggers. Freedom of choice is something I have fought for and have seen these tree hugging parasites once to often trying to erode that for there own personal gains.

[shillhater]

6 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

I will say again I buy what I like, what I want to buy, when I want to buy it.  I will not be dictated to by tree huggers. Freedom of choice is something I have fought for and have seen these tree hugging parasites once to often trying to erode that for there own personal gains.

i;m no lover of tree hugging do nothing ponces but i do not think Andy is a T,H...more of a guy who does not like people getting exploited..and fair play as you say the choice is yours were you spend your hard earned as is mine..

[joeyg]

6 hours ago, Polonius said:

That isn't even the point. 

 

The law is a <deleted> stupid law used by a demonic jerk, who rather than respond he reacts, chasing Andy Hall personally instead of Finnwatch, using the Singapore-styled criminalised defamation laws of Thailand.  

The company is using some laws to benefit it while it us breaking just about every labour law on the books... Those Laws are the law too, lame person. 

Furthermore, it no doubt saw the experience of the two other companies cited in the report, Unicord and Thai Union Manufacturing, and ignored their good example of actually listening to the report, and taking action to right the wrongs raised by it. 

I think you should resign your membership of Thai Visa and stop commenting. 
 

Thanks I needed a laugh.  Indeed my coconut water almost came out my nose.  Really thank you!  However reality can be a bitch.  And is definitely not for the masses... 

 

[joeyg]

30 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

You sound like a pretty callous individual if you'd be prepared to buy something knowing a 10 year old child had to slave away for 12 hours a day in a sweltering hot factory to make it.

I'm pretty sure all my shoes and shirts I bought in California were made in those factories.  Some electronics as well... 

[joeyg]

6 hours ago, spermwhale said:

No they don't. In all states Defamation is a civil tort. There are some states that have criminal libel laws but that's not the same as defamation. 

There are still states that have anti-sodomy laws on the books, but like criminal libel laws, they don't prosecute them.

 

Man that's a relief!

[Khun Han]

Natural Fruit could have cleaned up their act and approached their suppliers with incontravertible proof of their doing so. As could Betagro. Instead, they both tried to shoot the messenger. Betagro went bust, and I bet Natural Fruit will go the same way now, if they rely on exports. It's all they deserve. Good luck to them getting adequate recompense from Andy, but at least they saved some face for domestic consumption. Other, more ethical companies will take their market share and provide more jobs to enable them to do this .

Edited September 20, 2016 by Khun Han

[aussieinthailand]

1 hour ago, DiscoDan said:

 

Well thats what has just happened to a poultry company that lost its contract to Betagro and had to lay off 100 workers after  claims made by 6 or 7 workers I wonder if the other 93 workers are happy being made redundant ?  they might not of been paid the minimum wage but it was still more than they would earn in Burma.

 

Don't you think its better for all concerned (workers+companies) to resolve these issues behind closed doors with relevant agencies rather than trying to smear companies using  social media ? 

 

One of the workers who complained said he was getting 7 USD a day roughly 240 thb 

 

( sorry I stand corrected Burma now has a minimum wage introduced in Aug 2015)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/31/burma-minimum-wage-uk-retailers

On Saturday the Burmese government set a minimum wage of 3,600 kyat (£1.82) 

 

GBP 1.82 =  THB 81

 

So do you really think those 90 workers will be happy and feel that MWRN has saved them from being exploited when they are back in Burma earning 80 odd Baht a day instead of THB 240 ?

 

 

 

 

"they might not have been paid minimum wage but it was still more than they would earn in Burma"  

By your own reply 240 Bht is under minimum wage,, is that illegal?

Do you actually live here or are you a Pattyah bar stool swinger that has no idear what really is going on?  Sorry for those in Ptta  no offence intended.

A bowl of rice to feed your self and kids in Burma is how much?

A bowl of rice in Thailand is how much???  Then there is the BIB that come around every month to collect the brown bag  regardless if the workers have legit papers or not,  You have no idea of the conditions these people live under.

But your excuse is it's more than they would get back home..  

miniscule mind , even more minuscule scruples.  A disgusting point of view from a man who has never been it that position and responsibilities I would guess....

[Wilsonandson]

Could have been a lot worse. If he hadn't got the international media coverage he would have been jailed. He tried but migrant workers rights are deminishing worldwide not just Thailand. Anti immigrant is a global disease spreading.

[joeyg]

48 minutes ago, shillhater said:

i;m no lover of tree hugging do nothing ponces but i do not think Andy is a T,H...more of a guy who does not like people getting exploited..and fair play as you say the choice is yours were you spend your hard earned as is mine..

You can stand up, say the same and join him,  For the cause I mean...

[joeyg]

friends ask me what Thailand is like.  One of the things i often say is you really have to try hard to get in trouble here.  Unlike the Nanny United States.  Thailand is pretty cool...

[gamini]

12 hours ago, kingalfred said:

HR Noexistent in an undemocratic country

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

The result would have been the same under the previous government when the same ridiculous defamation laws existed. You cannot blame the coup and present military government for this.

[gamini]

12 hours ago, Tatsujin said:

Anyone that's deluded enough to think that this current crop of thieves at the top are any different to anyone before needs to think again.

 

It's all about protecting their revenue streams, nothing more.

 

Corruption continues to live on. Disgusting. And not even subtle about it.

the result would have been the same under so called previous democratic government when the same defamation laws were frequently used. so you can't blame this on the military

[balo]

There's always 2 sides to a story , even in Thailand. 

 

Anyway he is free to go and talk to the world about it in FInland already this week.  In the meantime TAT has already prepared a new tourist campaign that will be launched next week. . 

 

[swerver]

12 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

It's all over the BBC already, quote :  A spokesman for the British embassy in Bangkok said they would be raising the matter with the Thai authorities.

 

Well that's the kiss of death

 

 

All I get out of reading the 25 post above is that Finnwatch did it but it is located in Finland so the Thai courts have a hard time dragging Finnwatch into a Thai court so they did the next thing to an individual that happens to be in Thailand (as the photos show) and convicted a well-known person about the subject of mistreating workers into a Thai court and fined him TB-150,000 and 4-year in jail suspended. That got that case off the docket. Next case.

LOL in LOS,

[icare999]

13 hours ago, colinneil said:

Just another showcase trial.

Justice and the rule of law never came into it.

Farang guilty. Guilty for being here. guilty just for being a farang.

Srupid comment a Thai would also be found guilty im fed up with forang here mouthing nonsense and if your not here then you shoudl not comment if you are just go if you dont like it or like many do you think you know and are better than natives  

 

[hawker9000]

13 hours ago, sirmud63 said:

yep, shot themselves in the foot with both barrels this time .

 

Both feet were completely blown off long ago.  'Have been getting around on their knuckles for quite awhile now.

[hawker9000]

21 minutes ago, icare999 said:

Srupid comment a Thai would also be found guilty im fed up with forang here mouthing nonsense and if your not here then you shoudl not comment if you are just go if you dont like it or like many do you think you know and are better than natives  

 

LOL.  IOW, if they don't agree with you, they should shut up.  'Very enlightened.

[Jonathan Swift]

Being that losing face is big in Asian culture, and that today's world can impose sanctions for human rights violations, widespread news coverage from major national news agencies might have a positive effect. They don't like it when the US criticizes Prayuth for this kind of stuff, I can't help noticing that President Obama hasn't been arrested and tried, or even accused in absentia. I believe we've already imposed some sanctions. That would tend to cost them a whole lot more than they can recoup from their corrupt revenue stream, making such prosecutions unprofitable to say the least

[Shaunduhpostman]

1 hour ago, joeyg said:

I can assure you people don't care about Natural Fruit Company.  Americans, 62% have less than $1000 in savings. 21% have zero.  Believe me they've got "other things on their minds.  Other countries are in similar or worse condition.

In 1962 at 10 years old I was working in a shoe store for a $1.25 per hour happy as a clam.  Gave most of the money to my family  and I got a small allowance.

 

Later the US government paid for undergrad and grad school on the GI bill.  Now retired in Thailand.  Life is good.

 

Of course it is just one isolated incident that may seem insignificant to you and to most people, but it is exemplary of the kinds of things that are happening to many people on a wide scale in Thailand and globally: they are increasingly being attacked by their rich minorities, the corrupt governments etc. The problems people are having everywhere  are directly connected to what is happening with the Fruit Company case, it is that powerful people are running amok and unchecked, accountable to no one and nothing. Some people do care about these things Joey, and I care and many  care that Natural Fruit Company abuses it's workers and now appears it will continue to do so with complete impunity, that it uses its influence to abuse the law and the courts in Thailand.

 

You were happy with your shoe store wage, and you were taken care of but it didn't materialize out of the kindness of your employers' hearts. I am sure you recall a time when American workers fought for and got things like a weekend or a free education. People fought for these things and this is what is going on here, or appears to be, so for that reason it is interesting and I care though it is just some no name fruit company in the faraway swamps of Thailand. The Burmese workers had serious complaints, among them were not being paid, if I remember correctly. This is an issue for many people who work in Thailand, not least of whom would be Thais, so this is a case that for once  people are not just getting screwed and nothing is coming of it.

 

I am sure Americans would be interested in how an entire country runs itself in this kind of manner, that paying people who work extremely hard  is a mere option and if you try to do anything about it you could find yourself in prison and with a 10 million pounds sterling compensation bill to pay. Just because people don't care about something doesn't mean it isn't important and later on they may care if they don't now. 

 

If there were more of these fights back home, Americans wouldn't be in the kind of shape you say they are in. What is happening to people in America or anywhere is not in essence any different than this kind of garbagio from the Natural Fruit Company: corrupt justice systems, big business bought off corrupt governments, attacks on workers rights, wages and general well being and farcical elections, among other things, I'm sure I don't have to tell you.

[jimmybkk]

2 hours ago, joeyg said:

Thanks I needed a laugh.  Indeed my coconut water almost came out my nose.  Really thank you!  However reality can be a bitch.  And is definitely not for the masses... 

 

 

Hahaha... You're back... Nice to see you again, and to see that you're still toeing the party line. Now remind me... what was the point of that post of yours again...?