Anywhere Thais can go in Europe with UK visa?

[mrskint]

Think I know the answer to this but I'll ask anyway.....

Other than Turkey, is there anywhere in Europe my wife with a Thai passport on a spouse FLR (M) visa can go without getting an additional visa?

I know schengen visa is required for most places, just checking if there is anywhere we could go without one.

Cheers in advance.

[Donutz]

A Thai person with a UK visa will need a visa for most other countries such as Ireland or the Schengen area (which includes the Netherlands, Germany, France, Spain, Poland etc.) . Therefor the post by Stupidfarang is incorrect.  Some countries such as those who are planned to be part of Schengen in the future (Bulgaria for example) do allow access to their country on a Schengen visa, but as far as I know not UK visa's.  Russia is an option, if you consider it European. 

 

If you wish to visit mainland Europe, that is any EU or EEA (European Economic Area) country then the process to get a free visa via an accelerated and simplified procedure applies to  Thai (and other non EU) spouses of EU nationals who visit any other member state except the EU/EEA country that the EU national is a citizen of.  So as a Briton with a Thai spouse it should be easy to get a Schengen visa for free either from the relevant embassy in Thailand or even from the relevant embassy in the UK. Infact in theory you can be given such a visa on the border but good luck trying to get on the plane or ferry without visa. Traveling via Dover to Calais might work as you should encounter French immigration on the UK side of the channel which can give a visa on the spot if you manage to proof a legal and genuine marriage, proof of ID of the both of you and that you are traveling together (that last bit should be obvious if you show up at the ferry to Calais...).  However this is not adviced and the EU strongtly suggests to get the proper visa in advance.

 

More info on this:

- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/724180-schengen-visa-faq-when-applying-from-thailand/

 

 

So Europe except for Russia, Turkey (which for the most part is not European and let's not get started about the whole "is it European and should it join the EU" debate... ) is not an option unless you get the visa or are willing and able to show up at the external Schengen border with the proper documents (proof of marriage and ID). 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by Donutz

[Crossy]

 

I've hidden a post with totally incorrect and misleading information.

 

IATA has a handy tool for determining visa requirements, here is the Emirates front-end for it http://www.emirates.com/us/english/plan_book/essential_information/visa_passport_information/find_visa_requirements/find_visa_requirements.aspx

 

 

 

[alant]

Ireland I imagine as it is an open border

[dotpoom]

3 hours ago, Donutz said:

A Thai person with a UK visa will need a visa for most other countries such as Ireland or the Schengen area (which includes the Netherlands, Germany, France, Spain, Poland etc.) . Therefor the post by Stupidfarang is incorrect.  Some countries such as those who are planned to be part of Schengen in the future (Bulgaria for example) do allow access to their country on a Schengen visa, but as far as I know not UK visa's.  Russia is an option, if you consider it European. 

 

If you wish to visit mainland Europe, that is any EU or EEA (European Economic Area) country then the process to get a free visa via an accelerated and simplified procedure applies to  Thai (and other non EU) spouses of EU nationals who visit any other member state except the EU/EEA country that the EU national is a citizen of.  So as a Briton with a Thai spouse it should be easy to get a Schengen visa for free either from the relevant embassy in Thailand or even from the relevant embassy in the UK. Infact in theory you can be given such a visa on the border but good luck trying to get on the plane or ferry without visa. Traveling via Dover to Calais might work as you should encounter French immigration on the UK side of the channel which can give a visa on the spot if you manage to proof a legal and genuine marriage, proof of ID of the both of you and that you are traveling together (that last bit should be obvious if you show up at the ferry to Calais...).  However this is not adviced and the EU strongtly suggests to get the proper visa in advance.

 

More info on this:

- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/724180-schengen-visa-faq-when-applying-from-thailand/

 

 

So Europe except for Russia, Turkey (which for the most part is not European and let's not get started about the whole "is it European and should it join the EU" debate... ) is not an option unless you get the visa or are willing and able to show up at the external Schengen border with the proper documents (proof of marriage and ID). 

 

 

 

I have travelled between Ireland and England dozens of times and never needed any documentation, England and Ireland have a "special arrangement". In fact, just over 20% of the island of Ireland is UK territory (Northern Ireland). You can drive directly from Ireland to the UK without getting out of your car in a fairly short time.

      Word has it that arrangement will remain the same even after Brexit.

Edited September 23, 2016 by dotpoom

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, Donutz said:

 

So Europe except for Russia, Turkey (which for the most part is not European and let's not get started about the whole "is it European and should it join the EU" debate... ) is not an option unless you get the visa or are willing and able to show up at the external Schengen border with the proper documents (proof of marriage and ID). 

 

 

 

An excellent post. On the subject of Russia, it is amusing to see them compete in the Eurovision Song Contest, when part of the country is further East than Thailand.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, dotpoom said:

 

I have travelled between Ireland and England dozens of times and never needed any documentation, England and Ireland have a "special arrangement". In fact, just over 20% of the island of Ireland is UK territory (Northern Ireland). You can drive directly from Ireland to the UK without getting out of your car in a fairly short time.

      Word has it that arrangement will remain the same even after Brexit.

 

The UK, RoI, Isle of Man and Channel Islands do form a common travel area .

 

However non EEA nationals do need the appropriate Irish visa to enter the Republic from the UK.

 

The fact that they are unlikely to be stopped and have their passports checked at the border does not alter the fact that without that visa they would be in the country illegally. Indeed, the Garda and INIS do carry out random checks at border crossings and ports, and anyone caught at one of these without the appropriate visa would be denied entry to the Republic. Even British and Irish citizens are required to produce identity documents proving their nationality if asked and could be denied entry if unable to do so.

 

UKVI seem more lax about this when people are travelling the other way; but even so, entering the UK from the RoI without the appropriate visa still means one will be there illegally.

 

At present, the RoI allows UK visit visa holders to enter the Republic without an Irish visa provided they do so from the UK and the visa is still valid for the duration of their stay in the Republic. This doesn't help the OP, though, as his wife has FLR, not a visit visa.

 

 

[arithai12]

13 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

At present, the RoI allows UK visit visa holders to enter the Republic without an Irish visa provided they do so from the UK and the visa is still valid for the duration of their stay in the Republic. This doesn't help the OP, though, as his wife has FLR, not a visit visa.

 

 

My wife with a Schengen visa and a visa to visit UK was refused to board a plane from Birmingham to Dublin a couple of years back. So maybe you are referring to travel overland?

[terryw]

A couple of years ago my wife and I flew from Liverpool to Belfast International. We then hired a car and drove around the Republic. There are no border checks.

 

Another option in Europe is Gibraltar because it is a UK Overseas territory.

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

My wife with a Schengen visa and a visa to visit UK was refused to board a plane from Birmingham to Dublin a couple of years back. So maybe you are referring to travel overland?

Neither the UK nor the RoI are members of the Schengen area, so a Schengen visa is not valid for entry to either.

 

The Irish Short Stay Visa Waiver Programme commenced on 1st July 2011, so either your wife's experience was before this or her airline were wrong to refuse her carriage.

 

Unless she was transiting to Dublin via Birmingham and had not passed through UK immigration and so not entered the UK.

Quote

In order to avail of the Programme you must have landed and gained lawful entry to the UK on foot of your current UK visa, prior to undertaking the journey to Ireland

 

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, terryw said:

A couple of years ago my wife and I flew from Liverpool to Belfast International. We then hired a car and drove around the Republic. There are no border checks.

 

Another option in Europe is Gibraltar because it is a UK Overseas territory.

 

What are the border requirements between Gib' and Spain like now, if anyone knows, I haven't been there for a long time, back then it was just a drive through.

[terryw]

Major delays. Everything double checked. Post Brexit it is likely to get worse.

[Jip99]

30 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Neither the UK nor the RoI are members of the Schengen area, so a Schengen visa is not valid for entry to either.

 

The Irish Short Stay Visa Waiver Programme commenced on 1st July 2011, so either your wife's experience was before this or her airline were wrong to refuse her carriage.

 

Unless she was transiting to Dublin via Birmingham and had not passed through UK immigration and so not entered the UK.

 

 

 

Took my missus to Dublin in 2015 under the waiver scheme.

 

When I was in the UK earlier this year I considered going again but Thailand seemed to have fallen off the eligible countries list. Now they seem to be back on it.

[jacko45k]

Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

Edited September 23, 2016 by jacko45k

[arithai12]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Neither the UK nor the RoI are members of the Schengen area, so a Schengen visa is not valid for entry to either.

 

The Irish Short Stay Visa Waiver Programme commenced on 1st July 2011, so either your wife's experience was before this or her airline were wrong to refuse her carriage.

 

Unless she was transiting to Dublin via Birmingham and had not passed through UK immigration and so not entered the UK.

 

I wrote that she had a Schengen (that was maybe superfluous) AND a UK visa, where she had been spending 1 week already. So yes, she had already cleared UK immigration. And this happened in 2013 or 14.

The problem was not the Irish immigration, but rather that they refused her boarding at the check-in counter. If you are right, it is really annoying since this caused us a big pain (I was in Dublin waiting for her). It was Ryanair.

 

This shows that EU is indeed a bit of a mess in terms of borders, economic, monetary rules. And apologies for hijacking the OP's thread.

[mrskint]

A couple of years ago my wife and I flew from Liverpool to Belfast International. We then hired a car and drove around the Republic. There are no border checks.

 

Another option in Europe is Gibraltar because it is a UK Overseas territory.

Good point, I'm assuming they check documents at the Gibraltar/Spain border?

[laislica]

1 hour ago, mrskint said:

 

Good point, I'm assuming they check documents at the Gibraltar/Spain border?

 

 

Yes they check as you enter Gib.

My wife has a Thai PP and a Spanish Resident ID, there was no problem for her, and they did stamp her PP.

 

We took a coach trip from Spain to Paris last year and there were no border checks.

But I wonder, with her Spanish ID can we travel to any EU country together?

Her Spanish ID has my Spanish details on the back as well.

[bkk_mike]

If you're travelling together, and you bring your marriage certificate with you, in theory at least you can go anywhere in the EU. (At least until Brexit).

 

Google EU Directive 2004/38/EC

 

You would HAVE to be travelling together though, and have proof that you're family members (hence the marriage certificate).

 

Unless you enjoy arguing with immigration officials for 15-30 minutes when you enter the country though, it is almost certainly better to get the visa (after all the visa is required to be free).

Edited September 23, 2016 by bkk_mike
Add suggestion it's better to get the visa

[laislica]

1 hour ago, bkk_mike said:

If you're travelling together, and you bring your marriage certificate with you, in theory at least you can go anywhere in the EU. (At least until Brexit).

 

Google EU Directive 2004/38/EC

 

You would HAVE to be travelling together though, and have proof that you're family members (hence the marriage certificate).

 

Unless you enjoy arguing with immigration officials for 15-30 minutes when you enter the country though, it is almost certainly better to get the visa (after all the visa is required to be free).

 

Cept for sending the PP to the Embassy etc....
I believe that under the freedom of movement it should be OK as our Centre of  life is Spain.

I'd also take a copy of our deeds too - joint names.

 

[Donutz]

5 hours ago, arithai12 said:

I wrote that she had a Schengen (that was maybe superfluous) AND a UK visa, where she had been spending 1 week already. So yes, she had already cleared UK immigration. And this happened in 2013 or 14.

The problem was not the Irish immigration, but rather that they refused her boarding at the check-in counter. If you are right, it is really annoying since this caused us a big pain (I was in Dublin waiting for her). It was Ryanair.

 

This shows that EU is indeed a bit of a mess in terms of borders, economic, monetary rules. And apologies for hijacking the OP's thread.

Airline checkin staff are not visa/immigration experts. They are known to make errors, especially when it concerns uncommon scenarios. They also tend to be overly cautious, fearing fines if delicering a passenger without proper papers. The IATA database, see Crossy's post, is what they will use as their primairy source if they bother to check at all. A persistant passenger may get them to contact immigration which can be of help if they manage to contact the correct immigration officer.

 

 

1 hour ago, bkk_mike said:

If you're travelling together, and you bring your marriage certificate with you, in theory at least you can go anywhere in the EU. (At least until Brexit).

 

Google EU Directive 2004/38/EC

 

You would HAVE to be travelling together though, and have proof that you're family members (hence the marriage certificate).

 

Unless you enjoy arguing with immigration officials for 15-30 minutes when you enter the country though, it is almost certainly better to get the visa (after all the visa is required to be free).

Laislica's wife being a non EU spouse of a Briton living in Spain should have an article 10 residence card as explained in the directive. That should allow visa free travel  to all EU/EEA countries (including the UK)  if they are together. Not all checkin staff or even immigration officers may be aware so it would still be best to take maritial papers in addition to the article 10 residence card. 

 

And to point out the obvious: this has nothing to do with the OPs situation. Article 10 residence card are different than regular national residence permits, visa's etc. An article 10 residence card will explicitly state that the bearer is a family member of an EU national. Regular residence permits  do not.

[laislica]

9 minutes ago, Donutz said:

Airline checkin staff are not visa/immigration experts. They are known to make errors, especially when it concerns uncommon scenarios. They also tend to be overly cautious, fearing fines if delicering a passenger without proper papers. The IATA database, see Crossy's post, is what they will use as their primairy source if they bother to check at all. A persistant passenger may get them to contact immigration which can be of help if they manage to contact the correct immigration officer.

 

 

Laislica's wife being a non EU spouse of a Briton living in Spain should have an article 10 residence card as explained in the directive. That should allow visa free travel  to all EU/EEA countries (including the UK)  if they are together. Not all checkin staff or even immigration officers may be aware so it would still be best to take maritial papers in addition to the article 10 residence card. 

 

And to point out the obvious: this has nothing to do with the OPs situation. Article 10 residence card are different than regular national residence permits, visa's etc. An article 10 residence card will explicitly state that the bearer is a family member of an EU national. Regular residence permits  do not.

Oops, sorry for the hijack.....

 

My wife's residence card looks like this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residence_card_of_a_family_member_of_a_Union_citizen

except it als has my  name and NIE details on the reverse side with her fingerprint.

So all should be good then.

Cheers

[oldlakey]

13 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

An excellent post. On the subject of Russia, it is amusing to see them compete in the Eurovision Song Contest, when part of the country is further East than Thailand.

Correct but much of it is not, certainly european Russia

[7by7]

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 3:40 PM, arithai12 said:

I wrote that she had a Schengen (that was maybe superfluous) AND a UK visa, where she had been spending 1 week already. So yes, she had already cleared UK immigration. And this happened in 2013 or 14.

The problem was not the Irish immigration, but rather that they refused her boarding at the check-in counter. If you are right, it is really annoying since this caused us a big pain (I was in Dublin waiting for her). It was Ryanair.

 

This shows that EU is indeed a bit of a mess in terms of borders, economic, monetary rules. And apologies for hijacking the OP's thread.

 

It seems from what you say that the fault lied plainly and squarely with Ryanair's check in staff at Birmingham and their ignorance of the Irish Visa waiver Programme and that Thailand is one of the countries covered.

 

Not at all surprising, given Ryanair's reputation!

 

BTW, the Irish Visa Waiver Programme is an independent initiative by the Irish government and  nothing to do with the EU at all! Your wife's situation speaks volumes about Ryanair customer service, but says nothing about the EU.

[bobrussell]

It is all well and good to say it is OK to cross the border into the Irish Republic because there are limited border checks (usually none on land). This does not take away from the fact that it is likely to be illegal to do so and penalties might be significant if detected.

Any illegal entry flagged up on any system (even if the Irish authorities deal with it informally) could have a big impact on future visa applications.

If in doubt, don't do it! Get a visa!

A good immigration history can open doors that a damaged one closes firmly! Countries do communicate widely!

[rasg]

We went to Jersey recently for our honeymoon and took the car on the Ferry. No passports or docs were ever asked for.

 

It's very small but a lovely place. Only 9 miles x 5 miles. Found a couple of very good Thai restaurants and the seafood is sensational.

[7by7]

If a non EEA national holds a valid UK visa or leave to remain then they may enter Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man as a visitor.

 

They must carry photo ID and confirmation of their UK immigration status, so should take their passport if a UK visitor, BRP if a UK resident. The Jersey government even suggest a letter from the Home Office to confirm their UK immigration status!

 

British and Irish citizens also need to carry photo ID.

 

Even though there are no immigration controls between these islands and the UK some sea carriers and, as far as I can ascertain, all air ones will want to see the passenger's passport and may refuse carriage if they don't have one.

Edited September 27, 2016 by 7by7
correction

[7by7]

On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 10:12 AM, 7by7 said:

The Irish Short Stay Visa Waiver Programme commenced on 1st July 2011

 

A very belated update; the scheme is due to end on 31st October 2016, when the British-Irish Visa Scheme is expected to replace it (see here)

 

But at the moment that only covers Chinese and Indian nationals!

 

It also only applies to visitors, not residents.

 

British Irish Visa Scheme from UKVI

 

British Irish Visa Scheme from INIS