My car and Motorcycle will be parked for 6 months. Any preparation needed?

[Nbarch]

It is a good idea to disconnect the battery but as others have pointed out, you may need to re-enter the radio code, so double-check you have it. Some expensive cars the radio is 'married, to the engine management computer, so no problems.

 

Many good suggestions already posted; so let me concentrate on what to do when you finally get back. Recharge the batteries off the car or bike to see if they are still good. Fuel does degrade with age  and my mechanic friend suggested if you left the fuel tanks full to stop condensation in the tank, remove have of it and dilute fuel with fresh fuel; the old fuel add back over time so has not to waste it.

And most importantly change the oil and filters.

 

 

[Generalchaos]

3 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

If you are only removing one cable then it is supposed to be the negative, right?

I'd remove the positive if I removed any, if you remove the negative and something goes amiss, you can ruin your battery and it could still slowly discharge, I'd rather leave it on a trickle charge especially in this heat.

The advice about rats is worth noting, they can chew through virtually anything. If you are worried about tyres perishing put it up on paddock stands.

 

And being Thailand, make sure you take the keys or it will have an unexplained extra 10,000 km on the clock when you get back and the oil will be black as tar, tyres might be punctured, a few scratches that you don't remember making. I bought a good padlock a really heavy chain and chained it to a huge tree. Take the Blue / Green Book with you too!

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, Generalchaos said:

I'd remove the positive if I removed any, i'd rather leave it on a trickle charge especially in this heat.

The advice about rats is worth noting, they can chew through virtually anything. If you are worried about tyres perishing put it up on paddock stands.

 

And being Thailand, make sure you take the keys or it will have an unexplained extra 10,000 km on the clock when you get back and the oil will be black as tar, tyres might be punctured, a few scratches that you don't remember making. I bought a good padlock a really heavy chain and chained it to a huge tree.

 

On a negative ground vehicle why would you remove positive rather than negative? 

[Generalchaos]

Just now, ClutchClark said:

 

On a negative ground vehicle why would you remove positive rather than negative? 

Because if the positive is still connected you can short it out with any fault. If you disconnect the positive there is absolutely zero power to the bike.

The negative is just the completion of the circuit, if the positive is still connected then any ground or negative fault will complete the circuit.

[ClutchClark]

4 minutes ago, Generalchaos said:

If you leave the positive connected you have the potential of a fault to ground / neutral, if you disconnect the positive then the thing is dead. If the live is still connected, any fault to ground will short the battery. Imagine if the rats get in and eat your wiring and you end up with a bare positive cable shorting on the frame? You have a dead short, if you disconnect the positive then there is absolutely no power to the bike at all.

 

Thanks!

 

I am not trying to be argumentative but I would think just the opposite. 

 

If you leave the negstive connected and a positive cable shorts to frame then you have a short. For example, the reason to always disconnect negative battery cable first and re-connect last. If negative battery cable is connected and the positive cable is disconnected and flops over to the frame then you have problems. 

 

On the other hand, if you have positive battery cable connected and remove negative bpcable and it flops over to the frame (ground/earth) their is no issue. 

 

What am I not seeing right?

 

thanks

[SpokaneAl]

I leave a car parked for six months each year in both Thailand and the US in that we split our time between both places.

 

In the US I install a battery trickle charger that is made for long time use. It keeps the battery topped off and only charges when it senses the battery dropping below a certain point. I keep the car covered in a garage.

 

in Thailand a relative starts the car up every few weeks or so. I keep the car in a car port and it is also covered.

 

With today's vehicles and their complicated electronics there is no way I would remove the batteries.

 

in that both cars are Toyotas, I checked with that company and this is what they recommended.

 

Over several years we have experienced zero problems.

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Generalchaos said:

If you leave the positive connected you have the potential of a fault to ground / neutral, if you disconnect the positive then the thing is dead.

 

 

If you leave the positive connected and remove the ground, in a DC system, the electricity literally has NO way to complete any circuit. 

 

If you disconnect the positive, and leave the ground, every metal component on the car is still grounded. Very unsafe. If anything (Metal, wiring from rats getting in there, etc.) goes from battery + to ANY bare metal on the car, you gonna have problems. Blown fuses, relays, possibly ECU if the other electronic safeguards are faulty. 

 

Never just disconnect battery + and leave the entire car grounded. 

 

in the case of storing a car for 6 months, disconnect the battery completely. There are certain parts of a car that still use very low (parasitic draw) amounts of electricity. Parts of the ECU, come dash clocks, etc. 

[Ulic]

I did nothing but put the scooter up on a center kick stand. I came back 18 months later.

Two flat tires and of course the battery was dead. Pushed it 100 meters to the local repair

shop. New battery, change spark plug, filters, oil etc....1300 baht and 2 hours later it was

running like a top. This time when I left I would have disconnected the battery but I could

not open the access panel. So I fluffed up the tires, filled it up with high test ethanol free

gas (as I thought it was the right thing to do, now I see it is controversial. Just wondering

if the gas leaking into the cylinders was with a carbureted bike or a modern fuel injected bike.

Maybe it does not matter) Pulled it up on the center stand and left it. I will be back in

6 months to a year. The bike owes me nothing as I have saved money over renting but I am

sure the guy down the street will be able to get it purring again in no time for a few baht.

[SpokaneAl]

Duplicate post.

[Generalchaos]

7 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Thanks!

 

I am not trying to be argumentative but I would think just the opposite. 

 

If you leave the negstive connected and a positive cable shorts to frame then you have a short. For example, the reason to always disconnect negative battery cable first and re-connect last. If negative battery cable is connected and the positive cable is disconnected and flops over to the frame then you have problems. 

 

On the other hand, if you have positive battery cable connected and remove negative bpcable and it flops over to the frame (ground/earth) their is no issue. 

 

What am I not seeing right?

 

thanks

Different thing, you disconnect the negative first just to isolate things, if you mess with the positive and there is power somewhere (lights on or similar) you can arc the supply destroying alternator diodes etc. Better to remove the negative first, then disconnect the positive pull out the battery and trickle charge it.

[SpokaneAl]

I leave a car parked for six months each year in both Thailand and the US in that we split our time between both places. 

 

In the US I install a battery trickle charger that is made for long time use. It keeps the battery topped off and only charges when it senses the battery dropping below a certain point. I keep the car covered in a garage.

 

in Thailand a relative starts the car up every few weeks or so. I keep the car in a car port and it is also covered.

 

With today's vehicles and their complicated electronics there is no way I would remove the batteries.

 

in that both cars are Toyotas, I checked with that company and this is what they recommended.

 

Over several years we have experienced zero problems.

[SpokaneAl]

I leave a car parked for six months each year in both Thailand and the US in that we split our time between both places. 

 

In the US I install a battery trickle charger that is made for long time use. It keeps the battery topped off and only charges when it senses the battery dropping below a certain point. I keep the car covered in a garage.

 

in Thailand a relative starts the car up every few weeks or so. I keep the car in a car port and it is also covered.

 

With today's vehicles and their complicated electronics there is no way I would remove the batteries.

 

in that both cars are Toyotas, I checked with that company and this is what they recommended.

 

Over several years we have experienced zero problems.

[Generalchaos]

4 hours ago, Don Mega said:

assuming the OP's  bike has a pet cock.

He needs to empty the tank as well as the fuel goes bad! It will run like crap when he gets back, if at all, it will all be gummed up with old rotten gas. Believe me, I left an old
Honda full of old gas for 3 moths, it ruined all the rubber seals, rotted, gummed up all of the jets stuck the floats, and required a lot of work to get it going again. The cylinder bores were pitted from the humidity, rusty, the rings were stuck. It burned a litre of oil firing it up and it would only fire after using crap like carb cleaner or Easy Start!

[swissie]

The main thing is: Park car/motorbike in an enclosed and locked environment. So it will still be there when OP returns.

 

Remember: ............"a fool and his Motorbike shall soon be parted". (Old Thai proverb).

 

Cheers. 

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, Generalchaos said:

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

If you leave the positive connected and remove the ground, in a DC system, the electricity literally has NO way to complete any circuit. 

 

If you disconnect the positive, and leave the ground, every metal component on the car is still grounded. Very unsafe. If anything (Metal, wiring from rats getting in there, etc.) goes from battery + to ANY bare metal on the car, you gonna have problems. Blown fuses, relays, possibly ECU if the other electronic safeguards are faulty. 

 

Never just disconnect battery + and leave the entire car grounded. 

 

in the case of storing a car for 6 months, disconnect the battery completely. There are certain parts of a car that still use very low (parasitic draw) amounts of electricity. Parts of the ECU, come dash clocks, etc. 

What utter rubbish! If the positive is disconnected, then please tell me where the electric comes from..... out of thin air! Utter crap!

In a vehicle DC Electronic system, most of the cars metal components are in effect battery - if you take power from battery + and touch it to anything bare metal under the hood (with the battery connected) it will short. 

 

If you disconnect battery - (from the battery post itself) and leave battery + connected (At the battery post) every bare metal component on the car is now completely unaffected by battery +. Like this, you can take a wire from battery + and touch it anywhere under the hood (Except for the battery - Post itself) and nothing will happen because it can not complete the circuit. 

 

If you have battery + disconnected and battery - connected, and a wire from a rat falls on the battery + post and ANYTHING bare metal, you have a short. 

 

The point is, you are far more likely to cause a short when you leave battery - connected and battery + disconnected because the entire car is grounded. Its far more easy to go from battery + to ANYTHING metal under the hood and cause a short. Almost every metal component in the car is a ground.  

 

39 minutes ago, Generalchaos said:

I'd remove the positive if I removed any, if you remove the negative and something goes amiss, you can ruin your battery and it could still slowly discharge, I'd rather leave it on a trickle charge especially in this heat.

 

If you remove the negative, the entire metal body, and every metal component under the hood becomes dead. Nothing can go amiss. There is no way for the circuit to complete. You are thinking about it wrong. 

 

13 minutes ago, Generalchaos said:

Different thing, you disconnect the negative first just to isolate things, if you mess with the positive and there is power somewhere (lights on or similar) you can arc the supply destroying alternator diodes etc. Better to remove the negative first, then disconnect the positive pull out the battery and trickle charge it.

 

The reason manufacturers recommend disconnecting the battery - first is because it is SAFER. For example if you disconnect battery + and leave battery - connected, then drop your wrench on the battery + post and ANYTHING metal, it will arch and short. In your post above, you don't disconnect negative first just to isolate things, it will cause every circuit on your car to become "open" (disconnected) EVERYTHING is isolated. If you disconnect the negative, your lights will not ever work. 

 

Battery - post on a car simply goes down and bolts to the frame. There are other smaller components that will have their own dedicated ground wire straight from the battery negative, but for the most part Battery - bolts to the frame, then there will usually be a ground strap going from frame to engine block. This is why there are components on the car that have a 1 wire connection. They are case ground through their metal housing connected to the engine or body. 

 

It is a safer, and more effective way to disconnect your battery. Disconnect battery - first, then battery +, and leave the battery completely disconnected. 

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Generalchaos said:

If you leave the positive connected you have the potential of a fault to ground / neutral, if you disconnect the positive then the thing is dead. If the live is still connected, any fault to ground will short the battery. Imagine if the rats get in and eat your wiring and you end up with a bare positive cable shorting on the frame? You have a dead short, if you disconnect the positive then there is absolutely no power to the bike at all.

 

There is no neutral in a DC system. Only ground. If you leave the positive connected, and the ground disconnected, the ONLY way you will have a "Fault to ground" is if it actually touches the battery negative POST itself. 99.999% the only way to have a "fault to ground" is to have battery negative connected. Can not have a fault to ground if there is no ground.

 

You are thinking about it wrong. If the battery negative is disconnected, and the battery positive is connected, and a rat chews through a wire and the wire touches the frame NOTHING will happen because the frame is not grounded anymore because you disconnected the battery negative post. 

 

DC Electricity is not the same as AC. 

[seedy]

Bickering, Duplicate, Flaming posts Removed.

 

To avoid double posts, make your reply, do not expect instant gratification, refresh browser.

 

Continue to use Offensive language will earn you a Posting Holiday

[ClutchClark]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

 

There is no neutral in a DC system. Only ground. If you leave the positive connected, and the ground disconnected, the ONLY way you will have a "Fault to ground" is if it actually touches the battery negative POST itself. 99.999% the only way to have a "fault to ground" is to have battery negative connected. Can not have a fault to ground if there is no ground.

 

You are thinking about it wrong. If the battery negative is disconnected, and the battery positive is connected, and a rat chews through a wire and the wire touches the frame NOTHING will happen because the frame is not grounded anymore because you disconnected the battery negative post. 

 

DC Electricity is not the same as AC. 

 

Thanks.  I thought I was having a senior moment.

[whaleboneman]

4 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Thanks!

 

I am not trying to be argumentative but I would think just the opposite. 

 

If you leave the negstive connected and a positive cable shorts to frame then you have a short. For example, the reason to always disconnect negative battery cable first and re-connect last. If negative battery cable is connected and the positive cable is disconnected and flops over to the frame then you have problems. 

 

On the other hand, if you have positive battery cable connected and remove negative bpcable and it flops over to the frame (ground/earth) their is no issue. 

 

What am I not seeing right?

 

thanks

You are seeing things right. Always remove negative on negative earth dc system. If you don't believe it, look at any auto repair manual. If you find a manual that tells you to disconnect the positive then throw it in the trash. I think some of our British friends are used to positive earth systems from olden days.

And leaving gas tanks full to limit condensation is normal practice. People who believe that a full gas tank will wash lubricant from cylinders and damage an engine are misinformed.

[canthai55]

Fifteen years running, here is what I do. For 2 cars and 6 bikes.

 

Fill tank with 95 gasahol. Add StaBil and Max 44 to keep fuel fresh and prevent phase separation. Pump up tires to 45PSI. Disconnect ground cable.

Return - install battery cable. Start. Drive/Ride. Forget all those old wives tales about gasahol - if your car/bike was made after Dinosaurs roamed the Earth you will have no issues.

[Strange]

1 hour ago, whaleboneman said:

You are seeing things right. Always remove negative on negative earth dc system. If you don't believe it, look at any auto repair manual. If you find a manual that tells you to disconnect the positive then throw it in the trash. I think some of our British friends are used to positive earth systems from olden days.

And leaving gas tanks full to limit condensation is normal practice. People who believe that a full gas tank will wash lubricant from cylinders and damage an engine are misinformed.

 

The main concern with long term storage and fuel is evaporation. When gasoline evaporates, it leaves a dusty orange film that will clog injectors. 6 months and 3/4 tank of benzine I wouldn't worry about it.

Another thing to consider, here in Thailand when you tell them at the pump to "Fill it up" they will CRAM as much fuel into the tank that they can. Ive even seen them go so far as to actually shake the car to get more in. This is a REAL bad idea at any time, but if you are going to store a car with a cram full tank its even worse. Modern cars have an evap system that recycles gas vapor from the fuel tank, and sends it into the engine to be consumed. Its an emissions requirement. If your tank is overfilled, and stored, temperature changes cause pressure in your fuel tank and send gasoline into your evap system causing a whole lot of problems. 

[Strange]

15 hours ago, Seizetheday said:

For 6 months you should probably jack your car up, otherwise your tyres will be flat spotted and ruined.

 

If you disconnect your battery you may have problems with your stereo once you reconnect.

 

With modern radial tires, this isn't a concern unless you are talking years, or you have some low sidewall z rated tires. Bias ply and older, the flat spot was a concern. Not so much nowadays. 6 months no problem. 

[Strange]

15 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Is it recommended to fill up with benzene (without ethanol)?

I always read that fuel with ethanol should not be in the tank for too long.

 

This is correct. Ethanol evaporates at a higher rate than gasoline, and it also carries a higher octane rating. Long term storage with 10% ethanol ( the gasohol here is 10%) can cause your fuel to end up with a lower octane rating if the ethanol evaporates. Can also cause a film in your tank. With a lower octane rating you could end up with an ignition ping/nock. This isn't a good thing if you have a carb, but modern fuel injected cars have knock sensors and can pull timing to compensate. You will get more "time" with benzine without as much of an effect on octane rating. 

[Strange]

10 hours ago, SteveSamui6262 said:

Correction: I agree about draining motorbike carbs before you leave.  I think you can just close the fuel cock and run the engine until it stalls out.

 

Exactly. Another benefit, after it stalls from lack of fuel, crank it over a good few more times to lubricate the cylinder walls with oil, without the presence of gasoline in the cylinder to dilute it. 

[Strange]

For the car, if I wanted to be real diligent, change the oil and filter a couple days before I left. Engine oil is contaminated by gasoline. Put about 3/4 tank straight benzine in it, pull the fuel pump relay, run it until it stalls. Crank it without fuel for a couple seconds. You can find the location for the relay in your owners manual or on the net. Disconnect negative battery terminal, then the positive and leave both disconnected. Clean the car real good. Make a spare set of door & ignition keys and magnetically attach them to the underside of the car and not tell anyone about it. 

 

Scooter, fill with benzine, close petcock or remove fuel pump fuse, run until it stalls, crank a few more times with out fuel. Disconnect battery same way and hide a spare key with your cars spare magnetically. 

[milesinnz]

As someone already stated, 6 months is not a big deal, but I doubt if your batteries will hold a charge for that long... So either invest in two smart trickle chargers (loads on Ebay for not a lot of money), or resign yourself to two flat and now ruined batteries... If you are going to change the oil do it before you lay the vehicles up as you don't want acidic deposits sitting in your oil in the engines sat there for 6 months... but really, unless your vehicles are very expensive and you are really worried about them, I would not worry. Petrol, well 6 months it's starting to get a bit on the long side as modern petrol is not as good as the old stuff... I would be tempted to drain all the petrol out of the motorcycle, including the little drain found on most carburettors. otherwise you might have a real pain to start it when you come back, but at the 6 month time, it is probably not a big issue, more than a year, definitely drain the motorcycle. You can't really do that with a car, but they are usually easier to start. Filling the cars tank, that is 6 of one and half dozen of the other.. at 6 months, you could fill it.. but more than a year, if the petrol goes "stale" then you have a lot of petrol to eat through (assuming the car runs) before you get to any new stuff. If you keep petrol in a car for one year, chances are it will start but run badly... hence the need to put fresh petrol in..

[rapom]

5 hours ago, Strange said:

 

There is no neutral in a DC system. Only ground. If you leave the positive connected, and the ground disconnected, the ONLY way you will have a "Fault to ground" is if it actually touches the battery negative POST itself. 99.999% the only way to have a "fault to ground" is to have battery negative connected. Can not have a fault to ground if there is no ground.

 

You are thinking about it wrong. If the battery negative is disconnected, and the battery positive is connected, and a rat chews through a wire and the wire touches the frame NOTHING will happen because the frame is not grounded anymore because you disconnected the battery negative post. 

 

DC Electricity is not the same as AC. 

 

 

And if only the positive cable is removed and a rat chews thru a wire, nothing will happen either. Electrical current always flows to ground and disconnecting either cable from a battery post breaks the circuit. With the ignition switch off, there are very few wires that are hot and most of them on a fused circuit. On newer vehicles, I would not disconnect the battery for storage and would instead connect a float charger to maintain voltage level. There are some items that require a very small amount of voltage to maintain their memory and you will have to reprogram if you disconnect.   

[Strange]

9 minutes ago, rapom said:

And if only the positive cable is removed and a rat chews thru a wire, nothing will happen either. Electrical current always flows to ground and disconnecting either cable from a battery post breaks the circuit. With the ignition switch off, there are very few wires that are hot and most of them on a fused circuit. On newer vehicles, I would not disconnect the battery for storage and would instead connect a float charger to maintain voltage level. There are some items that require a very small amount of voltage to maintain their memory and you will have to reprogram if you disconnect.   

 

Yep in the rat situation thats right. however, the point is, with the positive disconnected, and the negative connected, a short from battery positive (on the battery post itself) to ground is far more likely due to the whole car being a metal ground. If the rat got a hold of a piece of wire and it fell on the battery positive post and the body - short, on the battery positive to battery negative - short. With negative disconnected, the only way to short is to go directly to battery negative post on the battery. The chance of a short is lower with negative disconnected, and therefore safer. 

 

And the main power wires on a car are always hot regardless of the ignition. They are controlled via smaller relays or solenoids, witch are controlled by the ignition switch. 

 

If you have a trickle charger, of course thats better, but a lot don't, and on most modern cars, you can not just leave them with the battery connected or you will for sure have a dead battery. There is a slight parasitic draw that the car uses even with the ignition off. 

 

Of course if you disconnect the battery, you will have to reprogram your radio, clocks, seat preferences etc. kinda figured that would be obvious. End of the day, never seen a car that had to be reprogrammed to run after a battery swap. And the manufacturers user manual will tell you what to do. Newer ECU's will lose some of their "preferences" and go back to baseline (driver will likely not even notice) but after 2-3 hot/cold cycles they re-learn and the temperature/sea level/humidity/etc in thailand are even better. Not much for the ECU to learn. 

[mettech]

The fact is this is Thailand and a good hot temp during day time and perhaps night too so I was just thinking what do car dealership do with their park cars on the lot??? they keep them locked up and want to sell them nothing else.

What I always do with battery on car with computer module I do disconnect the Positive so the back up battery into the ecu has not find out about cable being disconnected. I do not loose anything when i do reconnect the battery and it start right away.

Little creature will always find a way in and if lucky nothing happened.

Good luck.

 

[ClutchClark]

Heat is bad for batteries so if you can remove from vehicle and store in a cool place your battery will likely last longer.