Syria: Assad forces tighten grip on Aleppo

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Christians are also pilots in the Syrian Air Force, but are limited in rank advancement, same as with the Egyptian Air Force. There have been  defections from the Syrian Air Force, though I would assume they would have been very careful to ensure their loved one's departure from Syria. Syrian Air Force Intelligence has been identified as the most cruel in their use of torture.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_defectors

These are sick individuals.  Torture and kill innocent men, women and children.  I hope when this is over, they pay the price.  Guaranteed Assad will.  Putin won't protect him forever.

[pkspeaker]

There have been many defections since the war started and even before the war.  But I can't remember anything in the news where a syrian pilot abandoned his mission in mid-air and instead landed in Jordan or Turkey or elsewhere.  I'm impressed with that, considering Syria is a poor country in the midst of a terrible war and we all know that Assad's enemies-Turkey, the gulf states, the US etc. will reward anyone who defects because the political leverage that defections give them.  These higher level bureucrats that defected- you can bet are living a comfortable existence in some european country.

I read that since the war began, appox 500 Syrian airforce personell have died, including some that were on an airbase that was over-run, so it's not an easy life being paid pennies to be in Syria's military.  

 

..and it's easy to say 'these are sick individuals that kill innocent men, women, and children.   Every country and military in the ME have had these problems, the issue comes up every week.. the rebels in Syria have committed war crimes, like that time they chopped off a 12 year old street vendors head because he wouldn't give them free coffee, and those rebels were NOT ISIS, it was some other 'not bad' syrian rebel group.

Edited September 26, 2016 by pkspeaker

[Thorgal]

 

You should check out why the US led coalition forces bombed last week Assads Syrian army in Deir-ez-Zour.

Please, do not reply by telling us that it was a mistake...


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[pkspeaker]

I don't think the US, Russian, or even the Syrian military have a policy of killing non-combatants.  Sometimes they make mistakes and sometimes some of their personell get frustrated or are criminal and kill non-combatents on purpose.  Often the rebels fire from built up area's so the Syrian military drops dumb-bombs in the general area and then they kill non-combatents, men, women and children.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

You should check out why the US led coalition forces bombed last week Assads Syrian army in Deir-ez-Zour.

Please, do not reply by telling us that it was a mistake...

Sorry, but that's how it's being reported.  By many news agencies.  It's war, mistakes happen.  Sadly.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/syria-air-strike-160918013808787.html

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

8 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

If you are talking about those in Gitmo, you are aware of how they were caught and what they were doing?  And what they did to our soldiers that were caught?  No lawyers either.

You don't know either because it is all a secret.

[craigt3365]

Just now, FritsSikkink said:

You don't know either because it is all a secret.

Actually, it's not a secret.  Names and some details are available on the internet.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, pkspeaker said:

There have been many defections since the war started and even before the war.  But I can't remember anything in the news where a syrian pilot abandoned his mission in mid-air and instead landed in Jordan or Turkey or elsewhere.  I'm impressed with that, considering Syria is a poor country in the midst of a terrible war and we all know that Assad's enemies-Turkey, the gulf states, the US etc. will reward anyone who defects because the political leverage that defections give them.  These higher level bureucrats that defected- you can bet are living a comfortable existence in some european country.

I read that since the war began, appox 500 Syrian airforce personell have died, including some that were on an airbase that was over-run, so it's not an easy life being paid pennies to be in Syria's military.  

 

..and it's easy to say 'these are sick individuals that kill innocent men, women, and children.   Every country and military in the ME have had these problems, the issue comes up every week.. the rebels in Syria have committed war crimes, like that time they chopped off a 12 year old street vendors head because he wouldn't give them free coffee, and those rebels were NOT ISIS, it was some other 'not bad' syrian rebel group.

 

I would guess that pilots don't defect as the consequences for their families would be truly awful, though of course the vast majority will supporters of the dictatorship. It would be an interesting interview of how a pilot justifies releasing barrel bombs from helicopters that kill and maim countless civilians.

 

[pkspeaker]

It would be a guess because I have not seen any credible evidence that that is definitely the case.  Are their families being watched all the time?  Considering there are zones all over the country where the regime has lost control-couldn't their immediate families escape into one of the many refugee camps in Jordan or elsewhere, it's uncertain if this tactic of terrorizing the family is happening.

 

I remember reading this article a few years ago where they interviewed a Syrian that was involved in rebel propaghanda, he was running a newsletter out of his families home in Syria; when the Syrian authorities discovered what he was doing, he said they cut his retired father's pension and it caused hardship to the family since that was their only source of income during the war..  I remember thinking 'Is that all they did?  Wouldn't they come in and chop everyone's head off or drop a barrell bomb on the house?'

 

There was a Syrian family here in bangkok (they acheived refugee status here and recently got asylum in New Zealand, and one of my friends invited him to speak to his High School classes, he had also spoke at the fcct once and there was an article about them in the BKK Post, his name was Tamin.  I stopped by my friends classroom to hear him speak and tell what happened and after his talk he took questions.  He said.. his family was well off before the war started, they were originally palestinian refugees, he owned several houses and several cars and employed maids and drivers.  When the war started the area of damascus where they lived became intolerable, fighting, bombing, he would have to cover his kids eyes because of the dead bodies laying around and snipers.. he finally decided to go from embassey to embassey to see if he could get a visa out, they all said no but by chance the Thai embassy said yes, sounded like the staff their felt sympathy.  He said they were allowed to leave but he could not take the appox $200,000us he had in a syrian bank with him, since the war started the rule was they could only withdraw money in small amounts everyweek just enough to live on (govt feared...)  so out here they were destitute. 

 

When he took questions I asked about the Assad regime.. he didn't have that much bad to say about it, he said something like "I do not support the Syrian revolution because I think it is a {foreign backed} .....", he basically blamed the US and gulf states for it.

 

I asked specifically about what we hear in the media, secret police, torture, imprisonment or disappearence w/o charge..  Nothing really, according to him that was not part of the average syrian's life, he didn't now anyone that had been abducted and tortured by the regime, before or after the war started..

 

so.. IMO the Syrian regime is not the North Korean Regime and its not even the saddam hussain regime.. its more like Iran's or Russia's.. from what I gather..

Edited September 26, 2016 by pkspeaker

[Chicog]

3 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

He IS of a minority religion, but the political party he represents is the BAATHEST party.  This is in fact a pan-arab nationalist party, it goes back to the 60's the hey-day or arab nationalism.  NONE of the Baathest political ideology declares shia-islam or allowite islam or sunni islam as the 'official state religion', it only recognizes that SYria is a predominantly muslim country.  Their constitution at least in theory is supposed to be fair, true as in the USA, in practace there is 'privilege' in any society.  You can't have it both ways!  The USA is a secular country-true, but in fact the congress in WDC is highly influenced by religious jewish and christian zionists.  So by your standard the USA is just like Iran or Israel- a country with an official state religion.  It's true that Assad's inner security circle and the republican guards are of his allowite sect, BUT for example nearly ALL of Syria's air force pilots are Sunni's AND what most impressive is there HASN'T BEEN 1 DEFECTION!  With all those Sunni's launching airstrikes everyday-they can land in turkey and defect anytime-never happened! and the regime is supported by many Sunni's that fight other sunnis who are trying to overthrow him.  If he didn't have the support of a significant portion of the sunni population + minorities like christians(the CHRISTIANS in Syria support Assad) the he would have lost power by now. The elder Assad did not rise to power because he was from the odd 'allowite' sect, he rose to power by out maneuvering his rivals to become the autocrat in chief, and he did this politically by extolling the virtues of pan arab nationalism.

 

This is all a bit bizarre. Assad has nothing to do with the Baath Party other than that his Dad took it over and then screwed it over. It's a name only.

In fact when Hafedh took over, the Constitution stated that the President could only be Sunni. Of course he soon took care of that.

 

To say there haven't been defections from the military is patently absurd. There have been plenty, in fact much of the FSA was ex military.

 

Yes there may be tribal, financial or even survival reasons for Sunni to support Assad, but the majority of them, and by dint the majority of the population, would like to see Assad and his cronies hung from the nearest tree.

 

Hafedh's rule was dictatorial, authoritarian and secular.  And Brutal.

It culminated in the Hama massacre.

 

His son has attempted to do the same, but unfortunately the Internet age means far more of the population knew of his cruelty, and far more opposed to it.

The fact that he never did the decent thing like Ben Ali, and buggered off, is the key reason this conflict has continued and expanded.

Russia's backing of him is the second.

 

It could all have been over in a matter of weeks, with minimal bloodshed.

That is the tragedy for me, that these leaders are so desperate to cling on to power or money, they don't care how many they kill.

 

 

P.S. Yes, the rise of IS is also tied to Iraq, but let's keep the conversation focused on Assad's role please.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

On 9/25/2016 at 10:56 AM, craigt3365 said:

One man's rebel is another's freedom fighter.  Sad you don't care.  That's the big problem in the world today.

 

These are just ordinary citizens fighting a corrupt and brutal dictator who has massacred thousands of innocent civilians.  With the support of Russia.

 

That's a bit of a romantic view.

 

A lot of those opposing Assad are not "ordinary citizens". Former Syrian soldiers, foreign fighters (reportedly, more linked to Islamic organizations), special forces from at least half a dozen countries, the Kurdish militias and more.

 

[Morch]

On 9/25/2016 at 3:48 PM, Thorgal said:

 

It's not a civil war. Too many foreign mercenaries involved in the IS franchise, or what some still call the moderate rebels.

There's no a single word here of the many warnings before bombing to the civil population who support the 'moderated rebels'.

The Syrian conflict started in fact far from Damascus.

Russia has a pact with Iran and Syria, similar to the NATO.


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There is also not a single support provided here, other than your word, that this is so.

 

 

3 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

You should check out why the US led coalition forces bombed last week Assads Syrian army in Deir-ez-Zour.

Please, do not reply by telling us that it was a mistake...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

You should cease attempting to sound enigmatic and provide a reference.

 

[Chicog]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That's a bit of a romantic view.

 

A lot of those opposing Assad are not "ordinary citizens". Former Syrian soldiers, foreign fighters (reportedly, more linked to Islamic organizations), special forces from at least half a dozen countries, the Kurdish militias and more.

 

 

Yes it is a bit of a mess now, but initially it was an oppressed majority trying to oust a dictator.

 

As I said, if Russia had allowed it to be dealt with earlier, Assad would probably be slumming it in a nice Teheran compound by now.

[Morch]

On 9/25/2016 at 5:26 PM, craigt3365 said:

You should do some research on how much oil and gas the US produces and how much they got from Iraq.  It will be educational for you.  This has nothing to do with energy.  And everything to do with human rights and the global economy.

 

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Have to differ with you on this post. The US would consider energy resources from the region in it's national interest as the energy products fuel the economies of many US global supply chain trade partners.

 

Plus, even if discounting direct economic profit, doubt that the US is averse to having a gas pipe hurting Russia some.

[Morch]

On 9/25/2016 at 6:20 PM, pkspeaker said:

The Assad regime is not alone when it comes to collateral damage and human rights abuses.  the Assad regime is secular, the 'moderate' rebels that the US supports are NOT secular, they are SUNNI islamic fighters, their agenda is to make Syria NOT secular and that the country's political landscape will be dominated by sunni islam.  beter the assad regime than religious fanatics.

 

The Assad regime gave women rights and protected minorities including christians and even jews.  It was the elder Assad that protected the jewish community in syria and would not allow them to be scape goated because of what israel does.   

 

Jews were prohibited from emigrating. This did not change until 1991, due to US pressure. A couple of years later, the Jewish community in Syria was but a few hundred strong. Guess they saw things differently.

[pkspeaker]

better prohibited from leaving then forced expulsion.. palestinians wish they had been prohibited from leaving ..

[JHolmesJr]

On 25 September, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Pakboong said:

Russia has been an ally of Syria for quite some time. What is the US doing there? They are not a Syrian Ally and have not been invited.

 

LOL…when has that ever stopped them?

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

That's a bit of a romantic view.

 

A lot of those opposing Assad are not "ordinary citizens". Former Syrian soldiers, foreign fighters (reportedly, more linked to Islamic organizations), special forces from at least half a dozen countries, the Kurdish militias and more.

 

You are absolutely correct!  It's a mess.

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

better prohibited from leaving then forced expulsion.. palestinians wish they had been prohibited from leaving ..

 

Guess you missed the part about almost all taking off the minute it was possible. Prior to that, there were thousands who tried to escape Syria by illegal means. Many died. The inevitable Palestinian anecdote is, of course, off topic.