Jewish settlement soccer clubs bring politics to the pitch

[webfact]

Jewish settlement soccer clubs bring politics to the pitch

By TIA GOLDENBERG

 

GIVAT ZEEV, West Bank (AP) — The Beitar Shabi Givat Zeev players huddled around for a training session, lobbing soccer balls as an autumn evening breeze swept through the surrounding rocky hills. It was a routine scene played out on soccer fields around the world, but if Palestinian authorities have their way, the team could soon find itself permanently sidelined.

 

Givat Zeev and other clubs based in Israeli West Bank settlements are at the center of a showdown between Israelis and Palestinians that is set to draw soccer's global governing body FIFA into a tense dispute over Mideast politics. The Palestinians are pushing FIFA to declare the teams illegal at a meeting in Switzerland next month.

 

"All the Israeli activities in the occupied Palestinian territories are illegal, including sports," said Jibril Rajoub, the head of the Palestinian Football Association. "We are demanding that FIFA take a clear position and protect our sovereignty on our land."

 

The Palestinians want the West Bank as part of their future state, along with the Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem. The international community overwhelmingly opposes the settlements as illegal or illegitimate obstacles to peace.

 

The Palestinians have for years made a series of soccer-related complaints against Israel over travel delays for Palestinian players caused by Israeli security restrictions. Rajoub last year led an unsuccessful drive to have Israel suspended from FIFA over various issues, including the settlement clubs.

 

Next month, a monitoring committee will present its recommendations over the teams at a FIFA meeting in Zurich. The Palestinians hope the organization will take a tough stance against the settlements and their soccer clubs.

 

The Palestinians say the Israel Football Association is breaking FIFA rules that bar a member association from holding games on another member's territory without permission. They are basing their claim on a 2012 U.N. General Assembly vote that gave Palestine non-member state status at the United Nations and recognized the West Bank as Palestinian land.

 

Israel has rejected the Palestinian campaign as an attempt to politicize sports and has cited security concerns as the reason behind the occasional restrictions placed on Palestinian players, particularly in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

 

Following the suspension attempt, both sides agreed to a compromise that included international monitoring on Israel's actions toward Palestinian soccer players and more scrutiny for the settlement clubs.

 

With the Oct. 13 FIFA meeting approaching, a FIFA spokesperson said there had been "marked progress" regarding security-related delays but that the question of settlement clubs was still under discussion.

 

Shlomi Barzel, spokesman for the Israel Football Association, said the Israeli and Palestinian soccer associations operate according to interim peace accords from the 1990s that divided the West Bank into areas controlled by Israel, including the settlements, and the Palestinian Authority. He said it wasn't up to FIFA to determine what territory belongs to whom.

 

"With all due respect, FIFA is not the United Nations," he said.

 

He said banning the settlement clubs, which are made up of amateur adult and youth teams, would largely affect children and that while holding the games in Israel proper was possible in theory, doing so could have far-reaching political implications.

 

Ahead of the FIFA meeting, Human Rights Watch released a report Monday accusing the international soccer federation of sponsoring matches on land illegally taken from Palestinians. The group is demanding that FIFA require the Israel Football Association to move all games played in the settlements to within Israel proper.

 

"By holding games on stolen land, FIFA is tarnishing the beautiful game of football," said Sari Bashi, Israel and Palestine country director at Human Rights Watch. "FIFA should step up now to give settlement clubs a red card and insist the Israel Football Association play by the rules."

 

The report says the settlement games perpetuate a dire situation in the West Bank. They help the settlements' economy and highlight the deep physical divisions between Israelis and Palestinians. Palestinians are not allowed in settlements without a permit and cannot attend games there.

 

Using geographic information system technology and maps obtained by the Israeli anti-occupation group Kerem Navot, the report said that two fields used by the settlement clubs have been built on privately owned Palestinian land. Two other fields appear to have been cultivated before being seized by Israel, an indication that they too may be located on private land.

 

Among the fields is the Givat Zeev pitch, which the report says was built on land "taken without permission and rendered off-limits to its owners" after Israel built the settlement.

 

High-rises from the nearby Palestinian city of Ramallah poke over a ridge surrounding the soccer field, where an adult team, clad in fluorescent cleats and blue uniforms adorned with a menorah, trained ahead of their first game of the season. Earlier, a team of 10-year-olds scurried around the field.

 

Gabi Perez, the club's founder, said soccer provides dozens of local children with an opportunity to have fun, teaches them discipline and teamwork and keeps them away from mischief.

 

"Let's say FIFA shuts us down, what will (Rajoub) have achieved?" Perez said. "Let us educate the children, so they don't end up on the street."

 

Perez said he was unaware of the land ownership claim by Salah al-Din al-Qurt, a 67-year-old Palestinian who says the Israeli military confiscated his property in the 1970s, when Givat Zeev was built. Years later, he found out a soccer field stretches over the land he used to cultivate.

 

"This is oppression in its ugliest state: others enjoy your place and you struggle to live," said al-Qurt. "Settlers should be banned from enjoying the properties they stole."

___

Associated Press writer Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, West Bank contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-09-26

[Ulysses G.]

Reduced to harrassing an amateur soccer team about politics. Pitiful.

 

[PremiumLane]

24 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Reduced to harrassing an amateur soccer team about politics. Pitiful.

 

 

Pitiful? These 'settlers' have illegally stolen the land, engage in harassment and killing of local Palestinians, all backed up by one of the most powerful militaries in the World.  And you think they should be 'nice' and support their local football team

[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

Pitiful? These 'settlers' have illegally stolen the land, engage in harassment and killing of local Palestinians, all backed up by one of the most powerful militaries in the world.

 

That is some football team. 

[coma]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

He said banning the settlement clubs, which are made up of amateur adult and youth teams, would largely affect children and that while holding the games in Israel proper was possible in theory, doing so could have far-reaching political implications.

 

Now why would that be so ???

[yardrunner]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Reduced to harrassing an amateur soccer team about politics. Pitiful.

 

no reduced to using any means against an illegal occupation of another countries territory by an Israeli government which behaves like a fascist government and ignores international law 

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

 

Pitiful? These 'settlers' have illegally stolen the land, engage in harassment and killing of local Palestinians, all backed up by one of the most powerful militaries in the World.  And you think they should be 'nice' and support their local football team

 

Long before you came to TVF they were several posters who championed the Palestinians

cause, a cause of death destruction, mayhem and fighting a lost battle for something

they don't entailed to and never owed legally,

those poster have all but disappeared together with their hate and fear mongering....

No such thing as Palestinians, they're all people who came from far away country by other

invaders to work and serve as servants, the name Palestine was coined by the Romans, 2,000

years ago, nothing to do with the people who call themselves Palestinians now....

[ezzra]

4 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

no reduced to using any means against an illegal occupation of another countries territory by an Israeli government which behaves like a fascist government and ignores international law 

 

What ever country you hailed from buddy, I'm sure that they also build their

borders on land taken from others by means of legal ownership or by force,

so please don't talk about the farce that it " international laws "....

[Ulysses G.]

There IS no other country. The Palestinians refused the UN offer in 1947 and Hamas refuse to recognize Israel now. There will be no other country until they sign a peace treaty.

[Elfin]

This will help further expose to the world the oppressive nature of the Israeli regime. I hope FIFA recognises that these teams are playing on stolen land and should be made to play their games inside Israel itself or have the teams disbanded.

I remember the fate of 2 Palestinian soccer team members who were deliberately shot in their feet by the IDF, once they realised that the 2 were soccer players. From the OP " Following the suspension attempt, both sides agreed to a compromise that included international monitoring on Israel's actions toward Palestinian soccer players and more scrutiny for the settlement clubs. " Israel deserves to be red carded over this!

BDS

[Tallagada]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

 

Long before you came to TVF they were several posters who championed the Palestinians

cause, a cause of death destruction, mayhem and fighting a lost battle for something

they don't entailed to and never owed legally,

those poster have all but disappeared together with their hate and fear mongering....

No such thing as Palestinians, they're all people who came from far away country by other

invaders to work and serve as servants, the name Palestine was coined by the Romans, 2,000

years ago, nothing to do with the people who call themselves Palestinians now....

What you say sir is utterly crap and completly untrue.

You know that we can rewind further and say all the land belongs to African.

Justifying the illegal settlements and land stealing with wars from the past centuries is also competly crap.

I bet you re a pro Israeli with this kind of discussion :
The truth is : Israel is a bully country whom citizen turn from "victims" to bully, they steal land against all the UN resolution and give the international community the fingers daily.

Most countries in the world recognize Palestine as a state, only few but powerfully lobbied countries do not.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Tallagada

[7by7]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

<snip>

No such thing as Palestinians, they're all people who came from far away country by other

invaders to work and serve as servants, the name Palestine was coined by the Romans, 2,000

years ago, nothing to do with the people who call themselves Palestinians now....

As you say, Palestine has existed, first as a Roman province then a Byzantine one then an Ottoman one then a British mandate, for over 2000 years.  It is only immigration since the creation of Israel which has made the Jewish population the majority.

 

From Latest Population Statistics for Israel (May 2016)

 

Quote

Immigration & Naturalization

 

Israel welcomed approximately 36,000 new immigrants between Independence Day 2015 and 2016, with most immigrants arriving in Israel from France (25%), the Ukraine (24%), Russia (23%), and the United States (9%). 

In 2014, 75% of the total Jewish population were "Sabras" - born in Israel - compared with just a 35% native-born population at Israel's independence in 1948. 38.6% of the Jewish population are Israeli-born to at least one parent who was also Israeli-born

Israel needs somewhere to put all these immigrants, so steals land from the Palestinians!

 

Palestinians kicked out of Israel in 1948 have died of old age in refugee camps without any hope of ever being able to return home. Their children and grandchildren born in those camps will probably never be able to return to their ancestral homes, but hopefully one day will at least have a country to call their own.

 

It is sad that children's football teams have been caught up in this; but at least the children in those teams have a homeland.

[pkspeaker]

Here is something israeli's and palestinians can unite on-they both suck at sports.

[Morch]

There was a topic dealing with the original Palestinian move, about a year back or so. The current revival is related to the resulting committee set to present its conclusions (mid October, I believe). It is also used to bolster Rajoub's position and relevancy with regard to Palestinian politics in general, and the succession struggle for the day after Abbas quits.

 

The Palestinians are legally in the right, and applying FIFA's rules would mean Israel will need to make changes with regard to these teams or face consequences. These might or might not include suspension of membership. As I understand it, FIFA was reluctant to assume a UN-like role, and at the same time opposed a Palestinian wish to have the UN mediate (probably seen as an unwelcome precedent and stepping on their turf).

 

As pointed out in this topic, even if the Israelis will be forced to make certain changes, the actual benefits for Palestinians and for the Palestinian cause are meager. If, by some chance, things will culminate with Israel's suspension from FIFA, it would be more of political victory, but may prove an own goal with regard to Palestinian soccer (Israel having no motivation to change conditions).

 

Like many of the topics and headlines relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, its basically a storm in a tea cup.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As you say, Palestine has existed, first as a Roman province then a Byzantine one then an Ottoman one then a British mandate, for over 2000 years.  It is only immigration since the creation of Israel which has made the Jewish population the majority.

 

From Latest Population Statistics for Israel (May 2016)

 

Israel needs somewhere to put all these immigrants, so steals land from the Palestinians!

 

Palestinians kicked out of Israel in 1948 have died of old age in refugee camps without any hope of ever being able to return home. Their children and grandchildren born in those camps will probably never be able to return to their ancestral homes, but hopefully one day will at least have a country to call their own.

 

It is sad that children's football teams have been caught up in this; but at least the children in those teams have a homeland.

 

Not that the topic is about ancient history, but before the Greco Roman Palestine (which the current Palestinians do not really identify with), it was populated by Jews. Doubtless, even this comment will result in the usual pseudo-historical and genetic expert opinions from various posters.

 

Quote

Israel needs somewhere to put all these immigrants, so steals land from the Palestinians!

 

Again, not really on topic, but as usual, incorrect. Israel does not "put" immigrants in the West Bank. The vast majority of immigrants to Israel do not reside in the West Bank. Another off the cuff nonsense.

 

The Palestinians are, at least in part, accountable and responsible for their predicament. There were enough junctions in history which would have allowed them to cut their losses and perhaps carve themselves a better future. Perpetuating the refugee status of many Palestinians is not solely Israel's doing. Then there is an about equal number of Jews displaced from Arab and Muslim countries, also denied return and losing their material possessions. Again, not really on topic, but guess any headline will result in the usual bashing.

 

I have no issues with Israel having to shut down those soccer teams, move their matches somewhere else or whatever else is required. Israeli kids aren't more privileged than Palestinian kids, and as happens in real life, they will sometime need to carry the burden of their elder's decisions. Cuts both ways.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Elfin said:

This will help further expose to the world the oppressive nature of the Israeli regime. I hope FIFA recognises that these teams are playing on stolen land and should be made to play their games inside Israel itself or have the teams disbanded.

I remember the fate of 2 Palestinian soccer team members who were deliberately shot in their feet by the IDF, once they realised that the 2 were soccer players. From the OP " Following the suspension attempt, both sides agreed to a compromise that included international monitoring on Israel's actions toward Palestinian soccer players and more scrutiny for the settlement clubs. " Israel deserves to be red carded over this!

BDS

 

"I remember the fate of 2 Palestinian soccer team members who were deliberately shot in their feet by the IDF, once they realised that the 2 were soccer players."

 

Could you kindly provide anything more concrete on this?

Edited September 26, 2016 by Morch

[Elfin]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

"I remember the fate of 2 Palestinian soccer team members who were deliberately shot in their feet by the IDF, once they realised that the 2 were soccer players."

 

Could you kindly provide anything more concrete on this?

"The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers were reportedly shot in the feet at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.

The two teenagers, Jawhar Nasser Jawhar, 19, and Adam Abd al-Raouf Halabiya, 17, were walking home from a training session in the Faisal al-Husseini Stadium in al-Ram in the central West Bank when Israeli forces allegedly opened fire without warning, according to Al Jazeera

Jawhar received 10 gunshots to his feet, seven in his left foot and three in his right, while Halabiya received one shot to each foot, according to medical reports.

Police dogs were then released on the pair and Israeli soldiers beat them before being taken to Ramallah governmental hospital and then transferred to King Hussein Medical Center in Amman. It will take months to assess whether the pair can ever walk again."

 

This was taken from Jack Moore in the International Business Times, March 6 2014, Morch.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, Elfin said:

"The calls for Israel to be removed from the global footballing body Fifa have grown louder after two Palestinian footballers were reportedly shot in the feet at an Israeli checkpoint, preventing them from ever playing football again.

The two teenagers, Jawhar Nasser Jawhar, 19, and Adam Abd al-Raouf Halabiya, 17, were walking home from a training session in the Faisal al-Husseini Stadium in al-Ram in the central West Bank when Israeli forces allegedly opened fire without warning, according to Al Jazeera

Jawhar received 10 gunshots to his feet, seven in his left foot and three in his right, while Halabiya received one shot to each foot, according to medical reports.

Police dogs were then released on the pair and Israeli soldiers beat them before being taken to Ramallah governmental hospital and then transferred to King Hussein Medical Center in Amman. It will take months to assess whether the pair can ever walk again."

 

This was taken from Jack Moore in the International Business Times, March 6 2014, Morch.

 

Thanks for the link, but no cigar.

Even the version above does not support the claim made earlier that they were "deliberately shot in their feet by the IDF, once they realised that the 2 were soccer players". That's just a bit of fiction added in to spice things up.

 

A quick search will reveal that there are at a few versions of what happened. The one presented is one of two originally appeared in Ma'an, and then copy pasted all over. Here's a somewhat different version (note that the author, while Israeli, is most times pretty much on board with your own views) - http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.572103

 

There are some obvious discrepancies - where the received initial medical treatment, their actions and whereabouts (Abu Dis is not exactly near al-Ram stadium). I could go into greater detail, but that would probably be way off topic. Here are two links providing more, for those interested (disclaimer: both websites are pro-Israeli, and I do not usually take to linking them, nor accept all of their views) - http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=55&x_article=2682  & http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-lies-about-palestinian-footballers.html#.u0t191dyow5

 

 

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

I was pretty sure that claim would turn out to be a false one.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

I was pretty sure that claim would turn out to be a false one.

 

It is not completely false. They were shot. The circumstances are not 100% clear. The false part applies for the "deliberate" bit.

[Ulysses G.]

Just now, Morch said:

 

It is not completely false. They were shot. The circumstances are not 100% clear. The false part applies for the "deliberate" bit.

 

That was what I was questioning.

[Ulysses G.]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As you say, Palestine has existed, first as a Roman province then a Byzantine one then an Ottoman one then a British mandate, for over 2000 years.  It is only immigration since the creation of Israel which has made the Jewish population the majority.

 

 

You seem to be ignoring the Jewish Kingdoms in the distant past.

[Johpa]

 

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As you say, Palestine has existed, first as a Roman province then a Byzantine one then an Ottoman one then a British mandate, for over 2000 years.  It is only immigration since the creation of Israel which has made the Jewish population the majority.

 

 

Appeals made from both sides to long ago historical political entities serve no purpose.  And of course immigration, being one of the great historical tidal forces, has changed the demographics in the Levant just as it has changed the demographics on a planetary scale.

[Tallagada]

13 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You seem to be ignoring the Jewish Kingdoms in the distant past.

ANd before the" Jewish Kingdom"? we have to go back further...

[Ulysses G.]

"And before the Jewish Kingdom "

 

Sorry, the Philistines and Assyrians died out thousands of years ago. 

[7by7]

19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Not that the topic is about ancient history, but before the Greco Roman Palestine (which the current Palestinians do not really identify with), it was populated by Jews. Doubtless, even this comment will result in the usual pseudo-historical and genetic expert opinions from various posters.

 Totally by Jews, or mainly? Also, who lived there before Moses and Joshua arrived from Egypt and conquered it; who did they take the land from? Other Jews, or Gentiles?

 

Yes it is all ancient history, but my original comment was in response to some nonsense from ezzra. The point being that today the Palestinians have as much moral right to the land as the Israelis. Indeed, one could argue more right than the large numbers who have immigrated there since 1948 and  quickly became Israeli citizens under the Law of Return!

 

19 hours ago, Morch said:

Again, not really on topic, but as usual, incorrect. Israel does not "put" immigrants in the West Bank. The vast majority of immigrants to Israel do not reside in the West Bank. Another off the cuff nonsense.

 

Ok, if that statement is correct, where did all the people, including the children in the football teams in the OP, living in illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank come from? They weren't there before the settlements!

 

(Quotes from Morch edited for conciseness and to show which point I am addressing. Also edited to remove the usual "any criticism of Israel is simply headline bashing" nonsense.)

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

"And before the Jewish Kingdom "

 

Sorry, the Philistines and Assyrians died out thousands of years ago. 

So you are saying the distant past is irrelevant to this topic?

 

17 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You seem to be ignoring the Jewish Kingdoms in the distant past.

 Or is it only relevant when it suits you?

[yardrunner]

6 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

"And before the Jewish Kingdom "

 

Sorry, the Philistines and Assyrians died out thousands of years ago. 

But their descendants still live in the middle east and their ancestors never left the land unlike the jewish returnees

[Scott]

I think we can stop with the historical analysis.   We have no managed to go back as far as the Philistines and the Assyrians.  

 

Please get back on the topic and stay there.  

[Morch]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Totally by Jews, or mainly? Also, who lived there before Moses and Joshua arrived from Egypt and conquered it; who did they take the land from? Other Jews, or Gentiles?

 

Yes it is all ancient history, but my original comment was in response to some nonsense from ezzra. The point being that today the Palestinians have as much moral right to the land as the Israelis. Indeed, one could argue more right than the large numbers who have immigrated there since 1948 and  quickly became Israeli citizens under the Law of Return!

 

 

Ok, if that statement is correct, where did all the people, including the children in the football teams in the OP, living in illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank come from? They weren't there before the settlements!

 

(Quotes from Morch edited for conciseness and to show which point I am addressing. Also edited to remove the usual "any criticism of Israel is simply headline bashing" nonsense.)

 

"But where did the lighter fluid come from?"...(GOB, Arrested Development).

 

The strength of the Palestinian claim got very little to do with ancient history (which is not even part of their heritage or narrative). The opposite can be said with regard to the Israeli claim. I guess that weighing both claims and asserting the respective moral score could provide the grounds for endless discussions. However, as far as conflict resolution goes, it is enough to simply recognize that both sides have legitimate claims. 

 

As for your other "informed" statement, there is no "if". Immigrants are not given orders where to live, and Israel did not conquer the West Bank due to demographic needs related to immigration. The people that live on the illegal Israeli settlements are not necessarily newly arrived immigrants.

 

Having edited my post as to leave out those parts you're probably uncomfortable addressing, you could have at least not put words in my mouth - "any criticism of Israel is simply headline bashing" is not what appeared in my post.  I'm running a personal bet you'd argue this point as well...