Total Immersion – An Expats View after 10 years in Thailand

[Johnniey]

Sorry buddy but you can't start the naturalization process. Why mention it apart to sound superior.

You don't even have the Tabien bahn(Yellow Book) or the 3 years paying tax on over 40k.

[Johnniey]

Btw, it's Por 1- Por 6 not "bor".

[Khun Paul]

It was an interesting read, unfortunately a lot about what he wanted and did, a sort of self congratulatory article, attempting to educate us poor uneducated seniors who shoyld know better. Some good points, learning Thai and more interaction.

Food, after 15 years eaten Thai food , it does not agree with me some does but sitting on the floor , fine occasionally but not all the time, many of my Thai friends use tables and chairs as well.

Air-con goes without sayin g 5000 a month as opposed to 1400 a month for electric makes common-sense.

If it suits him so-be it ,but for many of us we have learnt to live and let live, as integration is obvious that assimilation into Thai society is very hard, also losing his British nationality would be a retrograde step as movement around the world will be harder.

But to each his own, not for me.

[faraday]

10 hours ago, hobobo said:

3,378 words! Words of infinte wisdom, and a subtle mockery of everyone else. What a lot of drivel!

Do you live in Thailand?

I thought that what the op wrote was very good. Its certainly not 'drivel'...

but maybe you are one of the 'many fools' on here that only wants negativaty, so they can boost their impotent ego.

[PumbaBangkok]

Bryan , is your effort to learn the language better quite recent? 28 hrs tuition per week would seem a lot after 10 years . I enjoyed the article, thanks for posting.

[kingalfred]

Personal view. Meaningless


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[onemorechang]

11 hours ago, hobobo said:

3,378 words! Words of infinte wisdom, and a subtle mockery of everyone else. What a lot of drivel!

 

Well done  counting all them words. 10 out of 10  for endurance . 

 

Cant take a western bar owner to serious on Tv

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by onemorechang

[joepattaya1961]

After almost 13 years living in Thailand I do agree on most of the OP's post.

 

Thai food: Not my favorite especially when lemon-grass or fermented fish-sauce is involved, but luckily there are some nice Thai dishes. I found a good balance between Thai food and Western food,  self-cooked or ready made .

Thai language:  I should be able by now to read, write, speak and understand Thai 90%, but unfortunately I'm not. If I'm trying most Thais say "Phood kaeng kaeng", but that's more a kind way of saying: The bugger is doing his best, but we've no clue what he's on about.

Thai time and appointments:  I've learned that having an appointment at 9 a.m. means that the actual meeting time is somewhere between 9 a.m. and 9.59 a.m.; as long as the "9" is used, they're in time. Was not easy to accept with my 50% German genes. However, more and more Thais manage to be in time for appointments and that's probably due to the smart use of smart-phones.

 Thai attitude:  The Thai's attitude and social behavior is pretty selfish and ignorant. Not only towards foreigners, but towards other Thais as well. Was not easy to deal with, but after almost 13 years I got used to it. It doesn't mean that I now slam the door in other people's faces or leave a full tray of waste at a KFC table.

Corruption:  That's something I'll never get used to. "Under the table deals", paying off officials, paying off police.....I just don't understand the 'game'. I don't seem to recognize the moment to make a 'deal'.

Thai discussion:  I've learned that Thais like to argue until the moment that they're about to loose (face). There will be a silence which should be respected or in other words: If the Thai become silent during an argument, stop arguing. There will be no more replies and it's if you're talking to a wall. Depending on the severeness this silence may last a few days until suddenly all is forgotten and fine again. This is not the moment to start the argument again......."Let it be!"

Having an argument with unknown Thais (e.g. in a bar or disco) will mostly result in a win on your side and the Thai opponent will leave the "battle-field" with a big smile, but watch out, he may return with (armed) forces and win the argument in his own way.

[hobobo]

22 minutes ago, onemorechang said:

 

Well done  counting all them words. 10 out of 10  for endurance . 

 

Cant take a western bar owner to serious on Tv

 

Luckily Microsoft Word can still count the words, I would have fallen off my bar stool before the end 55555

[Sealbash]

Please define "living like a Thai".


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[Khon Kaen Dave]

Great post,now,what was it you said again? I must be one of the much older guys(i'm not 60 yet) that he found it easier than to fit into life here.

What a waste of screen time,electricity and interest.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I also know a great place that he could be totally immersed in.

[Johnniey]

8 hours ago, Khun Paul said:

It was an interesting read, unfortunately a lot about what he wanted and did, a sort of self congratulatory article, attempting to educate us poor uneducated seniors who shoyld know better. Some good points, learning Thai and more interaction.

Food, after 15 years eaten Thai food , it does not agree with me some does but sitting on the floor , fine occasionally but not all the time, many of my Thai friends use tables and chairs as well.

Air-con goes without sayin g 5000 a month as opposed to 1400 a month for electric makes common-sense.

If it suits him so-be it ,but for many of us we have learnt to live and let live, as integration is obvious that assimilation into Thai society is very hard, also losing his British nationality would be a retrograde step as movement around the world will be harder.

But to each his own, not for me.

You don't lose your British nationality when getting Thai citizenship.

[Zyxel]

You wrote:

Learn the Language

 

Language is one of the biggest causes of arguments, conflicts in relationships, business and daily life. Not only that you become less efficient as a human and not reaching your potential here, you miss out of the ways Thai think, to really know what they are like, you need to learn their language, it does really teach you about their culture. Once your language skills take off, you have more understanding, therefore less things to get mad about. For instance Thais often say “wait 5 minutes” they translate this to our language and we take it as accurate approximation, otherwise they would have said 10 or 20 minutes right? Well they say 5 minutes to anything, so it could be 30 minutes lol But now I understand that I can deal with it by doing some work on my phone or going away and coming back. There are too many benefits to list from learning the language of the country you stay in and you often underestimate it until you start learning but if you want a better chance of happiness and satisfaction here, its better to talk to the locals and you will find a lot better prices around and maybe people that can help you. Plenty of Thais are more capable of helping us than most farang here, so its good to befriend them. I am currently learning Thai 28 hours per week again, reading and writing in part of my quest for total immersion. There is a whole new world opening up for me right now and you sure get Thais being a lot friendlier with you and nicer.

 

 

   I assume you are about 35 years old since you have been in Thailand for 10 years and you were 25 when you arrived. Learning Thai is difficult but at your age it is still possible. I was 44 when I started to go to a Thai language school and after 3 years I could speak not too bad, write simple sentences and read children books with simple vocabulary and also street signs etc. Today without enough practice I start forgetting my vocabulary and sometimes the right tone for a word. When I was 24 my company sent me to South America where I spent 6 years and I was fluent in Spanish in 3 or 4 months and still now after 30 years I can speak and understand very well. Just to say that  age is paramount when somebody is learning a new language especially Thai. Of course there are exceptions but if you start at 50 or more forget it you will never be fluent.

The graph below might be a bit extreme but it gives a good idea:

 

[Johnniey]

14 hours ago, Khun Paul said:

It was an interesting read, unfortunately a lot about what he wanted and did, a sort of self congratulatory article, attempting to educate us poor uneducated seniors who shoyld know better. Some good points, learning Thai and more interaction.

 

One thing you should know Paul is that nobody calls themselves "Khun". This is a word of respect that other people call you.

[JHolmesJr]

So now this guy is giving tips on total immersion in thai culture?

 

funny....his site is all about expat bingo player bar and gogo managers talking up whoring prices and barfines in pattaya. 

[Naam]

On 9/26/2016 at 10:02 AM, webfact said:

For instance Thais often say “wait 5 minutes” they translate this to our language and we take it as accurate approximation, otherwise they would have said 10 or 20 minutes right? Well they say 5 minutes to anything, so it could be 30 minutes lol But now I understand that I can deal with it by doing some work on my phone or going away and coming back. There are too many benefits to list from learning the language of the country you stay in and you often underestimate it until you start learning but if you want a better chance of happiness and satisfaction here, its better to talk to the locals and you will find a lot better prices around and maybe people that can help you.

 

it does not take Thai language proficiency to find out in no time that 5 minutes might mean an hour and 2 days might mean a week. and if happiness and satisfaction depends in your case on being fluent in Thai you have my profound sympathy. i also have strong doubts that when paying for your shopping in Foodland, Friendship, Tesco or Villa Market you get a discount when making small talk with the cashier.

[balo]

Sorry but total immersion is not for me.  I live in Thailand because of all the choices available to me . You can have the best of both worlds. Eating thai food on a mat on the floor is maybe cozy for some but I find it very uncomfortable.  I need some luxury that reminds me of the western world.   Still we can enjoy life here and be respectful to each other, understanding the culture is a part of it , but you don't have to swallow it. 

 

 

 

 

[jayboy]

Sorry buddy but you can't start the naturalization process. Why mention it apart to sound superior.
You don't even have the Tabien bahn(Yellow Book) or the 3 years paying tax on over 40k.

I don't think the Yellow Book is relevant to the process.If PR is seen as the stepping stone to naturalisation I think the monthly income required would in practice be greatly in excess of the theoretical minimum.

I had an acquaintance seeking PR who thought he could beat the system by paying over a small amount of tax.He failed.

I may be wrong but I don't think Pattaya bar people are very high up the list of priorities for PR or naturalisation.

[Johnniey]

On 9/27/2016 at 10:48 PM, Naam said:

 

it does not take Thai language proficiency to find out in no time that 5 minutes might mean an hour and 2 days might mean a week. and if happiness and satisfaction depends in your case on being fluent in Thai you have my profound sympathy. i also have strong doubts that when paying for your shopping in Foodland, Friendship, Tesco or Villa Market you get a discount when making small talk with the cashier.

Learning the language of the country you are living in is a waste of time according to you. This speaks volumes. No need to say any more.

[Johnniey]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

 

I don't think the Yellow Book is relevant to the process.If PR is seen as the stepping stone to naturalisation I think the monthly income required would in practice be greatly in excess of the theoretical minimum.

I had an acquaintance seeking PR who thought he could beat the system by paying over a small amount of tax.He failed.

I may be wrong but I don't think Pattaya bar people are very high up the list of priorities for PR or naturalisation.

 

 

It's double  going that route - monthly income of 80,000 baht, which isn't really that hard. 

 

This guy is going the marriage route but hasn't got the minimum requirements and won't have for a few years to even apply.

[Naam]

16 hours ago, Johnniey said:

Learning the language of the country you are living in is a waste of time according to you. This speaks volumes. No need to say any more.

 

i never claimed it's a waste of time. but i find claims ridiculous that speaking Thai is required

 

Quote

if you want a better chance of happiness and satisfaction here and a lot of better prices

 

i speak, read and write four languages fluently and can make myself understood in another three. and during nearly 12 years of living permanently in Thailand i was always able to manage using a little patience. that's enough reason for me to reject advice from boys who have never achieved something in their lives but aim "to live like Thais".

[Johnniey]

15 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

i never claimed it's a waste of time. but i find claims ridiculous that speaking Thai is required

 

 

i speak, read and write four languages fluently and can make myself understood in another three. and during nearly 12 years of living permanently in Thailand i was always able to manage using a little patience. that's enough reason for me to reject advice from boys who have never achieved something in their lives but aim "to live like Thais".

On many threads you have said that there are no advantages to learning the Thai language.

 

Ok, so you claim to be a linguist. Please tell us if you 1- Can't learn Thai or 2 - Won't learn Thai. 12 years is a long time, especially if you are retired.

 

English isn't one of your fluent languages as can be seen by your writing.  I wonder if you are actually fluent in any languages apart from whatever your native one is.

 

Do you consider yourself fluent in English?

 

What an arrogant thing to say, "  advice from boys who have never achieved anything in their lives".  You have no idea what other member have achieved.  Let me remind you that flaming is against forum rules.

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Johnniey

[CaptHaddock]

8 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

On many threads you have said that there are no advantages to learning the Thai language.

 

Ok, so you claim to be a linguist. Please tell us if you 1- Can't learn Thai or 2 - Won't learn Thai. 12 years is a long time, especially if you are retired.

 

English isn't one of your fluent languages as can be seen by your writing.  I wonder if you are actually fluent in any languages apart from whatever your native one is.

 

Do you consider yourself fluent in English?

 

 

Naam's written English is quite fluent, even with some traces of German structure.  I also believe him on his other language achievements, which I respect.  I am sure he could learn Thai if he wished, but it's quite obviously not necessary.  Bill Heinecke has become a billionaire in Thailand without knowing more than 100 words of Thai.

 

On the other hand, I do have my doubts about your own language ability.  You apparently fail to grasp, for instance, that the word "fluent" does not mean "like a native"  nor does it mean "without any accent." 

 

Learning Thai is a fine thing, but in itself doesn't prevent a jerk from being a jerk.

 

[Johnniey]

20 minutes ago, CaptHaddock said:

 

Naam's written English is quite fluent, even with some traces of German structure.  I also believe him on his other language achievements, which I respect.  I am sure he could learn Thai if he wished, but it's quite obviously not necessary.  Bill Heinecke has become a billionaire in Thailand without knowing more than 100 words of Thai.

 

On the other hand, I do have my doubts about your own language ability.  You apparently fail to grasp, for instance, that the word "fluent" does not mean "like a native"  nor does it mean "without any accent." 

 

Learning Thai is a fine thing, but in itself doesn't prevent a jerk from being a jerk.

 

You doubt my language ability? I am a native speaker. Are you saying native speakers are not fluent?

 

Any fluent English writer knows how and when to use the "Present Perfect tense", for example.

 

Bill Heinecke is Thai and not being able to speak Thai after living here for over 40 years is hardly something to admire him for.  Maybe he speaks other languages fluently though

 

BTW, are you calling me a jerk, the OP, or Nam?

 

I wonder what Nam thinks about people living in Germany for 12 years and not bothering to try to learn German. I'd really like to hear thoughts on this.

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by Johnniey

[Rimmer]

Please discuss the topic not other members,

[SaintLouisBlues]

On 9/26/2016 at 2:48 PM, alocacoc said:

I'm sure, everyone can create his own happiness regardless of the Country he stays. It's all about our mind.

Yes, a friend of mine is having a fabulous life in Aleppo

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Johnniey said:

I wonder what Nam thinks about people living in Germany for 12 years and not bothering to try to learn German. I'd really like to hear thoughts on this.

my thoughts: "i couldn't care less!"

[Johnniey]

53 minutes ago, Naam said:

my thoughts: "i couldn't care less!"

Thanks for replying to one of my questions, whether it is the truth or not. 1 out of 3 ain't bad as Meat Loaf said, or was it 2.

 

 

[Jeremy50]

10 years, and you still struggle to understand childish Thai TV shows? Have yet to try durian? It's great, but buy it with an expert, unripe, or over-ripe it's horrible. And if you get it wrong you waste a lot of money. Sorry, the concept of 'face' should never be defended by someone who one day wants to see Thailand develop. Thai nationality? No Thanks!  Girlfriends since the age of 14??????