The Thailand way of thinking

[kannot]

2 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Same old Kannot nothing to do with the subject just another grumpy side show

great contribution on your  behalf  though eh?

[kannot]

1 hour ago, Nurseynutcase said:

Have read the OP and all the replies.

I am from the UK and I find the'touchy-feely', hugs and kisses which is now prevalent in western society intimidating.  Upbringing? probably, but I strongly dislike being hugged and kissed by people who I may have met only once, I feel they are invading my personal space.

I don't mind so much when it's long term close friends but not relative strangers.

 

Thus i can understand and appreciate the Thai attitude.

I dont like this over the  top back slapping hugging  kissing when meeting someone either...pathetic imo

[dotpoom]

18 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

It's a culture thing, 18 months is not long enough try waiting about 7 years.  

 Seems to me the OP has got it down fairly pat......I have noticed and questioned the exact same points, only it took me a lot longer to put my finger on them

[Kwasaki]

33 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

 Seems to me the OP has got it down fairly pat......I have noticed and questioned the exact same points, only it took me a lot longer to put my finger on them

 

Yeah l was being brief and sorter joking really,  it's takes while getting use to Thai culture l could have gone on and wrote composition but it would be my interpretation and experience.

 

Many people here see Thai culture in all different ways so to relate it to there upbringing from where they come doesn't help, it ain't as easy as that IMO.

[JaiLai]

9 hours ago, Berkshire said:

 

This only demonstrates the sort of Thais you associate with.  The one demographic full of people from dysfunctional families are bargirls.  Which is why most are in that line of work to begin with.  The "normal" Thais I know are nothing like that.

I have moved in all circles in Thailand, this is what i have experienced / witnessed, i am not making this up.

[zd1]

I think the op is generalising a bit  in regards to his girlfriends family, it appears that his girlfriends family is a dysfunctional family and there are a lot of dysfunctional families in Thailand and indeed the world over. Maybe in his case the girlfriend went away to work, the children were brought up by their father or grandparents and possibly view their mother in an unfavourable light and don't really want any contact unless they want or need something from her, I don't know if this is the case but there are many cases such as this.

With my particular thai family they are affectionate towards my Mrs and myself and generally can't do enough for us when we are there, of course like any other family there are arguments from time to time, but I wouldn't consider them to be dysfunctional just normal.

With the thai way of doing things another poster made a very good comment about logic or lack of it and indeed when I first started coming to Thailand I found the way somethings are done to be quite frankly bizarre, you just have to accept that this is the way things work here and adapt to it otherwise it will drive you crazy.

[DUNROAMIN]

Thanks to everyone for the input regarding my post. It is interesting to see other peoples point of view on this subject. As one person stated maybe I need more time here to get my head around the Thai culture. Best wishes to all.

 

[DUNROAMIN]

4 minutes ago, zd1 said:

I think the op is generalising a bit  in regards to his girlfriends family, it appears that his girlfriends family is a dysfunctional family and there are a lot of dysfunctional families in Thailand and indeed the world over. Maybe in his case the girlfriend went away to work, the children were brought up by their father or grandparents and possibly view their mother in an unfavourable light and don't really want any contact unless they want or need something from her, I don't know if this is the case but there are many cases such as this.

With my particular thai family they are affectionate towards my Mrs and myself and generally can't do enough for us when we are there, of course like any other family there are arguments from time to time, but I wouldn't consider them to be dysfunctional just normal.

With the thai way of doing things another poster made a very good comment about logic or lack of it and indeed when I first started coming to Thailand I found the way somethings are done to be quite frankly bizarre, you just have to accept that this is the way things work here and adapt to it otherwise it will drive you crazy.

Hi, you are close to what you say, however my Thai G/F raised her children up to their early teens, and after her Thai husband decided to have it off with one of her close girlfriends. She stayed with him for a further 12 months for her children. Eventually the husband gave her the marching orders and she was forced to leave with just a suitcase to her name. I do agree that Thais come together when there is a family crisis, if it wasn't for her extended family she would have been homeless.

[zd1]

2 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Hi, you are close to what you say, however my Thai G/F raised her children up to their early teens, and after her Thai husband decided to have it off with one of her close girlfriends. She stayed with him for a further 12 months for her children. Eventually the husband gave her the marching orders and she was forced to leave with just a suitcase to her name. I do agree that Thais come together when there is a family crisis, if it wasn't for her extended family she would have been homeless.

I'm sorry to hear that it appears that she tried to do the right thing by her children and I can only guess that her ex husband has probably brainwashed the children against her, this happens unfortunately and is not restricted to Thailand.

I am from a similar situation when my parents split up, my mother was having it off with a builder working on the house next door when my father found out about it all hell broke loose, my mother ran of with the builder and my father was understandably very bitter about the whole thing and I didn't see my mother for many years. My fathers love for my mother turned to hate and he didn't want to hear anything about her after that and he did turn me against her to a degree.

I ended up having a good relationship with both my parents who are now both deceased but I was always closer to my father as he was the one that actually raised me.

[maxcorrigan]

On 9/26/2016 at 8:18 PM, Berkshire said:

OP, this has nothing to do with the Thais.  It's more about your GF and her dysfunctional family.  All the Thais that I know love their families and show it, probably more than westerners do. 

That is definitely the case, my Thai wife is often reduced to tears on the phone, just hearing about a simple illness misfortune etc. in her family, saying which she has a large family spread all over Thailand,  but they are all extremely close, and all come together on big occasions. 

[hawker9000]

14 hours ago, Global Guy said:

I have helped a number of Westerners transition to moving to Thailand over the years. One of the big things I repeat over and over it that you have to erase 95% of what you know about life and relearn it all in Thailand. Otherwise, you play the endless game of comparing Thai life to life in the West and it will frustrate, annoy, and/or anger you.

 

I have replaced "Why do they.......?" with "How can I........?"

 

If you ask why, you are eventually doomed to frustration.

 

This is difficult for Westerners because we think our way is the standard way of doing things. For example, we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road. Thais, they just drive onto the main road and expect everyone to move out of the way. We think that's crazy because you put your life in all the other strangers hands. But that's just how it is.

 

As a former clinical psychotherapist, I used to have a natural tendency to cognitively decipher behavior here. I stopped that 100% within the first few months of living here. My all time favorite saying "don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none." Adjust your expectations.

 

It's not a judgment or a better/worse issue, it's just a observation of what is. You see things, don't try and figure them out. Just adapt. Let things flow through your brain with little to no thought to them or you will drive yourself crazy. I often feel like I float through life here because I have to put my mind in neutral just to survive. It's almost like a perpetual daydream state. That's what works for me. If I pay too much attention to everything, then it attaches to my Western upbringing filter, and it's frustrating.

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

 

No.  "Don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none."   You got it right the first time. Logic is logic.  Cause and effect.  Choices and consequences.  You say you're trained as a clinical psychologist.  So you know that.

 

" For example, we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road."  Brother have you been gulping down the koolaid!  It IS safer!!!!  Sheesh.

 

As I said in an earlier post, some foreigners come to Thailand and just let themselves slide into the ditch, which would be one of complacency, fatalism, and apathy.  Glad that works for you.  Seriously, that's fine with me; each to his own.  It's when people like you start preaching to the rest of us for NOT doing that, that I object.

 

Adaptation, for me, lies not in pretending what's not real is real, turning off the brain cells, and deluding oneself into thinking the obviously irrational is "the better way".  Adaptation, for me, is more about objective assessment and learning to tolerate and work within the boundaries of one's actual environment.  The former is genesis of the flat-lining "love it or leave it" crowd.  The latter are those who've genuinely and effectively "adapted".

 

[daveAustin]

Sorry op, but as soon as I read country girl / Pattaya, I switched off. Emotions tend to be withheld, but your scenario is not indicative of Thais.

[ToS2014]

send money = I love you.  Accept money = I love you back.  If you/she/he/them do something that you... don't like, don't worry, I... won't talk about it and it will be as if....well u get the point.  Easy peasy

[elgenon]

In general, Westerners are much more touchy-feely and expressive than Asians. Above a certain age girls can not touch dad, male friend. My GF would pull me safely across the road by my sleeve. I remember a Korean asked why, when she banged into someone's grocery cart, she did not apologize. She said no need, the person knew she was sorry.

 

The main reason Thai women don't like to move to a foreign country is because they are so close to their moms. In general, they would prefer a husband move to where their mom lives.

 

IMHO

[DUNROAMIN]

13 hours ago, zd1 said:

I'm sorry to hear that it appears that she tried to do the right thing by her children and I can only guess that her ex husband has probably brainwashed the children against her, this happens unfortunately and is not restricted to Thailand.

I am from a similar situation when my parents split up, my mother was having it off with a builder working on the house next door when my father found out about it all hell broke loose, my mother ran of with the builder and my father was understandably very bitter about the whole thing and I didn't see my mother for many years. My fathers love for my mother turned to hate and he didn't want to hear anything about her after that and he did turn me against her to a degree.

I ended up having a good relationship with both my parents who are now both deceased but I was always closer to my father as he was the one that actually raised me.

Hi zd1, thanks for your input, good to talk to somebody on an adult level, Thai Visa Forums sometimes end up being a bum fight with people who just want to shit stir. I guess we all have our own perspective on life, depending on our family up bringing, whether western or European style country, religion, race, etc. Maybe over time here I will become accustom to the Thai way of life. I can see by what you have written you had your share of ups and downs with your family, I don't think there are too many perfect families around these days and everybody has a story to tell about their up bringing.

Strange as it seems, talking about this subject, this morning while having breakfast my girl looked at me and burst into tears, and told me she misses her two daughters, we discussed this issue for a while and hopefully I have convinced her to visit them or they come and visit us. I am sure you understand that over time you need to fill that missing space in your life. Leave it too long and it becomes harder everyday to take that first step. She does not know that I am discussing this issue with anybody, sixth sense or deja-vue, took me by surprise.

Cheers

[BudRight]

23 hours ago, Global Guy said:

I have helped a number of Westerners transition to moving to Thailand over the years. One of the big things I repeat over and over it that you have to erase 95% of what you know about life and relearn it all in Thailand. Otherwise, you play the endless game of comparing Thai life to life in the West and it will frustrate, annoy, and/or anger you.

 

I have replaced "Why do they.......?" with "How can I........?"

 

If you ask why, you are eventually doomed to frustration.

 

This is difficult for Westerners because we think our way is the standard way of doing things. For example, we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road. Thais, they just drive onto the main road and expect everyone to move out of the way. We think that's crazy because you put your life in all the other strangers hands. But that's just how it is.

 

As a former clinical psychotherapist, I used to have a natural tendency to cognitively decipher behavior here. I stopped that 100% within the first few months of living here. My all time favorite saying "don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none." Adjust your expectations.

 

It's not a judgment or a better/worse issue, it's just a observation of what is. You see things, don't try and figure them out. Just adapt. Let things flow through your brain with little to no thought to them or you will drive yourself crazy. I often feel like I float through life here because I have to put my mind in neutral just to survive. It's almost like a perpetual daydream state. That's what works for me. If I pay too much attention to everything, then it attaches to my Western upbringing filter, and it's frustrating.

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

 

This is a rather lazy attitude, and it's one Thais like to cultivate in Westerners unfortunately. I suspect the motive is to cultivate dependency on a host of helpful guides and assistants. Thais have reasons for doing things they way they do, the same as anywhere else. The reason might be asinine, but it's there, somewhere. Often it isn't very complicated. Just because that reason eludes you at first glance doesn't mean there isn't one. 

 

I think your view contributes to the illusion of false enlightenment to the Thai way of doing things. There is no zen mastery going on, no secret Asian sauce. It's just different cultural norms, a different legal system, insular outlook and a language barrier all of which conspire to make things opaque, canvassed with cultural stereotypes about enlightened orientals. 

[tifino]

and, then there is the copy-thinking - a sort of herd instinct, where the younger one are obliged to think and do what 'pi Noi says:

 

we were only 3 days before getting married, and elder sister put herself into the wedding party

- even taking over:

 - to give away the bride

 - and even displace my nephew, with her own son

 

oh yeah, the copying:

anyhow 3 days prior to marry day...

 - future SIL and I are in car waiting for fiance to come back in from the shop.

In conversation it came around, to I somehow mentioned about missus trying to lose more weight, and even trying vegan (diet)

 

SIL sparks up and comes back with a "Vegan!!!  oh that is where she no sex" and turns away smirking

(I'm only 3 days from honeymooning, remember!! )

 

Later that evening I mentioned to missus about what SIL had said...

Missus face twists during extreme deep- thinking:

"oh yes that right, I no have sex when vegan. It Thai way"

 

well was that a downer, or what!!!

 

Minutes later, I'm back in room and SIL comes in.

I repeated what had just gone down.

SIL jerks back... "I only joking"

 

"yes well, please tell my missus that, because she always does what you say"

 

I also bounced this back to missus (which didn't work BTW)

 

and so my last card to play was to describe to her the Vietnam War era flower power movement, and the Vegan thing that came out of that. You know - the 'sex tastes better when you are doing with a vegan'

 

Hmmmmm - m=now on a regular basis, missus now fervently does her vegan act.

(and she's Isaan, not a southerner (where, around the Phuket area, the Thai vegan thing emanates from)

 

But it suits her purposes down to the ground...

 

... sometime I feel like I am living a Monk's existence

    - every time following a long phone call between missus and SIL

 

herd instinct thinking - is alive and well

 

 

[Global Guy]

13 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

 

No.  "Don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none."   You got it right the first time. Logic is logic.  Cause and effect.  Choices and consequences.  You say you're trained as a clinical psychologist.  So you know that.

 

" For example, we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road."  Brother have you been gulping down the koolaid!  It IS safer!!!!  Sheesh.

 

As I said in an earlier post, some foreigners come to Thailand and just let themselves slide into the ditch, which would be one of complacency, fatalism, and apathy.  Glad that works for you.  Seriously, that's fine with me; each to his own.  It's when people like you start preaching to the rest of us for NOT doing that, that I object.

 

Adaptation, for me, lies not in pretending what's not real is real, turning off the brain cells, and deluding oneself into thinking the obviously irrational is "the better way".  Adaptation, for me, is more about objective assessment and learning to tolerate and work within the boundaries of one's actual environment.  The former is genesis of the flat-lining "love it or leave it" crowd.  The latter are those who've genuinely and effectively "adapted".

 

I know I never posted that the Thai way is better and I'm certainly not fostering dependency on anyone. My entire point was to not try and decipher Thai culture through a Western cognitive filter, that's all. It is a very Western thought process to constantly ask why people do things the way they do. If you try and figure everything out here, it will drive you mad. That's it.

 

Why do Thai people drive so recklessly? I'm sure there are a dozen excuses and it doesn't really matter if I know why or not I just have to know how to adapt to not get killed. That's just one prominent example.

 

[zd1]

6 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Hi zd1, thanks for your input, good to talk to somebody on an adult level, Thai Visa Forums sometimes end up being a bum fight with people who just want to shit stir. I guess we all have our own perspective on life, depending on our family up bringing, whether western or European style country, religion, race, etc. Maybe over time here I will become accustom to the Thai way of life. I can see by what you have written you had your share of ups and downs with your family, I don't think there are too many perfect families around these days and everybody has a story to tell about their up bringing.

Strange as it seems, talking about this subject, this morning while having breakfast my girl looked at me and burst into tears, and told me she misses her two daughters, we discussed this issue for a while and hopefully I have convinced her to visit them or they come and visit us. I am sure you understand that over time you need to fill that missing space in your life. Leave it too long and it becomes harder everyday to take that first step. She does not know that I am discussing this issue with anybody, sixth sense or deja-vue, took me by surprise.

Cheers

It seems that what I thought about the father brainwashing the children against their mother is probably true, unfortunately this often happens when relationships break down and there is children involved. Your girlfriend seems to have done all she can even by staying with a cheating husband for a year for the sake of the children.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this problem but talking to her about it and offering support is a good start. Try to arrange a visit or a meet somewhere, beware that the children may have a skewered view of things and may behave insolently towards both of you but it isn't their fault and they have probably been listening to what their father is saying.

I sincerely hope that everything will work out for you all in the end, as a good mother needs her children as much as the children need their mother.

[DUNROAMIN]

1 hour ago, zd1 said:

It seems that what I thought about the father brainwashing the children against their mother is probably true, unfortunately this often happens when relationships break down and there is children involved. Your girlfriend seems to have done all she can even by staying with a cheating husband for a year for the sake of the children.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this problem but talking to her about it and offering support is a good start. Try to arrange a visit or a meet somewhere, beware that the children may have a skewered view of things and may behave insolently towards both of you but it isn't their fault and they have probably been listening to what their father is saying.

I sincerely hope that everything will work out for you all in the end, as a good mother needs her children as much as the children need their mother.

OK thanks for the chat, I hope things are good for you in LOS, take care, cheers.

[MikeyIdea]

On 28/09/2016 at 3:38 AM, hawker9000 said:

 

On 28/09/2016 at 3:38 AM, hawker9000 said:

 

No.  "Don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none."   You got it right the first time. Logic is logic.  Cause and effect.  Choices and consequences.  You say you're trained as a clinical psychologist.  So you know that.

 

 

Totally wrong about Logic is logic the way you mean it.  Cause and effect Yes.  Choices and consequences Yes, but not logic is logic. Why not? Because...

 

Logic depends on your core values and they differ greatly between cultures

 

We all know how very important it is (in the Thai culture... but let's not say that to emphasise how wrong the statement Logic is logic is) to not confront, to not stick out but fall in line like everybody else, to not question, to be respectful, to be humble and polite

 

Logically.. parents then of course teach their children to become like that with the desired effect and all is good. Cause and effect , choices and consequences. Yes...

 

Another parent from another country, let's not say which one but just that it was "discovered" by a man called Columbus something last month, rather value that his child has high self confidence, is competitive, and have good leadership skills and of course teaches that

 

Perhaps the American parent thinks the Thai parent is bad because he doesn't teach his child what is important...

Perhaps the Thai parent thinks the American parent is bad because he doesn't care that his child is loud, disrespectful and rude... and on top of that he doesn't even teach his child what is important

 

Logic is logic so the American parent must be a total idiot because he doesn't teach his children what is important, just look at the consequences 

 

Logic is logic so the Thai parent must be a total idiot because he doesn't teach his children what is important, just look at the consequences 

 

Perhaps ThaiVisa members bashing everything Thai they don't understand are right, or perhaps Oscar Wilde was right when he wrote that America Is the Only Country That Went from Barbarism to Decadence Without Civilization In Between?

 

No, it's rather that Logic is logic yes, but the result of it depends on your core values

[MikeyIdea]

You got the title of the thread wrong  but that is OK, you've only been here 18 months

 

Global Guy is definitely on the right track if you want to - not learn but understand the Thailand thinking

 

It will finally come unconsciously but you're doing just fine asking here to help you on the way. Keep your good attitude up and you will understand more in the next 18 months than many ThaiVisa members who have been in Thailand for 10 years has

 

You will go through phases, you start with a total zero and everything is wrong, then you start to think that you can predict but that wasn't so... then you really start to be able to predict and get it right and one day you will even understand

 

It takes time but it is a wonderful journey

 

Good Luck

 

Psst

Realising how much core values influence how people think and react is a good start so try to look for what really is important for Thai's, their core values

 

Also, Thai's do not show feelings as openly as westerners so you'd think that they don't matter as much but it is actually totally the opposite. Feelings are actually much more important for Thai's. That makes Thai's very good at picking up feelings. Why does westerners have to scream their feelings all the time...? Thai's don't have to

 

Also, you'd think that Thai's aren't disciplined at all and that is mostly true, it's simply because feelings are more important, they influence much more

 

"How can I" together with the good attitude you show and you'll get there

 

Now a final Good Luck

MikeyIdea

 

 

 

[starky]

On 27/09/2016 at 1:50 PM, Global Guy said:

I have helped a number of Westerners transition to moving to Thailand over the years. One of the big things I repeat over and over it that you have to erase 95% of what you know about life and relearn it all in Thailand. Otherwise, you play the endless game of comparing Thai life to life in the West and it will frustrate, annoy, and/or anger you.

 

I have replaced "Why do they.......?" with "How can I........?"

 

If you ask why, you are eventually doomed to frustration.

 

This is difficult for Westerners because we think our way is the standard way of doing things. For example, we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road. Thais, they just drive onto the main road and expect everyone to move out of the way. We think that's crazy because you put your life in all the other strangers hands. But that's just how it is.

 

As a former clinical psychotherapist, I used to have a natural tendency to cognitively decipher behavior here. I stopped that 100% within the first few months of living here. My all time favorite saying "don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none." Adjust your expectations.

 

It's not a judgment or a better/worse issue, it's just a observation of what is. You see things, don't try and figure them out. Just adapt. Let things flow through your brain with little to no thought to them or you will drive yourself crazy. I often feel like I float through life here because I have to put my mind in neutral just to survive. It's almost like a perpetual daydream state. That's what works for me. If I pay too much attention to everything, then it attaches to my Western upbringing filter, and it's frustrating.

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

Spot on. Great advice.

[Squeegee]

On 9/27/2016 at 10:08 AM, JingerBen said:

Exceptionally good post, Berkshire.

Concise and to the point.

You really plugged his hole.

 

[hawker9000]

3 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Totally wrong about Logic is logic the way you mean it.  Cause and effect Yes.  Choices and consequences Yes, but not logic is logic. Why not? Because...

 

Logic depends on your core values and they differ greatly between cultures

 

We all know how very important it is (in the Thai culture... but let's not say that to emphasise how wrong the statement Logic is logic is) to not confront, to not stick out but fall in line like everybody else, to not question, to be respectful, to be humble and polite

 

Logically.. parents then of course teach their children to become like that with the desired effect and all is good. Cause and effect , choices and consequences. Yes...

 

Another parent from another country, let's not say which one but just that it was "discovered" by a man called Columbus something last month, rather value that his child has high self confidence, is competitive, and have good leadership skills and of course teaches that

 

Perhaps the American parent thinks the Thai parent is bad because he doesn't teach his child what is important...

Perhaps the Thai parent thinks the American parent is bad because he doesn't care that his child is loud, disrespectful and rude... and on top of that he doesn't even teach his child what is important

 

Logic is logic so the American parent must be a total idiot because he doesn't teach his children what is important, just look at the consequences 

 

Logic is logic so the Thai parent must be a total idiot because he doesn't teach his children what is important, just look at the consequences 

 

Perhaps ThaiVisa members bashing everything Thai they don't understand are right, or perhaps Oscar Wilde was right when he wrote that America Is the Only Country That Went from Barbarism to Decadence Without Civilization In Between?

 

No, it's rather that Logic is logic yes, but the result of it depends on your core values

 

Wrong.  You're simply confusing the word "culture" with the word "logic".   CULTURE dictates what a parent teaches his children, which may be logical or not logical.  

 

"...to not confront, to not stick out but fall in line like everybody else, to not question, to be respectful, to be humble and polite"

 

That's culture, not logic.

 

reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

"experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic"

synonyms:

reasoning, line of reasoning, rationale, argument, argumentation "the logic of their argument"

[kannot]

On 9/27/2016 at 0:50 PM, Global Guy said:

I have helped a number of Westerners transition to moving to Thailand over the years. One of the big things I repeat over and over it that you have to erase 95% of what you know about life and relearn it all in Thailand. Otherwise, you play the endless game of comparing Thai life to life in the West and it will frustrate, annoy, and/or anger you.

 

I have replaced "Why do they.......?" with "How can I........?"

 

If you ask why, you are eventually doomed to frustration.

 

This is difficult for Westerners because we think our way is the standard way of doing things. For example, we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road. Thais, they just drive onto the main road and expect everyone to move out of the way. We think that's crazy because you put your life in all the other strangers hands. But that's just how it is.

 

As a former clinical psychotherapist, I used to have a natural tendency to cognitively decipher behavior here. I stopped that 100% within the first few months of living here. My all time favorite saying "don't look for logic where there is none" can be best modified for here as "don't look for Western logic where there is none." Adjust your expectations.

 

It's not a judgment or a better/worse issue, it's just a observation of what is. You see things, don't try and figure them out. Just adapt. Let things flow through your brain with little to no thought to them or you will drive yourself crazy. I often feel like I float through life here because I have to put my mind in neutral just to survive. It's almost like a perpetual daydream state. That's what works for me. If I pay too much attention to everything, then it attaches to my Western upbringing filter, and it's frustrating.

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

"we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road. Thais, they just drive onto the main road and expect everyone to move out of the way. We think that's crazy because you put your life in all the other strangers hands. But that's just how it is."

 

Its  called  "being lazy" doesnt need a psychology degree .Thais are  lazy, dress it up however you like

[kannot]

6 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

Totally wrong about Logic is logic the way you mean it.  Cause and effect Yes.  Choices and consequences Yes, but not logic is logic. Why not? Because...

 

Logic depends on your core values and they differ greatly between cultures

 

We all know how very important it is (in the Thai culture... but let's not say that to emphasise how wrong the statement Logic is logic is) to not confront, to not stick out but fall in line like everybody else, to not question, to be respectful, to be humble and polite

 

Logically.. parents then of course teach their children to become like that with the desired effect and all is good. Cause and effect , choices and consequences. Yes...

 

Another parent from another country, let's not say which one but just that it was "discovered" by a man called Columbus something last month, rather value that his child has high self confidence, is competitive, and have good leadership skills and of course teaches that

 

Perhaps the American parent thinks the Thai parent is bad because he doesn't teach his child what is important...

Perhaps the Thai parent thinks the American parent is bad because he doesn't care that his child is loud, disrespectful and rude... and on top of that he doesn't even teach his child what is important

 

Logic is logic so the American parent must be a total idiot because he doesn't teach his children what is important, just look at the consequences 

 

Logic is logic so the Thai parent must be a total idiot because he doesn't teach his children what is important, just look at the consequences 

 

Perhaps ThaiVisa members bashing everything Thai they don't understand are right, or perhaps Oscar Wilde was right when he wrote that America Is the Only Country That Went from Barbarism to Decadence Without Civilization In Between?

 

No, it's rather that Logic is logic yes, but the result of it depends on your core values

so if  i put a  gun to my head and  pull the trigger, my core values dictate that  my brains will not be spread all over the wall .........

[MikeyIdea]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

so if  i put a  gun to my head and  pull the trigger, my core values dictate that  my brains will not be spread all over the wall .........

 

Core values don't dictate, they influence. They influence what we are, what we do and the decisions we make

 

It is quite clear that someone who does something as drastic as putting a gun to his head and pulling the trigger has taken a decision and don't mind the particular consequence you bring up 

 

[MikeyIdea]

6 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

 

Wrong.  You're simply confusing the word "culture" with the word "logic".   CULTURE dictates what a parent teaches his children, which may be logical or not logical.  

 

"...to not confront, to not stick out but fall in line like everybody else, to not question, to be respectful, to be humble and polite"

 

That's culture, not logic.

 

reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

"experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic"

synonyms:

reasoning, line of reasoning, rationale, argument, argumentation "the logic of their argument"

 

I am glad that we have a disagreement

 

If you see logic strictly as a process that has nothing to do with the end result, then of course you are right, that is not what I saw you doing though.

 

You put "Logic is logic.  Cause and effect.  Choices and consequences" right beside each other so you also connect logic to the end result

 

People reference their logic and judge

 

[AYJAYDEE]

3 hours ago, kannot said:

"we think it's safer to look for traffic when coming off a side street onto a main road. Thais, they just drive onto the main road and expect everyone to move out of the way. We think that's crazy because you put your life in all the other strangers hands. But that's just how it is."

 

Its  called  "being lazy" doesnt need a psychology degree .Thais are  lazy, dress it up however you like

 

no they dont