University degree an obligation?

[KevT]

I am looking into teaching English in Thailand. From what I've been reading, it seems that you need a university degree for this to be possible. I find this odd. I will soon have 2 college degrees, can speak 3 languages—one of them being Thai, which I will be nearly fluent by then—actually have some experience teaching, owned small businesses, and will have all the needed TEFL/TESOL training without a problem (250 hours if need be). Put me next to a freshly-graduated university student, and I probably have lots of knowledge, experience and a few $100 000 in my pockets which he or she doesn't have.

 

I understand that schools want qualified and well-educated people, but to consider someone who doesn't have a university degree as inferior and less knowledgable isn't true. University degrees these days cost many thousands of dollars and oftentimes result in very little experience or useful knowledge. Ask many people who earned a university degree and many will tell you it was either a complete waste of time, money and energy, or that it is of very little use to them when you compare to how the real world actually is. Depends on what kind of degree/work though—some degrees are useful; some not at all.

 

So is a university degree truly an obligation to teach English in Thailand?

Edited October 2, 2016 by KevT

[allane]

Yes, if you want a Work Permit, and/or your employer wants you to have one. If you want to complete the Thai Culture Course, so that you will not be dependent on two year waivers, you must not only have a university degree, but an education degree, to be allowed to that.

[muzmurray]

48 minutes ago, KevT said:

and a few $100 000 in my pockets

 

48 minutes ago, KevT said:

University degrees these days cost many thousands

 

You already told us you have the money.  

 

Presumably it is the motivation that you are lacking?

 

Also, I thought you were going to ordain and become a monk?

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by muzmurray

[KevT]

30 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

You already told us you have the money.  

 

Presumably it is the motivation that you are lacking?

 

No, I don't have that kind of money. But the student would probably have that amount or more in debt. Might not have been the best phrasing.

 

Quote

Also, I thought you were going to ordain and become a monk?

 

 

Still my plan. I would like to improve my Thai before (fluency). I also want to work in my new career and really get used to lay life in all its aspects before ordaining. Better chance of staying in robes if I know what both options are (what I am giving up).

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by KevT

[BruceMangosteen]

The University experience is more about maturing and interacting with other educated people than it is about learning a specific discipline. The Thai's are very correct in demanding people who have actually studied in a real University vs some online nonsense. Good luck to you. 

[KevT]

9 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

The University experience is more about maturing and interacting with other educated people than it is about learning a specific discipline. The Thai's are very correct in demanding people who have actually studied in a real University vs some online nonsense. Good luck to you. 

 

I agree. Though having 2 college degrees and having some teaching experience does have its own weight.

 

Colleges in Canada come before university. I did a total of 6 years of education (actual schools), in two different programs after high school. Sad that I can't teach in Thailand only because I don't have a paper that says B.A. (or other) on it. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by KevT

[KevT]

So from this, I imagine that public and private schools are out of the question if someone doesn't have a university degree. What about other schools, such as those that aren't public or MOE-run schools? Like private English lessons/classes?

Edited October 3, 2016 by KevT

[tonray]

I am having trouble understanding how you can have 2 college degrees but not a Bachelor's degree...exactly what college degrees do you have ?

[BruceMangosteen]

30 minutes ago, tonray said:

I am having trouble understanding how you can have 2 college degrees but not a Bachelor's degree...exactly what college degrees do you have ?

That's a good question tonray. I was reminded however that in Ireland they don't call college degrees "B.A" or "B.S." etc.. Perhaps the poster is from a country which uses other lingoes. Convincing the TCT of that is possible but it takes real work and patience. 

[thequietman]

10 hours ago, BruceMangosteen said:

The University experience is more about maturing and interacting with other educated people than it is about learning a specific discipline. The Thai's are very correct in demanding people who have actually studied in a real University vs some online nonsense. Good luck to you. 

Online universities require real discipline. Holding down a job, taking care of a family and studying also, is a real difficult prospect. The TCT accepts Open University UK degrees, so that cancels out that opinion.

[KevT]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

I am having trouble understanding how you can have 2 college degrees but not a Bachelor's degree...exactly what college degrees do you have ?

 

In the province in Canada that I live in, we have a school between high school and university. In most countries, students go from high school and then directly to university. Here, after high school, we do 2-3 years in college and then head off to university for 3-4 more years. I considered university way too expensive and not that useful, so I chose other avenues, of which 2 college degrees were part of this.

 

I guess that someone without a university degree in the rest of the world would basically only have a high school degree. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by KevT

[tonray]

1 minute ago, KevT said:

 

In the province in Canada that I live in, we have a school between high school and university. In most countries, students go from high school and then directly to university. Here, after high school, we do 2-3 years in college and then head off to university for 3-4 more years.

But what degree do you have ? Associates degree....we also have 2 year colleges in the USA...but they do not confer a bachelor's degree which is what the MOE here is looking for in a legal teacher.

[KevT]

2 hours ago, KevT said:

So from this, I imagine that public and private schools are out of the question if someone doesn't have a university degree. What about other schools, such as those that aren't public or MOE-run schools? Like private English lessons/classes?

 

So do private/non-government-run schools require a university degree (private English lessons, etc.)?

Edited October 3, 2016 by KevT

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, KevT said:

 

So do private/non-government-run schools require a university degree (private English lessons, etc.)?

You cannot legally teach without a degree. you will not be granted a work permit and would be working illegally, something that is frowned upon by the government, subject to severe fines and deportation if caught.

Edited October 3, 2016 by tonray

[KevT]

Say for countries where the educational system isn't the same or the naming is different as the US, is there a way to contact the Ministry of Education or somewhere else in Thailand to have the degree be recognized as on par or the same as a university degree?

[muzmurray]

6 hours ago, tonray said:

You cannot legally teach without a degree. you will not be granted a work permit and would be working illegally, something that is frowned upon by the government, subject to severe fines and deportation if caught.

 

But the OP can teach legally without a degree in a language school/centre as these do not fall under OBEC or TCT.

[tonray]

23 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

But the OP can teach legally without a degree in a language school/centre as these do not fall under OBEC or TCT.

Are you saying he can teach at a language center without a work permit ? 

[muzmurray]

10 minutes ago, tonray said:

Are you saying he can teach at a language center without a work permit ? 

 

No, I am saying that he does not need a degree to teach at a language centre and get a work permit.

 

The stipulation for a degree comes from both OBEC and TCT, and neither covers language centres.

[tonray]

1 minute ago, muzmurray said:

 

No, I am saying that he does not need a degree to teach at a language centre and get a work permit.

 

The stipulation for a degree comes from both OBEC and TCT, and neither covers language centres.

Have there been any instances of the Ministry of Labor issuing a work permit to teach when the applicant does not have a degree ? 

[muzmurray]

18 minutes ago, tonray said:

Have there been any instances of the Ministry of Labor issuing a work permit to teach when the applicant does not have a degree ? 

 

Honestly, I would not have a clue.  :-)

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

Honestly, I would not have a clue.  :-)

My point being, that in an advice thread, what technically is feasible but has likely almost never happened in reality, is not going to help the OP. The reality is he cannot work on a tourist Visa and 99.999999 % of Language schools will not sponsor him for a Work Permit/Non-B without a degree because the MOL will likely never approve a work permit or Immigration approve an extension.

[KevT]

21 minutes ago, tonray said:

My point being, that in an advice thread, what technically is feasible but has likely almost never happened in reality, is not going to help the OP. The reality is he cannot work on a tourist Visa and 99.999999 % of Language schools will not sponsor him for a Work Permit/Non-B without a degree because the MOL will likely never approve a work permit or Immigration approve an extension.

 

I've looked it up, and the documents regarding a work permit on different Thai embassy and legal sites mention only a signed copy of an "Education degree". I do have a degree—2 actually, which are nearly the equivalent of a university degree, but the way the education system works where I live is not the same as in the US (and requiring a teaching degree when teachers in schools aren't even required to do so doesn't really make sense). Plus I'll be nearly fluent in Thai by then.

 

So if I have a Non-Immigrant visa, TEFL/TESL/TESOL training and certificate, 2 "education degrees", and the school/centre vouches for me (being nearly fluent in Thai being an interesting asset for the school/centre), you think the work permit will be refused?

[KevT]

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

 

But the OP can teach legally without a degree in a language school/centre as these do not fall under OBEC or TCT.

 

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

 

No, I am saying that he does not need a degree to teach at a language centre and get a work permit.

 

The stipulation for a degree comes from both OBEC and TCT, and neither covers language centres.

 

Thanks for info. Even if it might be unlikely, it is good to know that there is a chance that it could work out. Worth a try. 

[tonray]

11 minutes ago, KevT said:

 

I've looked it up, and the documents regarding a work permit on different Thai embassy and legal sites mention only a signed copy of an "Education degree". I do have a degree—2 actually, which are nearly the equivalent of a university degree, but the way the education system works where I live is not the same as in the US (and requiring a teaching degree when teachers in schools aren't even required to do so doesn't really make sense). Plus I'll be nearly fluent in Thai by then.

 

So if I have a Non-Immigrant visa, TEFL/TESL/TESOL training and certificate, 2 "education degrees", and the school/centre vouches for me (being nearly fluent in Thai being an interesting asset for the school/centre), you think the work permit will be refused?

Yes....your chances of getting a work permit without a Bachelor's degree are small.

 

BTW...as someone who teaches English in Thailand....why do you want to do this ? It is not an easy job and for someone with a good education there likely are better opportunities in Canada.

 

This isn't about a girl you met online, is it ?

 

PS Actually being fluent in Thai is irrelevant. Means nothing to a language school in Thailand.

Edited October 4, 2016 by tonray

[tonray]

Why not enroll at a western University and try to get the bulk of your credits transferred towards a Bachelor's degree ?  If what you say is true, then you should be able to get a degree with just a few extra credits and be done with fighting the system. If you cannot transfer your credits then you cannot rightfully think that Thailand will think much of them either.

[KhaoNiaw]

Having a degree is a pretty basic requirement. It's just a point of reference for potential employers that you've been educated to a  certain level. You can bang on all day about how qualified you believe you are but why should anyone take your word for it.

 

You're certainly not the first Canadian to want to teach in Thailand so I guess that the authorities will be familiar with the Canadian education system and already have guidelines on what qualifications are considered equivalent to a university degree.

 

No-one's going to vouch for you because you're pretty fluent in Thai - it's not really that unusual these days and isn't a skill that will gain you any extra points with the Labour Department. 

[KevT]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Yes....your chances of getting a work permit without a Bachelor's degree are small.

 

BTW...as someone who teaches English in Thailand....why do you want to do this ? It is not an easy job and for someone with a good education there likely are better opportunities in Canada.

 

This isn't about a girl you met online, is it ?

 

PS Actually being fluent in Thai is irrelevant. Means nothing to a language school in Thailand.

 

I don't know where you get your facts. Have you worked at government establishments in Thailand or are you stating things as certain simply based on things mentioned on visa and work-related documents online? All the work permit documents say that only an "Education degree" is needed. There is no mention of a university or bachelor's degree. And again, I do have a degree, just not a university degree (not the same education system). 

 

And regarding being fluent in Thai, while it may not be of any use regarding government establishments, it can be a very good asset for language centres looking for good teachers, as well as getting to know people that work there. A teacher who is native in English and fluent in Thai, compared to a teacher who is native in English but can't speak Thai, has a big plus. Maybe not on paper, but definitely for the students and with the people at those centres/schools. 

No, it isn't about a Thai girl I met online. My intention of being in Thailand is not to date at all. Are you being serious?

 

Sorry if this is direct, but what you've been saying is basically "no, no, it's not possible", and then you ask me if I am heading off to Thailand because of a girl I met online. If there is a possibility to work in non-governmental-run schools, even if small, why write something off as "not going to help the OP" and then give advice that it is almost certain that it will never happen? 

Edited October 4, 2016 by KevT

[KevT]

53 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Having a degree is a pretty basic requirement. It's just a point of reference for potential employers that you've been educated to a  certain level. You can bang on all day about how qualified you believe you are but why should anyone take your word for it.

 

You're certainly not the first Canadian to want to teach in Thailand so I guess that the authorities will be familiar with the Canadian education system and already have guidelines on what qualifications are considered equivalent to a university degree.

 

No-one's going to vouch for you because you're pretty fluent in Thai - it's not really that unusual these days and isn't a skill that will gain you any extra points with the Labour Department. 

 

Thanks for the response. Yes, I agree that a degree is important. I'm just trying to assess if the college degrees that I have can be considered as university-level education, and if not, if there are other ways or places (legal) where I can teach of which a university or bachelor's degree isn't a requirement. 

[tonray]

7 minutes ago, KevT said:

 

I don't know where you get your facts. Have you worked at government establishments in Thailand or are you just guessing based on hearsay? All the work permit documents say that only an "Education degree" is needed. There is no mention of a university or bachelor's degree. And again, I do have a degree, just not a university degree (not the same education system). 

 

And regarding being fluent in Thai, while it may not be of any use regarding government establishments, it can be a very good asset for language centres looking for good teachers, as well as getting to know people that work there. A teacher who is native in English and fluent in Thai, compared to a teacher who is native in English but can't speak Thai, has a big plus. Maybe not on paper, but definitely for the students and with the people at those centres/schools. 

No, it isn't about a Thai girl I met online. My intention of being in Thailand is not to date at all. Are you being serious?

 

Sorry if this is direct, but what you've been saying is basically "no, no, it's not possible", and then you ask me if I am heading off to Thailand because of a girl I met online. If there is a possibility to work in non-governmental-run schools, even if small, why write something off as "not going to help the OP" and then give advice that it is almost certain that it will never happen? 

 

Ok..Good luck to you then. I am finished trying to talk some sense into someone who simply has an idea that he is correct o matter what the situation on the ground really is. you do not have a 4 year degree....end of story.

[KevT]

17 minutes ago, tonray said:

 

Ok..Good luck to you then. I am finished trying to talk some sense into someone who simply has an idea that he is correct o matter what the situation on the ground really is. you do not have a 4 year degree....end of story.

 

It's difficult to take things into consideration when there is almost no explanation/references. I don't know much about the information you're presenting or your background. The only thing I see is a username and text on a white background. 

 

Either way, thanks for the advice. It did help to understand more of what I need to look up. Cheers.

Edited October 4, 2016 by KevT