Validating a Thai Marriage Certificate

[owenjones]

Hi,

 

I would like to Validate our Thai Marriage Certificate, does anyone know exactly where I need to go to do that?

I have read The Ministry of the Interior AND the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Can it be done in the provinces?

 

Regards,

Owen

[Peterw42]

I presume you mean a non Thai marriage certificate. The process is usually get it certified as genuine from your consulate, then translated and certified at Ministry of Foreign Affairs in BKK.  

[theoldgit]

As a matter of interest why do you need to "validate" your marriage certificate?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[owenjones]

Hi,

 

No, I mean a Thai marriage cert.

Why? Because my wife was refused a family policy 180-day Schengen visa at the Spanish Embassy in BKK 'because the certificate might not be genuine' You can buy them in the market, he told me.

Anyway, I have since found out that you do not need to be married for the visa I want for my wife, I only need to prove that we have had a long-standing and meaningful relationship, but that cuts no ice in the Spanish Emb. They want to see a Hague stamp of authenticity on the document.

 

Regards,

Owen

[NanLaew]

I think I recall another member last year banging his head against the Spanish Embassy wall re- their demands for documentation for Schengen visa-related matters that doesn't legally exist. Even having the Spanish Immigration in Spain confirm that it wasn't required cut no ice with the troglodytes at the Lake Rajada offices.

Edited October 11, 2016 by NanLaew

[7by7]

That was slightly different as the Spanish embassy were demanding a document confirming the UK recognised a Thai marriage from the British embassy; a document which doesn't exist. A complaint was made to SOLVIT and the Spanish were, as you say, reprimanded and the Spanish immigration authorities confirmed that such a document was not required.

 

It seems that the Spanish embassy is now trying a different approach in their efforts to deprive EEA nationals and their non EEA family members of their rights under the Freedom of Movement Directive. Presumably so they can make a bit of dosh by charging for visas which should be issued for free.

 

I recommend making a complaint to SOLVIT.

[owenjones]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I think I recall another member last year banging his head against the Spanish Embassy wall re- their demands for documentation for Schengen visa-related matters that doesn't legally exist. Even having the Spanish Immigration in Spain confirm that it wasn't required cut no ice with the troglodytes at the Lake Rajada offices.

That is my experience too.

 

Owen

[owenjones]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

That was slightly different as the Spanish embassy were demanding a document confirming the UK recognised a Thai marriage from the British embassy; a document which doesn't exist. A complaint was made to SOLVIT and the Spanish were, as you say, reprimanded and the Spanish immigration authorities confirmed that such a document was not required.

 

It seems that the Spanish embassy is now trying a different approach in their efforts to deprive EEA nationals and their non EEA family members of their rights under the Freedom of Movement Directive. Presumably so they can make a bit of dosh by charging for visas which should be issued for free.

 

I recommend making a complaint to SOLVIT.

This is what they tried on us. I said that only a British court can validate a marriage, so we would have to go to the UK, but we wanted to go to Spain. The man shrugged.

But the shrug was a lie.

In Spain two solicitors told us that we had to go back to TL to get a Hague validation stamp, but this is also no true. Couples with a proven relationship of 3+ years have the same rights as married couples.

We are going belt and braces next time and complaints will be issued.

 

Thanks,

Owen

[owenjones]

The second Clause 3 is what they use against us:

 

Requirements for Spanish or E.U. citizen Family visa.

Family member of the EU citizen are entitled to apply for this type of visa. Should the purpose is to reside in Spain, after the visa has been granted the applicant must apply for a residence card in Spain not less than one month after entering Spain.
Documents required:
1.    2 visa applications duly filled. Applications not duly filled will not be accepted.
2.    Valid passport and its copy.
3.    2 photographs, colour, with white background, less than 6 months old.
4.    A letter of consent from the EU citizen stating that the applicant is accompanying/joining or will live with him/her in Spain, with copy of certificate of “Inscripción del Registro Central de Extranjeros” (Central Registry Office for Foreigners).
5.    Documents proving the relationship between the applicant and Spanish/EU citizen.

1.    Spouse of Spanish, French, and Portuguese citizen: Family book issued by that country member.
2.    Marriage certificate issued by EU country of that national or a document issued by EU authority recognizing a marriage to have the same legal effects as that EU countries member.
3.    In the case of marriage registration carried out in Thailand or in other non EU countries: the marriage registration must be certified according to the consular procedures of that EU nationals´ Embassy.
4.    In case of family reunion for children under 18, a certificate from the respective authorities confirming that the person has the parental power over the child. The document must be legalized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs representing that country.
5.    For family member over 21 years of age: document proving that the applicant has been financially supported by the EU family member for more than one year.
6.    Document proving that EU citizen and the family member is travelling together or reuniting in Spain.

Following documents may be required by Spanish authority in Spain when applying for the residence card.
•    Medical certificate at least in English stating the applicant does not suffer from “any of the diseases that might have serious consequences for public health, according to the 2005 International Health Regulations (IHR)” (http://www.who.int/ihr/health_risks/en/).
1)    small pox
2)    poliomyelitis due to wild type poliovirus
3)    human influenza caused by a new subtype, and
4)    severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)
•    Police Clearance Certificate issued by the relevant authorities of the country of origin or residence, regarding the last 5 years. The validity of the certificate is 3 months. The certificate must be legalized by the concerned Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Spanish Embassy representing that country, or certificate with Apostille stamp as the case may be.
•    All foreign documents, to have legal effects in Spain, must be legalized and translated into Spanish with certified translation by the Embassy. To obtain a residence card please see the link: 
http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es/InformacionInteres/InformacionProcedimientos/CiudadanosComunitarios/hoja103/index.html#requisitos

As of January 3rd, 2011 - The visa application must be submitted in person.

Citizens from Cambodia, Burma/Myanmar and Laos may apply for EU Family visa at the Embassy of Spain in Bangkok, Thailand.

The visa fee is exempted.

You must request an appointment to submit your visa application at [email protected]
Visa applications will be submitted on Tuesday and Thursday from 10 to 12 hour

Visa can be picked up from Monday to Friday from 12 to 13 hour

Bangkok, 26-10-15. 
 

Edited October 11, 2016 by owenjones
Clarification

[Davidll]

I had a similar situation with the Greek embassy. I'd already contacted the consular and had him confirm in an email that all I required for my wife was to show our marriage translated in to English and a few other bits and pieces. Being the wife of a EU citizen there was no need for bank statements etc. All sounded great until she went in and they demanded bank statements. I picked up the phone and managed to get through to him directly. He started banging on about the need for the marriage document to be stamped by the British embassy. I then called the British embassy to be told they offer no such service.

 

By this time I was fuming and emailed him back his own email listing the requirements he had sent me. Thankfully they backed down and agreed I was right. I also asked him to refund her visa charge as it should have been free for the wife of an EU citizen. They did give her money back when she went to pick up her passport. No problems on entry.

 

To be honest I think with the huge influx of migrants, they are just trying to make it as difficult as possible.

 

Cant you apply for a Visa for somewhere easier like Holland? Then just go to Spain anyway as there is no requirement to go direct to Spain (I think). Just book a fully refundable flight with a good airline like Emirates. Pay by credit card and get it refunded after you have the visa. That's how I got around the need to book a flight before getting the visa.

[theoldgit]

4 hours ago, Davidll said:

Cant you apply for a Visa for somewhere easier like Holland? Then just go to Spain anyway as there is no requirement to go direct to Spain (I think). Just book a fully refundable flight with a good airline like Emirates. Pay by credit card and get it refunded after you have the visa. That's how I got around the need to book a flight before getting the visa.

Whilst the Netherlands is a bit more relaxed with genuine applicants for spouses, or in my case a partner, of EU Nationals, you still have to satisfy them that they are the Consulate with jurisdiction for your main destination.

No your main destination doesn't have to be the country you enter the Schengen Area but you do have to supply evidence what is your main destination.

When we flew in Schiphol recently my partner, armed with a longer term Schengen Visa, was asked about our stay, and some fellow passengers were being fairly robustly questioned.

[owenjones]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

Whilst the Netherlands is a bit more relaxed with genuine applicants for spouses, or in my case a partner, of EU Nationals, you still have to satisfy them that they are the Consulate with jurisdiction for your main destination.

No your main destination doesn't have to be the country you enter the Schengen Area but you do have to supply evidence what is your main destination.

When we flew in Schiphol recently my partner, armed with a longer term Schengen Visa, was asked about our stay, and some fellow passengers were being fairly robustly questioned.

The Netherlands is a lot more expensive to live in and colder - I'll stick with Spain :-)

[Davidll]

My friend applied for Germany and flew to Germany. Two days later they decided to go to Spain and ended staying there. Once the visa is issued and you have entered the EU then there is nothing to stop you travelling around. They applied at German Embassy as for the same reasons as the OP, the Spanish were being bloody awkward. Plans changed and they ended up enjoying Spain.

 

Even when my wife applied at the Greek embassy they were being obstructive in my opinion but I'm not sure if it was deliberate or they did not understand what they were doing. I even pointed out on the application it clearly states that if you are the wife of an EU citizen then don't fill out this section, move on. They still argued and tried to make her fill it in. As I had the consulates direct email and telephone I asked him directly if he wanted my wife to fill in the section despite it being against EU guidelines. Probably not the wisest move but I also threatened to take the matter up with the European Commission. I was livid at the time as he was the one who gave me all the guidelines in the first place.

 

Sometimes its like banging your head against the wall with these people. It's all very well making us follow bloody difficult and sometimes costly rules but it would help if they knew what they were doing and followed their own set of rules.

 

Please see attached letter that was actually supplied by the Greek Embassy when they gave me an example of what was needed (before I told them it was not). Funny it's to the Spanish Embassy. Armed with this you could approach the British Embassy and possibly get it done for yourself.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Davidll

[post]

19 hours ago, owenjones said:

This is what they tried on us. I said that only a British court can validate a marriage, so we would have to go to the UK, but we wanted to go to Spain. The man shrugged.

But the shrug was a lie.

In Spain two solicitors told us that we had to go back to TL to get a Hague validation stamp, but this is also no true. Couples with a proven relationship of 3+ years have the same rights as married couples.

We are going belt and braces next time and complaints will be issued.

 

Thanks,

Owen

I am not sure whether I understand correctly by "a British court can validate a marriage".

 

Does it mean a British court can validate (legalise) a [foreign] marriage?

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Davidll said:

Please see attached letter that was actually supplied by the Greek Embassy when they gave me an example of what was needed (before I told them it was not). Funny it's to the Spanish Embassy. Armed with this you could approach the British Embassy and possibly get it done for yourself.

 

Unfortunately, that was in 2007. More recent experience of some members has shown that the British embassy no longer issue such letters.

 

1 hour ago, post said:

I am not sure whether I understand correctly by "a British court can validate a marriage".

 

Does it mean a British court can validate (legalise) a [foreign] marriage?

 

There is no need for a British court to 'validate' or 'legalise' a foreign marriage because under the Foreign Marriages Act 1892 (as amended) any marriage which is legal in the country where it is registered is also legal in the UK.

[post]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Unfortunately, that was in 2007. More recent experience of some members has shown that the British embassy no longer issue such letters.

 

 

There is no need for a British court to 'validate' or 'legalise' a foreign marriage because under the Foreign Marriages Act 1892 (as amended) any marriage which is legal in the country where it is registered is also legal in the UK.

Thanks for your reply.  It really makes clearer.

 

If I understand correctly, a Thai Marriage Certificate can be legalized by the Thai MFA easily.

How about the translated Marriage Certificate (in English done by an approved translator in Thailand).  Does it need to get notarized by a Thai Notary before being legalized by the Thai MFA. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by post

[lopburi3]

No - actually there is no official notary system in Thailand - just have translated and they can get it registered with MFA and deliver the official copy to you.  Often documents are accepted without the official legalization by MFA but good to have one or two just in case and you are not in Thailand when asked.  

[owenjones]

6 hours ago, post said:

I am not sure whether I understand correctly by "a British court can validate a marriage".

 

Does it mean a British court can validate (legalise) a [foreign] marriage?

 

Yes, ONLY a British court in the UK can validate a marriage to a Brit (see UK Embassy website) - see attachment

[owenjones]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

No - actually there is no official notary system in Thailand - just have translated and they can get it registered with MFA and deliver the official copy to you.  Often documents are accepted without the official legalization by MFA but good to have one or two just in case and you are not in Thailand when asked.  

Are you talking about the Hague stamp?

If so, is that obtainable from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in BKK?

And if so, where is that, please?

I know that this info is important to me.

 

Regards,

Owen

[owenjones]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Unfortunately, that was in 2007. More recent experience of some members has shown that the British embassy no longer issue such letters.

 

 

There is no need for a British court to 'validate' or 'legalise' a foreign marriage because under the Foreign Marriages Act 1892 (as amended) any marriage which is legal in the country where it is registered is also legal in the UK.

'No need' is true, but the Spanish Emb in BKK demanded it of us and refused a family policy visa for my Thai wife.

[Davidll]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Unfortunately, that was in 2007. More recent experience of some members has shown that the British embassy no longer issue such letters.

 

Actually the British Embassy did come back to me about this letter as I sent it via email. It was a week later and the said they could do it for me if I popped in. By that time it was not need and I was in the UK anyway.

 

it was strange though that the Greek Embassy was showing me a letter that was originally intended for the Spanish embassy. Did they never have any sent to the Greek embassy. Seems both Embassy's are trying to clamp down and make it difficult.

[lopburi3]

Are you talking about the Hague stamp?
If so, is that obtainable from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in BKK?
And if so, where is that, please?
I know that this info is important to me.
 
Regards,
Owen

MFA is the legalization for Thai documents for international use. Same building Thai get there passports on Chiang Watanna Road.

[7by7]

19 hours ago, owenjones said:

 

Yes, ONLY a British court in the UK can validate a marriage to a Brit (see UK Embassy website) - see attachment

 

That letter is basically explaining why a British embassy cannot 'validate' a local marriage; because only a court can rule on that; if such a ruling is ever necessary.

 

As said, and as it says in the letter, the normal situation is that if the marriage is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK as well. In which case the court would rule that the marriage is valid in England and Wales.

 

Note that attachment is about the situation under English and Welsh law, not British law. As the letter says, the law is different in Northern Ireland and Scotland.

 

Whether the Spanish, or anyone else, will accept that letter as 'validation' of a Thai marriage I cannot say. Click here to download it.

[owenjones]

On 10/13/2016 at 6:07 PM, 7by7 said:

 

That letter is basically explaining why a British embassy cannot 'validate' a local marriage; because only a court can rule on that; if such a ruling is ever necessary.

 

As said, and as it says in the letter, the normal situation is that if the marriage is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK as well. In which case the court would rule that the marriage is valid in England and Wales.

 

Note that attachment is about the situation under English and Welsh law, not British law. As the letter says, the law is different in Northern Ireland and Scotland.

 

Whether the Spanish, or anyone else, will accept that letter as 'validation' of a Thai marriage I cannot say. Click here to download it.

 

I do, and the Spanish do not accept it.

I have asked the British Emb in BKK how to validate our marriage and they have forwarded my inquiry to the FO in London.

 

Owen

Edited October 14, 2016 by owenjones

[7by7]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 4:34 PM, owenjones said:

'No need' is true, but the Spanish Emb in BKK demanded it of us and refused a family policy visa for my Thai wife.

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:07 PM, 7by7 said:

Whether the Spanish, or anyone else, will accept that letter as 'validation' of a Thai marriage I cannot say.

 

17 hours ago, owenjones said:

 

I do, and the Spanish do not accept it.

 

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:37 AM, NanLaew said:

I think I recall another member last year banging his head against the Spanish Embassy wall re- their demands for documentation for Schengen visa-related matters that doesn't legally exist. Even having the Spanish Immigration in Spain confirm that it wasn't required cut no ice with the troglodytes at the Lake Rajada offices.

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:58 AM, 7by7 said:

A complaint was made to SOLVIT and the Spanish were, as you say, reprimanded and the Spanish immigration authorities confirmed that such a document was not required.

 

It seems that the BKK Spanish embassy are still ignoring the SOLVIT ruling and the instructions of their masters in Madrid!

 

I, again, recommend that you contact SOLVIT and maybe see if you can contact the Spanish equivalent of UKVI directly.

 

(Quotes edited for clarity)

Edited October 15, 2016 by 7by7

[taxout]

The "Hague stamp" you keep hearing about is an apostille, a stamp authorized to replace more formal legalisation of documents under the "Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents." But Thailand is not a party to this convention and thus apostilles, "Hague stamps" if you will, are not available in Thailand. You need to get the marriage certificate formally legalised by MFA.

The Spanish Embassy certainly knows this and should not confuse you by referring to "Hague stamps" which are non-existant in Thailand.

Edited October 16, 2016 by taxout

[7by7]

4 hours ago, taxout said:

<snip>

You need to get the marriage certificate formally legalised by MFA.

The Spanish Embassy certainly knows this and should not confuse you by referring to "Hague stamps" which are non-existant in Thailand.

 

The Spanish embassy are not asking for any formal legalisation by the MFA; which I'm not sure if the MFA would do anyway as the original marriage certificate is a legal document in Thailand already. But even were the MFA to do this, it seems that it would not satisfy the Spanish embassy.

 

What they are demanding is validation from the British embassy that the marriage is legally recognised in the UK.

 

As already said, a legal Thai marriage is also legal in the UK and any further validation can only be issued by a court in the relevant UK country. Therefore the British embassy cannot issue such validation. The British embassy have produced a letter stating both these points, see above, but the Spanish embassy refuse to accept it.

 

Again as already said, demanding this 'validation' goes against the Freedom of Movement Directive, as confirmed by SOLVIT, and the information obtained from the Spanish immigration department in Madrid!

[owenjones]

On 10/15/2016 at 3:55 PM, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

It seems that the BKK Spanish embassy are still ignoring the SOLVIT ruling and the instructions of their masters in Madrid!

 

I, again, recommend that you contact SOLVIT and maybe see if you can contact the Spanish equivalent of UKVI directly.

 

(Quotes edited for clarity)

 

I have contacted Solvit - thanks :-)

 

Owen

[theoldgit]

Post removed, whilst I can understand your frustration that sort of response really isn't helpful.

[RubbaJohnny]

Ho Chi Minh require a certified Thai wedding certificate and house book for a non O to visit spouse where would she do this?