webfact Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Dentists object to new restrictions on X-ray usage BANGKOK, 13 October 2016 (NNT) – A network of dentists has filed a complaint with the Ministry of Science and Technology against a new law which will require them to first get certified as radiation safety officers in order to operate X-ray scanners. A petition was submitted to Permanent Secretary for Science and Technology Dr Soranit Siltharm by a group of over 100 dentists from both the public and private sectors against the 2016 version of the Nuclear Energy for Peace Act, which will take effect in February 2017. The dentists claimed the law will impact their profession as it mandates that, prior to performing X-ray procedures on patients, they must undergo training and assessment on radiation safety and obtain certification as radiation safety officers. They will also be required to have a license for each dental X-ray machine in their possession. The group explained that dental X-ray machines expose patients to only a small amount of radiation and no one has ever sustained injuries when receiving dental X-rays. They called for the annulment of the clause obligating them to get certified as radiation safety officers, reasoning that all dentists have already been through radiology courses. In response, the Permanent Secretary for Science and Technology affirmed that the newly-revised law intends to protect both practitioners and patients from the dangers of radiation. Nonetheless, he accepted the dentists’ complaint for consideration, expecting to discuss it with related agencies in the coming days. -- nnt 2016-10-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Injuries to patients? Unlikely. Injuries to nursing staff? Very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, trogers said: Injuries to patients? Unlikely. Injuries to nursing staff? Very likely. staff expendable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatproblem Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Safety in Thailand is only a word spoken,it's not something to be acted upon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 THis looks like inappropriate legislation handed out with little or no research - dentists reply is also way short of the mark. the situation in many Thai dentists is that unqualified or insufficiently trained people are operating the X-ray equipment. This could increase risks to both patients and staff. Around the world all dentists are required to hae some for of X-ray safety officer and regular inspections - unfortunately this kind of monitoring in Thailand is inconsistent and often clouded by issues of graft, nepotism and corruption. all the is dictum really does is highlight yet another glaring gap in proper monitoring of healthcare in Thailand and the "professionals" reasitance to any change to the status quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I think because he has such a caring attitude for safety, Permanent Secretary for Science and Technology Dr Soranit Siltharm should immediately be given a salary increase and transferred to be in charge of improving driving safety standards at the Department of Transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The Ministry is correct in seeking to improve standards associated with dental x-ray. For those interested take a look at the UK Guidelines for the safe use of dental x-ray equipment -- issued by the National Radiological Protection Board. http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/DentalServices/Documents/ArchivePDF/guidance.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingba Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 no checks and balances in Thailand??...what a surprise.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, Lingba said: no checks and balances in Thailand??...what a surprise.... Why the cynicism directed toward Thailand ? Thailand is no worse than many third world countries and much better than some. If you dislike Thailand and what you perceive to be a lack of "checks and balances" then go home --- you will not be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bark Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 hours ago, trogers said: Injuries to patients? Unlikely. Injuries to nursing staff? Very likely. In 12 years of living here. I've had at least 50 tooth x-rays. I always wonder how dangerous they are ? But the tooth pain always wins out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little mary sunshine Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Of course they should be certified in proper use and settings for X-Ray equipment for everyone's safety. Any dentist that objects to safety precautions I wouldn't go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said: Any dentist that objects to safety precautions I wouldn't go to. How do you check a dentists attitude toward safety precautions? Please share your knowledge ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 hours ago, webfact said: A petition was submitted to Permanent Secretary for Science and Technology Dr Soranit Siltharm by a group of over 100 dentists from both the public and private sectors against the 2016 version of the Nuclear Energy for Peace Act, which will take effect in February 2017. The dentists claimed the law will impact their profession as it mandates that, prior to performing X-ray procedures on patients, they must undergo training and assessment on radiation safety and obtain certification as radiation safety officers. They will also be required to have a license for each dental X-ray machine in their possession. They don't do any of this? Good grief... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 26 minutes ago, Fithman said: Why the cynicism directed toward Thailand ? Thailand is no worse than many third world countries and much better than some. If you dislike Thailand and what you perceive to be a lack of "checks and balances" then go home --- you will not be missed. Ah, a go home post. How quaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudRight Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 At a minimum, the equipment vendor is supposed to provide maintenance and calibration of the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Bluespunk said: How quaint. Not "quaint" just truthful and good advice. Some are fed up with the "Thai bashing" comments from the ignorant few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Fithman said: Not "quaint" just truthful and good advice. Some are fed up with the "Thai bashing" comments from the ignorant few Expressing a view isn't bashing. People have a right to express criticism if it is deserved. And in this case dentists protesting at basic safety precautions is deserving of lambasting. If someone does ''bash'', then prove why their point is wrong. Don't just go with knee jerk reactions. Edited October 13, 2016 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 If you read the comment I responded to you will note that it does not relate to the topic and is just a sly general Thai bashing remark Welcome to my ignore list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fithman said: If you read the comment I responded to you will note that it does not relate to the topic and is just a sly general Thai bashing remark Welcome to my ignore list Ignore list? Like I care. If you disagree with the post then point out why it is wrong. Edited October 13, 2016 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, Fithman said: Why the cynicism directed toward Thailand ? Thailand is no worse than many third world countries and much better than some. If you dislike Thailand and what you perceive to be a lack of "checks and balances" then go home --- you will not be missed. Don't be an offensive and ignorant dope.In medical and dental proficiency Thailand, at least in Bangkok, is in most respects the equal of most first world countries. My experience however is that in even otherwise excellent dental facilities there can be a problem with x-ray equipment management.In a first class facility (Bumrungrad) a few years ago the dental nurse photographed the wrong tooth despite my repeated protests.On another occasion the nurse took 3 x-rays because of poor placement of the camera. I mentioned these problems to the dentist (a highly competent and skilled one) who predictably brushed my concerns aside.To have paid attention would have meant taking responsibility ... which of course would never happen. Probably not much to be worried about (though these X-ray practices would have been verboten in the UK).But I do wonder sometimes in Thailand what my remedies would be if there was a major medical cock up.Would a doctor/nurse testify against a colleague in a court of law? Doubt it somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancid Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 My experience is that dental clinics vastly overuse x-rays for diagnosis, notwithstanding the fact that the "x-ray technician" often has to give it 2 or 3 tries to get the right picture. Recently had some dental work done back home, he didn't use x-rays, his skills as a dentist had him find all the problem areas. In fact one tech x-raying me here didn't even stand behind the lead shielding! I had to explain to her about cumulative radiation and asked if she ever planned on having children. Once she actually understood, she was well back behind the screen. Disgraceful it was never explained to her by the clinic, and in a major CM hospital to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, Rancid said: I had to explain to her about cumulative radiation What is the maximum safe dose of radiation in mSv/year which a) staff and b] patients should be exposed to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 38 minutes ago, BudRight said: At a minimum, the equipment vendor is supposed to provide maintenance and calibration of the machine. The vendor may "make available" maintenance and calibration, but it's up to the owner of the X-ray equipment to buy that service. Just like getting your car service...purely up to you. I expect periodic calibration and preventive maintenance is rarely done on dental X-ray machines in private clinics Thailand....it's probably more like use the machine until it breaks then call someone in to fix it and hopefully calibrate it....and hopefully they are using calibrated equipment to calibrate the X-ray machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebell Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I managed to go over 60 years in UK with only one dental X-ray. In Thailand almost every visit is accompanied by an X-ray. It's a way of adding 500 baht to your bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little mary sunshine Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Fithman said: How do you check a dentists attitude toward safety precautions? Please share your knowledge ..... You our could start by getting the names of all these dentists that are objecting and never going to them... at least it would be a START. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fithman Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, little mary sunshine said: You our could start by getting the names of all these dentists that are objecting and never going to them... at least it would be a START. I await you posting the list ! My own dentist is not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, mikebell said: I managed to go over 60 years in UK with only one dental X-ray. In Thailand almost every visit is accompanied by an X-ray. It's a way of adding 500 baht to your bill. My experience at my Bangkok dentist for the last 8 years has been completely different, for both the wife and I. We have checkup/cleanings every 6 months....I've maybe had 3 x-rays over those 8 years/at least 16 dental visits. Now the wife has probably had around 10 X-rays with probably 30 visits because she had some definite problems with certain areas of her mouth where I can understand and would want to see the X-ray done before deciding on the specific treatment. Guess it can vary greatly from dentist to dentist and the state of each person's teeth as to how many X-rays are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 16 hours ago, BudRight said: At a minimum, the equipment vendor is supposed to provide maintenance and calibration of the machine. Incorrect. The purchaser BUYS a maintainence contract, which would provide reoutine maintainence and calibration on a regular basis. The key point is that the dentist must PAY for said maintainence. It is NOT provided for free by the vendor, at least outside of whatever the warrantee specifies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Fithman said: The Ministry is correct in seeking to improve standards associated with dental x-ray. For those interested take a look at the UK Guidelines for the safe use of dental x-ray equipment -- issued by the National Radiological Protection Board. http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/DentalServices/Documents/ArchivePDF/guidance.pdf Well aware of the UK guidelines - unfortunately the Thai "solution" doesn't come anywhere near being as effective ....all it does is introduce another layer of legislation that won't be monitored or enforced. It is the basic culture in healthcare that is flawed and no amount of nape-of-the-neck dictums and patches are going to sort that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Pib said: My experience at my Bangkok dentist for the last 8 years has been completely different, for both the wife and I. We have checkup/cleanings every 6 months....I've maybe had 3 x-rays over those 8 years/at least 16 dental visits. Now the wife has probably had around 10 X-rays with probably 30 visits because she had some definite problems with certain areas of her mouth where I can understand and would want to see the X-ray done before deciding on the specific treatment. Guess it can vary greatly from dentist to dentist and the state of each person's teeth as to how many X-rays are done. ...and you aren't concerned about the amount of X-rays? QED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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