Seminar: Long-stay Challenges

[evenstevens]

a seminar,is a exchange of words, and  thats the best , in this case, one will ever,  hope to  get out of them, in particular this seminar,which is not the first to be  presented in c/mai,largely  due  to being supported , and organised ,

by the C.E .C. led by their Commander In Cheif

in all ,this particurlar social club is just   a  nice social club, and to be honest a  toothless paper tiger, in securing a better service at c/mai,s immgr dept,

as its their peice of dirt  ,  sure E/S feels a better service should be provided ,but the C/mai,s  immgr  dept,    Is,    What  It   Is,   Full  Stop.

at least this seminar from reports ,was conducted  in a very nice manner, none of the gung ho tactics ,and carpet bombing,of the immgr dept which has been posted on this board,  E/S signs off with,  It Takes Two To  Tangle,  Or Tango,   E/S  sincerely wishes the latter

 

 

[Torrens54]

13 hours ago, neilrob said:

I attended. Nancy made a good speech. The seminar was interesting , but depressing.

 

The Thai speakers repeatedly said how they welcomed long term stayers. There was also reference to Malaysia being number one for retirees and how they would like to make northern Thailand number one instead. The Minister was gracious and said she was not interested in beautiful plans, but action. She also said she wanted to hear input from us and there was indeed substantial opportunity for us to ask questions and make comments at various points during the afternoon. All this sounds good. However, I detected no willingness to address even the most obvious and easy solutions, such as a long term visa with less repetitive reporting (if you want long term stayers, it seems a no brainer to offer a long term visa!) The minister said she would consider this (although I suspect she does not actually have the power to do anything about visas) but said there may be "security considerations", which sounds like a killer.

 

The head of CM Immigration was slated to appear, but was "too busy", which gives an idea of the value Immigration attaches to this process. He sent two junior officers instead. Interestingly, one of these officers came up to me after I had asked a question about a long term visa and said that is what Immigration would like to see also. This was before the Minister had appeared. He asked me to make sure the minister heard this also. I did so, but with the above depressing result.

Many thanks for the report.

[Torrens54]

13 hours ago, Greenside said:

Here's a brief summary:
The meeting was well organised and well attended, with simultaneous translation in four languages, decent catering in an accessible and comfortable venue with good parking.

While the speakers did their best to assure us that the government is becoming increasingly aware of the value of Long-Stay Tourists, it soon became obvious that their definition of this sector was not the appropriate one for the audience as it included anyone staying for over a month in the area.  Hence the detailed projects and plans that were set out (with a multitude of PowerPoint slides in one case) were irrelevant to most of the needs of those of us who regard Chiang Mai as home.

It was suggested that perhaps a new term be coined for this group, perhaps Long-Stay Guests, so that resources aren't wasted providing us with services we don't need.  Nancy and members of the audience were invited to set forth the wants and concerns of the groups represented at the meeting and they were clearly aired to the officials present, including (for a time, at least) two immigration officers.  The points included:

 

• The known issues with CM immigration.  Why does our service appear to be inferior to other parts of the country?
• The idea of a 3, 5 or even 10 year visa for those who have been given say five consecutive extensions and not broken any laws or regulations in that period.
• A way that over 65s could join the public heathcare scheme at an affordable price which would make financial sense for the government in the context of our overall annual spending.
• Getting some positive regional and possibly international action to improve the air quality from both burning and local pollution.
• Some consideration for the needs of older citizens, including more provision for handicapped access, fixing sidewalks and the like.

The Minister for Sport & Tourism,who is the person responsible, flew up from Bangkok for the final hour or so of the day and was made aware of all these issues.  Sadly, despite hints from previous speakers, she wasn't able to bring us good news about visa changes (or anything else for that matter) but at least she is now aware of us as a significant and valuable group that with just a little care can continue to contribute no small sum to the local economy.

 

Time will tell if this achieves more than just the usual hot air and excuses, but showing a united front in this way seems a big step in the right direction and I believe we should keep at it.  Many thanks to all the organizers.

Many thanks to you and Nancy. Once again, the facts have been laid out for the Ministry, we can but hope that this time, Officialdom takes notice ... and action.

[Torrens54]

3 hours ago, evenstevens said:

a seminar,is a exchange of words, and  thats the best , in this case, one will ever,  hope to  get out of them, in particular this seminar,which is not the first to be  presented in c/mai,largely  due  to being supported , and organised ,

by the C.E .C. led by their Commander In Cheif

in all ,this particurlar social club is just   a  nice social club, and to be honest a  toothless paper tiger, in securing a better service at c/mai,s immgr dept,

as its their peice of dirt  ,  sure E/S feels a better service should be provided ,but the C/mai,s  immgr  dept,    Is,    What  It   Is,   Full  Stop.

at least this seminar from reports ,was conducted  in a very nice manner, none of the gung ho tactics ,and carpet bombing,of the immgr dept which has been posted on this board,  E/S signs off with,  It Takes Two To  Tangle,  Or Tango,   E/S  sincerely wishes the latter

 

 

Easy to be an "armchair critic ES." 

We all understand these meetings have to date, not achieved much, if anything but at least the "Commander In Chief" as you describe her, took the trouble to attend and make a case for the rest of us.

 

I am not a member of the C.E.C but I do appreciate the efforts of Nancy and her colleagues.

[evenstevens]

beg to differ, to being a armchair critic, E/S at exactly the same time. was at  The Meridian securing a stat dec from our Aussie travelling consulate from B/kok,for my Ret Visa, in anycase,  to be honest, i  had no desire to attend,for many reasons which i will keep to myself,apart from at risk of repeating myself,   The Expats Club is a  toothless paper tiger, in situations to effectively change services, etc etc  at the immgr dept,  they  are a nice social club, thats it, and frankly its not their business at all, leave it to  Expat goverment consulates to sort out things , if needed,   thats why they are here for, is,nt it ??? and are  skilled to be affable and at the same time acheive some common  ground on this  poor service provided by the immgr dept  in C/mai,

 and the proof is in the pudding, when the head of the immgr dept refrained from attending,and sent 2 staffers to represent  him,as he was too busy at that time, please

face the true facts, he neatly sidestepped this seminar(again) as really there was better things to do,then listen to the whims of some, who have over the last couple years, have tried taking his dept down ,with Behind  The   Back  schemes,etc etc, therefore  E/S is for one , who cannot blame him ,for not attending this seminar at all,

 with his absence,the odds are stacked against anything happening in securing a better service at the immgr dept  ,status quao is my call

the above is just my point of view

a very nice morning to alll

 

[Rotweiler]

For years, members here have complained about Thailand Immigration policies and how they are applied; about the reams of paper seemingly required; about intrusive questions being asked of us. 

 

Is Thailand Immigration really any more difficult than the practices of "visitor control" in other counties?

 

Is there a tiger behind the paper?  Has anyone - who met the basic requirements of long-stay in Thailand - actually been deported or refused stay here?

[mania]

19 minutes ago, Rotweiler said:

Is Thailand Immigration really any more difficult than the practices of "visitor control" in other counties?

 

 

I can only answer in regards to the USA & would have to say

in our experience ( wife & I ) Yes Thailand is very much more difficult + ultimately has no upward path for those

that would like to one day be more than a visitor

 

 

A Thai who passes screening & gets a Visa to visit the USA will get a 6 month to visit stamp at most airport entries

They will  NOT have to check in every 90 days etc. Because a better initial check was done at the US embassy where

they obtained a tourist visa...

 

If they got another type of visa like for instance a  fiance visa or are already married to a US citizen

(much like many of us are married to a Thai when we move to Thailand) then........

once they get to the US they can immediately work by filling out a simple work permit & will also get a Social Security number

& yes pay taxes.

 

Their first application to extend stay which is filed & running while they work if they chose  is a 2 year temp residence green card

They are already in the US they will  surely get that 2 yr card unless they lied on the original visa application

 

Now they are good for TWO YEARS PERIOD of hassle free stay

NO checking in nor yearly reports

NO 90 day reports

NO Re-ENTRY PERMITS needed if going home to Thailand for visits during the 2 year card...Just go enjoy your homeland & come

back as long as your still valid your allowed entry (*** on two year card if your gone more than 6 months at a time they will ask if your abandoning temp  residence)

 

At the end of the Two Year Temporary residence card a simple one time form is filed & they are given a  10 year Permanent Residence card

Now they are good for  TEN YEARS

Same as above no further immigration nonsense

(*** Also No worries on how long you stay out of US as it is a permanent residence card )

As I mentioned they can also work if they choose to.

They can renew that 10 year card every 10 years or.....................

 

 

Lastly one year into their 10 year card meaning they

have been in the US for 3 years total....They can apply & upon passing a test get US citizenship

None of this is hard my wife did all of the above in 3 years time.

 

The point about Thailand is once granted a Non Imm visa extension...

what part of their system do they not trust that they need this constant reassurance?

Because it is their system alone asking again & again for redundant information

 

 

[NancyL]

19 hours ago, Thailand said:

We understand and sympathise with your problems and they will be considered and addressed in due course.

 

Does that summarise the seminar?

 

Well, that's being just a bit overly cynical.  After all, a provincial governor convened this meeting (Lampang) and another enthusiastically showed up, listened and had several high ranking members of his staff there.  (Chiang Mai)  Perhaps other provincial governors were there, too, but I don't know the governors of those provinces by sight.  The Thai gentleman who heads the provincial Chamber of Commerce spoke several times, most passionately about the issues faced by foreigners who call Chiang Mai home.  He GETS it!.  And it was evident from their speeches from the floor that several of the foreign consuls understand our concerns very well, too.  The Hon Philippines Consul and in, particular, Ben Svasti, the Hon. British Consul are very conversant with our issues.  The man whose company did the organizational work is also an Hon. Consul and he fully understands our problems.  The provincial representative from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs refused one of the front row seats, saying she wanted to sit at a table so she could take notes, and she made a point to sit next to me, consulting with me upon occasion to see if I agree with points being made by speakers.  

 

Col Rutjapong, the head of CM Imm. was at the seminar for a time in the morning.  The two speakers in the morning spoke at length about long-term strategic plans in progress for attacting more long-stay tourists to the Northern region and those two talks, while interesting, were, frankly, rather tedious and not especially relevant to our needs.  We were given opportunity for some questions after each talk, and after the first talk, which focused on developing the region as a "medical, health and wellness hub", someone politely asked a question about how it could be promoting wellness when retirees have to arrive at Promenada at 3 am, wait in the dark with mosquitoes, to finally leave 12 hours later.  How it promotes wellness for the elderly to have to have the stress of reporting whenever they return from overseas, then every 90 days, then provide the same information every time they visit Imm. with an intrusive form.  Why weren't the problems at Chiang Mai Immigration considered as part of the overall strategy of attracting long-stay tourists who want to come here for "health and wellness".  Well, the speaker, of course, didn't have an answer for that, but I think it gave Col Rutjapong, in the front row of the audience a taste, of what the afternoon would be like when he was suppose to be on the stage, so it was convenient when an emergency developed and he was able to leave and bring in two underlings to take his place.  

 

I think there were many important and highly placed government officials there that heard the message that there is something very, very wrong at Chiang Mai Immigration.  Something that can't be explained by a  lack of manpower.  Perhaps it's simple mismanagement, perhaps something darker.  I hope they act on this.

 

As to the larger issues of competing with Malaysia by offering multi-year visas, eliminating 90 day reports, allowing foreigners to own the land under their primary residence, to contribute to the local community through volunteer activity and to eliminate the horrendous seasonal air pollution problem -- well, these are larger issues that have to be addressed at a national level and require a great deal of political will, that frankly is going to be difficult to muster in the current climate.  But, it would seem the Thai people in that room are in a position to make something happen so that we here in Chiang Mai have the same level of service at our local Immigration office that other foreigners have throughout the country.  And sooner rather than later.  

[Lizard2010]

I also attended the meeting

I heard everything on the day

As was stated in the meeting that they want Chiang Mai and the surrounding provinces to be a Tourist Hub

They have a focus

We have several needs that need to be adressed

We listened then the minister came

We listened to her

Then she listened to us

We can all live here without too much complaining

Chiang Mai immigration has problems

We have suggested  to fix it

We have been told that it will take 18 months for the new Immigration Building to be finished

They also said they will be more changes to the new operation when finished

Hopefully this will have more support for us

It was a pity the immigration head left

 

I have help many people over the years even when coming here as a tourist

I have helped many more since i retired here

I will always help people

This is my nature

So start being positive instead of all these negative

Most of us in the Chiang Mai forum Know who the main ones are

Maybe the moderators need to be more strict

 

I think we have had enough of knocking Nancy

Maybe i should ask the Moderators to close this Post

I have put up with enough of the whiners even from my own country

 

 

[Thailand]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

 

Well, that's being just a bit overly cynical.  After all, a provincial governor convened this meeting (Lampang) and another enthusiastically showed up, listened and had several high ranking members of his staff there.  (Chiang Mai)  Perhaps other provincial governors were there, too, but I don't know the governors of those provinces by sight.  The Thai gentleman who heads the provincial Chamber of Commerce spoke several times, most passionately about the issues faced by foreigners who call Chiang Mai home.  He GETS it!.  And it was evident from their speeches from the floor that several of the foreign consuls understand our concerns very well, too.  The Hon Philippines Consul and in, particular, Ben Svasti, the Hon. British Consul are very conversant with our issues.  The man whose company did the organizational work is also an Hon. Consul and he fully understands our problems.  The provincial representative from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs refused one of the front row seats, saying she wanted to sit at a table so she could take notes, and she made a point to sit next to me, consulting with me upon occasion to see if I agree with points being made by speakers.  

 

Col Rutjapong, the head of CM Imm. was at the seminar for a time in the morning.  The two speakers in the morning spoke at length about long-term strategic plans in progress for attacting more long-stay tourists to the Northern region and those two talks, while interesting, were, frankly, rather tedious and not especially relevant to our needs.  We were given opportunity for some questions after each talk, and after the first talk, which focused on developing the region as a "medical, health and wellness hub", someone politely asked a question about how it could be promoting wellness when retirees have to arrive at Promenada at 3 am, wait in the dark with mosquitoes, to finally leave 12 hours later.  How it promotes wellness for the elderly to have to have the stress of reporting whenever they return from overseas, then every 90 days, then provide the same information every time they visit Imm. with an intrusive form.  Why weren't the problems at Chiang Mai Immigration considered as part of the overall strategy of attracting long-stay tourists who want to come here for "health and wellness".  Well, the speaker, of course, didn't have an answer for that, but I think it gave Col Rutjapong, in the front row of the audience a taste, of what the afternoon would be like when he was suppose to be on the stage, so it was convenient when an emergency developed and he was able to leave and bring in two underlings to take his place.  

 

I think there were many important and highly placed government officials there that heard the message that there is something very, very wrong at Chiang Mai Immigration.  Something that can't be explained by a  lack of manpower.  Perhaps it's simple mismanagement, perhaps something darker.  I hope they act on this.

 

As to the larger issues of competing with Malaysia by offering multi-year visas, eliminating 90 day reports, allowing foreigners to own the land under their primary residence, to contribute to the local community through volunteer activity and to eliminate the horrendous seasonal air pollution problem -- well, these are larger issues that have to be addressed at a national level and require a great deal of political will, that frankly is going to be difficult to muster in the current climate.  But, it would seem the Thai people in that room are in a position to make something happen so that we here in Chiang Mai have the same level of service at our local Immigration office that other foreigners have throughout the country.  And sooner rather than later.  

Kudos for even getting to this point.

Overly cynical but based on what I have heard and read probably not far from a correct summation? 

 

I sincerely hope I am wrong.

[NancyL]

Baby steps, baby steps.  

 

 

[Thailand]

21 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Baby steps, baby steps.  

 

 

No giant leaps for women? 

[Gonzo the Face]

26 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Baby steps, baby steps.  

 

 

 

Strange thought but......ever notice how a newly walking baby  and a really, really oldster, have such a similarity in their gait???  Full circle.......poop in the pants as a baby then as an oldster ....??

 

Life is what you do in the middle years.

[Rotweiler]

A partial answer, but no one has commented on the second part...  that being"

 

" Is there a tiger behind the paper?  Has anyone - who met the basic requirements of long-stay in Thailand - actually been deported or refused stay here?

 

 

4 hours ago, mania said:

 

 

I can only answer in regards to the USA & would have to say

in our experience ( wife & I ) Yes Thailand is very much more difficult + ultimately has no upward path for those

that would like to one day be more than a visitor

 

 

A Thai who passes screening & gets a Visa to visit the USA will get a 6 month to visit stamp at most airport entries

They will  NOT have to check in every 90 days etc. Because a better initial check was done at the US embassy where

they obtained a tourist visa...

 

If they got another type of visa like for instance a  fiance visa or are already married to a US citizen

(much like many of us are married to a Thai when we move to Thailand) then........

once they get to the US they can immediately work by filling out a simple work permit & will also get a Social Security number

& yes pay taxes.

 

Their first application to extend stay which is filed & running while they work if they chose  is a 2 year temp residence green card

They are already in the US they will  surely get that 2 yr card unless they lied on the original visa application

 

Now they are good for TWO YEARS PERIOD of hassle free stay

NO checking in nor yearly reports

NO 90 day reports

NO Re-ENTRY PERMITS needed if going home to Thailand for visits during the 2 year card...Just go enjoy your homeland & come

back as long as your still valid your allowed entry (*** on two year card if your gone more than 6 months at a time they will ask if your abandoning temp  residence)

 

At the end of the Two Year Temporary residence card a simple one time form is filed & they are given a  10 year Permanent Residence card

Now they are good for  TEN YEARS

Same as above no further immigration nonsense

(*** Also No worries on how long you stay out of US as it is a permanent residence card )

As I mentioned they can also work if they choose to.

They can renew that 10 year card every 10 years or.....................

 

 

Lastly one year into their 10 year card meaning they

have been in the US for 3 years total....They can apply & upon passing a test get US citizenship

None of this is hard my wife did all of the above in 3 years time.

 

The point about Thailand is once granted a Non Imm visa extension...

what part of their system do they not trust that they need this constant reassurance?

Because it is their system alone asking again & again for redundant information

 

 

 

[mania]

19 minutes ago, Rotweiler said:

A partial answer, but no one has commented on the second part...  that being"

 

" Is there a tiger behind the paper?  Has anyone - who met the basic requirements of long-stay in Thailand - actually been deported or refused stay here?

 

 

 

 

Sorry but that question does not really compute does it??

 

Basically your asking if anyone ran their marathon & then after successfully crossing  the finish line  was told they are disqualified from the race & please leave the track?

 

But that was never the fear/question from any "legal" long stay person I have met

The question was always more like .........Why after the yearly marathon...

 

Do they then want 90day 10k races ??

Then the entry/re-entry sprints ???

Then the TM28-30 dashes??

 

why after successfully  crossing their marathon finish line yearly do they tell me I need to do another & another...over & over again

 

When it is basically all the same. Would it not be more sane to tell me your good for a year here is your extension & if anything major changes report back.

 

[Rotweiler]

Started drinking early, have you... 

 

The question is simple.  Do you or anytone else in this forum KNOW of a case where a retirement or marriage long-stay individual has been refused an extension and subsequently deported?

 

 

9 minutes ago, mania said:

 

Sorry but that question does not really compute does it??

 

Basically your asking if anyone ran their marathon & then after successfully crossing  the finish line  was told they are disqualified from the race & please leave the track?

 

But that was never the fear/question from any "legal" long stay person I have met

The question was always more like .........Why after the yearly marathon...

 

Do they then want 90day 10k races ??

Then the entry/re-entry sprints ???

Then the TM28-30 dashes??

 

why after successfully  crossing their marathon finish line yearly do they tell me I need to do another & another...over & over again

 

When it is basically all the same. Would it not be more sane to tell me your good for a year here is your extension & if anything major changes report back.

 

Where's that dislike button?

[mania]

10 minutes ago, Rotweiler said:

Started drinking early, have you... 

 

The question is simple.  Do you or anytone else in this forum KNOW of a case where a retirement or marriage long-stay individual has been refused an extension and subsequently deported?

 

 

Where's that dislike button?

 

Sorry not drinking at all.....

 

But I tend to think your question is a non_question

I think most expats on TV forum & especially those complaining about the tasks associated with these things all in fact

are legal.

 

As such of course we would not know of any legal long stay expats who met requirement & were then deported

If we did we would likely all leave under our own steam rather than play the Russian roulette your asking exists or not (of course it does not)

 

Sorry if you dislike that Common sense is at times boring

 

[KhonKaenKowboy]

It appears that there was about fifteen minutes of useful stuff stretched into a day long seminar.....was there also instruction on how to wai and how much you're suppose to give the beggars in the morning?  All style, virtually no substance...TIT.  And some actually asked about a health plan for seniors...an "affordable" one?  Some of the older baby boomers are a lot dumber than their parents were.  Medicare costs the taxpayers close to 35000 THB per person, per month...times 57 million plus....even at 10000 per month very few would participate and most would scream murder.  A lot of these folks need a little more e than a one way ticket home..perhaps a kick in the rear?

[NancyL]

Rotweiler, I think you're missing the point.  Of course, we don't know of anyone who has fully met the requirements for a marriage or retirement extension being deported.  THAT's the POINT!  Why does Immigration continue to harass us long-stayers when it's already been well-documented to them that we're here legally?  They say there isn't enough manpower to add a second person to process retirement extensions at Promenada.  Duh -- that's because they have manpower engaged in meaningless enforcement tasks that are nothing more than paper shuffling of the records of law-abiding foreigners.  Records of data they already have someplace "in their system" or more likely in a box someplace in a warehouse.

 

  

[evenstevens]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

Baby steps, baby steps.

 

 

 

after reading your post #68, in particurlar the second paragraph...Re ,   Col , etc etc

a Ant  step, at  best, is my call

as you have lost your  most important  player, at this point of time, to gain some common ground at this seminar, to provide a better immgr dept services,and  public relations  too,  which surely would benefit all expats living in C/ Mai, now,  or in the future

again , just  E/S point of view

[NancyL]

33 minutes ago, evenstevens said:

 

after reading your post #68, in particurlar the second paragraph...Re ,   Col , etc etc

a Ant  step, at  best, is my call

as you have lost your  most important  player, at this point of time, to gain some common ground at this seminar, to provide a better immgr dept services,and  public relations  too,  which surely would benefit all expats living in C/ Mai, now,  or in the future

again , just  E/S point of view

 

Did you read the article in the "Guardians of our Gates" in the October issue of CityLife magazine http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citylife-articles/guardians-of-our-gates/ ?  That was an interview with the Col's boss, head of the multi-province region.  Boss wasn't exactly supportive nor did he defend the Col's actions of the past few years.  

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

It appears that there was about fifteen minutes of useful stuff stretched into a day long seminar.....was there also instruction on how to wai and how much you're suppose to give the beggars in the morning?  All style, virtually no substance...TIT.  And some actually asked about a health plan for seniors...an "affordable" one?  Some of the older baby boomers are a lot dumber than their parents were.  Medicare costs the taxpayers close to 35000 THB per person, per month...times 57 million plus....even at 10000 per month very few would participate and most would scream murder.  A lot of these folks need a little more e than a one way ticket home..perhaps a kick in the rear?

 

Well, KKK you're your usual crude self, but you normally do have a kernel of truth to what you say.

 

From the standpoint of what most of the expat attendees were hoping to achieve with the seminar, it could have been easily done in 1/2 day.  But there was some value in sitting through several tedious presentations about how various Thai gov't and non-gov't agencies are trying to increase the numbers of people just like us coming and living here.  See, they really do understand that we add to the economy!  They want more of us.  And they're spending big baht having endless meetings talking to each other about how they can get more like us.

 

Yes, I did bring up several times the idea of permitting resident expats to buy into the Thai national health care system at a "reasonable price" because of the difficulty we have in purchasing health insurance once we get above age 70.  You may be aware that, for a very brief time, the Thai "30 baht health scheme" was open to Chiang Mai expats and they were flooded with applications from age 70+ expats in need of medical care.  After about six weeks they closed it down, realizing it wasn't sustainable at 2200 baht/year.  

 

It would be good if they could reopen the issue, and determine a price that makes sense from an actuarial standpoint, with pricing based on age-bands, but operating on the same rules as the regular Thai 30 baht program (i.e. no exclusions for pre-existing conditions)  I suspect the price will be similar to the number you tossed out for someone in their 70s and 80s -- 10,000 baht/month.     

[moe666]

Sine a lot of the pollution in the north comes from other countries why even bring this question up. Issues that the officials may have some control over should be the focus of such a session. We all know that the government is aware of the pollution problem as each and every year there is a big campaign put forward to stop burning.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

18 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

Well, KKK you're your usual crude self, but you normally do have a kernel of truth to what you say.

 

From the standpoint of what most of the expat attendees were hoping to achieve with the seminar, it could have been easily done in 1/2 day.  But there was some value in sitting through several tedious presentations about how various Thai gov't and non-gov't agencies are trying to increase the numbers of people just like us coming and living here.  See, they really do understand that we add to the economy!  They want more of us.  And they're spending big baht having endless meetings talking to each other about how they can get more like us.

 

Yes, I did bring up several times the idea of permitting resident expats to buy into the Thai national health care system at a "reasonable price" because of the difficulty we have in purchasing health insurance once we get above age 70.  You may be aware that, for a very brief time, the Thai "30 baht health scheme" was open to Chiang Mai expats and they were flooded with applications from age 70+ expats in need of medical care.  After about six weeks they closed it down, realizing it wasn't sustainable at 2200 baht/year.  

 

It would be good if they could reopen the issue, and determine a price that makes sense from an actuarial standpoint, with pricing based on age-bands, but operating on the same rules as the regular Thai 30 baht program (i.e. no exclusions for pre-existing conditions)  I suspect the price will be similar to the number you tossed out for someone in their 70s and 80s -- 10,000 baht/month.     

and people commenting on the air quality and traffic?  That's like writing your Congressman about the color of the park benches.....it's not their responsibility.  I was reminded of what my best professor of English taught us in freshman English; keep your topic reasonably narrow, and make your supporting statements to support that topic.  Otherwise, well, you see what happens...Rats, dogs, litter, footpaths.....usually on my mind, when people are telling me where to point my toes...but there is a time and place for everything, and an immigration seminar is clearly not it.

 

I was hoping the seminar would have been successful enough (obviously not) that a lot of us would decide to visit Lampang and show our appreciation to the Governor and the true economic force of our presence.  Well, maybe next time.

[Lizard2010]

It is obvious that the fires around Chiang Mai and the fumes from cars do not effect us

I am in the city and surrounding are a lot

I have to put up with it   NO I Dont

Plus i see there motorbikes and cars belching smoke out of there exhausts

People want to come to a clean and lees pollutant place to live

It only can be achieved if people follow the rules laid done by the Government

This is not happing with the burning

There should  be a act about smoke from exhausts

I bet this is regulated from you country

It is from mine

This was only one issue

It will take many people to enforce the rules

We can not we can only advise what is effecting the Thaia and us

 

 

[Rimmer]

Some posts have been removed that turned into a personal attack on another member, please discuss the topic not other members, thank you 

[hml367]

I think it is a good idea to read the TVF news at the below topic... be sure to go to the linked Chiang Mai Mail story..  It definitely give more information than is in this thread and probably more correct.  

 

 

[NancyL]

Yes, I think Shana's article does a great job of explaining the entire seminar in great detail.  The purpose of the seminar, at least from the perspective of the organizers, was not to give us foreigners a chance to unload all our grievances about Immigration.   Remember the name of the seminar was "Long-stay challenges" and they did want to hear what the top "challenges" are.  So yes, it's appropriate to talk about seasonal air pollution right after mentioning the burdens of the near-constant reporting of our whereabouts to Immigration.  

 

And the Minister of Tourism made it very clear that her ministry is responsible for attracting and retaining us "long stay tourists".  To that end, she has great interest in advocating for things like a 5 year retirement visa and measures to end the seasonal air pollution on a national level because it directly affects her ability to do her job.

[HullyGully]

It is positive that the issues relating to Long Stay Expats have been raised and aired

 

I believe the CEC/ Nancy also did a good job raising the issues

 

However, all our issues are NOT difficult to resolve, "IF YOU WANT TO RESOLVE THEM"

 

I have lived here for 15 years and to date have NOT seen a positive outcome for Long Stay Expats

 

We all know the details with Malaysia M2H program,  what will it take for Thailand to be pro-active and introduce a similar program

 

Probably not in my life time

 

More Asian countries are looking to attract Long Stay Expats, if Thailand does not change they may miss out long term

 

Only the loss of revenue, may push Thailand to move

 

[evenstevens]

my gut feeling is    , that very little with come out of this seminar, perhaps they will throw  out a bone or two, to  quiten down a few restless natives

and at the same time, raise all  related  visa  fees, to pay for those bones

a Corrs  late evening to all