UNESCO passes controversial Jerusalem resolution

[webfact]

UNESCO passes controversial Jerusalem resolution

 

 

PARIS: -- The UN’s cultural body UNESCO has adopted a contentious resolution heavily criticising Israel’s activities at holy sites in East Jerusalem.

 

The motion refers to the area known to Jews as Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif.

 

Israeli officials reacted with fury, claiming the resolution denies the Jewish religion’s deep historical connections to the site.

 

Israel’s UNESCO ambassador Carmel Shama Hacohen accused Palestinians of playing games: 

‘‘We will not negotiate and we won’t take part in this ugly game. There is no place for these games here in UNESCO. This noble organisation was established to preserve the history, not to rewrite it.

 

The Arab-backed resolution condemned Israel for restricting Muslims access to the holy complex in East Jerusalem, and for aggression by Israeli police and soldiers.

 

The Palestinian Deputy Ambassador to UNESCO, Mounir Anastas welcomed the decision: “This resolution just reminds Israel that they are the occupying power in East Jerusalem and it asks them to stop all their violations, especially in the fields of competence of UNESCO.”

 

The holy site, which was taken by Israel in the 1967 six-day war, has been a flash point of Israeli-Palestinian violence in recent years.

 

Israel froze ties with UNESCO last week when the resolution, which was entitled ‘‘Occupied Palestine’‘, was passed at the draft stage. That draft repeatedly used only the Islamic name for the complex, which includes the Western Wall, considered the holiest site in Judaism.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-10-19

[Ulysses G.]

A bunch of hateful Islamic dictatorships criticizing the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. What's new?

[Elfin]

To use the word "democracy" when describing the Israeli form of government is a misnomer. It certainly is not like any other democracy in the world which encourages free speech and free movement. The Israeli government is an unstable fascist occupying power-no less.

Little by little we are making progress against the illegal zionist occupiers. Well done UNESCO!

BDS

[Ulysses G.]

5 minutes ago, Elfin said:

The Israeli government is an unstable fascist occupying power-no less.

 

Amazing how many Arab citizens prefer to live there over the surrounding Arab countries. Of course the haters ignore that.

[Elfin]

But you know Ulysses that the Arabs are not treated as equals to the jews and zionists

 

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe you should tell them that. They much prefer to live in Israel over Arab countries.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/11/26/poll-77-of-israeli-arabs-prefer-israeli-rule-to-palestinian/

[Elfin]

UNESCO is doing the right thing. Have you got something more relevant than 2014 Ulysses?

 

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

A bunch of hateful Islamic dictatorships

Approved at committee stage by 24 votes to 6, with 26 abstentions:

 

For: Algeria, Bangladesh, Brazil, Chad, China, Dominican Republic, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Mauritius, Mexico, Mozambique, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Senegal, South Africa, Sudan and Vietnam.

Against: Estonia, Germany, Lithuania, The Netherlands, United Kingdom and United States.

Abstained: Albania, Argentina, Cameroon, El Salvador, France, Ghana, Greece, Guinea, Haiti, India, Italy, Ivory Coast, Japan, Kenya, Nepal, Paraguay, Saint Vincent and Nevis, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Uganda and Ukraine. Absent were: Serbia and Turkmenistan.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-new-unesco-resolution-on-occupied-palestine/

Not so clear cut a vote as you indicate except the vote Against seems to follow nations whose foreign policy is pro-Israel.

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[notmyself]

That draft repeatedly used only the Islamic name for the complex, which includes the Western Wall, considered the holiest site in Judaism.

 

Israel were right to complain though this is an example of what happens when you constantly cry wolf.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Elfin said:

To use the word "democracy" when describing the Israeli form of government is a misnomer. It certainly is not like any other democracy in the world which encourages free speech and free movement. The Israeli government is an unstable fascist occupying power-no less.

Little by little we are making progress against the illegal zionist occupiers. Well done UNESCO!

BDS

 

Democracies do not come in standardized form. There are also variations in the levels of democracy afforded. Asserting that "any other democracy in the world....encourages free speech and movement" is nonsense. Some of the countries supporting the resolution could serve serve as good examples to counter the claim.

 

The usual OTT commentary does not make the case.

[Morch]

Here's a link to my post from the recent topic, touching on some of the related issues.

[Jingthing]

This resolution is not only anti-Israel but deeply offensive to the Jewish people and the Jewish religion. It denies the absolutely UNDENIABLE in an outrageous way. 

 

The problem is in the OP:

Quote

The motion refers to the area known to Jews as Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif.

But motion intentionally does not include TEMPLE MOUNT (the JEWISH name) in it. 

 

The connection of Jews to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem goes back THOUSANDS of years. Yes, we have a current political conflict in the region. But to deny that history is just horrible wrong in so many ways. So many Jew haters over the centuries have tried and tried to ERASE the Jewish people. So people you can understand that it makes Jews VERY ANGRY (even non-religious Jews) when a supposedly peace promoting international organization intentionally DENIES a basic fact about JEWISH history. 

 

Borders and administration policies about the site are of course open to political debate. REWRITING history and ERASING Jews from history (in this case in the homeland of the Jewish people -- ISRAEL) is NOT open to debate ... it's just hateful and outrageous and must be RESISTED. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

They could have passed a resolution protesting specific things about the site in question regarding Israel's administration of the site, which BTW, includes forbidding Jews to pray there, enforced by Israel. But they didn't. They intentionally tried to wipe away thousands of years of history that are completely 100 percent undeniable ... the JEWISH connection to the Temple Mount. That's just SICK. 

 

I'm still waiting for a RATIONAL (as opposed to Jew hating) defense of this. Using the word occupied is not that defense. How can what's happening with borders and administrative policies today erase undeniable HISTORY? 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Jingthing

[Elfin]

But Morch, to call it a democracy that allows crimes against non-jews to be committed with impunity makes Israel look like a scene out of that 1973 movie Westworld. Like I said, thanks to UNESCO this time,  we slowly chip away at the occupation..............

BDS

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, Elfin said:

But Morch, to call it a democracy that allows crimes against non-jews to be committed with impunity makes Israel look like a scene out of that 1973 movie Westworld. Like I said, thanks to UNESCO this time,  we slowly chip away at the occupation..............

BDS

 

As said, there are many kinds and levels of democracy. Israel may not be the best of the lot, nor does one have to fully accept UG's praise. Then again, nonsense like " allows crimes against non-jews to be committed with impunity" does not add much credibility to a counter argument.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you imagine the UNESCO resolution to be, but it doesn't have any effect on the Israeli occupation. If anything, it will make the Israeli government even more likely to reject any semblance of finding a solution. And, obviously, the same goes for the Palestinian leadership.

[ilostmypassword]

59 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As said, there are many kinds and levels of democracy. Israel may not be the best of the lot, nor does one have to fully accept UG's praise. Then again, nonsense like " allows crimes against non-jews to be committed with impunity" does not add much credibility to a counter argument.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you imagine the UNESCO resolution to be, but it doesn't have any effect on the Israeli occupation. If anything, it will make the Israeli government even more likely to reject any semblance of finding a solution. And, obviously, the same goes for the Palestinian leadership.

You mean it's possible to make the Israeli government more likely to reject any semblance of finding a solution?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean it's possible to make the Israeli government more likely to reject any semblance of finding a solution?

 

Sarcasm aside, yes.

 

There are members of the current Israeli government who are liable to use such Palestinian moves, as reason to harden position or try to get back at the other side. I think there were already some voices among the coalition calling for moves which will defy the UNESCO resolution. Given the race among coalition partners to "prove" who's the most righteous right-wing, thinks often escalate even when it serves no useful purpose.

 

Further, most posters do not realize that parallel to the hot air from both sides, there's actually ongoing contact on multiple levels. A lot of it got to do with making Palestinian everyday life possible. Applying the paragraph above to this reality might result in even greater friction. 

 

Palestinian initiatives such as this do not promote peace. Rather, for many Israelis they simply affirm the notion that Palestinians are not interested in co-existence. Similarly, the one-sided resolution coming from a supposedly neutral and objective international body, will only reinforce the distrust many Israelis feel toward the UN.

 

There were suggestions raised while drafting the resolution, relating to balance, tone and terminology (such as naming of places). These were rejected by the Palestinians and the countries which sponsored the resolution. IMO, the resolution would have garnered more support this way, and would have met with less than wall to wall rejection in Israel. Putting it forth as it is, can be interpreted as nothing that denotes peace seeking intentions, compromise or even acceptance. Both UNESCO chief and the UN Secretary General commented negatively on the resolution.

 

I think one of the HRC emails exposed contained a bit in which she asserted that its better to have a semblance of peace process between the sides over non (or was it over open hostilities?). I tend to agree.

[Jingthing]

 
As said, there are many kinds and levels of democracy. Israel may not be the best of the lot, nor does one have to fully accept UG's praise. Then again, nonsense like " allows crimes against non-jews to be committed with impunity" does not add much credibility to a counter argument.
 
I'm not entirely sure what you imagine the UNESCO resolution to be, but it doesn't have any effect on the Israeli occupation. If anything, it will make the Israeli government even more likely to reject any semblance of finding a solution. And, obviously, the same goes for the Palestinian leadership.

Yes exactly. It's UNESCO telling Israel we hate you so much we're willing to erase your history with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. It will drive Israel further right wing. Why cooperate with an organization acting in such bad faith?

[up-country_sinclair]

11 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Approved at committee stage by 24 votes to 6, with 26 abstentions:

 

For: Algeria, Bangladesh, Brazil, Chad, China, Dominican Republic, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Mauritius, Mexico, Mozambique, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Senegal, South Africa, Sudan and Vietnam.

Against: Estonia, Germany, Lithuania, The Netherlands, United Kingdom and United States.

Abstained: Albania, Argentina, Cameroon, El Salvador, France, Ghana, Greece, Guinea, Haiti, India, Italy, Ivory Coast, Japan, Kenya, Nepal, Paraguay, Saint Vincent and Nevis, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Uganda and Ukraine. Absent were: Serbia and Turkmenistan.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-new-unesco-resolution-on-occupied-palestine/

Not so clear cut a vote as you indicate except the vote Against seems to follow nations whose foreign policy is pro-Israel.

 

 

 

Bravo to those nations which voted  for the resolution!

 

And to the many nations which abstained: May you soon have the courage to vote as your conscience implores you.

[Ulysses G.]

So you are back on them? They were many centuries ago - ancient history (literally). 

[notmyself]

Is it not true?

 

Couple of hundred years when you are willing to go back a few thousand. History cannot be taken a La Carte.

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, up-country_sinclair said:

 

Bravo to those nations which voted  for the resolution!

 

And to the many nations which abstained: May you soon have the courage to vote as your conscience implores you.

 

Doubt that you had a good look at which counties voted for the resolution.

As for those who abstained, for some its actually a shift in the other direction, used to automatically vote for such resolutions as well.

Conscience plays very little role in UN votes.

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

 

Couple of hundred years when you are willing to go back a few thousand. History cannot be taken a La Carte.

 

It WAS a few thousand years and they had been trying to eradicate and plunder ancient Israel from the very birth of Israel.  Your point is not only way off topic, it is not even valid.

[Ulysses G.]

40 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As for those who abstained, for some its actually a shift in the other direction, used to automatically vote for such resolutions as well.

 

 

India for example - a country with 200 million Muslims.

[notmyself]

9 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

It WAS a few thousand years and they had been trying to eradicate and plunder ancient Israel from the very birth of Israel. 

 

Who?

[Ulysses G.]

1 minute ago, notmyself said:

 

Who?

 

 

The ancient peoples that you seem obsessed with for some strange reason - that have nothing to do with this thread.

[notmyself]

1 minute ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

The ancient peoples that you seem obsessed with for some strange reason - that have nothing to do with this thread.

 

If we disregard them then we should disregard Israel's claim to be allowed to exist as a state which is based on something from  thousands of years ago. You can't have you cake and eat it which is what Israel is trying to do to UNESCO. Bibi even admitted it last election.

[notmyself]

We should perhaps discuss this outside of the world news sub-section though.

 

[Ulysses G.]

1 minute ago, notmyself said:

 

If we disregard them then we should disregard Israel's claim to be allowed to exist as a state which is based on something from  thousands of years ago.

 

This is just plain foolish. More ancient history. Israel is an existing state and a very powerful and successful one. The bible does not really matter anymore. There is nothing that people like you can do to change that reality. Please try to stay vaguely on topic.