Is this roof frame welding acceptable? -photos

[carlyai]

 
Cause they don't care if anyone gets hurt, and want to do it as cheaply as possible. Also, the welding you see might not be structural at all. TIT you know safety and standard don't really exist. Just "get it to stick" is all they care about. 

Hi Strange.

I think they do care (or some of them) about their welding. I was really worried about my guy's welding as I have 8 m spans, but in the end they seemed to have pretty good (roof ain't fallen in yet and been nearly 3 years ).

My guy's said they stop and start so they don't burn the incoming house cables down, and I used to believe that, as when you start a new build the power and cable comes from any old plug, with wires pushed into the power outlet.

But everyone does it!

The people working on ThaiItalian Korat would have a good power supply and still they do it.

Isn't it easier to make a long weld, than 5 short welds? Must not be.

Beats me, someone will come up with a better reason, though the lack of eye protection could be another reason.


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[impulse]

Not the same arena, but Thai offshore welders are held in very high regard.  They do beautiful work and we NDT every inch of it.  

 

Of course I can't speak for the home construction welders, but I promise there are a lot of excellent welders from Thailand.  With offshore in the crapper because of low oil prices, there should be some good ones looking for work.  Whether they'll work for what a lot of guys want to pay is another issue.

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

Not the same arena, but Thai offshore welders are held in very high regard.  They do beautiful work and we NDT every inch of it.  

 

Of course I can't speak for the home construction welders, but I promise there are a lot of excellent welders from Thailand.  With offshore in the crapper because of low oil prices, there should be some good ones looking for work.  Whether they'll work for what a lot of guys want to pay is another issue.

 

Yup, Thai Welders everywhere offshore. Good guys and good welders. Another thing that makes them great, they don't complain like everyone else and try to get out of working lol. "Thainess" has good aspects. 

 

Im not a QC guy, I'm a supervisor and they are very good. But the guys I know here in Thailand that weld offshore don't do roadside construction or residential roofing. Completely different arenas for them like a CEO going back to flipping burgers at McDonalds. 

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Yup, Thai Welders everywhere offshore. Good guys and good welders. Another thing that makes them great, they don't complain like everyone else and try to get out of working lol. "Thainess" has good aspects. 

 

Im not a QC guy, I'm a supervisor and they are very good. But the guys I know here in Thailand that weld offshore don't do roadside construction or residential roofing. Completely different arenas for them like a CEO going back to flipping burgers at McDonalds. 

 

No disagreement from me.  I just get tired of people ragging on Thais.  Thailand has great welders, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think.  But they're also smart enough not to work for slave wages.

[Strange]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

No disagreement from me.  I just get tired of people ragging on Thais.  Thailand has great welders, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think.  But they're also smart enough not to work for slave wages.

 

Yep, agreed. But ragging on Thais has some validity sometimes. I think we all do it when we've had enough from the day to day nonsense. 

 

A lot of times, people that rag on Thailand all the time have to think about the company they hold. It would be like any working class westerner with a good income moving to a trailer park in the USA because "Cheap" and "Lady take care good" then bash and hate cause its a hassle. 

 

Thailand does have great welders and they are in high demand. The experienced ones offshore I know here make $6000-$7000 USD/Month and like to stay for 120-180 days in a row. They wouldn't even care about foreigners in their day to day lives lol. Probably tired of being around us offshore.  

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

Thailand does have great welders and they are in high demand. The experienced ones offshore I know here make $6000-$7000 USD/Month and like to stay for 120-180 days in a row. They wouldn't even care about foreigners in their day to day lives lol. Probably tired of being around us offshore.  

 

Totally off topic, but I'd pay cash money to see the response if you posted those numbers in one of the more visible forum sections.  I suspect a lot of the guys would gasp so hard they'd blow beer through their nose.  Then it would be off to the races...

[carlyai]

Why do they start and stop, start and stop their weld?

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[vogie]

4 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Why do they start and stop, start and stop their weld?

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If the metal is hollow, they would have to be careful not to get it too hot and blast the metal away.

[carlyai]

Ok great, thank you.

As most of the metal they weld here for houses is hollow, then this explains it?

Is this then the tried and tested method for welding?



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[Strange]

Just now, carlyai said:

Why do they start and stop, start and stop their weld?

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Hey Carl, 

 

Dude there are a lot of reasons why. If you want to get all technical & stuff, it should not happen. 

 

When talking about local guys that are welding rebar on roadworks and fellas welding up your roof support, its all about rod size and fit-up (if your power supply is good)

 

I can only speak from what I have seen, and its all about fit. Its not possible to gap fill with shitty welding machines and old ass rods and a wide ass gap. The rod tip is an electrical connection.

A horizontal flat weld is easy because of gravity, you can gap fill easily. Vertical and Overhead is a lot harder and requires technique as gravity is pulling the filler away from where you want it. 

 

To put it bluntly, if the power supply is good, and time is taken to fit the pieces correctly, then there should be no start-stop. 

 

IF you do not want to see start-stop, and you are working with thin metal, its got to be a 100% flush butt-weld and a person that can weld it in all positions. 

 

You tube this subject. Its deep, and there is an entire profession dedicated to it. 

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Ok great, thank you.

As most of the metal they weld here for houses is hollow, then this explains it?

Is this then the tried and tested method for welding?



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Yes, on thick metal it does not matter, you can do constant runs, but thinner metals require more skill. With the mask on you can see the metal getting white hot and at this stage it is time to remove the welding rod and let it cool for a second before continuing the weld. 

[Strange]

Just now, vogie said:

Yes, on thick metal it does not matter, you can do constant runs, but thinner metals require more skill. With the mask on you can see the metal getting white hot and at this stage it is time to remove the welding rod and let it cool for a second before continuing the weld. 

 

Thick metal does matter. Thin metal does matter. Its all about penetration. 

 

Thick metal will behave the same as thin if the right rod size is used. 

 

You should not ever have to pull the rod away to cool. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Hey Carl, 

 

Dude there are a lot of reasons why. If you want to get all technical & stuff, it should not happen. 

 

When talking about local guys that are welding rebar on roadworks and fellas welding up your roof support, its all about rod size and fit-up (if your power supply is good)

 

I can only speak from what I have seen, and its all about fit. Its not possible to gap fill with shitty welding machines and old ass rods and a wide ass gap. The rod tip is an electrical connection.

A horizontal flat weld is easy because of gravity, you can gap fill easily. Vertical and Overhead is a lot harder and requires technique as gravity is pulling the filler away from where you want it. 

 

To put it bluntly, if the power supply is good, and time is taken to fit the pieces correctly, then there should be no start-stop. 

 

IF you do not want to see start-stop, and you are working with thin metal, its got to be a 100% flush butt-weld and a person that can weld it in all positions. 

 

You tube this subject. Its deep, and there is an entire profession dedicated to it. 

 

Strange you obviously know more than me, who has welded for most of my life and has city and guilds in welding, I will say no more on the subjects and leave it to the experts!

[Crossy]

4 hours ago, Strange said:

Thailand does have great welders and they are in high demand. The experienced ones offshore I know here make $6000-$7000 USD/Month and like to stay for 120-180 days in a row. They wouldn't even care about foreigners in their day to day lives lol. Probably tired of being around us offshore.  

 

It's the same with electricians, the really good ones are working the mega-projects or off-shore and earning excellent coin, none of the ones I know would be seen dead doing a domestic or even small-industrial installation.

 

Our entire tunneling crew on Bangalore metro was Thai, they were superb at what they did and got remuneration to suit. They even had a couple of Thai chefs imported specially, unfortunately both were katoeys and caused all sorts of issues with the locals by strutting around in short skirts and heels. There were several police raids on the "brothel" that was being operated in the canteen.

 

[Strange]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Strange you obviously know more than me, who has welded for most of my life and has city and guilds in welding, I will say no more on the subjects and leave it to the experts!

 

Im no expert, just had to prove my welds on mild steel like Impulse was talking about with NDT. Went to school & stuff. Been around it since I was a kid. 

 

You should speak on the subject cause you are not wrong at all. In the states (in my arena) when we weld stuff, its not about code but making it stick and proving it. 

 

You are right, thin metal is a pain in the dick and requires technique. But as you know its a multifaceted deal. The hood is a given if you want a good weld. 

 

You are not wrong at all. 

[carlyai]

 
Im no expert, just had to prove my welds on mild steel like Impulse was talking about with NDT. Went to school & stuff. Been around it since I was a kid. 
 
You should speak on the subject cause you are not wrong at all. In the states (in my arena) when we weld stuff, its not about code but making it stick and proving it. 
 
You are right, thin metal is a pain in the dick and requires technique. But as you know its a multifaceted deal. The hood is a given if you want a good weld. 
 
You are not wrong at all. 

 
Cause they don't care if anyone gets hurt, and want to do it as cheaply as possible. Also, the welding you see might not be structural at all. TIT you know safety and standard don't really exist. Just "get it to stick" is all they care about. 

 
Totally off topic, but I'd pay cash money to see the response if you posted those numbers in one of the more visible forum sections.  I suspect a lot of the guys would gasp so hard they'd blow beer through their nose.  Then it would be off to the races...

Takes me awhile....but I think I've got it.

So if you have shitty rods, shitty equipment and you see the metal is getting white hot, you break the arc so you don't blow a hole in the metal.

Have I got it?

(patience, patience, for us geriatric mob).

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[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Im no expert, just had to prove my welds on mild steel like Impulse was talking about with NDT. Went to school & stuff. Been around it since I was a kid. 

 

You should speak on the subject cause you are not wrong at all. In the states (in my arena) when we weld stuff, its not about code but making it stick and proving it. 

 

You are right, thin metal is a pain in the dick and requires technique. But as you know its a multifaceted deal. The hood is a given if you want a good weld. 

 

You are not wrong at all. 

 

Thank you, I've heard that Mig and Tig are a complete kettle of fish, never tried it, so I would never comment on the ins and outs of the process. However stick welding requires lots of practice and more importantly 'know how' You will never ever weld fresh air, the metals must be touching, if not a fillet is generally inserted. The rods in Thailand I don't believe are the greatest of quality, so even extra care is needed.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, carlyai said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Takes me awhile....but I think I've got it.

So if you have shitty rods, shitty equipment and you see the metal is getting white hot, you break the arc so you don't blow a hole in the metal.

Have I got it?

(patience, patience, for us geriatric mob).

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you have got it, but if you gave Tiger Woods some shitty golf clubs his game would still be very good. My welder was the cheapest here in Thailand, but it still does a good job. What you will need though is a good slagging hammer to remove the slag after each weld, in the UK it fell off itself, but not here, that is why I would question the rods.

[Anythingleft?]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes you have got it, but if you gave Tiger Woods some shitty golf clubs his game would still be very good. My welder was the cheapest here in Thailand, but it still does a good job. What you will need though is a good slagging hammer to remove the slag after each weld, in the UK it fell off itself, but not here, that is why I would question the rods.

The welders are just not good because they are not true welders, all the good coded welders work for fabrication centers and offshore and get very good salaries

Can't imagine that the regs are very stringent from the work that I have seen on the bridges where I am based so the "welders" will be anybody that can strike an arc

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

The welders are just not good because they are not true welders, all the good coded welders work for fabrication centers and offshore and get very good salaries

Can't imagine that the regs are very stringent from the work that I have seen on the bridges where I am based so the "welders" will be anybody that can strike an arc

 

Does not mean that they are shitty welders. That joker you see booger welding? Might be real good but using shit equipment & rods with non existent guidelines. 

[Anythingleft?]

Just now, Strange said:

Does not mean that they are shitty welders. That joker you see booger welding? Might be real good but using shit equipment & rods with non existent guidelines.

Nonsense, a good welder can weld most things with the most base equipment and supplies. Plenty have been watched by me but sadly never emulated as my pigeon droppings are testament and I am fairly sure the guidelines to the bridge work and steel reinforcing layers is to just get it hold until the concrete comes

 

[carlyai]

Is there a brand of rod you would recommend in Thailand?

If you've had the rods for a while....how long before you give them to your brother in law (unless he has borrowed them beforehand).

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[Strange]

Just now, carlyai said:

Is there a brand of rod you would recommend in Thailand?

 

6010, 6011, 6013, 7018

 

All good rods and have a different use and technique. These are not "brands". 

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

8 minutes ago, Strange said:

Does not mean that they are shitty welders. That joker you see booger welding? Might be real good but using shit equipment & rods with non existent guidelines.

Nonsense, a good welder can weld most things with the most base equipment and supplies. Plenty have been watched by me but sadly never emulated as my pigeon droppings are testament and I am fairly sure the guidelines to the bridge work and steel reinforcing layers is to just get it hold until the concrete comes

 

Thats cool. I understand. I wouldn't work for you though. 

 

"watched by me"

 

Naa. Dont need a spectator.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Is there a brand of rod you would recommend in Thailand?

If you've had the rods for a while....how long before you give them to your brother in law (unless he has borrowed them beforehand).

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Don't buy them from a builders merchant or the like, you don't know how long they have been on the shelf. The first lot I purchased was from them and were very difficult to strike up. The next lot I bought was from a shop in Rayong similar to a Home Pro, they were far better. As for size, they don't appear to stock the smaller sizes here. 

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Don't buy them from a builders merchant or the like, you don't know how long they have been on the shelf. The first lot I purchased was from them and were very difficult to strike up. The next lot I bought was from a shop in Rayong similar to a Home Pro, they were far better. As for size, they don't appear to stock the smaller sizes here. 

 

The smaller sizes are harder to find, but I just sent a guy some surplus 1.6mm 6013 I've had laying around for a while.  And I bought some 2.0mm 308 stainless rod from Lazada- 2 day delivery.  I'll restock on the 1.6mm at the Metalex trade show at BITEC in late November.  The shop is in Silom or Sathorn here in BKK but I binned their business card so I don't have the exact address- I never actually went to the shop- once or twice a year at Metalex works out well.

[Anythingleft?]

 

23 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Is there a brand of rod you would recommend in Thailand?

Like the last gents said, try to use a place that has a good turnover to get fresh stock

 

I'm more interested in the original OP as to why the supporting post is not supporting anything or very little anyway. Big column to have a little bit of tack weld placed on the top rebar and off to the side to make it even more interesting

[Anythingleft?]

20 minutes ago, Strange said:

Thats cool. I understand. I wouldn't work for you though.

Doubtful that you have a skill that would make you desirable from the look of your posts

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎20‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 7:48 PM, Strange said:

 

Solution? 

Spend some money and get a welder that actually knows how to weld. It's usually easy enough to pick the good ones- they use a proper welding shield so they can see what they are doing. The cowboys either use dark glasses or nothing.

However, if you want to spend peanuts you will get ................

[Xircal]

On 10/20/2016 at 2:34 PM, samuijimmy said:

You can view images in colour by right clicking and view in new tab... (until we get colour back)

 

 

That's a handy tip. I never knew about that one.