Yamaha Xmax 300 coming to Thailand?

[HeyNow]

1 hour ago, Fat Prophet said:

The Xmax has fallen into the toilet now that the new Forza is out -- absolutely no comparison between the two

Interesting! I'm one of those who have been waiting to see if Honda would answer with an update to the Forza. On paper, the two bikes seem very comparable but I'm still leaning toward the Xmax as it seems to have the edge in terms of raw performance. Would you mind sharing what it is you like better about the Forza vs. the Xmax? 

 

At least on paper I see the following pros for each:

 

• Xmax 
  • More power (292 cc, 27.6 hp, 29 Nm torque vs. 279 cc/24.8 hp/27.1 Nm)
  • Lighter (4kg, 179 kg vs. 183 kg, this despite the Xmax carrying more fuel)
  • Larger brakes (267 mm front, 245 mm rear vs. 256 mm/240 mm)
  • 13.1 L fuel (vs. 11.5 L)
  • A bit cheaper (168,000 vs. 169,000)
  • Illuminated underseat storage
  • 2 storage areas under the front console (vs. 1 on the Forza)
• Forza
  • Narrower (754 mm vs 775 mm) for easier filtering
  • Shorter wheelbase (1510 mm vs 1540 mm) for a tighter turning radius
  • Lower seat (780mm vs 795 mm), though being tall, I'd prefer a higher seat.
  • Electronic windshield
  • Folding mirrors with LED turn signals
  • Fancier dash
  • A bit easier to service since Honda dealerships are so ubiquitous.
  • Potentially higher resale value

There are a couple other potential pros to each, but I haven't been able to find enough data online to be sure of them. Yes, I have researched this to death and then some. 

 

My take so far is that the new Forza's definitely a big improvement over the old, but a lot of the changes seem to be in the bells and whistles. I mean, folding mirrors, electronic windshield, seriously? I'd rather that Honda used standard stuff and trimmed the price by a couple thousand baht. In contrast, the Xmax differs in ways that affect the actual performance of the bike. But again, this is all on paper and I have yet to ride either one. So I'd definitely be willing to hear from someone whose (strong) preference is for the Forza.

Edited April 27, 2018 by HeyNow

[CMKiwi]

I look forward to seeing the new forza as the old one looks like a bloated pig.

 

Possibly why in part the XMAX is so attractive.

 

I haven't been surprised by what Honda puts out lately. ...it's all rather conservative/boring.

 

Don't get me wrong...I love Hondas but the opposition are taking them to task in a lot of areas.  Pity it's not in the after sales servicing and parts tho

[Badrabbit]

Obviously this fat person works for Honda, sad that they feel the need to try and bad the Xmax!!

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ttrd]

On ‎27‎.‎04‎.‎2018 at 1:28 PM, HeyNow said:

Interesting! I'm one of those who have been waiting to see if Honda would answer with an update to the Forza. On paper, the two bikes seem very comparable but I'm still leaning toward the Xmax as it seems to have the edge in terms of raw performance. Would you mind sharing what it is you like better about the Forza vs. the Xmax? 

 

At least on paper I see the following pros for each:

 

• Xmax 
  • More power (292 cc, 27.6 hp, 29 Nm torque vs. 279 cc/24.8 hp/27.1 Nm)
  • Lighter (4kg, 179 kg vs. 183 kg, this despite the Xmax carrying more fuel)
  • Larger brakes (267 mm front, 245 mm rear vs. 256 mm/240 mm)
  • 13.1 L fuel (vs. 11.5 L)
  • A bit cheaper (168,000 vs. 169,000)
  • Illuminated underseat storage
  • 2 storage areas under the front console (vs. 1 on the Forza)
• Forza
  • Narrower (754 mm vs 775 mm) for easier filtering
  • Shorter wheelbase (1510 mm vs 1540 mm) for a tighter turning radius
  • Lower seat (780mm vs 795 mm), though being tall, I'd prefer a higher seat.
  • Electronic windshield
  • Folding mirrors with LED turn signals
  • Fancier dash
  • A bit easier to service since Honda dealerships are so ubiquitous.
  • Potentially higher resale value

There are a couple other potential pros to each, but I haven't been able to find enough data online to be sure of them. Yes, I have researched this to death and then some. 

 

My take so far is that the new Forza's definitely a big improvement over the old, but a lot of the changes seem to be in the bells and whistles. I mean, folding mirrors, electronic windshield, seriously? I'd rather that Honda used standard stuff and trimmed the price by a couple thousand baht. In contrast, the Xmax differs in ways that affect the actual performance of the bike. But again, this is all on paper and I have yet to ride either one. So I'd definitely be willing to hear from someone whose (strong) preference is for the Forza.

RE - Potentially higher resale value (Forza)

 

This remains to see, BUT I have my Clear doubts due to X-Max's higher performance, larger brakes, longer travel distance, larger Storage capacity and last but not least the smart key system which make it less attractive to steal it makes the X_Max for me a Clear winner both as New and as well 2-nd hand ..

[uwe_rayong]

23 hours ago, ttrd said:

RE - Potentially higher resale value (Forza)

 

This remains to see, BUT I have my Clear doubts due to X-Max's higher performance, larger brakes, longer travel distance, larger Storage capacity and last but not least the smart key system which make it less attractive to steal it makes the X_Max for me a Clear winner both as New and as well 2-nd hand ..

 

 

I think both scooters will have a very good resale value, main target group in Thailand are Thais - and they often do prefer Honda.

 

Is the smart key system on the X-Max in any way superior to the Smart Key on the Forza?

 

I saw an ad that the Forza even locks the Top Box (if it is the Honda "Smart" Box) automatically via the Smart Key System.

 

If I would buy a scooter today, I would buy the Honda. I like it more.

Who cares if the resale value is 10.000 THB more or less in the next 2-3 years? 

 

 

 

 

[ttrd]

On ‎30‎.‎04‎.‎2018 at 11:43 AM, uwe_rayong said:

 

 

I think both scooters will have a very good resale value, main target group in Thailand are Thais - and they often do prefer Honda.

 

Is the smart key system on the X-Max in any way superior to the Smart Key on the Forza?

 

I saw an ad that the Forza even locks the Top Box (if it is the Honda "Smart" Box) automatically via the Smart Key System.

 

If I would buy a scooter today, I would buy the Honda. I like it more.

Who cares if the resale value is 10.000 THB more or less in the next 2-3 years? 

 

 

 

 

Luckily the taste is like the bum and that fact make the world  a colorful and interesting place to be....

[papa al]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:09 PM, Fat Prophet said:

The Xmax has fallen into the toilet now that the new Forza is out -- absolutely no comparison between the two; how another Yamaha can become totally outdated in such a short time. I expect that there is or soon will be horrendous regret from those people with "years of experience" who were so foolish to buy an Xmax before waiting for the new Forza -- the tears are falling like rain. I expect that there will be all kinds of responses (excuses) from "proud" Xmax owners trying to justify their huge mistake, but we should pity them rather than blame them, as such justification is normal in the face of such an irreversible (and obvious) blunder. Oh well, better luck (and foresight) next time. My new Forza is on order and will be delivered in a few weeks -- "thank God!" I didn't succumb to the temptation to buy a Xmax, just because it was available. 

yes...thank Buddha !!

 

[idman]

Opinions are like ass...holes, everybody has one as the above poster is proof positive.  I am the proud owner of an Xmax, I did the side by side specs comparsion and in each and every one the Xmax was superior to the Forza.  But, to each his own.

[Fat Prophet]

12 hours ago, idman said:

Opinions are like ass...holes, everybody has one as the above poster is proof positive.  I am the proud owner of an Xmax, I did the side by side specs comparsion and in each and every one the Xmax was superior to the Forza.  But, to each his own.

As I said in my earlier post "I expect that there will be all kinds of responses (excuses) from 'proud' Xmax owners trying to justify their huge mistake, but we should pity them rather than blame them, as such justification is normal in the face of such an irreversible (and obvious) blunder. Oh well, better luck (and foresight) next time." They have started..... It would be far better to stick to the merits/demerits of the XMax and the Forza (as other helpful posters have done in response to my earlier post) rather than name calling (which really doesn't make your claim any more convincing/correct; rather the contrary), but, "to each his own...." You stand "pitied", and not "blamed" (at least not too much).

 

You did a side-by-side comparison of the specs of the XMax with the specs of the OLD Forza. The specs of the new Forza are very different, which is part (but a small part) of my point -- you did a comparison (as shown in your earlier posts) with something yet unknown -- congratulations on your illusory paper chase, nice job! But my real point is that comparing specs on paper is a great exercise if all you want to do is sit at your desk and know that your motorbike is 4 kgs lighter or has brakes that are 12 mm larger or holds 1.6L more fuel (comparison of the XMax with the new Forza), but for most thoughtful/intelligent people (put me (and my @ss...hole) in that category), the real issues in making a motorbike a "better choice" are actual performance, reliability, service/after sale support, appearance and, perhaps, resale value (in that order)(I personally don't care about resale value as I seldom sell anything).

 

The actual performance of the old Forza IMO was/is very good (I own one and a CTX, among others); the new Forza is a tremendous improvement -- spectacular; the performance of the XMax is good (maybe very good, but not as good as the new Forza, but certainly better than the old Forza. Before you talk more about "specs" , rent a Forza and actually ride it (wow, there's a thought!) -- you will convince yourself. 

 

On reliability, they are probably very close, with some concern about each being a new model, which comes with issues. But in the past, with the old Forza, Honda took every possible step to correct design issues, even replacing the entire rear wheel assembly when problems arose. I do not think that Yamaha backs up its products to the same degree, case in point, the Tri-city.

 

There is absolutely no comparison between the service, service network and after sale support of Honda in relation to Yamaha in Thailand -- this is patently obvious and without dispute.

 

And, except for the color choices of both bikes, which are poor, the appearance (including the bells and whistles, which on a new bike make it a lot more "fun" (isn't that what riding is all about anyway?)) is in a totally difference class than the XMax -- it (meaning the new Forza, lest you try to misread my statement) is stunning -- I love the mirrors, they add a real touch of class (and if they also add a few thousand Baht to the price, no problem; well worth it)! The Xmax is too upright and erect (you might like that (if you need an explanation, PM me)) and lacks any "flare" whatsoever, and the "flaps" on the front forks look about as stupid as anything I have seen on a motorbike. Who designs these things (and who is the intended audience) -- kids in primary school?? So, as I said in my first post, with the new Forza now available, the XMax is toast. Sorry if you don't like or cannot handle the obvious truth. Your post is predictable, unnecessary insults and all. Sorry to pour salt on your wounds. Next.....

Edited May 4, 2018 by Fat Prophet
fixed typo

[Fruit Trader]

Holy moly, so much hot air over two models of hair dryer. Handbags at dawn is the only way to settle this toy box dispute.

[HeyNow]

1 hour ago, Fat Prophet said:

 

You did a side-by-side comparison of the specs of the XMax with the specs of the OLD Forza.

 

Actually, those are the specs of the new Forza, pulled directly from the AP Honda website and other sources. 

 

You're right that it's all on paper for the moment, and I said as much in my post. Comparing numbers is a part of learning about the bikes, not the whole. I'm eagerly awaiting the opportunity to test ride both bikes before deciding. 

 

In regard to correcting design issues, I have only anecdotal evidence on that. Friends in both camps whose bikes have been recalled (e.g. the CB300F, the R3) and both companies did a good job contacting them and fixing the problems. Personally, I've had very good experiences with Nat Motors up on Huay Kaew. Overall, Honda has a big leg up, just by virtue of the sheer number of service centers they have.

 

I  agree that those "flaps" are weird looking and don't do anything for the look of the Xmax and overall, I think the bike could us a bit more contour. To my eyes, the Forza goes in the opposite direction and has too much contour. But to each his own.

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by HeyNow

[observer90210]

Thailand is a backward country as many new goodies released worldwide arrive here after a few years....at 3 times the price !!!

[HeyNow]

On 4/30/2018 at 11:43 AM, uwe_rayong said:

 

 

I think both scooters will have a very good resale value, main target group in Thailand are Thais - and they often do prefer Honda.

 

Is the smart key system on the X-Max in any way superior to the Smart Key on the Forza?

 

I saw an ad that the Forza even locks the Top Box (if it is the Honda "Smart" Box) automatically via the Smart Key System.

 

If I would buy a scooter today, I would buy the Honda. I like it more.

Who cares if the resale value is 10.000 THB more or less in the next 2-3 years? 

 

 

 

 

The top box functionality is pretty cool, but I wonder if that top box would really be available here at a reasonable price. I'm doubtful of either.

 

It doesn't look like there's any significant difference between the two smart key systems, except Honda looks a bit nicer. 

 

I agree that resale value is a relatively minor point. I certainly wouldn't buy this or the Forza with the intention of selling any time soon. It's just something to consider, alongside many other factors.

[Fat Prophet]

1 hour ago, HeyNow said:

Actually, those are the specs of the new Forza, pulled directly from the AP Honda website and other sources. 

 

You're right that it's all on paper for the moment, and I said as much in my post. Comparing numbers is a part of learning about the bikes, not the whole. I'm eagerly awaiting the opportunity to test ride both bikes before deciding. 

I was not talking about the specs in your post or about your post more generally, which I liked and found informative/useful. Indeed, I used your spec quotes to make the spec comparison between the new Forza and the XMax in my last post. I was referring to the specs given by idman in an earlier post (#31) of his, where he compares the specs of the XMax with the specs of the OLD Forza, and further comparisons of the XMax and the Forza based on specs and/or riding  of the old Forza (see posts #177 and #215). And, based on earlier posts, he had bought the XMax by 10 January '18, before specs of the new Forza were even available. So, his statement that "I did the side by side specs comparsion (sic) and in each and every one the Xmax was superior to the Forza", at least in terms of his decision to buy the XMax, was based on specs of the OLD Forza -- kind of a worthless/meaningless/misguided effort in terms of a decision to buy, especially knowing that a new model is coming very soon.

 

But, more basically, basing a decision on which bike to buy on "specs" alone is foolish, and may have little relationship to performance or enjoyment of the bike. And, it is great that a current XMax owner still likes his bike and enjoys riding it. I still enjoy riding my old Forza and I enjoyed riding my PCX 125 after the new PCX 150 came out. But, in terms of the decision to buy a new bike today, few people will see anything about a XMax that would justify buying it instead of a new Forza, especially if they ride both first. The NMax and the new PCX are very comparable, and there are a lot of good things about each bike that could encourage a particular rider to choose one or the other -- horses for courses. That is not the case with the XMax and the new Forza.  The XMax is toast (frankly, I expect that this fact will not go unnoticed by Yamaha, and I expect that it will come out with an "updated" XMax in the next 6/12 months to put it on a more even keel with the new Forza. Both are very good at copying (and in some cases exceeding/advancing) the other's successes). Thanks. 

[Badrabbit]

New Forza poor underseat space can't even get a full face helmet in there, remote locking top box is not available for Forza in Thailand, and the uppy downy wind shield is just more to go wrong, Xmax for me!

 

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Badrabbit]

The top box functionality is pretty cool, but I wonder if that top box would really be available here at a reasonable price. I'm doubtful of either.
 
It doesn't look like there's any significant difference between the two smart key systems, except Honda looks a bit nicer. 
 
I agree that resale value is a relatively minor point. I certainly wouldn't buy this or the Forza with the intention of selling any time soon. It's just something to consider, alongside many other factors.

Smart top box is not available for the Forza in Thailand, as told to me by dealer today!

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MrJ]

anybody know if the original Yamaha comfort seat is available in Thailand?

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by MrJ

[Leatherneck]

Thinking about buying a Xmax 300 but was quoted 13,300 ThB for 1st Class insurance for a year at my local Yamaha shop. Seemed quite high to me. Anyone heard of or have lower insurance costs for a XMax?

[colin123]

I have an Xmax 300 with 1st class insurance.

 

3500 Baht ish 

 

AA insurance broker in Pattaya

[MrJ]

this is 3rd party not 1st class insurance - 3.5k

 

I have it too with MSIG

[colin123]

On 9/2/2018 at 11:35 AM, MrJ said:

this is 3rd party not 1st class insurance - 3.5k

 

I have it too with MSIG

Sorry Read the wrong part!

The policy it is 9800 Baht.

1st class

3rd party liability 300,000 person, 10 000 000 accident

Own Damage

130,000 Deductable 10 000

Theft & Fire

130,000

Medical 50 000

Bail Bond 1500 000

[MrJ]

Any owner replaced the belt already? It’s recommended at 20k km, I have 15k so far but it feels slipping already..........

 

 

[moe666]

any extra noise and vibration as well. Change it out you never know the quality of what you got. I have a pcx and my last belt change came sooner than usual.

[ttrd]

RE - Changing belt

 

* The procedure are quite simple - unfortunately the video is not English neither has it eng sub, but anyhow the quality of the visually presentation is quite good so it's easy to understand … 

 

 

[moe666]

The most expensive thing is the belt, take it to a shop and let them do it .

[Agusts]

Why do you say and think the belt is slipping or faulty...!? It could be CVT clutch or damage to variators or variator plates or some other things...!

 

The only time you really know if it's belt is when it snaps, happened to me once, and then it's obvious...

 

If you think something is wrong need to open everything and check all parts - probably best by a good mechanic... also a bad one just opens and show you and tell you a lot of things are bad, change those and it is just a waste of time and money... again I had that too...!

 

Good luck.

[moe666]

6 minutes ago, Agusts said:

Why do you say and think the belt is slipping or faulty...!? It could be CVT clutch or damage to variators or variator plates or some other things...!

 

The only time you really know if it's belt is when it snaps, happened to me once, and then it's obvious...

 

If you think something is wrong need to open everything and check all parts - probably best by a good mechanic... also a bad one just opens and show you and tell you a lot of things are bad, change those and it is just a waste of time and money... again I had that too...!

 

Good luck.

The belt will stretch and also wear  there by reducing proper grip on the varator. I have 35,000k on my PCX which includes some long all day rides in the heat. I have never had a problem with any other part just the belt. But hay ever scooter is different.

[Agusts]

9 minutes ago, moe666 said:

The belt will stretch and also wear  there by reducing proper grip on the varator. I have 35,000k on my PCX which includes some long all day rides in the heat. I have never had a problem with any other part just the belt. But hay ever scooter is different.

Sure belt goes bad too, but I wondered how you can tell without opening and examining it... !? General vibration, feeling of slipping or lack of power, odd noises, and so on, could be many other things too...

 

In fact I will be interested to know if there is a sure sign or symptom that can be for sure due to only bad belt..!? When my belt snapped at 80kph on highway it was a bit scary, but there was absolutely no sign of any issues prior to the incident... (it was a rented 125cc scooter, so I had no idea about it's service history etc.). 

[ttrd]

9 hours ago, MrJ said:

Any owner replaced the belt already? It’s recommended at 20k km, I have 15k so far but it feels slipping already..........

 

 

It looks like you have the signs for a worn belt:

 

Symptoms

Worn belts will sometimes slip. This is pretty easy to detect as the way the motorcycle accelerates won't be in sync with your throttle.

 

Another good indicator is a noticeable loss in power, or a lower top speed. Worn belts tend to sink deeper into the pulleys, effectively changing your gear ratios and reducing the power transmitted.

 

Sometimes however, it can suddenly snap with little warning. This can happen in particularly dusty or debris-filled environments. It can also happen if the belt replacement is overdue.

 

Finally, there are rare occurrences when rocks or other debris can penetrate the transmission housing and damage the belt.

 

READ more:

 

https://www.motopinas.com/motorcycle-feature/what-to-do-when-your-drive-belt-snaps.html

 

[MrJ]

Update - just back from my 15k km service, belt and cvt weights have been worn and been replaced, as well break pads front and back, 2 air filter changed, break fluid, engine transmission oil and filter 

 

runs as new - all great for a bill of 4.480 THB (incl. 300 thb labour) Mityon South Pattaya Road service station