May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[sandyf]

So despite what was said at the time,the Nissan deal is not really a 'done deal'.

 

" Speaking to reporters at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Nissan chief executive Carlos Ghosn said the company trusted the Prime Minister’s assurance, but added that the firm would want to “re-evaluate the situation” once the final Brexit deal is concluded. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nissan-letter-no-money-davos-theresa-may-a7538391.html

[maxtwo]

I have just exchanged my next 3 months of GBP to THB and lost a lot but it is a small price to pay to dump the loser of the EU.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

So despite what was said at the time,the Nissan deal is not really a 'done deal'.

 

" Speaking to reporters at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Nissan chief executive Carlos Ghosn said the company trusted the Prime Minister’s assurance, but added that the firm would want to “re-evaluate the situation” once the final Brexit deal is concluded. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nissan-letter-no-money-davos-theresa-may-a7538391.html

 

When the deal was cut, the UK's continued membership of the Single Market was still on the table and would have been a core reference point.

[dick dasterdly]

On 1/22/2017 at 1:53 PM, dick dasterdly said:

I'm still wondering how they have all these accurate statistics, bearing in mind voting is anonymous?

 

Presumably its based on demographics rather than actual information about how individual voters, voted?

 

22 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

They ask people; Panel Methodology

 

Then weight the responses to reflect the demographics of the population as a whole; Research Q&A's

 

 

 

21 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

The claim is that on balance, a higher proportion of tertiary educated people voted to remain, as did a higher proportion of younger people. A higher proportion of people with school only qualifications voted to leave.

 

No one claimed that no people with tertiary education qualifications voted to leave. And no one claimed that no young people voted to leave, nor that many people with school only qualifications voted to stay.

 

Are you stating that the above is untrue?  It's true that we don't have a definitive number, but that does not in itself mean that the claims are untrue.

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Thank you for explaining nicely. I failed ?

7by7 explained (without anyone saying he was wrong, so I assume correctly) how these statistics are calculated.  Basically, YouGov find a group of 800,000 adults that agree to participate in their surveys and then extrapolate the results of this group to the population as a whole - if I understand correctly.

 

I'd question just how representative are people that agree to participate in surveys?  Edit - on the basis that I've always said 'no' when strangers ask if I would mind answering a few questions, and assume most others can't be bothered to waste their time this way either?

 

AlexRich then stated what we already know - 'it is claimed that etc. etc.' - but in answer to AlexRich's post, I've no idea whether the claims are true or not.

 

It comes as no suprise to read Grouse thanking Alex answering my query "nicely",  as he failed at coming up with a nice response !

 

7by7's post answered my query - Alex's just re-stated the 'it is claimed' response that I was questioning....

 

I hope this post isn't considered off-topic as I'm only responding to other posts.

Edited January 23, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[jpinx]

27 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

7by7 explained (without anyone saying he was wrong, so I assume correctly) how these statistics are calculated.  Basically, YouGov find a group of 800,000 adults that agree to participate in their surveys and then extrapolate the results of this group to the population as a whole - if I understand correctly.

 

I'd question just how representative are people that agree to participate in surveys?  Edit - on the basis that I've always said 'no' when strangers ask if I would mind answering a few questions, and assume most others can't be bothered to waste their time this way either?

 

AlexRich then stated what we already know - 'it is claimed that etc. etc.' - but in answer to AlexRich's post, I've no idea whether the claims are true or not.

 

It comes as no suprise to read Grouse thanking Alex answering my query "nicely",  as he failed at coming up with a nice response !

 

7by7's post answered my query - Alex's just re-stated the 'it is claimed' response that I was questioning....

 

I hope this post isn't considered off-topic as I'm only responding to other posts.

Opinion and other polls have been famously wrong - especially on the referendum result for example - so it is not easy to know who to believe anymore.  Postings in TVF claiming this, that or the other "fact" is confirmed by this, that or the other survey, poll, whatever is at best just clickbait, but possibly baiting their contradictors into more extremities of their views.  There is precious little actual debating in here, which is a shame because some of the contributors actually have illuminated some gloomy corners of how this whole performance is being conducted.  Certainly I have received some friendly and interesting information from posters who do not share my view, but who enjoy the conversations.  Here's hoping for more of that, and less of the mindless, blinkered rhetoric.

[Grouse]

And then you go on in the last post to repeat that " Everyone that I socialise with around world is reasonably well read and the vast majority agree with me. The fools! ?"

 

That was an ironic comment! Have you no humour whatever?

 

BTW, when learning statistics, remember that a Poisson distribution is nothing to do with EU fishing quotas ?

 

Now, please can we give it a break? I've made my point; feel free to disregard it.

[dick dasterdly]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And then you go on in the last post to repeat that " Everyone that I socialise with around world is reasonably well read and the vast majority agree with me. The fools! ?"

 

That was an ironic comment! Have you no humour whatever?

 

BTW, when learning statistics, remember that a Poisson distribution is nothing to do with EU fishing quotas ?

 

Now, please can we give it a break? I've made my point; feel free to disregard it.

Great deflection!  Argue that one point raised was humorous - and the poster responding must have no sense of humour to miss this.

 

Not that it matters as I've no doubt you'll post again in the near future about the unintelligent and uneducated - even though you carefully avoided the point about applauding Alex for answering 'nicely' my post, when he did nothing of the sort and then went on to admit that you couldn't have answered as 'nicely'.....  Edit - although to be fair, you did come up with your idea of a joke revolving around the French word for fish .

 

Meanwhile and back on topic, as stated in my last post -  "May has stated the obvious - 'We're ready for tough talks, and are would rather accept no agreement, than a 'punishment' agreement (or words to that effect)".

Edited January 23, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Great deflection!  Argue that one point raised was humorous - and the poster responding must have no sense of humour to miss this.

 

Not that it matters as I've no doubt you'll post again in the near future about the unintelligent and uneducated - even though you carefully avoided the point about applauding Alex for answering 'nicely' my post, when he did nothing of the sort and then went on to admit that you couldn't have answered as 'nicely'.....  Edit - although to be fair, you did come up with your idea of a joke revolving around the French word for fish .

 

Meanwhile and back on topic, as stated in my last post -  "May has stated the obvious - 'We're ready for tough talks, and are would rather accept no agreement, than a 'punishment' agreement (or words to that effect)".

Please drop it now

 

I honestly don't want to make you feel bad.

 

I will leave you alone now as you REALLY don't get it and I don't think you will any time soon....

[SheungWan]

The Supreme Court decision is issued tomorrow Tuesday. After the announcement, any forum member who begins their contribution with the words 'I don't understand why........'  should pay the penalty of a round of Chang to the rest of us who are obliged to read it.

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

7by7 explained (without anyone saying he was wrong, so I assume correctly) how these statistics are calculated.  Basically, YouGov find a group of 800,000 adults that agree to participate in their surveys and then extrapolate the results of this group to the population as a whole - if I understand correctly.

 

I'd question just how representative are people that agree to participate in surveys?  Edit - on the basis that I've always said 'no' when strangers ask if I would mind answering a few questions, and assume most others can't be bothered to waste their time this way either?

 

AlexRich then stated what we already know - 'it is claimed that etc. etc.' - but in answer to AlexRich's post, I've no idea whether the claims are true or not.

 

It comes as no suprise to read Grouse thanking Alex answering my query "nicely",  as he failed at coming up with a nice response !

 

7by7's post answered my query - Alex's just re-stated the 'it is claimed' response that I was questioning....

 

I hope this post isn't considered off-topic as I'm only responding to other posts.

 

So, are you saying that it is untrue to state that a majority of people with lower levels of education voted to leave? And it's untrue to state that a higher portion of tertiary level educated people voted to stay?

 

If so, that means the opposite was true ... can you show any survey that would back that up? There are plenty that suggest you would be wrong, including Lord Ashcroft's website ... and he's a Brexit supporter.

 

You're in danger of mirroring holocaust deniers .... I mean, no definitive record was made of the number of Jewish people executed ... so perhaps that wasn't true either? 

 

 

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The Supreme Court decision is issued tomorrow Tuesday. After the announcement, any forum member who begins their contribution with the words 'I don't understand why........'  should pay the penalty of a round of Chang to the rest of us who are obliged to read it.

Terrific!

[nontabury]

On January 21, 2017 at 8:28 PM, 7by7 said:

 

Those of us who live in the UK are directly affected by a fall in the pound.

 

A weak pound means imported goods are more expensive.

 

The UK imports more than half it's food. These imports will became more expensive leading to price rises in the shops.

 

The rise in fuel prices will mean a rise in the cost of transporting goods, imported or not, to the shops; leading to a rise in prices.

 

I'm old enough to remember this: 19 November 1967: Harold Wilson’s ‘pound in your pocket’ little white lie

 

 

Are you sure imported foods will be more expected? How about they become cheaper,when the UK is not restricted from where it must import from.

Edited January 23, 2017 by nontabury

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Great deflection!  Argue that one point raised was humorous - and the poster responding must have no sense of humour to miss this.

 

Not that it matters as I've no doubt you'll post again in the near future about the unintelligent and uneducated - even though you carefully avoided the point about applauding Alex for answering 'nicely' my post, when he did nothing of the sort and then went on to admit that you couldn't have answered as 'nicely'.....  Edit - although to be fair, you did come up with your idea of a joke revolving around the French word for fish .

 

Meanwhile and back on topic, as stated in my last post -  "May has stated the obvious - 'We're ready for tough talks, and are would rather accept no agreement, than a 'punishment' agreement (or words to that effect)".

 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Please drop it now

 

I honestly don't want to make you feel bad.

 

I will leave you alone now as you REALLY don't get it and I don't think you will any time soon....

Know exactly what you mean .

 

But please feel free to 'make me feel bad' by countering with a proper argument rather than just saying-

"I honestly don't want to make you feel bad. I will leave you alone now as you REALLY don't get it and I don't think you will any time soon...." 

 

Off-topic though - so a pm would probably be better.

Edited January 23, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

47 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

So, are you saying that it is untrue to state that a majority of people with lower levels of education voted to leave? And it's untrue to state that a higher portion of tertiary level educated people voted to stay?

 

If so, that means the opposite was true ... can you show any survey that would back that up? There are plenty that suggest you would be wrong, including Lord Ashcroft's website ... and he's a Brexit supporter.

 

You're in danger of mirroring holocaust deniers .... I mean, no definitive record was made of the number of Jewish people executed ... so perhaps that wasn't true either? 

 

 

"  but in answer to AlexRich's post, I've no idea whether the claims are true or not".

 

As posted previously.

[uptheos]

At least May goes to meet Trump knowing the pound is rising against the greenback.

 

The pound hit a five-week high against the dollar on Monday (23 January), as the greenback weakened amid increasing concerns over Donald Trump's protectionist rhetoric.

Having ended last week on a downbeat note, sterling climbed as high as $1.2470, the highest level since mid-December, before retreating slightly over the course of the session. By early afternoon, the pound remained 0.60% higher against the dollar, trading at $1.2448, and was also 0.35% higher against the euro, buying €1.1594.

[7by7]

24 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

Are you (7by7) sure imported foods will be more expected? How about they become cheaper,when the UK is not restricted from where it must import from.

I'm talking about now; not in two or more years time.

 

On your next food shop, have a look at the country of origin; many products come from outside the EU.

In fact, more than half of our food imports come from outside the EU; from Your food is global

Where the UK’s food comes from. Image: Defra

 

Wherever we import our food from, a weak pound will make imports more expensive.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed along with reply.   I very strongly suggest members stop with the inflammatory personal remarks and stay on topic. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, uptheos said:

At least May goes to meet Trump knowing the pound is rising against the greenback.

 

The pound hit a five-week high against the dollar on Monday (23 January), as the greenback weakened amid increasing concerns over Donald Trump's protectionist rhetoric.

Having ended last week on a downbeat note, sterling climbed as high as $1.2470, the highest level since mid-December, before retreating slightly over the course of the session. By early afternoon, the pound remained 0.60% higher against the dollar, trading at $1.2448, and was also 0.35% higher against the euro, buying €1.1594.

Yes, interesting. I wonder if USA issues are trumping U.K. Issues. No doubt some of our forex specialists will have an opinion?

[SheungWan]

The De Keyser Hotel and Royal Prerogative. How a World War 1 case beautifully illustrates the issues up before the Supreme Court:

https://greatwarlondon.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/de-keyser-a-london-hotel-and-the-royal-prerogative/

 

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, interesting. I wonder if USA issues are trumping U.K. Issues. No doubt some of our forex specialists will have an opinion?

If the Supreme Court rules against the UK government then sterling is going up.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The De Keyser Hotel and Royal Prerogative. How a World War 1 case beautifully illustrates the issues up before the Supreme Court:

https://greatwarlondon.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/de-keyser-a-london-hotel-and-the-royal-prerogative/

 

Well I learnt something today! great stuff 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The De Keyser Hotel and Royal Prerogative. How a World War 1 case beautifully illustrates the issues up before the Supreme Court:

https://greatwarlondon.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/de-keyser-a-london-hotel-and-the-royal-prerogative/

 

Something I thought intuitive but great to see a legal precedent.

However, as UK follows common law, that case doesn't necessarily bind the Supreme Court in how it rules.

We'll see soon.

[sandyf]

The real brexit winners.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/shell-dividends-11-billion-2016-uk-companies-helped-by-brexit-a7541946.html

[sandyf]

Brexiteers claimed they did not want to be dominated by the EU but they consider it perfectly acceptable for the UK government to dominate NI and Scotland.

In her speech TM said the strength of the UK lay in the strength of the Union, she has taken the United out of the Kingdom.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-irish-politicians-prepare-to-block-eu-withdrawal-if-supreme-court-rules-stormont-a7542276.html

[sidgy]

 
The claim is that on balance, a higher proportion of tertiary educated people voted to remain, as did a higher proportion of younger people. A higher proportion of people with school only qualifications voted to leave.
 
No one claimed that no people with tertiary education qualifications voted to leave. And no one claimed that no young people voted to leave, nor that many people with school only qualifications voted to stay.
 
Are you stating that the above is untrue?  It's true that we don't have a definitive number, but that does not in itself mean that the claims are untrue.
 
 

If the statement that majority of young people voted remain,and majority of older people voted leave, would this not also fit the more educated/less educated argument also. Back in my day,very few people went to university whereas today every man and his dog attends. Does this mean the youth of today are better educated? Probably. Does it mean they are more intelligent? Does it F...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, sidgy said:

If the statement that majority of young people voted remain,and majority of older people voted leave, would this not also fit the more educated/less educated argument also. Back in my day,very few people went to university whereas today every man and his dog attends. Does this mean the youth of today are better educated? Probably. Does it mean they are more intelligent? Does it F...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

... maybe it's that young people are more tolerant of different nationalities, and don't have a memory of some golden age in the UK that never existed. Perhaps they realise that the UK needs a larger population to maintain funding for things like pensions, NHS, and care for the elderly, the financial burden of which will fall on them. The vote was about immigration, period. Now those same young people will be going back to the 1970's, thanks to the vote of the older, "wiser" generation, many of whom won't be alive to see the mess. 

 

Referendums are just opinion polls ... like opinion polls they can be wrong but are not as easily reversible. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

26 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The vote was about immigration, period. Now those same young people will be going back to the 1970's, thanks to the vote of the older, "wiser" generation, many of whom won't be alive to see the mess. 

Where are these migrants supposedly coming from? The birth rate in Germany is 1.38, in Italy 1.4, in France barely 2.0 - there just aren't enough migrants to go around for everybody. And I assume you have absorbed the comments of that leading Remainer, Mark Carney, who said last week "the EU has more to lose from a hard Brexit than Britain" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/eu-has-lose-hard-brexit-uk-mark-carney-says/

[Laughing Gravy]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Referendums are just opinion polls ... like opinion polls they can be wrong but are not as easily reversible

 Thank you for the most hilarious thing I have heard all year. I suppose elections are like a raffle.

[sandyf]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

 Thank you for the most hilarious thing I have heard all year. I suppose elections are like a raffle.

The fact that there has only ever been 3 national referendums in the UK is a fairly good indication of how useful they are to UK politics.

The first 2 were merely a confidence boost for government policy and then David Camerons ego screwed up the 3rd opinion poll.

[SaintLouisBlues]

18 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Supreme Court decision is issued tomorrow Tuesday. After the announcement, any forum member who begins their contribution with the words 'I don't understand why........'  should pay the penalty of a round of Chang to the rest of us who are obliged to read it.

Make mine a treble