May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

53 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Salaries are a red herring ... the people that come here for, for example, fruit and vegetable picking will not be replaced by locals ... except perhaps at a very high price that would put the farm out of business ... in which case the farm will be out of business (even less tax revenue, more unemployment) and we will be buying from overseas farmers (who employ overseas workers). 

 

We can all get back to being ripped off by a local plumber, who charges £100 just to show up at your door!

 

Better to work on improving the education system to get more young people into value added jobs that by their very nature pay more ... and let foreign workers take the manual jobs that we don't appear to want to do. At some point we might find that robotics take these jobs ... so let's get our people equipped for that future.

 

 

Salaries are not a red herring.

 

When I was young, my mother and other women (from poor Brit. families) picked fruit/veg etc. to supplement the family income.  But I agree that this has largely or entirely been taken over by immigrants from poor countries....

 

Weirdly, all those years ago - farmers didn't go out of business because they didn't have a source of even cheaper, immigrant labour .

 

But I do agree about plumbers!  They possess skills that are required.  My 'beef' is with uncontrolled immigration of unskilled people primarily, and secondly importing skilled people being as a reason to cut down expenditure on training our own skilled people.  e.g. doctors and nurses.

Edited April 30, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[AlexRich]

55 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Salaries are not a red herring.

 

When I was young, my mother and other women (from poor Brit. families) picked fruit/veg etc. to supplement the family income.  But I agree that this has largely or entirely been taken over by immigrants from poor countries....

 

Weirdly, all those years ago - farmers didn't go out of business because they didn't have a source of even cheaper, immigrant labour .

 

But I do agree about plumbers!  They possess skills that are required.  My 'beef' is with uncontrolled immigration of unskilled people primarily, and secondly importing skilled people being as a reason to cut down expenditure on training our own skilled people.  e.g. doctors and nurses.

 

Yes, farmers did not go out of business but the "family shop" took up a much bigger proportion of our monthly income than it does now ... as everything was relatively more expensive than it is today. The consumer of today will simply demand cheaper food from abroad, something that would not have been as easy to do in the past. We'll put our own farmers out of business and our expenditure will go overseas. Our young people need to be educated in order to prepare them for the jobs of the future ...and not put back into the fields.  

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Depends if the rent was extortionate !  50 billion for instance.

There is no 'depends' about it, running away without paying is unacceptable behaviour. Reasonable people would discuss the matter and come to some arrangement.

Of course it is all academic to those without principle.

[Johnyo]

Wow , how on earth can anybody vote for this woman. Is she even human?

Strong and stable and blah blah blah and national security and blah blah blah.

Very good at not answering questions though.




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[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

Wow , how on earth can anybody vote for this woman. Is she even human?

Strong and stable and blah blah blah and national security and blah blah blah.

Very good at not answering questions though.




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Dare we ask to whom will you be casting your vote, go on give us a laugh?

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're missing the point that salaries have fallen as a consequence of the number of immigrants from poor countries.  Of course employers are happy to pay as little as possible for unskilled staff, and this continues up the 'salary chain'.

 

Its reached the point where state benefits are required to top-up salaries for many people!

 

Something went seriously wrong, and allowing uncontrolled immigration from poor countries was one of the things that 'went seriously wrong' IMO.

 

I think a main problem is that the effects of automization/computerization are being felt.  This has and will continue to erode the job market.  The market model we see as the norm is a blip in civilized history.  Wealth inequality has always been the norm and will worsen imo.

 

 

[Johnyo]

Dare we ask to whom will you be casting your vote, go on give us a laugh?

 

I have never voted and never will. I have zero faith in politicians.

 

 

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[sandyf]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Salaries are not a red herring.

 

When I was young, my mother and other women (from poor Brit. families) picked fruit/veg etc. to supplement the family income.  But I agree that this has largely or entirely been taken over by immigrants from poor countries....

 

Weirdly, all those years ago - farmers didn't go out of business because they didn't have a source of even cheaper, immigrant labour .

 

But I do agree about plumbers!  They possess skills that are required.  My 'beef' is with uncontrolled immigration of unskilled people primarily, and secondly importing skilled people being as a reason to cut down expenditure on training our own skilled people.  e.g. doctors and nurses.

When I was young very few adults picked fruit and veg, it was mainly children as they were paid a lot less. In the summer months I used to pick raspberries and strawberries for one old penny a punet(1 lb of fruit), you would work all day and be lucky to make a bob. At least we never went hungry. They haven't had to worry about sourcing fruit pickers for quite some time now, climate change has wiped out all the fruit farms in that area.

In the autumn it was potatoes, big money, 5  bob a day or £2 if you were an adult. We used to get 2 weeks off school for the 'tattie' holidays. Fortunately it is all done by machine now.

In our area the farmers never needed cheap immigrant labour, always plenty of children around.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Johnyo said:

 

I have never voted and never will. I have more faith in politicians.


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I don't really know how you can criticise someone who votes, when you don't. 

We have 3 choices Tim but dim, Albert Steptoe and a lady who appears to be a great statesperson.

What do you mean by "I have more faith in polititicians"

[Johnyo]

I don't really know how you can criticise someone who votes, when you don't. 
We have 3 choices Tim but dim, Albert Steptoe and a lady who appears to be a great statesperson.
What do you mean by "I have more faith in polititicians"

I meant to say I have no faith in politicians. You are free to vote and I'm free not to vote and watching Teresa May in the video I posted earlier should stop everyone from voting. The woman is a disgrace.


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[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Salaries are a red herring ... the people that come here for, for example, fruit and vegetable picking will not be replaced by locals ... except perhaps at a very high price that would put the farm out of business ... in which case the farm will be out of business (even less tax revenue, more unemployment) and we will be buying from overseas farmers (who employ overseas workers). 

 

We can all get back to being ripped off by a local plumber, who charges £100 just to show up at your door!

 

Better to work on improving the education system to get more young people into value added jobs that by their very nature pay more ... and let foreign workers take the manual jobs that we don't appear to want to do. At some point we might find that robotics take these jobs ... so let's get our people equipped for that future.

 

 

But those better paid jobs are becoming increasingly rare due again to automation.  This is a thing that effects not only manual workers, in fact the fiddly jobs in the fields are probably safe.

 

Sad fact is that many millions of people, some highly qualified, are essentially useless in an economic sense. 

 

The only interim solution, more temporary damage limitation, is a yearly subsistance hand out to all, which frees people up to find extra work at the paultry wages that will become the norm.  I think this is being piloted in Finland, parts of Canada, and I think a suburb of Glasgow is considering it.  Such a scheme might allow British workers to take the low paid fruit picking jobs for instance.

 

What Britain seems to be doing is to create a low wage, low tax, low regulation/low rights  economy with reduced social welfare.  It is a pragmatic solution to a beginning massive shift in global circumstances.  Its terrible of course.

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

I have never voted and never will. I have zero faith in politicians.

 

 

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A wise man.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

I meant to say I have no faith in politicians. You are free to vote and I'm free not to vote and watching Teresa May in the video I posted earlier should stop everyone from voting. The woman is a disgrace.


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And I put it to you again, if we don't vote for TM, who do we vote for, somebody has to run the country you know?

Edited April 30, 2017 by vogie

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

And I put it to again, if we don't vote for TM, who do we vote for, somebody has to run the country you know?

 

If none of the choices is appetizing to a person, they are not obliged to vote!

In itself, not voting is a valid protest vote.

[Johnyo]

And I put it to again, if we don't vote for TM, who do we vote for, somebody has to run the country

I don't think politicians are necessary to run the country. That is just the way the system is set up but with an efficient administration it could run just as efficiently. Spain didn't have a government for nearly 12 months and the country didn't disintegrate. However if I had to vote I would vote for the Greens.


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[vogie]

Just now, mommysboy said:

 

If none of the choices is appetizing to a person, they are not obliged to vote!

In itself, not voting is a valid protest vote.

By Theresa Mays majority, it would indicate your statement doesn't ring true. It would seem she is very popular, but not by you it seems.

[Johnyo]

And I put it to you again, if we don't vote for TM, who do we vote for, somebody has to run the country you know?

 

 

 

 

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[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But those better paid jobs are becoming increasingly rare due again to automation.  This is a thing that effects not only manual workers, in fact the fiddly jobs in the fields are probably safe.

 

Sad fact is that many millions of people, some highly qualified, are essentially useless in an economic sense. 

 

The only interim solution, more temporary damage limitation, is a yearly subsistance hand out to all, which frees people up to find extra work at the paultry wages that will become the norm.  I think this is being piloted in Finland, parts of Canada, and I think a suburb of Glasgow is considering it.  Such a scheme might allow British workers to take the low paid fruit picking jobs for instance.

 

What Britain seems to be doing is to create a low wage, low tax, low regulation/low rights  economy with reduced social welfare.  It is a pragmatic solution to a beginning massive shift in global circumstances.  Its terrible of course.

 

There is nothing certain about this future you have outlined, we need to focus on the education of our populace on the industries of the future ... it is not inevitable that people will be left with nothing or soul destroying manual labour. But in order to do that we need strength in our universities and research facilities together with a strong and growing economy ... not waste a decade or more trying to adapt to a post-Brexit and discouraging the best academics from settling here ... wanting to see a few less foreigners on the streets comes at a heavy price ... on a lighter note just read that Sunderland fc have been relegated .. perhaps there is a God after all? 

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

If none of the choices is appetizing to a person, they are not obliged to vote!

In itself, not voting is a valid protest vote.

If you don't care for the direction of Brexit vote for someone who opposes it ... and that rules out Corbyn or May. So it's either the Liberals or SNP.

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

By Theresa Mays majority, it would indicate your statement doesn't ring true. It would seem she is very popular, but not by you it seems.

 

Doesn't it? Why?

 

If a person does not like any of the choices, or is disillusioned with the system as a whole he has a perfect right not to vote.

 

You and many millions like May, and see a value in voting.  I see myself as one of the increasingly large underclass and no party is able or willing to solve my problems.  Therefore, I will not vote.

 

(For the record, I am at root a dyed in the wool labour voter but see them as a shambles.  I like May who is a great statesman and a strong leader.  Nevertheless, her party is essentially responsible for creating and perpetuating the Brexit mess imo.)

 

 

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

There is nothing certain about this future you have outlined, we need to focus on the education of our populace on the industries of the future ... it is not inevitable that people will be left with nothing or soul destroying manual labour. But in order to do that we need strength in our universities and research facilities together with a strong and growing economy ... not waste a decade or more trying to adapt to a post-Brexit and discouraging the best academics from settling here ... wanting to see a few less foreigners on the streets comes at a heavy price ... on a lighter note just read that Sunderland fc have been relegated .. perhaps there is a God after all? 

What are those industries?  Why won't they essentially be automated?

 

(Sunderland had it coming.  That it was my own team that put the final nail in the coffin makes me feel a tad rotten)

[Johnyo]

By Theresa Mays majority, it would indicate your statement doesn't ring true. It would seem she is very popular, but not by you it seems.

Marr, intelligently, probed her about the neglect of education under the tories, but what May won't say is that she wants an ignorant population that she can manipulate. The tories have shaped their policies around keeping the working class ignorant and gullible, so that they can feed them with slogans, lies and fear of foreigners and benefit from their destructive social policies. And the saddest thing is that, even if those most affected watched her this morning embarrassing herself, they will go on —like sheep to the slaughter— and vote for her.


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[nontabury]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What are those industries?  Why won't they essentially be automated?

 

(Sunderland had it coming.  That it was my own team that put the final nail in the coffin makes me feel a tad rotten)

so are you from MIDDLESBROUGH or HULL?

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

so are you from MIDDLESBROUGH or HULL?

Bournemouth.

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What are those industries?  Why won't they essentially be automated?

 

(Sunderland had it coming.  That it was my own team that put the final nail in the coffin makes me feel a tad rotten)

I suspect automation, technology, science development, environmental science, pharmaceuticals, etc ... moving further away from manual labour. Subjects that require an intelligent workforce ... but unfortunately the UK is falling behind on that score.

 

As for Sunderland ... they were the first to vote in large numbers for Brexit despite having large foreign based employers that serve Europe. Their demise has a poetic ring to it.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Bournemouth.

 

A retirement haven on the south coast ... did it vote heavily for Brexit?

 

 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

I have never voted and never will. I have zero faith in politicians.

 

 

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Then don't complain if people vote for TM or ANY politician that in your own words above say

 

"I have zero faith in politicians."

 

You don't have faith in politicians yet you come up with nothing to replace them with.

[Johnyo]

 
Then don't complain if people vote for TM or ANY politician that in your own words above say
 
"I have zero faith in politicians."
 
You don't have faith in politicians yet you come up with nothing to replace them with.

I can complain if I want. It's not my fault all candidates and party's are self serving egomaniacs that could not care about people in the slightest or do you think it's morally right to vote for a party that treats disabled people with complete disdain? OK I will offer an alternative and will vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Party



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[mommysboy]

15 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

A retirement haven on the south coast ... did it vote heavily for Brexit?

 

 

The only surprise was it wasn't 99% leave.  Also staunch blue monkeys.

 

Count Totals for Bournemouth

The total number of ballot papers counted was	91998
The number of votes cast in favour of REMAIN was	41473
The number of votes cast in favour of LEAVE was	50453
The number of ballot papers rejected was as follows:-
No official mark	0
Both answers voted for	31
Writing or mark by which the voter could be identified	1
Unmarked or void for uncertainty	39
The total number of ballot papers rejected was	71
The turnout was	69.3%

 

 

 

 

[mommysboy]

19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I suspect automation, technology, science development, environmental science, pharmaceuticals, etc ... moving further away from manual labour. Subjects that require an intelligent workforce ... but unfortunately the UK is falling behind on that score.

 

As for Sunderland ... they were the first to vote in large numbers for Brexit despite having large foreign based employers that serve Europe. Their demise has a poetic ring to it.

Artificial intelligence will increasingly replace even an intelligent workforce.

 

Still, all those millions are needed to consume.

 

Human ingenuity should not be underestimated.  It looks like Blighty will be one big Butlins- everyone on holiday, and on a very tight budget.