May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

And everyone that voted to leave understood exactly what would be involved.

 

Theresa May has taken the extremely unusual step of doubling the length of the next parliamentary session, in recognition of the volume and complexity of the Brexit related legislation that will have to pass through it to prepare the country for its exit from the European Union.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/queens-speech-last-2019-parliament-term-double-one-two-years-brexit-eu-negotiations-theresa-may-a7795386.html

It's just to avoid another Queen's speech / vote of confidence. She doesn't want to snuggle up to the malodorous DUP again!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

UK welfare authorities already exist and are not normally concerned with trade barriers.

Or fire barriers.

[nauseus]

Just now, Grouse said:

Or fire barriers.

That was not very nice! I'm glad it's happy hour now!

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Doctor Death again! The ultimate remedy to literally kill Brexit!

 

The kids who I referred to are the ones that actually understand the origins of the EEC/EC/EU and what it really is. They were able to show some intelligence and not stupidity (your word). They gave me a bit of hope for the future of the country. 

Going people give me some hope on Brexit, but unfortunately they are drifting towards Corbyn's phony socialist dogma ... a double disaster for the UK. And not all Tories support Brexit, the majority of MPs do not. They recognise that it will be a disaster.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

 

Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

The piece, found here, is well worth reading but also falls victim to classic mansplaining of a complex issue with many words wasted on prose that most politicians would be proud of, working around the subject rather than delving in to the heart of it.

Of course, that’s for a very good reason, because at the heart of the vote to leave the European Union is an entanglement of lies and propagandist sensationalism that even the most brave souls wouldn’t dare admit to.

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02

 

We've done the brexit campaign lies argument to death. Just for balance, no lie was worse than Osborne's threat to take £3000 per annum off every family in the country if we voted leave.

Two wrongs do not make right...

 

Fact is I am sure public opinion is now for Single Market and Customs Union, and it was what Gove and the Blond dimwit promised Vote Leave voters by citing the Norway model.

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html

 

But it's aaall over now.....

 

Guitar 1
e|-----3---------1----------0----------2-----------|
B|-------3---------1----------1----------3---------|
G|-----------------------------------2-----2-------|
D|------------------------2-----2--0---------------|
A|---2-----2---3-----3--3--------------------------|
E|--3--------1-------------------------------------|

Edited June 18, 2017 by Grouse

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html

 

But it's aaall over now.....

I am not so sure, but possibly a legal challenge on the validity given the the amount of untruths told during campaigning, but There again I think a lot of Brits are getting feed up with referendums and elections. 

[Grouse]

From the newstatesman

 

"We are walking backwards into the 1950s – with the grim DUP clinging to the fraying rope of heterosexual supremacy and a Conservative Party still snogging Ukip even though it’s dead "

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/06/where-are-we-now-after-election-writers-reflect-what-happens-next

Edited June 18, 2017 by Grouse

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

I am not so sure, but possibly a legal challenge on the validity given the the amount of untruths told during campaigning, but There again I think a lot of Brits are getting feed up with referendums and elections. 

The legal challenge you describe is now not  possible , due to the amount of time elapsed . During the Gina Millar court case , an interested party was considering bringing such action but decided to pursue other avenues

[evadgib]

David Davis heads to Brussels tomorrow with a clear message: we are leaving the European Union

[Grouse]

On the Sunday Politics, Nicola Horlick said Germany does seven times more trade with China than we do! Why is that? Will Brexit help us somehow? I don't think the tea/opium business will work ?

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

That was not very nice! I'm glad it's happy hour now!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html

 

Perhaps, in future, it would be best to lead with a phrase like:  'what us extreme right tories want is...'

 

Clearly, your opinions no longer reflect the views of the majority of the electorate.

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html

 

Perhaps, in future, it would be best to lead with a phrase like:  'what us extreme right tories want is...'

 

Clearly, your opinions no longer reflect the views of the majority of the electorate.

Clearly, I was replying to Grouse. And clearly, you are hypnotized by The Independent (not the most relevant name for this publication)! 

[Scott]

A post suggesting that someone is paid to post has been removed.   Doing so again, without some supporting evidence will earn a suspension.  

[AlexRich]

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

 

Read this ... and weep! Sums up the Brexit disaster quite succinctly. 

[AlexRich]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-4614114/former-M-S-boss-says-NO-deal-NOT-option.html

 

Another from former M&S CEO.

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

 

Read this ... and weep! Sums up the Brexit disaster quite succinctly. 

Terrific article! Compulsory!!

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, Basil B said:

Two wrongs do not make right...

 

Fact is I am sure public opinion is now for Single Market and Customs Union, and it was what Gove and the Blond dimwit promised Vote Leave voters by citing the Norway model.

 

You're missing the point. Remain claims that the referendum was won by lies. I was pointing out that the biggest, most intimidatory , bullying lie was told by remain. And it didn't enable them to win. So I'm calling BS on remain's claim that lies won the referendum.

[lamyai3]

34 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're missing the point. Remain claims that the referendum was won by lies. I was pointing out that the biggest, most intimidatory , bullying lie was told by remain. And it didn't enable them to win. So I'm calling BS on remain's claim that lies won the referendum.

The director of the vote leave campaign Dominic Cummings himself admitted it was won by lies:

 

"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way."

[Khun Han]

26 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

The director of the vote leave campaign Dominic Cummings himself admitted it was won by lies:

 

"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way."

 

Dominic Cummings flags up immigration (no lie there) and 350mn/pw, which was sold as "we could spend this money on....". Remain could hardly admit that they won by lies. could they? They created the biggest, most intimidatory, bullying lie of all in Osborne's threat, but they still lost. So, despite propagating the biggest lie of all and still losing, remain and their attack dog Project Fear, continue with the "it wus lies wot wun it" cr@p.

[lamyai3]

Hardly. Don't forget that every politician was chest thumping to the extent that there was widespread incredulity on both sides and the public didn't know who to believe. I certainly saw Osborne's comment as nothing more than a tactic, as I'm sure most others did. The sentiment behind it was a different issue though, that Brexit would hit people in the pocket and the effects on the economy would be very bad. 

The NHS £350 million a week pledge on the other hand was at a whole different level of misinformation, presented as virtually a campaign promise, and went out in public information brochures delivered door to door. The public was so confused by the whole thing that they looked to the media to interpret what was going on, and in doing so hit a barrage of pro-leave propaganda. The ratio of tabloid articles in favour of exit was 2:1, and the pro remain aspect of the media (BBC etc) befuddled the picture enormously in the late stages by presenting opinion polls that predicted a resounding remain victory.

 

You keep harping on about Project Fear, in my opinion this description is misapplied and should be used to refer to the actions of the tabloid media in the nature of the pre-referendum articles and opinion pieces published. How on earth can a referendum be called fair when it's conducted on such narrow margins and on the basis of so much duplicity? 

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by lamyai3

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

Hardly. Don't forget that every politician was chest thumping to the extent that there was widespread incredulity on both sides and the public didn't know who to believe. I certainly saw Osborne's comment as nothing more than a tactic, as I'm sure most others did. The sentiment behind it was a different issue though, that Brexit would hit people in the pocket and the effects on the economy would be very bad. 

The NHS £350 million a week pledge on the other hand was at a whole different level of misinformation, presented as virtually a campaign promise, and went out in public information brochures delivered door to door. The public was so confused by the whole thing that they looked to the media to interpret what was going on, and in doing so hit a barrage of pro-leave misinformation. The ratio of tabloid articles in favour of exit was 2:1, and the pro remain aspect of the media (BBC etc) befuddled the picture enormously in the late stages by presenting opinion polls that predicted a resounding remain victory.

 

You keep harping on about Project Fear, in my opinion this description is misapplied and should be used to refer to the actions of the tabloid media in the nature of the pre-referendum articles and opinion pieces published. How on earth can a referendum be called fair when it's conducted on such narrow margins and on the basis of so much misinformation? 

 

 

I certainly saw Osborne's comment as nothing more than a tactic, as I'm sure most others did.

 

Haha. Hilarious!

 

The NHS £350 million a week pledge on the other hand was at a whole different level of misinformation

 

It wasn't a pledge. It was a 'this is what we could do with this money'.

 

The public was so confused by the whole thing that they looked to the media to interpret what was going on, and in doing so hit a barrage of pro-leave misinformation. The ratio of tabloid articles in favour of exit was 2:1, and the pro remain aspect of the media (BBC etc) befuddled the picture enormously in the late stages by presenting opinion polls that predicted a resounding remain victory.

 

I'm calling complete and utter BS on this. Do you even live in the UK? The media was awash with pro-remain propaganda. The public was just inundated by it.

 

You keep harping on about Project Fear, in my opinion this description is misapplied and should be used to refer to the actions of the tabloid media in the nature of the pre-referendum articles and opinion pieces published. How on earth can a referendum be called fair when it's conducted on such narrow margins and on the basis of so much misinformation? 

 

And again, I'm calling complete and utter BS, with a good dose of prevarication thrown in. You clearly were not present in the UK around the time of the referendum. Not only was Project Fear rampant at that time, it has continued apace ever since.

[pitrevie]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

 

Read this ... and weep! Sums up the Brexit disaster quite succinctly. 

Yep good article, well worth reading. Ken Clarke got it exactly right, we disappear down a rabbit hole and expect to reappear in wonderland.

[pitrevie]

27 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I certainly saw Osborne's comment as nothing more than a tactic, as I'm sure most others did.

 

Haha. Hilarious!

 

The NHS £350 million a week pledge on the other hand was at a whole different level of misinformation

 

It wasn't a pledge. It was a 'this is what we could do with this money'.

 

The public was so confused by the whole thing that they looked to the media to interpret what was going on, and in doing so hit a barrage of pro-leave misinformation. The ratio of tabloid articles in favour of exit was 2:1, and the pro remain aspect of the media (BBC etc) befuddled the picture enormously in the late stages by presenting opinion polls that predicted a resounding remain victory.

 

I'm calling complete and utter BS on this. Do you even live in the UK? The media was awash with pro-remain propaganda. The public was just inundated by it.

 

You keep harping on about Project Fear, in my opinion this description is misapplied and should be used to refer to the actions of the tabloid media in the nature of the pre-referendum articles and opinion pieces published. How on earth can a referendum be called fair when it's conducted on such narrow margins and on the basis of so much misinformation? 

 

And again, I'm calling complete and utter BS, with a good dose of prevarication thrown in. You clearly were not present in the UK around the time of the referendum. Not only was Project Fear rampant at that time, it has continued apace ever since.

https://euobserver.com/uk-referendum/136105

 

Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader and self-appointed scourge of the establishment, has praised the BBC's coverage in the run-up to Britain's referendum on EU membership as "fair and balanced".

 

He told a media conference in Copenhagen that the public broadcaster had done everything it could to be fair, apparently reversing earlier criticism of the corporation as "left-wing" and "dishonest".

[Grouse]

Macron wins large majority.

 

Strong, stable leadership.

 

So much for the EU falling apart ?

[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

The media was awash with pro-remain propaganda. The public was just inundated by it.

I'm calling complete and utter B.S. on this ?

[SheungWan]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Macron wins large majority.

 

Strong, stable leadership.

 

So much for the EU falling apart ?

The forum Hard Brexiteers never quite recovered from their heroine of the day Marine Le Pen getting trashed. It is Le Pen rather than Theresa May who they looked towards, but some of them are more Jean-Marie than Marine.

Edited June 19, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

 

Read this ... and weep! Sums up the Brexit disaster quite succinctly. 

Fixes the Brexit project like a pig on a spit.

[Khun Han]

First we had Labour's loony left woolyback leadership doing some political ambulance chasing over the Grenfell Tower tragedy, now they're trying to divide and conquer at the crucial opening stage of brexit negotiations. Great patriots they are, aren't they? I think the phrase 'shower of s...' is probably more befitting:

 

http://news.sky.com/story/labour-claims-brexit-disarray-on-eve-of-talks-in-brussels-10919244

 

And the Establishment-owned media are continuing with their 180 degree turn on Corbyn's suitability for leadership in conjunction with trashing May's reputation. Of course, once they have got rid of May and installed Corbyn, they will revert to type and bring down Corbyn in less than a year in favour of a Tory government that does as it's told. Keep on buying this cr@p folks. You know it makes sense.

[Naam]

30 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The forum Hard Brexiteers never quite recovered from their heroine of the day Marine Le Pen getting trashed. It is Le Pen rather than Theresa May who they looked towards, but some of them are more Jean-Marie than Marine.

but you have to admit that Mlle. Le Pen was extremely successful winning the absolute minority.