May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

That would be the petty cash of 250 billion pounds to be set aside by Labour's 'National Transformation Fund' for nationalisations and other projects.

 

 

That would be a matter of perception. The administrative cost of brexit is money that has gone and will go straight down the drain. There is absolutely no doubt that many will view the Labour plans in the same vein but at this point in time they have yet to affect the national debt. By the time JC gets his hands on the purse strings there will be nothing left to spend.

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

What a ridiculous post. Completely nonsensical. I read great bitterness in your life, probably due to a dumbed down education and a me me lifestyle..

 

Life is what you make it, not the State.

 

As I said, you are welcome to the Brave New World under Comrad Corbyn. 

 

You spent at least 10 years of your life at a state school learning to read/write and receiving a general education ...wholly funded by the state!

 

You weren't smart enough to take advantage of the free university Eduction on offer ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

So, you joined the army instead ...again wholly funded by the state ...who provided you with further education in a technical subject ...again wholly funded by the state ...& paid you a wage way above what you could have earned on civvy street ..again wholly funded by the state, not to mention a heavily subsidised pension ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

You then left the army and started working in the private sector using your qualifications and experience( ...again wholly funded by the state) ....which allowed you to earn a decent salary.

 

Not to mention the free health care you've enjoyed your whole life ...again wholly funded by the state!

 

If your parents couldn't afford to send you to university, then it follows they could never have afforded to send you to school either.

 

I'm just wondering, as you would have been an illiterate with no skills, if you can comprehend how different your life would have been without all these state handouts?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by onthesoi

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

What a ridiculous post. Completely nonsensical. I read great bitterness in your life, probably due to a dumbed down education and a me me lifestyle..

 

Life is what you make it, not the State.

 

As I said, you are welcome to the Brave New World under Comrad Corbyn. 

That's too much in the opposite.  In reality it is a mix.  There is definitely an element of 'life is what you make it.'  There is no doubt we have had one strand of politics for a very long time now.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

You spent at least 10 years of your life at a state school learning to read/write and receiving a general education ...wholly funded by the state!

 

You weren't smart enough to take advantage of the free university Eduction on offer ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

So, you joined the army instead ...again wholly funded by the state ...who provided you with further education in a technical subject ...again wholly funded by the state ...& paid you a wage way above what you could have earned on civvy street ..again wholly funded by the state, not to mention a heavily subsidised pension ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

You then left the army and started working in the private sector using your qualifications and experience( ...again wholly funded by the state) ....which allowed you to earn a decent salary.

 

Not to mention the free health care you've enjoyed your whole life ...again wholly funded by the state!

 

If your parents couldn't afford to send you to university, then it follows they could never have afforded to send you to school either.

 

I'm just wondering, as you would have been an illiterate with no skills, if you can comprehend how different your life would have been without all these state handouts?

 

 

 

 

 

Oh great! Now onthesoi is trying to make equivalence between people who make the maximum use of state education/training to support themselves as adults, and people who choose to spend their adult lives being sponging layabouts. And, apparently, working adults using the NHS that they pay into through various taxes is also some kind of state dependence.

 

Whatever next from onthesoi? Defending serial killers perhaps. Nah! Never stoop that low!

[Johnyo]

 
Oh great! Now onthesoi is trying to make equivalence between people who make the maximum use of state education/training to support themselves as adults, and people who choose to spend their adult lives being sponging layabouts. And, apparently, working adults using the NHS that they pay into through various taxes is also some kind of state dependence.
 
Whatever next from onthesoi? Defending serial killers perhaps. Nah! Never stoop that low!

You must have applauded Corbyn bringing back free University education


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Corbyn's proposals are no more than that, proposals. If he became PM tomorrow he has less chance of getting anything passed than Maggie May.

The cost of brexit is mounting on a daily basis and who do you think is going to pay for that, it wouldn't happen to be the same people that may have to foot Corbyn's proposals would it?

Corbyns popularity is based on his proposals.

 

Once you look under the cover you see the real deal.

 

Hey, no problems. Have your Marxist State and watch the rules get changed so that democracy flies out of the window. I am beyond caring what will happen to all of those misguided people who think that Corbyn is the Messiah.

 

It puzzles me why people who enjoy living in a military/police controlled country like Thailand want to see socialism in power back in the UK. Double standards.

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

You spent at least 10 years of your life at a state school learning to read/write and receiving a general education ...wholly funded by the state!

 

You weren't smart enough to take advantage of the free university Eduction on offer ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

So, you joined the army instead ...again wholly funded by the state ...who provided you with further education in a technical subject ...again wholly funded by the state ...& paid you a wage way above what you could have earned on civvy street ..again wholly funded by the state, not to mention a heavily subsidised pension ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

You then left the army and started working in the private sector using your qualifications and experience( ...again wholly funded by the state) ....which allowed you to earn a decent salary.

 

Not to mention the free health care you've enjoyed your whole life ...again wholly funded by the state!

 

If your parents couldn't afford to send you to university, then it follows they could never have afforded to send you to school either.

 

I'm just wondering, as you would have been an illiterate with no skills, if you can comprehend how different your life would have been without all these state handouts?

 

 

 

 

I have no idea what your post has to do with the thread but as a quick reply...

 

Your post explains all. You think that the State pays for everything. The State has no money. All money the State spends is paid in by tax payers. The only cash the State has that is not paid for by tax is what it borrows and then that has to be paid back by tax payers. You simply have no grasp of how life works.

 

I will put this in big letters so that you can understand (I couldn't find any pictures to explain it). THERE  IS NO STATE MONEY,  IT IS ALL SUPPLIED BY THE TAX PAYER AND SPENT ON OUR BEHALF BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.

 

Your post is so full of cr*p that I can only think you are some illiterate product of the dumbed down education system that exists thanks to Blair.

 

You really fit the definition of an internet Troll.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Flustered

[Grouse]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz8sKMgeqUU

 

Question time from Thursday 22 June. First class. Something for everyone. Recommended for non Brits also as it addresses some of the nuances. Dimbleby actual kicks someone out - first time ever!

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

You spent at least 10 years of your life at a state school learning to read/write and receiving a general education ...wholly funded by the state!

 

You weren't smart enough to take advantage of the free university Eduction on offer ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

So, you joined the army instead ...again wholly funded by the state ...who provided you with further education in a technical subject ...again wholly funded by the state ...& paid you a wage way above what you could have earned on civvy street ..again wholly funded by the state, not to mention a heavily subsidised pension ...again wholly funded by the state.

 

You then left the army and started working in the private sector using your qualifications and experience( ...again wholly funded by the state) ....which allowed you to earn a decent salary.

 

Not to mention the free health care you've enjoyed your whole life ...again wholly funded by the state!

 

If your parents couldn't afford to send you to university, then it follows they could never have afforded to send you to school either.

 

I'm just wondering, as you would have been an illiterate with no skills, if you can comprehend how different your life would have been without all these state handouts?

 

 

 

 

That's a bit harsh!

[Grouse]

28 minutes ago, Flustered said:

I have no idea what your post has to do with the thread but as a quick reply...

 

Your post explains all. You think that the State pays for everything. The State has no money. All money the State spends is paid in by tax payers. The only cash the State has that is not paid for by tax is what it borrows and then that has to be paid back by tax payers. You simply have no grasp of how life works.

 

I will put this in big letters so that you can understand (I couldn't find any pictures to explain it). THERE  IS NO STATE MONEY,  IT IS ALL SUPPLIED BY THE TAX PAYER AND SPENT ON OUR BEHALF BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.

 

Your post is so full of cr*p that I can only think you are some illiterate product of the dumbed down education system that exists thanks to Blair.

 

You really fit the definition of an internet Troll.

 

 

And that's no better!

 

The two of you come to my study immediately!

[mommysboy]

Political hue aside, and not withstanding poverty is a difficult concept to define, I would say that the very fact that someone is subject to it seems to lead to the dumbing down you describe.  Recent studies I heard on Radio 4 (sorry no specifics) attributed a 15 point drop in IQ just from being subject to the vicissitudes that poverty brings.  That's enough to demote an averagely bright person to an unfortunate level.

 

What that could mean is someone like me, or Flustered, or perhaps most people on this forum could go one way or the other depending on circumstances- it's the difference between having the wind with or against you.  It just seems a matter of logic to me that by concentrating resources on the lower levels then that must be beneficial for society.

 

Another point is that robotics is set to make very high numbers of people effectively financially redundant, which rather begs the question: how are we going to treat these people?  The present system, which actually exacerbates wealth inequality and disenfranchises the poor ever more is clearly inadequate and the full weight hasn't hit yet.

 

Whatever future political movements are called, they will inevitably be socialist in nature imo, although I would merely class them as social welfare based.

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Political hue aside, and not withstanding poverty is a difficult concept to define, I would say that the very fact that someone is subject to it seems to lead to the dumbing down you describe.  Recent studies I heard on Radio 4 (sorry no specifics) attributed a 15 point drop in IQ just from being subject to the vicissitudes that poverty brings.  That's enough to demote an averagely bright person to an unfortunate level.

 

What that could mean is someone like me, or Flustered, or perhaps most people on this forum could go one way or the other depending on circumstances- it's the difference between having the wind with or against you.  It just seems a matter of logic to me that by concentrating resources on the lower levels then that must be beneficial for society.

 

Another point is that robotics is set to make very high numbers of people effectively financially redundant, which rather begs the question: how are we going to treat these people?  The present system, which actually exacerbates wealth inequality and disenfranchises the poor ever more is clearly inadequate and the full weight hasn't hit yet.

 

Whatever future political movements are called, they will inevitably be socialist in nature imo, although I would merely class them as social welfare based.

Yes indeed, the combined impact of robotics, automation and AI (expert systems) will make the current capital / labour balance even worse. How to deal with this is the most important issue of our time. Brexit is a mere side effect.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Grouse

[melvinmelvin]

Brexit, the mere side effect of AI and robotics! Hope historians get this right.

 

Wonder what comment Farage would offer to that observation.

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

I have no idea what your post has to do with the thread but as a quick reply...

 

Your post explains all. You think that the State pays for everything. The State has no money. All money the State spends is paid in by tax payers. The only cash the State has that is not paid for by tax is what it borrows and then that has to be paid back by tax payers. You simply have no grasp of how life works.

 

I will put this in big letters so that you can understand (I couldn't find any pictures to explain it). THERE  IS NO STATE MONEY,  IT IS ALL SUPPLIED BY THE TAX PAYER AND SPENT ON OUR BEHALF BY THE GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY.

 

 

 

 

John Maynard Keynes disagrees with you. As do most who devote serious thought to the matter.. Of course, they don't put their theses into bold caps, so you do have the advantage of them there.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

The state made your life what it is, bought and paid for by the tax payer.

 

Now it's someone else's turn you're whinging about it?

The state certainly did not make my life what it is.

 

No it wasn't bought and paid for by the taxpayer. I should know as I am still a taxpayer starting in July 1959 until the day I die. I made my own choices in my life as to what I would do, where I would work etc. Certainly the state helped me in my early years when I volunteered to join the RAF, NOT conscripted, It didn't help me after I left, nor for the 3 careers that I had after I left.

 

They were MY choice and nobody elses.

 

I am certainly not whinging about it.

[Johnyo]

Someone is living in cloud cuckoo land.
 
By living a frugal life so that my wife and I are comfortable in our old age, by raising a daughter and teaching her values so that today she is a successful chartered accountant living in London, by paying my taxes and by serving my country in the armed forces, I have messed it up for the young?  What medication are you on?
 
Under your way of life, we would see a Marxist/Socialist government, allow anyone in who wants to come to the UK, all be on benefits, borrowing more and more and never be able to pay it back.
 
As I said, I do not care at all. I have made sure that whatever happens and whatever government we have, whether we are in the EU or outside it, my family has had the common sense to save money rather than throw it away on smoking, drinking, expensive holidays and luxury materialistic items so that when the next Marxist/Socialist government come into power, we have enough savings and income from various sources to live a very comfortable life here or overseas.
 
Anyone could do this, anyone except a dyed in the wool Socialist.

This is the result of the older generation voting and screwing it up for generations to come but as you are OK don't worry about anyone else.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-worst-performing-advanced-economy-world-post-brexit-slump-election-pound-sterling-a7766286.html?cmpid=facebook-post




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

John Maynard Keynes disagrees with you. As do most who devote serious thought to the matter.. Of course, they don't put their theses into bold caps, so you do have the advantage of them there.

My bold caps were so that someone might be able to read them.

 

As to the comment "As do most who devote serious thought to the matter" You and Mr Keynes do not make up the "most".

 

I gave this great thought regarding the thread title and Brexit.

 

It's just like the UK. We are a net contributor to the EU.

 

Over my lifetime when you deduct all of the costs that have been incurred educating me, healing me and ensuring I led a safe and productive life, I am a net contributor.

 

In effect, I have been paying for all of the sick, lame and lazy (to coin an Army expression) who cannot be bothered to get off their lazy backsides and do an honest days work.

 

As for the ones who GENUINELY need support, I do not begrudge them my contribution.

 

It's the same with the EU. If other EU countries genuinely need help and support, no one in the UK begrudges them that. But when you have systems such as the CAP or moving from Brussels to Strassbourg just to placate the French then I object. (as do "most who devote serious thought to the matter".

 

Great to see Ricciardo win.

[Flustered]

33 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

This is the result of the older generation voting and screwing it up for generations to come but as you are OK don't worry about anyone else.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-worst-performing-advanced-economy-world-post-brexit-slump-election-pound-sterling-a7766286.html?cmpid=facebook-post




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

When the generations to come have paid into the system as we have, they will be entitled to complain.

 

Until then, why should someone who has never paid a penny in income tax or council tax and is still at school/uni even be entitled to vote?

[Flustered]

I did promise myself not to respond any more to this thread as it is well past it's sell by date but as someone said 

 

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, Flustered said:

When the generations to come have paid into the system as we have, they will be entitled to complain.

 

Until then, why should someone who has never paid a penny in income tax or council tax and is still at school/uni even be entitled to vote?

I agree. And the more income you make, and the more you pay in taxes, the more votes you should get. Although, come to think of, in effect it works like that anyway.

[mommysboy]

17 minutes ago, Flustered said:

My bold caps were so that someone might be able to read them.

 

As to the comment "As do most who devote serious thought to the matter" You and Mr Keynes do not make up the "most".

 

I gave this great thought regarding the thread title and Brexit.

 

It's just like the UK. We are a net contributor to the EU.

 

Over my lifetime when you deduct all of the costs that have been incurred educating me, healing me and ensuring I led a safe and productive life, I am a net contributor.

 

In effect, I have been paying for all of the sick, lame and lazy (to coin an Army expression) who cannot be bothered to get off their lazy backsides and do an honest days work.

 

As for the ones who GENUINELY need support, I do not begrudge them my contribution.

 

It's the same with the EU. If other EU countries genuinely need help and support, no one in the UK begrudges them that. But when you have systems such as the CAP or moving from Brussels to Strassbourg just to placate the French then I object. (as do "most who devote serious thought to the matter".

 

Great to see Ricciardo win.

 

In truth, most of us average earners are not net contributors. I think the situation is less clear when it comes to consumption of public services.  Someone who lives a reasonable life probably doesn't take much out either.  Of course absolutely no one can be blamed for genetic conditions and illnesses they are born with or develop during life, yet I agree that for many it seems to be about consume, consume, consume.

 

I would not categorize most of the unemployes the way you have.  It may seem that way but I would say demoralization is an insidious feeling, and a key characteristic of poverty.

 

The worst thing about the EU, for me, is the trade imbalance.  But it will just shift elsewhere because our economy still remains imbalanced.  In the scheme of things, the imbalance in contributions is small beer. 

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

In truth, most of us average earners are not net contributors. I think the situation is less clear when it comes to consumption of public services.  Someone who lives a reasonable life probably doesn't take much out either.  Of course absolutely no one can be blamed for genetic conditions and illnesses they are born with or develop during life, yet I agree that for many it seems to be about consume, consume, consume.

 

I would not categorize most of the unemployes the way you have.  It may seem that way but I would say demoralization is an insidious feeling, and a key characteristic of poverty.

 

The worst thing about the EU, for me, is the trade imbalance.  But it will just shift elsewhere because our economy still remains imbalanced.  In the scheme of things, the imbalance in contributions is small beer. 

 

I would not categorize most of the unemployes the way you have

 

I would. Otherwise, with the unemployed figure currently standing at 1.6 million, why do we have to import so many menial and blue collar workers?

[mommysboy]

17 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I would not categorize most of the unemployes the way you have

 

I would. Otherwise, with the unemployed figure currently standing at 1.6 million, why do we have to import so many menial and blue collar workers?

It does strike me as strange.  I see your point.  I wonder whether our workforce is just incredibly disabled/unfit/demoralized.  Or they have living overheads that mean a low wage job is out of the question-half decent housing is so expensive.  When I was a student, I was raring to earn a bit of folding and it was tax free of course.  You'd have thought they'd be willing to sell a few punnets of strawberries wouldn't you?

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, Flustered said:

The pseudo intellectual Strawman.

 

Do you ever contribute a meaningful point to the thread subject?

Not sure you know the difference, but never mind. Life's tough enough out in the sticks. What is it with Hard Brexiteers that they are sour all the time?

Edited June 25, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

When the generations to come have paid into the system as we have, they will be entitled to complain.

 

Until then, why should someone who has never paid a penny in income tax or council tax and is still at school/uni even be entitled to vote?

 

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

I agree. And the more income you make, and the more you pay in taxes, the more votes you should get. Although, come to think of, in effect it works like that anyway.

What on earth are you two prattling on about?

[Khun Han]

28 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It does strike me as strange.  I see your point.  I wonder whether our workforce is just incredibly disabled/unfit/demoralized.  Or they have living overheads that mean a low wage job is out of the question-half decent housing is so expensive.  When I was a student, I was raring to earn a bit of folding and it was tax free of course.  You'd have thought they'd be willing to sell a few punnets of strawberries wouldn't you?

 

Oh, my company (and often me personally) has to deal with the types we're discussing week in, week out, as part of our service to property companies. There is a huge underclass out there which simply has no interest in any kind of life which means getting out of bed early and going to work.

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

In truth, most of us average earners are not net contributors. I think the situation is less clear when it comes to consumption of public services.  Someone who lives a reasonable life probably doesn't take much out either.  Of course absolutely no one can be blamed for genetic conditions and illnesses they are born with or develop during life, yet I agree that for many it seems to be about consume, consume, consume.

 

I would not categorize most of the unemployes the way you have.  It may seem that way but I would say demoralization is an insidious feeling, and a key characteristic of poverty.

 

The worst thing about the EU, for me, is the trade imbalance.  But it will just shift elsewhere because our economy still remains imbalanced.  In the scheme of things, the imbalance in contributions is small beer. 

When you work out how much you have paid into the system, do not forget that it includes VAT (sales tax in my day), vehicle excise duty, airport taxes and many others. they add up pretty fast.

[Flustered]

18 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

What on earth are you two prattling on about?

Don't worry, it's a bit above your head. It's to do with finance. 555

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

I would not categorize most of the unemployes the way you have

 

I would. Otherwise, with the unemployed figure currently standing at 1.6 million, why do we have to import so many menial and blue collar workers?

The Jobs and the unemployed are not necessarily in the same place.