May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[mommysboy]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We need a different electoral system. Now.

Probably. Something that properly represents poor people, without turning against commerce.  The shocking level of inequality needs to be addressed.

 

The alternative could be a fully fledged socialist government that fully vents 40 years of pent up frustration on behalf of poor people and the dis-enfranchised, which also expands to the mifddle class.  Capitalism in its present form is dead.  It will be re-invented in some other form, but I can't see the present shower doing anything other than more damage.

 

[SheungWan]

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Probably. Something that properly represents poor people, without turning against commerce.  The shocking level of inequality needs to be addressed.

 

The alternative could be a fully fledged socialist government that fully vents 40 years of pent up frustration on behalf of poor people and the dis-enfranchised, which also expands to the mifddle class.  Capitalism in its present form is dead.  It will be re-invented in some other form, but I can't see the present shower doing anything other than more damage.

 

Most on the left talking hot air just Peronist-style posturing. Oh, and lining up Corbyn-style to support Maduro in Venezuela. Old rubbish in new bottles.

Edited September 28, 2017 by SheungWan

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Most on the left talking hot air just Peronist-style posturing.

It's possible there is a sea-change.

 

What happened first in Scotland is that the disaffected came out to vote, and it's happening now in England.  And there's an awful lot of 'em.

[aright]

37 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We need a different electoral system. Now.

Two questions.

Do you mean an electoral system  which will help us build aircraft?

What electoral system do you propose?

[aright]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

It's possible there is a sea-change.

 

What happened first in Scotland is that the disaffected came out to vote, and it's happening now in England.  And there's an awful lot of 'em.

Don't panic.

Corbyn is the Wild Wests equivalent to a snake-oil salesman selling palliatives to the gullible.

Corbyn is appealing to a sense of unease in the UK by persuading the electorate his snake oil cures everything.

The Labour Party has lost the last 3 elections in a row.......I can't see the Conservatives calling another snap election , but 3 years from now, I expect them to loose a fourth. Dianne Abbott as Defence Minister, John McDonnell as Chancellor ....doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[mommysboy]

16 minutes ago, aright said:

Don't panic.

Corbyn is the Wild Wests equivalent to a snake-oil salesman selling palliatives to the gullible.

Corbyn is appealing to a sense of unease in the UK by persuading the electorate his snake oil cures everything.

The Labour Party has lost the last 3 elections in a row.......I can't see the Conservatives calling another snap election , but 3 years from now, I expect them to loose a fourth. Dianne Abbott as Defence Minister, John McDonnell as Chancellor ....doesn't bear thinking about.

 

The Labour Party has lost the last 3 elections in a row..

 

All the more reason to suspect they'll win the next one.

 

If they were not so left wing it would be a certainty imo.

[SheungWan]

25 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The Labour Party has lost the last 3 elections in a row..

 

All the more reason to suspect they'll win the next one.

 

If they were not so left wing it would be a certainty imo.

if this, if that.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, aright said:

Two questions.

Do you mean an electoral system  which will help us build aircraft?

What electoral system do you propose?

Some type of PR to result in coalitions

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-border-guy-verhofstadt-single-market-customs-union-european-parliament-a7972596.html

 

This is a good idea!

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-sacking-ministerial-code-event-foreign-office-a7972676.html

 

The truth will out...

 

"The Institute for Free Trade wants to roll back EU regulations, including on safety standards and workers’ rights, and unilaterally scrap all import tariffs, even if other countries do not reciprocate. It also believes that foreign aid should be slashed and supports allowing chlorine-washed chicken and hormone-injected beef to be sold in the UK."

 

As I keep saying, not all Brexiters are n******s; these are the nasty selfish greedy bastards group.

 

time to ditch the whole idea!

Edited September 29, 2017 by Grouse

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

It used to be Short Brothers and they produced the Belfast for the RAF.

 

All 10 of them and there is only one left I think in a museum.

 

Shorts were sold to Bombadier back in 1989.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers

 

 

 

 

Yes Bill, I used to work on them at Brize and saw all 10 take to the air at the same time at Christmas time 1971. One of the best transporters ever built and flew for a long time after the RAF disposed of them.

Sad state of affairs that the UK is now incapable of building aircraft and it will be even sadder if what parts are still manufactured get lost through the brexit fiasco. The Bombardier issue could just be the tip of the iceberg.

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-border-guy-verhofstadt-single-market-customs-union-european-parliament-a7972596.html

 

This is a good idea!

 A good idea if your interest is destabilization of the government, the UK itself and making Brexit a non-event. 

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, aright said:

The UK has 145  Typhoons and 60 Tornados. 

All of which are consortium aircraft. Kick your consortium partners in the teeth and where are you likely to end up?

Its not today but tomorrow the consequences will show up glad my time is nearly over.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Yes Bill, I used to work on them at Brize and saw all 10 take to the air at the same time at Christmas time 1971. One of the best transporters ever built and flew for a long time after the RAF disposed of them.

Sad state of affairs that the UK is now incapable of building aircraft and it will be even sadder if what parts are still manufactured get lost through the brexit fiasco. The Bombardier issue could just be the tip of the iceberg.

 

I only ever flew in one once to Germany. Certainly more comfortable than  the Beverley which preceeded it ot the whistling tit called the Argosy.

 

The Eurofighter Typhoon is actually built across 4 countries, UK, Germany, Italy and Spain.

 

Despite the politicians common sense says that we keep the system running as it is.

 

The same would apply to the Airbus.

 

From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus

 

The company's main civil aeroplane business is based in Blagnac, France, a suburb of Toulouse, with production and manufacturing facilities mainly in France, Germany, Spain, China, United Kingdom and the United States. Final assembly production is based at Toulouse, France; Hamburg, Germany; Seville, Spain; Tianjin, China, and Mobile, United States

 

The cost to shut down Airbus UK and start a new production line somewhere else in the world will be horrendous and would seriously hit the bottom line profits for a few years or more.

 

Helicopters from Airbus are made in several different countries.

 

There are few aircraft manufacturers in the world nowadays who can make complete aircraft in house as it were.

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

 A good idea if your interest is destabilization of the government, the UK itself and making Brexit a non-event. 

 

Northern Ireland is not an independent country in the EU and it is NOT the EUs place to decide what will happen there.

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Some type of PR to result in coalitions

Agree entirely about PR, and never understood why the idea was turned down by voters.

[aright]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

All of which are consortium aircraft. Kick your consortium partners in the teeth and where are you likely to end up?

Its not today but tomorrow the consequences will show up glad my time is nearly over.

Are you saying our partners won't sell us spare parts for our planes making it impossible for us to meet our NATO commitments to them. Nose spite and face come to mind. Trade is trade, no one is looking for quid pro quo.

[aright]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

We need a different electoral system. Now.

Pick any one of nine.

 

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/

[SheungWan]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Agree entirely about PR, and never understood why the idea was turned down by voters.

Maybe you would like a second referendum.

Edited September 29, 2017 by SheungWan

[sandyf]

33 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The cost to shut down Airbus UK and start a new production line somewhere else in the world will be horrendous and would seriously hit the bottom line profits for a few years or more.

 

They only make the wings in the UK and the wings for the new A350 are being made elsewhere, Germany? The UK desperately needs to be part of new Airbus production.

 

A new aircraft assembly facility was constructed in Tianjin in 18 months—a fraction of the time it would have taken in Europe or the U.S.—and built into it is ample room for expansion.

http://aviationweek.com/new-civil-aircraft/airbus-looks-double-chinese-sourcing-three-years

 

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, aright said:

Are you saying our partners won't sell us spare parts for our planes making it impossible for us to meet our NATO commitments to them. Nose spite and face come to mind. Trade is trade, no one is looking for quid pro quo.

I didn't say anything like that, obviously a shortsighted view of tomorrow.

As future contracts come about UK participation in any new projects will decline. After all, who wants a cuckoo in the nest.

 

[sandyf]

52 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Northern Ireland is not an independent country in the EU and it is NOT the EUs place to decide what will happen there.

That is not quite the case Bill. 

At this point in time the border between NI and the Republic is a border between 2 EU member states and incorporated in the CTA.

On 29th March 2019, that border will come under the jurisdiction of Frontex, the EU Border Agency. The EU have every right to voice an opinion on how that border should be controlled.

It should be borne in mind that external borders are in fact 2 borders alongside each other with each being under the jurisdiction of the respective country. Also for each border there are separate issues in respect of people and goods.

[aright]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I didn't say anything like that, obviously a shortsighted view of tomorrow.

As future contracts come about UK participation in any new projects will decline. After all, who wants a cuckoo in the nest.

 

A short sighted view of trade I would have thought. Business takes no view of personalities; its purchasing  parameters are purpose, efficiency, reliability and price. The Cuckoos in the nest for Airbus at the moment are India, Asia etc. so lets not be saying they are not needed or wanted. Rolls Royce turbofans are currently 40% of worldwide sales and are among the leaders in engine research. Are you seriously suggesting people will stop buying or taking advantage of their research abilities when we leave the UK. Where is your firm evidence (more than speculation) for your statement that UK participation in new projects will decline.

If you have none you are fearmongering.

[sandyf]

Time to face reality.

 

But whatever drove this particular decision the case and whatever lessons we might draw about how the UK would be treated outside the UK over trade, the Bombardier case is certainly a timely reminder of how damaging the sudden imposition of export tariffs can be for specific industries – and the severe knock-on impact on jobs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/bombardier-dispute-what-is-it-about-brexit-northern-ireland-us-tariff-trump-theresa-may-a7972186.html?S2ref=1532332

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, aright said:

A short sighted view of trade I would have thought. Business takes no view of personalities; its purchasing  parameters are purpose, efficiency, reliability and price. The Cuckoos in the nest for Airbus at the moment are India, Asia etc. so lets not be saying they are not needed or wanted. Rolls Royce turbofans are currently 40% of worldwide sales and are among the leaders in engine research. Are you seriously suggesting people will stop buying or taking advantage of their research abilities when we leave the UK. Where is your firm evidence (more than speculation) for your statement that UK participation in new projects will decline.

If you have none you are fearmongering.

It would appear that you find it impossible to stay on point.

 I referred to kicking consortium partners in the teeth. Since when did India or Asia become Eurofighter or Panavia consortium partners or even founding members of Airbus.

 

As for facts, this says it all.

"Are you seriously suggesting people will stop buying or taking advantage of their research abilities when we leave the UK."

 

[aright]

No problem.  You obviously have no firm evidence

[aright]

Portillos take on the German election and outcomes from its result

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/860302/Angela-Merkel-European-Union-German-Election-2017-BBC-This-Week

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

They only make the wings in the UK and the wings for the new A350 are being made elsewhere, Germany? The UK desperately needs to be part of new Airbus production.

 

A new aircraft assembly facility was constructed in Tianjin in 18 months—a fraction of the time it would have taken in Europe or the U.S.—and built into it is ample room for expansion.

http://aviationweek.com/new-civil-aircraft/airbus-looks-double-chinese-sourcing-three-years

 

We do the wings because we had to have a share and the wings are the most difficult bit.

 

In a truely open market, next plant should be in N America.

 

Boeing? Ha! Driven an American car? My wheelbarrow handles better ?

Edited September 29, 2017 by Grouse

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Portillos take on the German election and outcomes from its result

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/860302/Angela-Merkel-European-Union-German-Election-2017-BBC-This-Week

Not sure about that lurid shirt.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Not sure about that lurid shirt.

He should stick to railway timetables. 

 

The shirt is DUP colours

 

I thought better of my next comment ?

Edited September 29, 2017 by Grouse