May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

6 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I like this.
Exponentially.

I always let my students draw simple curves first.
Finally, then the multipled erivation of the optimal price in an oligopoly under combat conditions.

What on earth are you on about?

 

If you can't get your head around Tomacht's ramblings, how on earth is anybody else expected to?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Standing in a puddle, wrapped in the Union Jack.

Better to have wet shoes than be clown in circus without tent - Confucius. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Mugabe has resigned. May be next?

Resigned before Zim-EU transfer window closes. Attention, Jean Claude!

[aright]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Then there is no hope for you. You really don't understand what it's all about. I feel quite sorry for you ?

I don't understand!

[aright]

10 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I like this.
Exponentially.

I always let my students draw simple curves first.
Finally, then the multipled erivation of the optimal price in an oligopoly under combat conditions.

Keep up lad. Erivation  was  disambiguated two years ago and replaced by pendiculation.

[aright]

The rise of euroscepticism is an inevitable consequence of the EU's failure to secure consent for its designs.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/21/collapse-angela-merkels-coalition-shows-dream-united-europe/

[sandyf]

The UK government has decided that the people of NI(UK) are not entitled to the same human rights as those in the south of Ireland(EU).

 

The Irish problem has always been a thorn in the side of the UK government and it strikes me that Teresa May is quietly trying to force the reunification vote. The EU have said it is up to the UK to find a solution and a non existent border would certainly be frictionless.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42065836

 

accelerating down hill exponentially now....

We are now starting to see the potential repercussions from diverse EU funding, something the UK has decided to leave behind. Of course there are those that think they should benefit without making a contribution.

From the link.

 

"Although membership of the European Space Agency is not part of the EU discussions because it is not an EU body, many of the contracts, including Galileo, are EU funded".

[Srikcir]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

We are now starting to see the potential repercussions from diverse EU funding, something the UK has decided to leave behind. Of course there are those that think they should benefit without making a contribution.

From the link.

 

"Although membership of the European Space Agency is not part of the EU discussions because it is not an EU body, many of the contracts, including Galileo, are EU funded".

"Holy Rats in a Trap Batman:"

"Katherine Bennett, senior vice president of Airbus UK, which builds wings at Broughton in North Wales warned that the impact of Brexit meant future investment could go outside the UK."

And UK's newest trade partner China:

"Other countries would dearly love to design and build [Airbus] wings and some already do - we actually build wings in China, and believe you me they are knocking at the door as a result of the situation we find ourselves in in this country," - Bennett

[sandyf]

“Reaching a deal with the European Union is not only far and away the most likely outcome, it’s also the best outcome for our country,” Mr Davis said in a speech in London.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-david-davis-uk-no-deal-european-union-possible-eu-negotiations-talks-divorce-bill-a8067011.html

 

The above statement is far from accurate, he means in the view of some it would be the best outcome when in fact remaining in the single market would be the best outcome.

The government is making a big issue out of a free trade agreement but that does not mean that things will be anything like what they are at the moment. Because of the  FTA, and as the WTO, the UK will become a potentially suspicious source of goods and the EU customs will have to exercise more scrutiny over goods trying to breach the EU tariff rules Many EU importers and UK exporters will not want the hassle and cease to trade across the channel.

[aright]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

"Holy Rats in a Trap Batman:"

"Katherine Bennett, senior vice president of Airbus UK, which builds wings at Broughton in North Wales warned that the impact of Brexit meant future investment could go outside the UK."

And UK's newest trade partner China:

"Other countries would dearly love to design and build [Airbus] wings and some already do - we actually build wings in China, and believe you me they are knocking at the door as a result of the situation we find ourselves in in this country," - Bennett

Many other companies produce their goods outside their national boundary. There are Mercedes production plants in Finland ,Brazil, Mexico, India, South Korea etc. They have lost the plot as well have they?  If I were a share holder in Mercedes I would expect them to maximise the profit margin on each car to maximise returns to me. It's the German Government's job to be responsible for employment not Mercedes'  It's called capitalism. Foreign outsourcing has nothing to do with Brexit or Nationalism. If you want all British production to remain in house vote for Corbyn at the next election. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by aright

[aright]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

Then there is no hope for you. You really don't understand what it's all about. I feel quite sorry for you ?

 

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

From that comment, Grouse, it's obvious that it is you that either can't understand, or won't accept, what Brexit is about. 

I think he understands but just refuses to accept it.

 

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Many other companies produce their goods outside their national boundary.

While UK is in the EU, production of its goods in EU countries isn't from an economic perspective - outside of their national boundary. I think the message from Bennett is that perspective will change with Brexit and will come with potential economic competitive consequences.

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

"Holy Rats in a Trap Batman:"

"Katherine Bennett, senior vice president of Airbus UK, which builds wings at Broughton in North Wales warned that the impact of Brexit meant future investment could go outside the UK."

And UK's newest trade partner China:

"Other countries would dearly love to design and build [Airbus] wings and some already do - we actually build wings in China, and believe you me they are knocking at the door as a result of the situation we find ourselves in in this country," - Bennett

 

 

China, of course, is also outside the EU.

 

Production has followed cheap Labour areas since the dawn of man. Hmmm... dealing with China or the UK for high spec manufacturing. Well, Brougton is close to the Welsh border but I don’t think they produce fake eggs or stick melamine into food products..

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

If you can't get your head around Tomacht's ramblings, how on earth is anybody else expected to?

I am the Gobbledegook Whisperer.

[aright]

33 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

While UK is in the EU, production of its goods in EU countries isn't from an economic perspective - outside of their national boundary. I think the message from Bennett is that perspective will change with Brexit and will come with potential economic competitive consequences.

Whose perspective? Government has nothing to do with it, its all about cost.

Airbus wings are being made in China at the moment but under the wing (sorry) of Broughton.

I'll better dollars to doughnuts Mercedes manufacture overseas under German control.A further question needs to be answered. Broughton is state of the art automation.  If Airbus want a change who is going to acquire 20 years of composite wing technology overnight.

IMO more fear mongering.

 

 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Many other companies produce their goods outside their national boundary. There are Mercedes production plants in Finland ,Brazil, Mexico, India, South Korea etc. They have lost the plot as well have they?  If I were a share holder in Mercedes I would expect them to maximise the profit margin on each car to maximise returns to me. It's the German Government's job to be responsible for employment not Mercedes'  It's called capitalism. Foreign outsourcing has nothing to do with Brexit or Nationalism. If you want all British production to remain in house vote for Corbyn at the next election. 

Nobody is suggesting that.

 

The gravitational model of international trade indicates assembly close to markets. But recall, Japanese car companies built ASSEMBLY plants in the U.K. Because we were in the EU and spoke English ( and other reasons but these are the USPS)

 

However, protection against dumping and exploitation is also important. I find it obscene that Apple uses Foxconn slave labour in China just to maximise corporate profits. A Chinese worker would have to work. 60 hours a week for six months to have an iPhone X like mine.

 

I'm not sure you understand this clearly Aright? 

 

Ask yourself this: why are Danes much happier than Americans or us Brits with their much higher taxes?

Edited November 22, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

 

I think he understands but just refuses to accept it.

 

I suspect that I am rather higher on Maslow's staircase than you. It's not just about money ?

Edited November 22, 2017 by Grouse

[aright]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Nobody is suggesting that.

 

The gravitational model of international trade indicates assembly close to markets. But recall, Japanese car companies built ASSEMBLY plants in the U.K. Because we were in the EU and spoke English ( and other reasons but these are the USPS)

 

However, protection against dumping and exploitation is also important. I find it obscene that Apple uses Foxconn slave labour in China just to maximise corporate profits. A Chinese worker would have to work. 60 hours a week for six months to have an iPhone X like mine.

 

I'm not sure you understand this clearly Aright? 

 

Ask yourself this: why are Danes much happier than Americans or us Brits with their much higher taxes?

Since we voted out, the Japanese have increased their investment in our car industry. Honda put in another £250 million into its production plant to produce the new Honda Civic. After threats about the dire consequences of leaving how many have left.? More fear mongering I feel.

Your third paragraph leaves me bewildered. Why would we have any less protection from dumping when we leave the UK . Your example of slave labour  would be equally undesirable in or out of the EU. So how would the EU prevent this? Their success rate so far? I assume you don't buy Apple. What computers do you have? Give me a little time and I'm sure I can find some slave or shonky attachment. Capitalism is exploitative and don't we all enjoy the benefits. There are other models, perhaps you could recommend one which would satisfy all your needs. 

The Danes are happier because they practice "hygge" which is all about candles, hot chocolate and being cosy. I can't answer for the rest of the nation but I couldn't be happier. I prefer electric light, gin and tonic and a 12 tog Duvet. I do my best within reason to make my family, friends and employees happy . Please don't ask me to be responsible for the rest of the nation.

An early G&T today I feel.

[aright]

45 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I suspect that I am rather higher on Maslow's staircase than you. It's not just about money ?

Please don't misquote  I said in part it's about money

I am however on a higher plain than you I'm on the Stairway to Heaven,,,,,,,,,,,Nancy Wilson version.

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by aright

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

After threats about the dire consequences of leaving how many have left.? More fear mongering I feel.

Or in too deep to leave: 

• £2.2bn invested into its Wiltshire base since it first opened the branch in 1985
• Profits in its UK subsidiary fall 21pc for the year to March 31 vs profit surge of more than 100pc for the same period with its European arm
• In July, car sales fell 9.3pc compared to the same month a year ago. Sales have now fallen for six consecutive months.

And betting on a practical Brexit that keeps access to the EU single market:

• A Honda spokesman said it would urge the government to continue dialogue with the EU “to deliver a free and frictionless trading environment. This is central to our continued success in the European region as a whole”.  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/07/honda-committed-uk-factory-despite-brexit-wobbles/

[adammike]

4 hours ago, aright said:

Since we voted out, the Japanese have increased their investment in our car industry. Honda put in another £250 million into its production plant to produce the new Honda Civic. After threats about the dire consequences of leaving how many have left.? More fear mongering I feel.

Your third paragraph leaves me bewildered. Why would we have any less protection from dumping when we leave the UK . Your example of slave labour  would be equally undesirable in or out of the EU. So how would the EU prevent this? Their success rate so far? I assume you don't buy Apple. What computers do you have? Give me a little time and I'm sure I can find some slave or shonky attachment. Capitalism is exploitative and don't we all enjoy the benefits. There are other models, perhaps you could recommend one which would satisfy all your needs. 

The Danes are happier because they practice "hygge" which is all about candles, hot chocolate and being cosy. I can't answer for the rest of the nation but I couldn't be happier. I prefer electric light, gin and tonic and a 12 tog Duvet. I do my best within reason to make my family, friends and employees happy . Please don't ask me to be responsible for the rest of the nation.

An early G&T today I feel.

It may be a gamble or a clever move on the part of the Japanese car makers,Mercedes and I guess BMW sell less than 10% of their production in the UK who are they gonna choose in a trade war with the UK? same for most off the other stuff the EU export to the UK it's a big deal but will not be fatal,only the people who grow the grapes for Champagne and the Italian and Spanish versions will really suffer all the others in the chain will take a small hit,get ready to drive a Japanese car guys,the UK may end up a bit like Cuba did with the old American cars except you will be driving old mercs and beemers bodged together with cannibalised parts.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, aright said:

Since we voted out, the Japanese have increased their investment in our car industry. Honda put in another £250 million into its production plant to produce the new Honda Civic. After threats about the dire consequences of leaving how many have left.? More fear mongering I feel.

Your third paragraph leaves me bewildered. Why would we have any less protection from dumping when we leave the UK . Your example of slave labour  would be equally undesirable in or out of the EU. So how would the EU prevent this? Their success rate so far? I assume you don't buy Apple. What computers do you have? Give me a little time and I'm sure I can find some slave or shonky attachment. Capitalism is exploitative and don't we all enjoy the benefits. There are other models, perhaps you could recommend one which would satisfy all your needs. 

The Danes are happier because they practice "hygge" which is all about candles, hot chocolate and being cosy. I can't answer for the rest of the nation but I couldn't be happier. I prefer electric light, gin and tonic and a 12 tog Duvet. I do my best within reason to make my family, friends and employees happy . Please don't ask me to be responsible for the rest of the nation.

An early G&T today I feel.

OK, good 

 

There is stiction with manufacturing plants and May has made covert deals but the original premises remain.

 

We WILL have less protections outside of the EU. I can see it happening already

 

I use Apple as does the whole family; have done for many years. However, I do think we should clamp down hard on their imports. Their products are excellent and I happily pay a premium.

 

My years in Denmark were the happiest time of my life. Perfect for a young family. Delighted that you understand hyggelig! However, their civilisation runs much deeper.

 

I don't ask you to be responsible for the UK, just be aware that we can do better. Much better ?

 

Enjoy your G&T ?

Edited November 22, 2017 by Grouse
??

[aright]

54 minutes ago, adammike said:

It may be a gamble or a clever move on the part of the Japanese car makers,Mercedes and I guess BMW sell less than 10% of their production in the UK who are they gonna choose in a trade war with the UK?

You need to give that statement a little more context. The largest European export market for Mercedes cars is the UK. I would have thought that loss would give them food for thought not that it will happen for nose and face reasons. I'm guessing but I would put BMW in a similar position. As for a trade war the Japanese and Germans serve different ends of the market so unlikely.

My G&T carriage awaits. Good night all.

[sandyf]

On 11/22/2017 at 9:35 AM, Srikcir said:

"Holy Rats in a Trap Batman:"

"Katherine Bennett, senior vice president of Airbus UK, which builds wings at Broughton in North Wales warned that the impact of Brexit meant future investment could go outside the UK."

And UK's newest trade partner China:

"Other countries would dearly love to design and build [Airbus] wings and some already do - we actually build wings in China, and believe you me they are knocking at the door as a result of the situation we find ourselves in in this country," - Bennett

The Airbus production facility in the UK is a result of BAE participation in the original Airbus consortium, not as any cost saving exercise. In 2006 BAE sold off its stake in Airbus and now Airbus(UK) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Airbus SE.

Airbus aircraft are produced in China so there is an economic benefit in producing the wings locally which opens the door to Asia.

As has been pointed out, cost and profit are major considerations and with UK productivity the way it is, the UK cannot be the most economical source. When the UK leaves the EU the customs regulations are only going to add to that cost, despite what many seem to think, a FTA still means customs regulations.

 

"The company’s senior corporate representative in the UK warned the business select committee that the threat of new customs bureaucracy and reduced employee mobility could deter long-term investment and accelerate a shift to Asia."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/21/airbus-boss-says-brexit-risks-losing-uk-aviations-crown-jewels-to-china

 

There is no Airbus assembly in the UK so there would be no real incentive to maintain production in the UK other than the cost of relocation, but the savings could be substantial. Not going to happen overnight but production in the UK could evaporate with each new aircraft design, we have already seen part of the A350 wing go elsewhere.

People should bear in mind that Broughton was only one of ten new factories built for A350 production, built in 2008 long before some were to put its future in jeopardy.

[Grouse]

At least the chancellor has a sense of humour

 

I liked the Clarkson self driving car phobia juxtaposed with Hammond and May! ?

[Grouse]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42092171

 

Is ANYONE in charge?

 

Real apprenticeships are key; not shelf stacking but HNCs in numerical control machines, laser optics and RF engineering!

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-debt-uk-deficit-not-fall-below-2008-levels-2060-financial-crash-economy-warning-a8071696.html

 

More cheerful news

 

The Brexiters have disappeared; huddling for warmth presumably ?

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-summit-theresa-may-tory-chaos-eu-ireland-leaked-dossier-rte-diplomats-david-davis-a8071756.html

 

But we can at least rely upon the professionalism of the Cons. ?

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-debt-uk-deficit-not-fall-below-2008-levels-2060-financial-crash-economy-warning-a8071696.html

 

More cheerful news

 

The Brexiters have disappeared; huddling for warmth presumably ?

Look at the rise 2008-2010. Look at the debt of other countries. Look around a bit.