Fining Yingluck For Rice Subsidy In 'Grey Area,' Critic Of Policy Says

[webfact]

Fining Yingluck For Rice Subsidy In "Grey Area,' Critic Of Policy Says

By Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter -

 

Former PM Yingluck Shinawatra on Jan. 15 receives a bundle of rice from her supporters outside court just before her trial on charges of negligence commences.

 

BANGKOK — The military government’s decision to fine Yingluck Shinawatra for 35 billion baht over her rice subsidy program lacks clear legal grounding, a prominent critic of the former prime minister’s policy said Monday.

 

Economist Viroj Na Ranong said in an interview the punishment, under which she must pay an amount equal to USD$1 billion from her own pocket for the program’s losses, appeared disproportional.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/10/24/fining-yingluck-rice-subsidy-grey-area-critic-policy-says/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2016-10-24

[Cuchulainn]

Are these ham-fisted legal eagles going to let this eel slip through the net?

[ikke]

2 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

Are these ham-fisted legal eagles going to let this eel slip through the net?

 

With this eel, you mean Prayut ?

[rijb]

Will the military government fine themselves for their program losses, in the future?

[Thailand]

Clear legal grounding is trumped by A44.

[EricBerg]

It's a good thing the corrupt are being stripped of their assets. First time the people in the Kingdom can see that bad leaders cannot get away with their plunder. Now hope this fight will get followup to lower levels as well. It's a start, nothing more than that.

 

If the bad guy in Dubai manages to make a comeback, lil sis no doubt will be compensated with plenty of money from the national treasury. But, if in the now unclear future the military can prevent return to power by the shinaclan, then real progress will have been made. It would be an important step on the long, long road of cleaning up the Kingdom. 

 

In the one month before the Crownprince will be King, Prem can do much "cleaning" in the ranks of the military. This surely will help in preventing the return of the beast.

Edited October 24, 2016 by EricBerg

[djjamie]

"Former PM Yingluck Shinawatra on Jan. 15 receives a bundle of rice from her supporters"

 

Well it is virally worthless so why not substitute rice for flowers. Well done on the supporters (that can be counted on one hand) to come up with this great idea.

 

Valentines day, here we come. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by djjamie

[Thailand]

19 minutes ago, djjamie said:

"Former PM Yingluck Shinawatra on Jan. 15 receives a bundle of rice from her supporters"

 

Well it is virally worthless so why not substitute rice for flowers. Well done on the supporters (that can be counted on one hand) to come up with this great idea.

 

Valentines day, here we come. 

7%?

[jcsmith]

29 minutes ago, EricBerg said:

It's a good thing the corrupt are being stripped of their assets. First time the people in the Kingdom can see that bad leaders cannot get away with their plunder. Now hope this fight will get followup to lower levels as well. It's a start, nothing more than that.

 

If the bad guy in Dubai manages to make a comeback, lil sis no doubt will be compensated with plenty of money from the national treasury. But, if in the now unclear future the military can prevent return to power by the shinaclan, then real progress will have been made. It would be an important step on the long, long road of cleaning up the Kingdom. 

 

In the one month before the Crownprince will be King, Prem can do much "cleaning" in the ranks of the military. This surely will help in preventing the return of the beast.

Few things here. First and foremost its a dangerous precedent to set here. What happens every time a different party wins an election? Do they strip their adversaries of all their money from every failed policy? Why would anyone want a job where their personal finances can be taken if their ideas fail? 

It would be one thing if there was evidence that she profited at this for personal gain.It's another thing when they come after someone for a billion dollars because a policy failed. And where does this billion dollar number come from? They refused to sell the rice in storage after they took over. Moreover they snaked their way into power after Suthep threatened banks to not provide the government with a loan. Yes, the same Suthep who also went to a rally and told people to grab Yingluck and kidnap her if they saw her on the street. Yes in fact the same Suthep who also blocked voting polls and shut down government buildings. And yes the same Suthep who has never faced any sort of penalty for any of this. Instead they go after someone who didn't profit for a billion dollars? 

This is a witch hunt. An effort to steal money from their enemies on one hand, while trying to preach reconciliation to the public on the other. The junta has cost the country god knows how much money. They have damaged the economy and Thailand's world status. They are not only stealing money from their rivals, but they are stealing the citizens rights to a democratically elected government without any means other than we have the guns and you don't. And what happens when they get removed from power? The other side is going to want some payback and will come right back at them. How is that going to solve anything? Saying that you can take money from politicians who haven't been proven of corruption by exercising article 44 sets a precedent that will not be easy to undo. 

[sujoop]

Here's just ONE small sample in this supposedly 'innocent normal subsidy program' of a fictional China deal which links a red-shirt leader and a Pheu Thai party MP and a Thaksin insider:
 

Dummy firm tied to govt figures

*Guangzhou-based GSSG Import and Export Corporation, was actually represented by a Thai man called Rathanit Sojirakul, who later authorised Phichit-based Nimon Rakdi to (sign) a contract to purchase 5 million tonnes of rice on the company’s behalf. ...Rathanit was a close aide to Pheu Thai MP Rapeephan Phongruangrong, who is the wife of red-shirt leader Arisman Phongruangrong. ...Rathanit, who claimed to be the authorised representative of the Chinese firm, only has Bt64.63 in his bank account...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/politics/aec/30195106
 

Love this comment from Yingluck's (Thaksin's) Commerce minister:
“[After buying the rice] I won’t be investigating what buyers do with it,” he said.
 

Ok,  Yingluck + Commerce Minister obviously were not interested in investigating their corruption laden program but some may ask, what happened to the rice in this supposedly 'innocent normal subsidy deal'?
 

*The G-to-G deal was a fake because no rice was exported to the Chinese firm. Instead, the huge amount of milled rice was sold locally at below market price by the Foreign Trade Department to a ghost buyer who then sold the rice at market price to the two Thai firms which have their own rice mills and later on the same amount of rice were pledged with the government at pledging prices which are about 40 percent above market price. The gang, it was alleged, made double profits from the same amount of rice.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pm-yingluck-probed-connection-fake-rice-deal/

Thaksin speaks, Yingluck does and this is the result. This is not a case of mere mismanagement, nor a case of a normal subsidy program but a case of willful head-in-sand collusive criminal negligence on Yingluck's part.
 

Some on here believe Thaksin can do whatever he wants with the public's money since as Yingluck famously stated 'We came from election' (and to many Shin defenders, that's the extent of the standard for democracy). However, as we've seen in the past confiscate any of Thaksin's ill gotten gains (or pass a referendum) and !BOOM! all hell breaks loose. Fully expect much bigger !BOOMS! to come unfortunately...

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

53 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

Few things here. First and foremost its a dangerous precedent to set here. What happens every time a different party wins an election? Do they strip their adversaries of all their money from every failed policy? Why would anyone want a job where their personal finances can be taken if their ideas fail? 

It would be one thing if there was evidence that she profited at this for personal gain.It's another thing when they come after someone for a billion dollars because a policy failed. And where does this billion dollar number come from? They refused to sell the rice in storage after they took over. Moreover they snaked their way into power after Suthep threatened banks to not provide the government with a loan. Yes, the same Suthep who also went to a rally and told people to grab Yingluck and kidnap her if they saw her on the street. Yes in fact the same Suthep who also blocked voting polls and shut down government buildings. And yes the same Suthep who has never faced any sort of penalty for any of this. Instead they go after someone who didn't profit for a billion dollars? 

This is a witch hunt. An effort to steal money from their enemies on one hand, while trying to preach reconciliation to the public on the other. The junta has cost the country god knows how much money. They have damaged the economy and Thailand's world status. They are not only stealing money from their rivals, but they are stealing the citizens rights to a democratically elected government without any means other than we have the guns and you don't. And what happens when they get removed from power? The other side is going to want some payback and will come right back at them. How is that going to solve anything? Saying that you can take money from politicians who haven't been proven of corruption by exercising article 44 sets a precedent that will not be easy to undo. 

first paragraph.. only honest people would want a job then in government not those that use popular policies to get voted in at expense of the state treasury. 

 

YL was told by the world bank and many other independent organisations that this was not going to work. She was the one that led the rice program and said there were no losses (no money was budgeted for this program it was off books.. hence negligence). It was always touted as free of corruption and would not cost money. World bank and others said it was not so... people talked about fake g2g deals.. it was denied.. and now her closest ministers are involved.....  and a company linked to her family. It has been shown rice was rotten and stored badly. (YL said it was not true). Now a politician would have to do a lot of bad things to get in so deep as YL. But I am all for a precedent like this.. keeps that bad people out.

 

The junta is doing the right thing for once and all it will destroy the shins.. once that is done peace can come back to the kingdom. The puppeteer from Dubai wont be able to lead this country by proxy.  

[chainarong]

The  whole  shebang is a grey area,  Thai's have long memories and Prayut should  know that if the economy go's gaga or one of his policy's bites the dust he may well be asked to cough up the short fall at a later date , a dangerous precedent is set and a tit for tat may follow, crippling the Shin family or eradicating opposition may seem ideal , but that's only in the perfect political  world and Thailand is far from perfect

[candide]

49 minutes ago, sujoop said:

Here's just ONE small sample in this supposedly 'innocent normal subsidy program' of a fictional China deal which links a red-shirt leader and a Pheu Thai party MP and a Thaksin insider:
 

Dummy firm tied to govt figures

*Guangzhou-based GSSG Import and Export Corporation, was actually represented by a Thai man called Rathanit Sojirakul, who later authorised Phichit-based Nimon Rakdi to (sign) a contract to purchase 5 million tonnes of rice on the company’s behalf. ...Rathanit was a close aide to Pheu Thai MP Rapeephan Phongruangrong, who is the wife of red-shirt leader Arisman Phongruangrong. ...Rathanit, who claimed to be the authorised representative of the Chinese firm, only has Bt64.63 in his bank account...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/politics/aec/30195106
 

Love this comment from Yingluck's (Thaksin's) Commerce minister:
“[After buying the rice] I won’t be investigating what buyers do with it,” he said.
 

Ok,  Yingluck + Commerce Minister obviously were not interested in investigating their corruption laden program but some may ask, what happened to the rice in this supposedly 'innocent normal subsidy deal'?
 

*The G-to-G deal was a fake because no rice was exported to the Chinese firm. Instead, the huge amount of milled rice was sold locally at below market price by the Foreign Trade Department to a ghost buyer who then sold the rice at market price to the two Thai firms which have their own rice mills and later on the same amount of rice were pledged with the government at pledging prices which are about 40 percent above market price. The gang, it was alleged, made double profits from the same amount of rice.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pm-yingluck-probed-connection-fake-rice-deal/

Thaksin speaks, Yingluck does and this is the result. This is not a case of mere mismanagement, nor a case of a normal subsidy program but a case of willful head-in-sand collusive criminal negligence on Yingluck's part.
 

Some on here believe Thaksin can do whatever he wants with the public's money since as Yingluck famously stated 'We came from election' (and to many Shin defenders, that's the extent of the standard for democracy). However, as we've seen in the past confiscate any of Thaksin's ill gotten gains (or pass a referendum) and !BOOM! all hell breaks loose. Fully expect much bigger !BOOMS! to come unfortunately...

 

 

 

 

 

It's not one small sample. It's the only one they found despite all the energy spent by the NAAC, junta, etc... and currently under judicial process. 

 

Form a judicial point of view, you ask a very relevant question. Is it a standard procedure to check if the goods have been effectively exported, and if yes, who was in charge of it and did not check or did not report?

[Thailand]

The "Shins" comprise a lot more than Thaksin or Yingluck, something that is easily forgotten.

But I don't think they will forget.

[Eric Loh]

Gem of a qoute "does a government from a coup have the legitimacy to demand accountability from the government that it seized power from". More like a form of extortion from the position of power before judiciary process has concluded. Then the 44 to protect those involved with the executive order gave the impression of an agenda to force Yingluck to flee. I hope she don't flee and stand up to this bullying and appeal the Adminstrative Court. I think she stand a good chance in the appeal. 

[joeyg]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

first paragraph.. only honest people would want a job then in government not those that use popular policies to get voted in at expense of the state treasury. 

 

YL was told by the world bank and many other independent organisations that this was not going to work. She was the one that led the rice program and said there were no losses (no money was budgeted for this program it was off books.. hence negligence). It was always touted as free of corruption and would not cost money. World bank and others said it was not so... people talked about fake g2g deals.. it was denied.. and now her closest ministers are involved.....  and a company linked to her family. It has been shown rice was rotten and stored badly. (YL said it was not true). Now a politician would have to do a lot of bad things to get in so deep as YL. But I am all for a precedent like this.. keeps that bad people out.

 

The junta is doing the right thing for once and all it will destroy the shins.. once that is done peace can come back to the kingdom. The puppeteer from Dubai wont be able to lead this country by proxy.  

  Thank you but...  "Why ruin a good story with the truth" - Mark Twain

[sujoop]

1 hour ago, candide said:

2 hours ago, sujoop said:

Here's just ONE small sample in this supposedly 'innocent normal subsidy program' of a fictional China deal which links a red-shirt leader and a Pheu Thai party MP and a Thaksin insider:
 

Dummy firm tied to govt figures

*Guangzhou-based GSSG Import and Export Corporation, was actually represented by a Thai man called Rathanit Sojirakul, who later authorised Phichit-based Nimon Rakdi to (sign) a contract to purchase 5 million tonnes of rice on the company’s behalf. ...Rathanit was a close aide to Pheu Thai MP Rapeephan Phongruangrong, who is the wife of red-shirt leader Arisman Phongruangrong. ...Rathanit, who claimed to be the authorised representative of the Chinese firm, only has Bt64.63 in his bank account...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/politics/aec/30195106
 

Love this comment from Yingluck's (Thaksin's) Commerce minister:
“[After buying the rice] I won’t be investigating what buyers do with it,” he said.
 

Ok,  Yingluck + Commerce Minister obviously were not interested in investigating their corruption laden program but some may ask, what happened to the rice in this supposedly 'innocent normal subsidy deal'?
 

*The G-to-G deal was a fake because no rice was exported to the Chinese firm. Instead, the huge amount of milled rice was sold locally at below market price by the Foreign Trade Department to a ghost buyer who then sold the rice at market price to the two Thai firms which have their own rice mills and later on the same amount of rice were pledged with the government at pledging prices which are about 40 percent above market price. The gang, it was alleged, made double profits from the same amount of rice.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pm-yingluck-probed-connection-fake-rice-deal/

Thaksin speaks, Yingluck does and this is the result. This is not a case of mere mismanagement, nor a case of a normal subsidy program but a case of willful head-in-sand collusive criminal negligence on Yingluck's part.
 

Some on here believe Thaksin can do whatever he wants with the public's money since as Yingluck famously stated 'We came from election' (and to many Shin defenders, that's the extent of the standard for democracy). However, as we've seen in the past confiscate any of Thaksin's ill gotten gains (or pass a referendum) and !BOOM! all hell breaks loose. Fully expect much bigger !BOOMS! to come unfortunately...

 

 

 

 

 

It's not one small sample. It's the only one they found despite all the energy spent by the NAAC, junta, etc... and currently under judicial process. 

 

Form a judicial point of view, you ask a very relevant question. Is it a standard procedure to check if the goods have been effectively exported, and if yes, who was in charge of it and did not check or did not report?

 

Defending the Shins is almost like a fulltime 'job' for some it seems...

Actually, there are 853 cases of corruption in the rice scam/scheme and all done under the watch of the head of the program 'Ms Yingluck who was accused of turning a blind eye' (willfully). The Shins are actually lucky, the state is down est 8 billion USD and they're only being docked 1 billion USD - and in a pyriamd could still be well ahead. Meanwhile, the poorest farmers weren't even part of the program. The program was a fraud from the outset.

 

[joeyg]

4 minutes ago, sujoop said:

 

Defending the Shins is almost like a fulltime 'job' for some it seems...

Actually, there are 853 cases of corruption in the rice scam/scheme and all done under the watch of the head of the program 'Ms Yingluck who was accused of turning a blind eye' (willfully). The Shins are actually lucky, the state is down est 8 billion USD and they're only being docked 1 billion USD - and in a pyriamd could still be well ahead. Meanwhile, the poorest farmers weren't even part of the program. The program was a fraud from the outset.

 

Thank You.  It's bewildering how these bozos up in Issan still idolize them.  Poverty and ignorance.  A tragic combination.  The poor folks up in Issan were bought off very cheaply.  "Dirty Deeds and they're done Dirt Cheap."

 

[sujoop]

56 minutes ago, joeyg said:

1 hour ago, sujoop said:

 

Defending the Shins is almost like a fulltime 'job' for some it seems...

Actually, there are 853 cases of corruption in the rice scam/scheme and all done under the watch of the head of the program 'Ms Yingluck who was accused of turning a blind eye' (willfully). The Shins are actually lucky, the state is down est 8 billion USD and they're only being docked 1 billion USD - and in a pyriamd could still be well ahead. Meanwhile, the poorest farmers weren't even part of the program. The program was a fraud from the outset.

 

Thank You.  It's bewildering how these bozos up in Issan still idolize them.  Poverty and ignorance.  A tragic combination.  The poor folks up in Issan were bought off very cheaply.  "Dirty Deeds and they're done Dirt Cheap."

Please do  not add insult to injury by calling the poor people in Issan 'bozos'. Thaksin knowingly used/deceived  these folks  in order to add to the Shin clans multi-billions. At the least there needs to be massive paid skills re-training programs (solar, barber, mechanic, nails, beauty, welder, tech,  etc) . Give these folks a REAL chance at an improved future. The 8 Billion USD lost in the rice scam  would have done it many times over and changed many lives for the better forever (instead of lining a criminal and cronies pockets).

[greenchair]

I do understand why some posters think this was a scheme full of corruption and the government of the day is responsible. 

I don't understand why those same posters can be so naive to think anything has changed in regards to corruption, nepotism , and so on in large government projects. 

The only difference to me is, one group could be protested out and the other like it or lump it. 

[candide]

4 hours ago, sujoop said:

 

Defending the Shins is almost like a fulltime 'job' for some it seems...

Actually, there are 853 cases of corruption in the rice scam/scheme and all done under the watch of the head of the program 'Ms Yingluck who was accused of turning a blind eye' (willfully). The Shins are actually lucky, the state is down est 8 billion USD and they're only being docked 1 billion USD - and in a pyriamd could still be well ahead. Meanwhile, the poorest farmers weren't even part of the program. The program was a fraud from the outset.

 

There are 853 cases cited by the junta, on which they haven't disclosed anything, and which are not been subject to any judicial process. Oh, I know, we can trust them to provide accurate and unbiased information, at a convenient time. :)

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, joeyg said:

Thank You.  It's bewildering how these bozos up in Issan still idolize them.  Poverty and ignorance.  A tragic combination.  The poor folks up in Issan were bought off very cheaply.  "Dirty Deeds and they're done Dirt Cheap."

 

"Poverty and ignorance" indeed.  Prior to Thaksin the education and infrastructure spending outside of Bangkok was practically non-existent.  Thaksin diverted a small part of government spending to where the majority of Thai's were living in poverty and bought their loyalty cheaply.

 

Of course the governments controlled by the Bangkok elite could have done the same, but they suffered from arrogance and ignorance.   They still do--rather than enact policies that would benefit the entire election, they prefer to do away with democracy and keep power and wealth in Bangkok.

[webfact]

Yingluck punishment in rice scheme slammed as divisive
By The Nation

 

Yingluck

 

BANGKOK: -- A politician and a critic have questioned the Finance Ministry’s order to make former prime minister Yingluck Shinawtra pay Bt35 billion in compensation for the huge loss incurred by her government’s rice pledging scheme.

 

Pheu Thai Party’s politician Phumtham Wechayachai wrote on his Facebook page yesterday that the latest action taken against Yingluck was unfair and could bring about another round of conflict. 

Article 44 of the interim charter had been invoked to order that Yingluck was liable for damages caused to the state budget by the rice subsidisation policy and her assets could be frozen or seized by the Legal Execution Department if the former PM failed to obey the order.

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/politics/30298318

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2016-10-25

[Thechook]

Article 44 is a powerful thing.  No need for courts just have one man in Prayuth who has a personal grudge wave it.  Prayuth had better pray that he never loses power or else retribution is going to sting like hell and he will be in a great deal of hurt.  Politics Thai style, don't worry about the country just go after the opposition and it does matter who is in power.  If politicians could put away thier personal grievances the country might move forward.

[tbthailand]

12 hours ago, robblok said:

first paragraph.. only honest people would want a job then in government not those that use popular policies to get voted in at expense of the state treasury.

I don't think that you properly appreciate the implications of this policy.

 

Tip, it has nothing to do with the actual honesty or lack of honesty of the politician ... 

[greenchair]

Considering that she was sentenced before she has even been convicted in the court , says a lot about the fairness of this case 

[Rorri]

14 hours ago, EricBerg said:

It's a good thing the corrupt are being stripped of their assets. First time the people in the Kingdom can see that bad leaders cannot get away with their plunder. Now hope this fight will get followup to lower levels as well. It's a start, nothing more than that.

 

If the bad guy in Dubai manages to make a comeback, lil sis no doubt will be compensated with plenty of money from the national treasury. But, if in the now unclear future the military can prevent return to power by the shinaclan, then real progress will have been made. It would be an important step on the long, long road of cleaning up the Kingdom. 

 

In the one month before the Crownprince will be King, Prem can do much "cleaning" in the ranks of the military. This surely will help in preventing the return of the beast.

You like in a dream world. The " corrupt,"  have not yet been "stripped" of their assets, some have passed a law forbidding any such acts. As for the "shinclan", well they have simply been replaced by the cha cha clan. People really need to get over this Shinawatra hatered, move on.

[MaxLee]

Just another delay - melay

[robblok]

14 hours ago, chainarong said:

The  whole  shebang is a grey area,  Thai's have long memories and Prayut should  know that if the economy go's gaga or one of his policy's bites the dust he may well be asked to cough up the short fall at a later date , a dangerous precedent is set and a tit for tat may follow, crippling the Shin family or eradicating opposition may seem ideal , but that's only in the perfect political  world and Thailand is far from perfect

 

And what is wrong with Prayut having to cough up money if some of his policies are as rotten as the rice program ?. If anything this is a good precedent making sure that politicians can't do what they wan't without any risk if they severely messed up. 

 

It would all make them a bit more careful with the taxpayers money as they should. 

[yellowboat]

16 hours ago, Thailand said:

Clear legal grounding is trumped by A44.

 

You do wonder if the junta is willing to do such a thing.  Investors will see this as a clear indicator to stay away.  Reputation wise this could hurt Thailand even more.