Aussies! Consular officials seek your feedback on their new Consular Strategy

[Lizard2010]

This is for Information Only    Aussies! Consular officials seek your feedback on their new Consular Strategy

The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade published its first three-year consular strategy in 2014 and is now seeking your input on the next three year strategy. When submitting concerns it is important to note that the Australian government cannot interfere in the sovereign entry and exit or legal processes of another country. Nor can Australian consular officials conduct police investigations or force Australians to comply with the wishes of their concerned families at home. But these requests are often made of their staff. The development of the second Consular Strategy is an important step in helping all Australians understand the consular role, and what we can and cannot do. It is also an important avenue for us to hear from Australian travelers and we invite you to provide your comments. The discussion paper here talks about the strategic needs that should be addressed. You must submit in writing and it must be received by 18th November 2016. Submissions should address the questions identified in the Issues Paper, although comments are welcome on all relevant matters. Submit to: Consular Strategy Team Consular and Crisis Management Division Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade RG Casey Building Barton ACT 0221 AUSTRALIA Or by email to: [email protected] All submissions, whether made by organisations or individuals, will be treated as public documents and made available on the Department’s website. If you wish for your submission to be treated as confidential, in whole or in part, please note this in writing at the time of making your submission. No personal information other than the name of the individual submitters will be disclosed

[elgordo38]

Hurry this is a limited time offer. Imagine your government is asking you for advice. Incredible!!

[monkey4u]

This is off topic but I wish the Australian Embassy would employ a few security people with common sense

In the past few years each time I visit the place a woman with no brain keeps telling me I have to go up 3 flights of stairs

She appears to not want to call the department I require to send an escort to take me in the elevator

I wonder if she would say the same to someone in a wheel chair

[crutchy26]

Please, EVERYONE, send the message about the Australian Embassy in Bangkok wrt the Letter/affidavit for proof of income. The UK embassy does it. I have been in 'their ears for a long time, and I'm not getting any answers. It will take numbers for them to consider this. Please spread the word

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, crutchy26 said:

Please, EVERYONE, send the message about the Australian Embassy in Bangkok wrt the Letter/affidavit for proof of income. The UK embassy does it. I have been in 'their ears for a long time, and I'm not getting any answers. It will take numbers for them to consider this. Please spread the word

Don't they just do what any sensible Embassy would do - "Here's what so and so told us; it may or may not be a pack of lies and frankly we don't care"? It's pretty much what the American Embassy does

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, elgordo38 said:

Hurry this is a limited time offer. Imagine your government is asking you for advice. Incredible!!

All for show.They will ignore everything and do what THEY want,as per usual.Call me cynical,but only with govt propaganda,such as"we consulted with the public,blah,blah,blah."

[hobobo]

3 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Hurry this is a limited time offer. Imagine your government is asking you for advice. Incredible!!

I wish the Brits would follow suit, but it ain't gonna happen, ever

[elgordo38]

1 minute ago, hobobo said:

I wish the Brits would follow suit, but it ain't gonna happen, ever

 

1 minute ago, hobobo said:

I wish the Brits would follow suit, but it ain't gonna happen, ever

The governments around the world could tear a page from this playbook but they are all to busy looking important. They are still under the illusion that we care. 

[NancyL]

3 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Don't they just do what any sensible Embassy would do - "Here's what so and so told us; it may or may not be a pack of lies and frankly we don't care"? It's pretty much what the American Embassy does

The American and Australians are Embassies are notarizing a statutory declaration, i.e. verifying the identity of the person swearing the statement, much as they would notarize a Power of Attorney or Final Will.  It's not their job to verify the veracity of what is being claimed on the document.  How could they?  People have private sources of income, like rental and investment income that aren't known to the staff at the Embassy/Consulate.  It's not the job of the Consular employees to enforce  the of Thai Immigration.  

 

At the American Consulate, hey do ask the person swearing the oath if the statement they are signing is true, just as they ask someone bringing in another type of document, like a Power of Attorney, if they can explain the document they're signing.  If they see signs of reduced mental capacity, they won't notarize the signature.  i.e., they don't notarize the thumbprint of someone in a coma.  It's a federal crime to lie to a federal official when swearing an oath.  I imagine the rules are much the same for the Aussies.  

[hml367]

4 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Don't they just do what any sensible Embassy would do - "Here's what so and so told us; it may or may not be a pack of lies and frankly we don't care"? It's pretty much what the American Embassy does

 

Not exactly true.  Of course everyone has an opinion and some will say they know someone who lied.  The notary at the U.S. Consulate does not have to notarize the affidavit if they believe it is untrue.  See the 4th bullet in this excerpt from the Chiang Mai U.S. Consulate web site regarding Notarial Services.

 

We may refuse to provide a notary service when:

• the person executing the document does not understand the nature, language or consequences of the document
• the host country does not authorize the performance of the service
• the document will be used in transactions or for purposes that may be prohibited by U.S. law
• we believe that the document will be used for a purpose that is unlawful, improper, or inimical to the best interests of the United States
• we cannot understand the document, due to language or any other reason.

 

[mamborobert]

An Oz Stat Dec has the following as the last lines of Pg 1 directly after the signatures and seal.

 

Note 1   A person who intentionally makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence, the punishment for which is imprisonment for a term of 4 years — see section 11 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

Note 2   Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code applies to all offences against the Statutory Declarations Act 1959 — see section 5A of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

 

I would also ask that people do not write to the Bangok Embassy (they are probably busy enough) about getting letters similar to the UK,  Oz Citizens can already get Stat Decs from the outreach service.  The outreach serrvice is very good and provides for a lot more services that just Retirement/Mariage Income Stat Decs.   Anything that lessens demand here for Stat Decs for income also may lessen demands for the outreach service that other expats need, or the regularity of the outreach service.

 

The Outreach Service is convenient, easy to use, well publicicised, regular, saves much more costs through a  trip and stay in Bangkok,  and I for one am very happy with it

 

 

Edited November 1, 2016 by mamborobert

[Lizard2010]

1 minute ago, mamborobert said:

An Oz Stat Dec has the following as the last lines of Pg 1 directly after the signatures and seal.

 

Note 1   A person who intentionally makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence, the punishment for which is imprisonment for a term of 4 years — see section 11 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

Note 2   Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code applies to all offences against the Statutory Declarations Act 1959 — see section 5A of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

 

I would also ask that people do not write to the Bangok Embassy (they are probably busy enough) about getting letters similar to the UK,  Oz Citizens can already get Stat Decs from the outreach service.  The outreach serrvice is very good and provides for a lot more services that just Retirement/Mariage Income Stat Decs.   Anything that lessens demand here for Stat Decs for income also may lessen demands for the outreach service that other expats need, or the regularity of the outreach service.

 

The Outreach Service is convenient, easy to use, well publicicised, regular, saves much more costs through a  trip and stay in Bangkok,  and I for one am very happy with it

 

 

I have been advise from the Australian Embassy in Bangkok they are going through the process of selecting there Chiang Mai Consulor  He will not be able to sign ANYTHING

That is why the Outreach will still come to Chiang Mai

 

 

 

[hml367]

16 minutes ago, mamborobert said:

An Oz Stat Dec has the following as the last lines of Pg 1 directly after the signatures and seal.

 

Note 1   A person who intentionally makes a false statement in a statutory declaration is guilty of an offence, the punishment for which is imprisonment for a term of 4 years — see section 11 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

Note 2   Chapter 2 of the Criminal Code applies to all offences against the Statutory Declarations Act 1959 — see section 5A of the Statutory Declarations Act 1959.

 

I would also ask that people do not write to the Bangok Embassy (they are probably busy enough) about getting letters similar to the UK,  Oz Citizens can already get Stat Decs from the outreach service.  The outreach serrvice is very good and provides for a lot more services that just Retirement/Mariage Income Stat Decs.   Anything that lessens demand here for Stat Decs for income also may lessen demands for the outreach service that other expats need, or the regularity of the outreach service.

 

The Outreach Service is convenient, easy to use, well publicicised, regular, saves much more costs through a  trip and stay in Bangkok,  and I for one am very happy with it

 

 

 

I agree.   If people start making a fuss (look at what happened at Immigration as a whole, and the letters for residency in particular ), then Immigration may stop accepting these affidavits or whatever they are called somewhere besides the U.S. Consulate.

 

People probably do not even know why they started to be accepted, at least from the U.S. Consulate, in first place. 

 

There always seems to be a few people that are not satisfied and want things to be different.  That may be ok to a point. BUT, expecting things to work like their home country or trying to use "remedies" from their home country to affect changes apparently do not have much knowledge of how things work here.  My opinion, of course.

 

I am sure there are some people, the usual ones, that will be quick to point out why this and why that.  I never had problems with Immigration until people started to complain and offer "fixes" around 2004.  This, of course, does not include the influx of many more foreigners.  My experience is that the Thai people will make adjustments.  They just don't seem to make the adjustments as fast as "back home"  (that is sarcastic).

[Sparkles]

11 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

I have been advise from the Australian Embassy in Bangkok they are going through the process of selecting there Chiang Mai Consulor  He will not be able to sign ANYTHING

That is why the Outreach will still come to Chiang Mai

 

 

 

So what is his/her function ? attending  cocktail parties ,photo PR shoots? Why appoint someone who has no authority ,how ever will meaning they are.

I wrote ,many months ago,a very polite, registered letter to the Australian Embassy in Bangkok regarding the shambles at CM Immigration.

Not only no response ,not even an acknlowledgement of receipt

 

 

 

[Lizard2010]

4 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

So what is his/her function ? attending  cocktail parties ,photo PR shoots? Why appoint someone who has no authority ,how ever will meaning they are.

I wrote ,many months ago,a very polite, registered letter to the Australian Embassy in Bangkok regarding the shambles at CM Immigration.

Not only no response ,not even an acknlowledgement of receipt

 

 

 

Maybe you need to go see them personalty with a copy of letter or email

Ask for a response there in font of people

They might start to take you serious

I do believe they know

but as you know its poltics

plus yes it is a PR Job with no power to do anything

 

[mamborobert]

They do not have the discretion to give the Honorary Consul JP powers that would be valid for Stat Decs. I asked this at last outreach visit and posted same. 

 

"I did ask the Embassy A based officer if there was any intention of letting Hon Consul sign stat decs ....one word answer "Never".  Apparently current legislation does not allow for this, no plans, not a priority, to change. I queried arrangements regarding the QLD (as I recall) JP here, was advised that QLD has unique legislation that continues to permit authority  ( I imagine this would be only for QLD state related business but not sure)."

 

ps there was a consular uniformed guy there iwith a name badge saying hon Consul Chiang Mai....so they may have appointed already but have not seen anything public yet....from memory only I think it was Ross Elliott? Unless he is a temp stand in. But he was helping with numbering system and seemed to know a few who rocked up. Maybe one of those could chip in.

 

As far as role there is trade and local liaison like organising and assisting outreach service or people in trouble etc etc....not just expat visa issues which seem adequately addressed by outreach given that Stat Dec by Thai Regs has a 6 month validity.

 

as a Simple PR job it would suck a bit....not the same cocktail circuit  or support mechanisms as Bangkok.

Edited November 1, 2016 by mamborobert

[Sparkles]

Sorry going to Bangkok and speaking to a person through a plate class window, who is most likely Thai, is simply a waste of time.

 

We have this huge piece of real estate in Bangkok, aka our Consulate, which to all purposes is just a huge white elephant.

 

All visa services were outsourced to a Thai company many years ago.This is the way of the world sadly.

 

I guess the Outreach Tour Group enjoy their working holiday in CM and the Australian taxpayers pay for it.Apologies for being so cynical but what is the point of having a consular person in CM,in these days of the internet, who has no authority and wil probably advise you to contact Bangkok

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Hurry this is a limited time offer. Imagine your government is asking you for advice. Incredible!!

 

Quite amusing that you think that because someone asks you for your opinion that they'll pay any attention to what you say. 

 

They could be assembling a book of amusing things that constituents think/say . And judging by this thread it would be a real knee-slapper.

[Suradit69]

16 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

Sorry going to Bangkok and speaking to a person through a plate class window, who is most likely Thai, is simply a waste of time.

 

We have this huge piece of real estate in Bangkok, aka our Consulate, which to all purposes is just a huge white elephant.

 

All visa services were outsourced to a Thai company many years ago.This is the way of the world sadly.

 

I guess the Outreach Tour Group enjoy their working holiday in CM and the Australian taxpayers pay for it.Apologies for being so cynical but what is the point of having a consular person in CM,in these days of the internet, who has no authority and wil probably advise you to contact Bangkok

" I guess the Outreach Tour Group enjoy their working holiday in CM and the Australian taxpayers pay for it. "

 

Not sure about the Australian Outreach, but the American Embassy charges US$50 for 30 seconds of their time to sign & stamp a document, which is one of the cheaper charges. It's probably one of the few services the Federal government provides where the taxpayer doesn't subsidize the outcome and suffer a net loss. If the embassy staff didn't travel for Outreach programs they'd just be sitting in an air conditioned office playing games on their computers. 

 

While it's true that most of the people who come to the program would have to visit the Embassy for the same service, by congregating so many in a single uncomfortable venue and servicing them in assembly line fashion, it's probably one of the few things the embassy staff does efficiently.

[evenstevens]

E/S was there a couple weeks ago,(same day as that seminar)and was given great service as always , and  know for a fact, that they are not interested in the poor services given by   the C/Mai immgr dept, at this point of time,as it is, not any of their business,and rightly so,( that may change of course,) really its not a mission impossible  or life threatening  task,  to do your business with the immgr dept is it??

Mambo Roberts post  #16  is on the money

a nice  Almanda  evening to all

 

 

[Lizard2010]

You will find

it is the Thailand Government

that decides this.

not our Embassy

it is different with the Americans

enough said in the subject

it is meant for information only

 

[evenstevens]

2 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

You will find

it is the Thailand Government

that decides this.

not our Embassy

it is different with the Americans

enough said in the subject

it is meant for information only

 

 

why is it different with the Amercians???

[SaintLouisBlues]

10 hours ago, NancyL said:

It's a federal crime to lie to a federal official when swearing an oath.  I imagine the rules are much the same for the Aussies.  

Sure - what's the risk of ever being caught? Indeed, how would you get caught? The only evidence that you ever swore that affidavit is sitting in some government basement in Bangkok - maybe

[NancyL]

The Australian Honorary Consul designee is Ron Elliott and he did indeed come to the "Long-stay Challenges" seminar at the Empress after things had quieted down with the Embassy outreach at Le Meridien on October 21.  He was there for the all-important portion of the seminar when the Minister of Tourism appeared.  And while his appointment has not yet been signed off by the Royal household, for obvious reasons, the local Consular Corp has been including him in all their meetings and functions for several months.

 

I can't speak directly about Ron, but would like to educate folks about what Honorary Consuls actually do.  The social aspect of their appointment is the most visible, because photos we all see online of them at various events.  But good consuls do much more.  They're the first to visit one of their countryman in jail.  They come to the bedside of those who suffer serious injury or illness.  They respond to emails and  even phone calls from those in need.  The Embassy calls on them to be their representative to help their nationals in Chiang Mai.  And they do all this for very modest remuneration, in fact they probably end up paying much of their cost of "operation" out of their own pockets.  Going to those nice parties you see in the photos is one of the few perks of the job.  

[Saan]

21 hours ago, NancyL said:

The Australian Honorary Consul designee is Ron Elliott and he did indeed come to the "Long-stay Challenges" seminar at the Empress after things had quieted down with the Embassy outreach at Le Meridien on October 21.  He was there for the all-important portion of the seminar when the Minister of Tourism appeared.  And while his appointment has not yet been signed off by the Royal household, for obvious reasons, the local Consular Corp has been including him in all their meetings and functions for several months.

 

I can't speak directly about Ron, but would like to educate folks about what Honorary Consuls actually do.  The social aspect of their appointment is the most visible, because photos we all see online of them at various events.  But good consuls do much more.  They're the first to visit one of their countryman in jail.  They come to the bedside of those who suffer serious injury or illness.  They respond to emails and  even phone calls from those in need.  The Embassy calls on them to be their representative to help their nationals in Chiang Mai.  And they do all this for very modest remuneration, in fact they probably end up paying much of their cost of "operation" out of their own pockets.  Going to those nice parties you see in the photos is one of the few perks of the job.  

Ron was nominated many months ago but for some reason his appointment has not as yet been formalised. Unfortunately his position has been stripped of almost all powers, such as they were, that the former honorary consul Mike Walther had - hence the outreach.

As for the modest remuneration that Nancy mentioned it is so modest that it adds up to zilch. Not a satang do they receive, not even for expenses, so I am grateful for whatever they do on our behalf.

[Si Thea01]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 0:35 PM, monkey4u said:

This is off topic but I wish the Australian Embassy would employ a few security people with common sense

In the past few years each time I visit the place a woman with no brain keeps telling me I have to go up 3 flights of stairs

She appears to not want to call the department I require to send an escort to take me in the elevator

I wonder if she would say the same to someone in a wheel chair

 

Yes, I had the same problem last time I visited and although I was not in a wheel chair my disabilities are such that traversing stairs is difficult and painful for me.  I politely told her, in Thai, that if she persisted with that attitude then she could call her supervisor and I would wait there until she did.

 

I've never seen such a shocked look on someone's face, I don't know if it was because I could speak Thai or that she would lose face if I complained to her supervisor.  A guy turned up within a few minutes and was there to escort me down when I finished my business.   

[monkey4u]

It makes laugh when you think if she picked up her phone, there is no problem

My wife was not happy about things and did complain to her supervisor