I've been conned by a Westerner.. need advice please

[recycler]

The police won't help you and a lawyer would cost you more than you lost.

 

Take you loss, a lesson learned and move on.

[Chicog]

If you have time on your hands, then you could go the route of gathering evidence of his wrong doings if he's employing people or working illegally etc.

Then simply tell him you want your money or it goes to the appropriate authorities.

If it's worth more to him to pay you off, he will. If he doesn't, stitch him up.

At least that way you can draw a line under it.

If, on the other hand, you can't find anything on him, then draw a line under it anyway.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Chicog

[amykat]

2 hours ago, Headgame said:

Disregard all suggestions to take some sort of strong arm tactics or steal some of the assets of the new company. Both approaches will result in significantly more hassle then the loss of your investment.
 

I have no idea what having your name on the paperwork actually means but if your money was an investment, then, like all investments, you can either win or lose. The company could have either taken formal steps to dissolve or more likely, simply let it be deregistered by the state for inactivity. In most cases, there will be little if any money to be distributed to shareholders upon dissolutions. Assets are generally seized by business creditors.

 

The fact that a new company was set up conducting the same business by the same individuals is probably not going to give you any leverage. Threatening to report them to immigration or other governmental agencies will not get you any money and may in fact backfire on you. The reasons are that Thailand has very strict rules regarding defamation while threatening criminal charges in order to obtain repayment of an investment may trigger extiortion charges against you.

 

As stated by others, walk away, learn your lesson and be much more cautious about investments here in Thailand, in future.

 

Please read and re-read this post.  Take special note of what it says about extortion charges ..this is very serious and true. Other people, who got away with crap and cons for years, finally got taken down for exactly that ...I think I may not be allowed to say who ...a famous fake lawyer in Pattaya. 

 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

On 11/10/2016 at 11:33 AM, mcfish said:

Send a couple of moto taxi guys to give him a good beating then ask him again.. Rinse n repeat..

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

once you start this cycle of violence you will get hooked into it. the company is closed so the money is gone. it is hard but the best piece of advice i can give you is to forget this happened. i have done 10 years in business and any one here doing business here long enough will have a story about loosing money. myself included. treat it as a 200k thb lesson. yours was cheap compared to many others i have seen learnt (or not learnt) in thailand.

[amykat]

9 minutes ago, Chicog said:

If you have time on your hands, then you could go the route of gathering evidence of his wrong doings if he's employing people or working illegally etc.

Then simply tell him you want your money or it goes to the appropriate authorities.

If it's worth more to him to pay you off, he will. If he doesn't, stitch him up.

At least that way you can draw a line under it.

If, on the other hand, you can't find anything on him, then draw a line under it anyway.

 

 

 

Sorry, but that is extortion and illegal ...he could go to prison for that.

[Monkeyrobot]

Move on , get payback later , he will always be looking over his shoulder and remind him of that. 

[amykat]

This is not Thailand specific obviously but let's just assume for now the basics apply:

 

The specific elements required to prove extortion differ between states, but the general requirements are that the offender maliciously (not mistakenly) make a verbal, written or printed threat with the intent to extort something from the victim or to compel the victim to do something against his or her will. Generally, it is irrelevant whether or not the offender actually succeeds in the attempted extortion. Once the threat is made, the offender has committed extortion. In some jurisdictions, and under the federal extortion definition, the victim does not even have to hear or receive the threat in order for the offender to be charged with extortion. 

Extortion does not usually require that the offender threaten to commit a criminal act as long as the threat attempts to obtain money, property, or to force the victim to act against their will. For example, a threat to bring criminal charges or file a police report unless money is paid is still extortion, even though the offender may have every right to file a police report. By coupling the legal act with the illegal act of demanding payment to not act, the offender has committed extortion. Note, however, that a threat to file a civil lawsuit typically is not considered extortion even if that lawsuit is frivolous. 

Read more: http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent_crimes/extortion.htm#ixzz4Pfn0zsVH
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
DELETED

Edited November 11, 2016 by seedy
LINK

[seedy]

Post Removed - Forum Rule -

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.
 

[watcharacters]

16 hours ago, Berkshire said:

 

I've been in Thailand 10+ years and have never been conned the way the OP has.  If you are "unable to trust people in a country," it's more about you.  It has nothing to do with the country. 

 

 

 

Couldn't this be called "blaming the victim"  He unfortunately got conned by a falang in Thailand.  The OP did not slag off Thailand so no reason to slag off the OP.

 

If you are "unable to trust people in a country," it's more about you.  It has nothing to do with the country. 

 

[lostinisaan]

On 11/10/2016 at 11:33 AM, mcfish said:

Send a couple of moto taxi guys to give him a good beating then ask him again.. Rinse n repeat..

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

 

 

 

      A broken knee cap ( for example) would definitely make him start to think. Use your  imagination, I wouldn't just walk away. 

[Pat in Pattaya]

I hate people like this, think they can do what they want with impunity.

 

You sound like a good bloke, as said it wasn't a fortune you lost so could have been worse...I say you should do 2 things, either go round there and punch the fella on the nose or try to forget about it and move on..

[jonbsails]

Whatever actions you take,under no circumstances threaten them or issue ultimatums. For God's sake, do NOT blab about your situation. If you do make an issue, you are precluded from administering a good old-fashioned hired-hand knee-capping. And truly, this is a modest rip-off. Let things chill for a cpla months then put him to the hospital. Send flowers.

[jonbsails]

Or do the same thing done in free enterprise. The debt is sold for a dime on the dollar. Then the bill-collector collects however much they can. Yeah, I have seen some undesirable outcomes for these deadbeats. Just keep in mind.....they have no intention on repaying you. You can always just take your lumps, chalking it up to 200k baht lesson (as aforementioned).

[abrahamzvi]

On 11/10/2016 at 11:35 AM, sirmud63 said:

yes , rule number 1 .  never spend anything here that you carnt afford to loose .

What you are saying is not only nonsense, but it is vicious. Of course there are crooks in Thailand, Thais and foreigners - you read about scams every day, the same way that there are such people everywhere in the world, UNFORTUNATELY!. However, if one invest one's money cleverly in Thailand one can make a good return on one's investment. I would suggest that both of you look around and read papers. I do not with to mention names , but one of the richest families in Thailand are of German origin and they started here in Thailand with practically nothing. Thailand is the same as other countries, it possibly offers more possibilities to cleverly invest money and make an excellent return . However, if one is an idiot, investing monies without proper caution, then that person will most probably lose his/her investment im most countries, including Thailand!

[Berkshire]

6 hours ago, Gringogazzer said:

Balls.
People take what they believe they can get away with. In a country with robust law enforcement people are hesitant & think twice.
It's an indictment of the country, not the person.

 

Are you telling me that most/all of the people that you've met in Thailand want to rip you off?  Seriously? 

[HerbalEd]

You did sign  a well written legal contract with this guy, right? If so, it should protect you against what he has done. It's an old trick starting a company with a partner and/or other people's money, then closing that company and starting the same company again with a different name and location, while previous partners and investors are left out in the cold. 

 

 

 

[HerbalEd]

On 11/10/2016 at 11:25 AM, KittenKong said:

Sadly I suspect that you will never see your money. You can be thankful that it was only 200kB. Others have lost much more.

 

My advice is directed to all other readers: never trust anyone in Thailand and never invest in anything here unless you can easily afford to lose the money.

So, never invest anything in Thailand unless you can easily afford to lose the money???? Actually that's what I'd advise anyone investing in any country in the world.

 

Don't assume Thailand is any worse than any other country. Ever hear of the multi-billion dollar rip off done by American and British banks? And not one of them busted by so-called law-enforcement.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

Couldn't this be called "blaming the victim"  He unfortunately got conned by a falang in Thailand.  The OP did not slag off Thailand so no reason to slag off the OP.

 

If you are "unable to trust people in a country," it's more about you.  It has nothing to do with the country. 

 

We can mostly recognise untrustworthy people in our own countries, although have the odd bad experience over builders and the like.  Fortunately, only small amounts of money are generally involved.

 

Not always the case obviously,  but its far more prevalent to come across untrustworthy Westerners here - and with large sums of money involved.

 

If the OP has moved here and the man who 'robbed' him stays here - he stands some chance, but it will likely cost him as much as he regains.

 

He's entirely screwed however, if the other man moves abroad/back home.  I know, as I've 'been there and done that'.....

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

The OP doesn't even know if he was a shareholder or not.

He said his name was on the company papers which indicates he was a shareholder. To find out if he was a shareholder will not be too difficult and dont need to cost too much. If he was a shareholder he has a choice between a civil case which will cost him money or opening a fraud case or both. If he does have the money he should go with a criminal case which he then can follow with a civil case. 

[CaptHaddock]

3 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

The vast majority spend way less than that.

 

180,000,000 Americans earn some two thirds of it, with the median US income of around USD 25,000.

 

Over 80% of Americans could not scrape USD 6,000 together in cash in an emergency, they are all paying off the debt load.

 

Jus' sayin'.

 

 

What is it you enjoy about making up wrong statistics out of thin air?  Median household income in the US is about $54,000/yr while median personal income is about $33,000/yr.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

 

 

[watcharacters]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

We can mostly recognise untrustworthy people in our own countries, although have the odd bad experience over builders and the like.  Fortunately, only small amounts of money are generally involved.

 

Not always the case obviously,  but its far more prevalent to come across untrustworthy Westerners here - and with large sums of money involved.

 

If the OP has moved here and the man who 'robbed' him stays here - he stands some chance, but it will likely cost him as much as he regains.

 

He's entirely screwed however, if the other man moves abroad/back home.  I know, as I've 'been there and done that'.....

 

I fully agree with your post dick dasterdly,

 

I do not however agree   with some  taking a jab at a fellow who did no wrong but had wrong done to him. 

 

Yeah, cut off all his extremities  if he made an error in trusting someone who spoke smoothly while  the perp  may have been holding a knife in a hand behind the victims  back.

 

I think anyone who buys shares  in a company on the NYSE or NASDAQ  would  be equally guilty of failing to actively participate in  a  company's  activities. 

 

But of course, this is THV and we all know about attitudes and unhappy people and such..

Edited November 11, 2016 by watcharacters

[watcharacters]

53 minutes ago, HerbalEd said:

You did sign  a well written legal contract with this guy, right? If so, it should protect you against what he has done. It's an old trick starting a company with a partner and/or other people's money, then closing that company and starting the same company again with a different name and location, while previous partners and investors are left out in the cold. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I may have missed that.

 

Did the  say the OP signed a well written legal contract or are those just your words?

 

If he said it would you please quote it.   Thanks.

Edited November 11, 2016 by watcharacters

[watcharacters]

50 minutes ago, HerbalEd said:

So, never invest anything in Thailand unless you can easily afford to lose the money???? Actually that's what I'd advise anyone investing in any country in the world.

 

Don't assume Thailand is any worse than any other country. Ever hear of the multi-billion dollar rip off done by American and British banks? And not one of them busted by so-called law-enforcement.

 

 

 

herb,

 

Why don't you move here full time?

 

 

[Blackheart1916]

You were young and foolish , its not a lot of money, you showed bugger all interest, it was a couple of years ago. Let it go mate.

[off road pat]

On 11/10/2016 at 5:25 AM, KittenKong said:

Sadly I suspect that you will never see your money. You can be thankful that it was only 200kB. Others have lost much more.

 

My advice is directed to all other readers: never trust anyone in Thailand and never invest in anything here unless you can easily afford to lose the money.

I would give the same advice,....never invest what you can not afford to walk away from....

[tifino]

Naming and Shaming will work, but depends upon the approach:

 

Going to Court will ruffle some feathers,

 

and putting their company name onto all known social media will definitely elicit a response to draw them out,

 

but then in LOS, you'd be done for defamation

[watcharacters]

27 minutes ago, tifino said:

Naming and Shaming will work, but depends upon the approach:

 

Going to Court will ruffle some feathers,

 

and putting their company name onto all known social media will definitely elicit a response to draw them out,

 

but then in LOS, you'd be done for defamation

 

 

Only if he's in  THAILAND..

[tifino]

4 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Only if he's in  THAILAND..

 

isn't he?

[little mary sunshine]

Lesson learned.   Research people and businesses 

B4 you invest!!

[joeyg]

Please don't consider the advice given here to make violence part of the solution.  I was raised in a culture/way that promoted that.  It really is a losing proposition. IMHO violence is the lowest form of human consciousness and should only be employed defending your own life or the life of a defenseless child, woman or elderly person.  Tempting as it may be.

 

I can assure you most of the people giving advice on breaking knee caps, "contracts" and extortion, are, well, some of the kinds of farangs I've been recommending you avoid.  In fairness there were a few that gave you the right advice, to walk away.

 

You're young.  Take the hit and move on.  It can be done but it's hard for a farang to "win" in Thailand.  I have several long time friends that have been here over 35 years.  "Never" a good report about an attorney.

 

It may be a "tough pill to swallow." Again you do have youth on your side.  Learn a bitter lesson and don't take unsound advice from unbalanced individuals.  Be careful and take care of #1.  No one else will.  Good luck.