US Jews grapple with election-year eruption of anti-Semitism

[abrahamzvi]

3 hours ago, jimmyyy said:

legitimate source please?  How many times have the Arabs invaded Israel?  I see we disagree here on what the facts are.  It matters not, the new administration with the congress will now secure Israel for years to come.  Thank you for the discussion.

I wouldn't be so sure about it. Further, What is your reaction to the racial attitude (also against Jews) of some of the pro Trump troops?

Why don't the Palestinians have a state? Because Israel occupies and encourages Israelis to build settlements in areas which were supposed to constitute a Palestinian state. May I remind you of the Oslo agreement signed by Israel in 1992?

[jimmyyy]

Trump does not control who endorses him.  The Arabs have broken every seize fire that has ever been brokered, every piece deal.   You are making things up if you think there are anti Semites in his cabinet or on his staff.  I am done with peace in Palestine, they can reap what they sow.

 

 

[abrahamzvi]

57 minutes ago, coma said:

 

There is a flip side to every coin. Should all Muslims be held accountable for the actions of the radical elements of their faith ? No. But it does. It clearly influences large portions of non Muslim's opinions of Muslims the world over.

So my point is that Israel's actions do influence some people's perceptions of all Jews. Just as Islamic terrorism influences some people's view of all Muslims. That is human behaviour.

Both of you are right. However, Israel tries to speak for the worldwide Jews (PM Netanyahu in his speeches always refers to the Jewish people, ignoring the fact that he is the Prime Minister of Israel, of which 20% of its citizens are non Jews) and Jewish organizations in the US and in some other countries seem to put the interest of Israel before the interests of their countries (the best example is AIPAC in the US). However, I think it is of utmost importance not to identify the negative and/or positive characteristics and actions of Israel with Jews worldwide.

[simple1]

14 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

Trump does not control who endorses him.  The Arabs have broken every seize fire that has ever been brokered, every piece deal.   You are making things up if you think there are anti Semites in his cabinet or on his staff.  I am done with peace in Palestine, they can reap what they sow.

 

 

 

Bannnon - Time of Israel article

 

Stephen Bannon:-  5 things Jews need to know

 

http://www.timesofisrael.com/stephen-bannon-5-things-jews-need-to-know/

[Thorgal]

OP is related to latest results of the US presidential elections.

So far, nothing to do directly or explecitely with Israel.

HR Clinton was mainly backed by (neighboring) States with clear influence at West-Coast of Hollywood and East-Coast of Wall Street.

Can be seen on this map :





Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Jingthing]

Jews in the USA and other places (Europe) are now facing hatred from BOTH the left and the right.

This situation is very complicated and reading the posts so far, I don't find any responses that really understand what is happening.

 

American Jews are overwhelming liberal/left.

Israel Jews are overwhelmingly right wing, often offensively so.

 

But American Jews overwhelming support the right of Israel to exist and defend itself, even if not agreeing with all policies or governments there.

In recent years with the rise of the BDS movement, etc., liberal/leftist Jews have felt a significant increase in  "anti-Zionism" which is very often (but of course not always) thinly veiled anti-semitism because for the most part American Jews resist BDS, etc.

 

So that part isn't very new. Jews have historically been very involved with the American left but now are rejected by much of the American left when they express support for the existence of Israel "Zionism" (which most American Jews do feel). 

 

But wait, there's more, since trump.

 

With the rise of the ultra nationalist, mostly white (non-Jewish white), authoritarian anti-immigrant trumpist movement, much more overt "traditional" antisemitism has emerged in the USA from the RIGHT WING as well.

 

An example. Visible Jews on twitter are being hate bombed with disgusting hate messages largely from the RIGHT WING. Explicit Nazi messages suggesting burning in ovens to more mild but still hateful ... go to Israel messages implying not seeing Jews as "real" Americans. Similar trumpist not seeing non-whites and immigrants as "real" Americans from these same trumpists ... but Jews are getting it and getting it hard from BOTH sides.

 

The question of whether the emergence of BANNON to one of the most powerful political positions in U.S. government now is a danger to American Jews is a hot topic of concern among American Jews as well. There are many such hot topics like that now for American Jews. 

 

The argument has been made that a right wing white identity trumpist American can be both hawkish on Israel AND anti-semitic. I happen to agree with that and think Bannon is scary. 

 

So American Jews are FREAKING OUT and with really good reasons.

As an American Jew I thought this kind of horribleness was over for Jews, at least in the USA. But it's not over at all. The disease has broken out again.

 

Here is some irony for you. I don't think anyone is suggesting that president elect trump is about to start camps for Jews, but it's entirely possible that things are going to get even more unpleasant (than it is already) for American Jews.

How do they respond?

Yes, there is the Israel option.

But if American Jews feel they need to escape the USA because of antisemitism and being goaded by trumpist haters to go to Israel Jew the same way racists used to say Go back to Africa, n-word, to blacks, are they not CAVING too easily without a fight?

 

There are good reasons for Jews to migrate to Israel and there are also bad reasons. It depends how much worse things get for American Jews, but at this point I think caving to the Pepe the Frog Nazi style haters is not a good enough reason YET.

 

But Jews know from history a time can come when it is too late to flee and realistically, how do you know exactly when that is?

 

Here is where things get IRONIC.

Suppose, just suppose, that one or two MILLION American Jews do decide, enough is enough, living in trump's America is too horrible, and do go to Israel? These Jews, being AMERICAN Jews will overwhelmingly be much more politically liberal than most Israeli Jews. Imagine the impact on Israeli politics if that happened! 

 

For anyone that is sincerely interested in what is going on with American Jews now, including their strong differences with Israeli Jews, including the internal debate and stress about what all this means I suggest regularly reading this link:

http://forward.com/

There have been many many articles related to this topic in recent months and there will be more. While the forward is a major voice of progressive American Jews, they are very open to publishing opposing viewpoints from more conservative American Jews as well. 

 

To add even more about how weird and to many American Jews deeply distressing this is becoming -- 

 

-- most Israeli Jews are OK with trump because most Israeli Jews are not offended by his racist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim dog whistles 

 

-- most American Jews, being leftist, are very much NOT OK with trump, the racism, the anti-immigrant stuff, the association with "white" identity, etc. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[yardrunner]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You mean when Egypt violated a treaty and took over the Suez canal? They are to blame for that one.

But Egypt were only taking back their territory unlike Israel who are taking back other peoples properties

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

But Egypt were only taking back their territory unlike Israel who are taking back other peoples properties

Don't you guy's get it? This isn't yet another Israeli middle east conflict thread! It's specifically about the changed (for the much worse) situation of American Jews. Very different topic!

[yardrunner]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

How exactly do you differ from being an anti-semite?  

Those who know anything about European history know that Jews were denied the the right to own land or enter most professions. Because the Catholic and Orthodox church prohibited its adherents from charging interest on loans, banking was one of the few professions Jews were allowed to pursue. I suspect you know this, too, but purposely overlook it to advance your obvious anti-semitism.

Interestingly enough, in Bulgaria, when those evil Muslim Turks ruled it, Jews were allowed to own land and pursue pretty much any profession.  They pretty much blended into the background.

Like Catholics were treated in the UK after the time of James 2nd and a Catholic is still barred from being king or queen of the UK

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Don't you guy's get it? This isn't yet another Israeli middle east conflict thread! It's specifically about the changed (for the much worse) situation of American Jews. Very different topic!

One problem is, of course, that ardent supporters of Israel are very quick to accuse harsh critics of Israel for being anti-semitic. So, in effect, they also wrongly equate Israel with Judaism.  Or course, genuine anti-semites use this confounding of identities to their advantage.  I've got news for people like Jingthing. You can support BDS and the boycotting of Israel and not be an anti-semite.

[Honthy]

11 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

I'm not antisemitic but I can see a pattern thru history:

* In the Venetian state the Jews were hated and forced in to the first ghetto, they were running the pawn shops and got even more hated by the people in Venice.

* After WWI most of the German people was angry as they lost everything to the banks because of the hyperinflation, at that time 80-90% of the German banks were controlled by Jews. So who did the Germans blame?! The Jews and eventually that lead to the WWII holocaust!

* We have seen several mayor financial crisis during the last 10-20 year's with people losing everything because of banks like Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and even the Federal Reserve and all these banks was/are controlled by Jews.

And if you look thru history then you can see this pattern "People are in financial problems. - Jews are controlling the banks/cashflow. - Jews are being hated, harassed and killed." repeated over and over again!

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

You are not an anti-Semite? Those are all their talking points.

well, what is true, it is true, leaving alone who and why does he say. What Kasset Tak said are not farfetched but true.  His list could be extended easily. And I am not interested when someone judges me to antisemite or Semite. One can think whatever he wants until it is backed by truth.

[ilostmypassword]

47 minutes ago, Honthy said:

 

well, what is true, it is true, leaving alone who and why does he say. What Kasset Tak said are not farfetched but true.  His list could be extended easily. And I am not interested when someone judges me to antisemite or Semite. One can think whatever he wants until it is backed by truth.

ANd what reveals your dishonesty is that you don't address the fact that for most of their time in Europe Jews were not allowed to practice most professions or own land and be farmers. Moneylending was one of the very few avenues open to them.  

And Honthy's statement that hyperinflation led to people losing their homes to the banks is the exact opposite of the truth. Hyperinflation means that it's very easy to pay off your loan obligations. In fact, the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic destroyed lots of German banks including those run by Jews.  And if whatever analytic powers you may possess were not impaired by your bigotry, this would be obvious to you.

Edited November 18, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[Scott]

Continued off-topic posting will result in suspensions.  

 

You have been warned.  

[Honthy]

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

ANd what reveals your dishonesty is that you don't address the fact that for most of their time in Europe Jews were not allowed to practice most professions or own land and be farmers. Moneylending was one of the very few avenues open to them.  

And Honthy's statement that hyperinflation led to people losing their homes to the banks is the exact opposite of the truty. Hyperinflation means that it's very easy to pay off your loan obligations. In fact, the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic destroyed lots of German banks including those run by Jews.  And if whatever analytic powers you may possess were not impaired by your bigotry, this would be obvious to you.

 

 

It is simply NOT TRUE.  Otherwise, I know the European history in deep. No jew wanted to be a farmer in Europe, rather money lenders, pub owners and they ran smaller shops.  Only one thing was impossible to a jew to get higher address than Baron. Horrible, not ?

Just for your information, these depressed people could own factories, theaters, and even banks.

 

About hyperinflation  ... where did I write this?

 

When someone is bigot is the one, who tries to attack with non-existing fictions... in this case you.... 55555

But, do not worry, it is also typical......

 

Moreover, if you read the topic, it is about the American Jew minority, and not the European Jew farmers or my bigotry ;-))

Edited November 18, 2016 by Honthy

[Steely Dan]

Anti-Semitism has been on the rise worldwide and for several years now. I don't see the recent US election influencing this one way or another, to argue otherwise is in my opinion using the Jews as a tool to further partisan politics.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Honthy said:

It is simply NOT TRUE.  Otherwise, I know the European history in deep. No jew wanted to be a farmer in Europe, rather money lenders, pub owners and they ran smaller shops.  Only one thing was impossible to a jew to get higher address than Baron. Horrible, not ?

Just for your information, these depressed people could own factories, theaters, and even banks.

 

About hyperinflation  ... where did I write this?

 

When someone is bigot is the one, who tries to attack with non-existing fictions... in this case you.... 55555

But, do not worry, it is also typical......

 

Moreover, if you read the topic, it is about the American Jew minority, and not the European Jew farmers or my bigotry ;-))

You're right. it was Kasset Tak who said this. And here's what you wrote:  "What Kasset Tak said are not farfetched but true." 

As for Jews being factory owners and such. Yes, in Northern Europe in the 19th century , things changed. But for most of European history that is simply untrue.

I believe that country you are referring to is Germany:

"In July 1869, Prussian King Wilhelm I promulgated the North German Confederation Constitution, which gave Jews civil and political rights in twenty-two German states.  This Constitution was adopted by the new German empire upon its establishment on April 14, 1871.  On April 22, 1871, the Jews in all of Germany were finally given emancipation when the Constitution was extended to Bavaria."

https://israeled.org/unification-german-empire-leads-jewish-emancipation/

[Grubster]

Two wrongs do not make a right

[gemini81]

He told AIPAC and the Jewish lobby 'he stands behind them.' What are they complaining about then? What's more, he hasn't taken office yet. This 2% of the US population are more than powerful, and more than well represented.

Edited November 18, 2016 by gemini81
add

[Trouble]

12 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

How can a US Jew be expected to take responsibility for the actions of a foreign government? I have no love for the actions of the Israeli government, but that doesn't mean that Jews worldwide should bear the brunt of public consternation. Should all Catholics be held accountable for the child abuse perpetrated by their Church's priests?

You are entirely correct in that Jews worldwide should not bear the brunt for the policies of the Israeli Government.  The problem lies in the fact that one cannot even converse with most American Jews on the subject of Israel or how it deals with settlements on Palestinian land. It is a topic I do not broach with my Jewish friends as they so blindly support the government of Israel no matter how harsh they might treat Palestinians or how unfairly they have acquired the lands. By disagreeing you automatically become anti-semitic. Most American Jews regard Israel as a homeland as it was 2000 years ago.  However, they largely ignore the fact that it had largely been abandon over the centuries due to various wars with the Romans, Persians, Ottomans, etc. with less than 5,000 Jews left in the 1500's.  So its history is not much different than any other area or population group over the centuries of warfare, displaced populations, etc. Although they try to trace the Zionist movement to the 1500's, it was mostly a failure.  It really wasn't until the aftermath of WWI and the time leading to WWII and it's aftermath that there was a mass movement of Jews to Palestine.  And of course in the years after 1946 the Jewish population in the area grew and with the making of Israel a state the Palestinian population fled in tremendous numbers displacing 1,000,000 Palestinians. The problem in my view is that American Jews, rather than accepting the fact that Israel was a created state and part of deal making during WWII, much of the current American Jewish feeling is that they had a right to the area because of old testament history in an area largely abandon for one reason or another over the centuries.  I don't question the fact that Israel has been a nation state for over half a century, it is not going anywhere, but in a population of people which never let's one forget the holocaust, it is also hypocracy  how the  Israeli government has dealt with settlements and how it deals with the current situation in Palestine.

 

In my view, the American Jews believe that everyone that disagrees with their view becomes anti-semitic. That is their weapon for dealing with disagreement. If a person disagrees with how American Jews so blatantly raise money for causes in Israel and largely accept the Israeli governments handling of the Palestinian issue, or more importantly lobby the American government in Israel's behalf, they become anti-semitic. Obviously there are many American Jews and Israelis who disagree with Israel's policies but they seem to be ignored by the seemingly blind majority who support Israel policy, right or wrong. Further groups like the Anti Defamation League and other Jewish groups seem to always been in the forefront of trying to influence American policy in one way or another from the Jewish perspective placing themselves at odds with the non-Jewish who disagree and are labeled as anti-semitic.  My feeling is that many mainstream conservative Americans find themselves increasing confronted by groups like "Black lives matter", Hispanic immigrants groups, Black congressional caucus, hispanic congressional caucus, Anti Defamation League, Jewish American Congress, and you name it special interest groups, that they have become fed up with it all. Many are tired of the multi-cultural rhetoric where in everyone thinks their groups is special. However if you in any way slightly want to promote historical American values and tradition as a white person, you are labeled a racist, xenophobe, anti-semitic, etc. It is causing the alt-right and the backlash. It's time people started thinking about one America where everyone works for common culture and values whatever that might be. Seems to me that any group of people that identifies itself as something separate from the majority finds itself facing a backlash. Unfortunately with Jews there seems to be very little desire to understand an opposing view and if you are not with them you are labeled anti-semitic. The term has become to be used as a weapon and It is really an unfortunate term that inaccurately describes those with opposing views. 

 

Oddly enough, the Israeli Jews have found support in the Evangelical Christian far right due to the idea that the return of Jews to Israel in the 20th century is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Further that Israel will play a pivotal role in the second coming.  

Certainly the world is made up of strange bedfellows. 

[Credo]

That's interesting because the majority of the American Jews that I know, do not support the Israeli government policies, especially on settlements.   They support the right of Israel to exist, though.

 

The rise of Trump and his hateful speech has emboldened many people who have a racist side to them.   This particular side of people does not need to be encouraged.   

[Jblood]

About the US Jews. Trump's daughter and his first Child and his favourite Child Ivanka is Jewish. She converted either before or after she married some rich Jew in New York. In a way I see him as pro-Jewish and at least definitely pro-Israel, his connections with the Jewish networks in New York are probably pretty deep and go back many years.

 

We need to know who drew the Swastika - it's more like it was some liberal trying to taunt the Trump supporters, for the most part this "fascist" image of Trump is a complete lie created by the media which totally contradicts all the facts about him. I don't know why the MSM would try to deliberately misinform or confuse the public in this way. If there is some kind of a reaction and an increase in hate crime out there - it's not Trump who is creating it. It's the anti-Trump media which is creating all of that mess in the first place by continually misinforming the public about true Trump's intentions or who he is.

[Damrongsak]

14 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

... Wonder what the Clinton attitude to Jewish people really is?

 

 

 I would imagine that they don't like anyone who doesn't have a smell or flavor or anything like themselves.  Of course, Hillary is said to be stinky, so perhaps that is a good thing.

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

 I would imagine that they don't like anyone who doesn't have a smell or flavor or anything like themselves.  Of course, Hillary is said to be stinky, so perhaps that is a good thing.

Who is they? 

[Jingthing]

46 minutes ago, Jblood said:

About the US Jews. Trump's daughter and his first Child and his favourite Child Ivanka is Jewish. She converted either before or after she married some rich Jew in New York. In a way I see him as pro-Jewish and at least definitely pro-Israel, his connections with the Jewish networks in New York are probably pretty deep and go back many years.

 

We need to know who drew the Swastika - it's more like it was some liberal trying to taunt the Trump supporters, for the most part this "fascist" image of Trump is a complete lie created by the media which totally contradicts all the facts about him. I don't know why the MSM would try to deliberately misinform or confuse the public in this way. If there is some kind of a reaction and an increase in hate crime out there - it's not Trump who is creating it. It's the anti-Trump media which is creating all of that mess in the first place by continually misinforming the public about true Trump's intentions or who he is.

The question isn't about whether trump is personally anti-semitic or not. It's about what his dog whistle ridden campaign and his alliance to the white supremacist alt-right movement has encouraged.

Anyone that denies there has been a MASSIVE increase in Jew hating expression in the U.S. isn't paying attention, especially on social media.

It is a verifiable fact that pretty much all Jewish journalists that have written anything even mildly critical about trump have been HATE BOMBED with anti-semitic attacks largely RIGHT WING, alt-right flavored ones. As I said before, a combination of images of Jews burning in ovens Nazi kinds of stuff and also Go Back To Israel, Jewish Slur Words kind of stuff, similar to the way racists might say to African Americans (Go back to Africa, N word, etc.).

The irony here (there are so many and the American Jewish political experience is so layered with complexity now) is that these right wing alt-right Nazi type insults that Jews aren't "real" Americans ("real" being "white" and not immigrant) and should go back to Israel contrast with LEFT WING criticism of Israel, which tends to paint Israel as a "white" colonialist enterprise and fails to see the reality that the Jewish people are actually indigenous to Israel. Of course the only indigenous Americans are native Americans (Indians).

So you see, American Jews are getting it from both sides.

But you can post outrageous lies that this really isn't happening, and maybe some people will believe you, maybe in post facts trumpist America that works with many ... but in REAL fact land, the spike in antisemitism in the USA related to the trumpist movement is real.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, Credo said:

That's interesting because the majority of the American Jews that I know, do not support the Israeli government policies, especially on settlements.   They support the right of Israel to exist, though.

 

The rise of Trump and his hateful speech has emboldened many people who have a racist side to them.   This particular side of people does not need to be encouraged.   

American Jewish opinion on Israel policy is diverse of course, but as a generality is more liberal / left wing than Israeli opinion.

 

Of course, there are many individual American Jews that would not fit the generality at all, from extremist hard core right wing to extremist hard core left wing / radical anti-Zionist, etc. 

 

To roughly generalize (always dangerous), a significant majority of American Jews (in my opinion but you could look up polls if you have the energy) --

 

Support the right of Israel to exist

Support the right of Israel to defend itself

Support a two state solution

Oppose increased west bank expansion (as it hurts any chance of two state solution negotiations)

Oppose BDS so feel less welcome now among non-Jewish American leftists that have embraced that

Are often critical of Israeli policies and war time actions on a case by case basis when they are perceived as unjustifiably heavy handed

 

But really, if you read the OP, the core of the NEWS here is Jew hatred increase now coming from the RIGHT WING in the wake of trumpism. 

 

I realize Jew haters of the left, right, and middle may not like this, but the core reason Zionism found resonance in the first place many decades before the holocaust was the idea that Jews living as a minority in the diaspora (outside Israel) have just been kicked around too much in history, from all kinds of restrictions, to mass expulsions, to genocides. So the proposed solution for that ancient problem was to develop the power of a nation state. For many Jews in places where it's harder to be a Jew again, such as a France and Sweden, it may look like that theory was spot on and it's a wonderful thing that Israel is there. I sure hope American Jews don't ever feel the need to flee the USA to Israel for such negative reasons. It's much better when the choice is made by some for POSITIVE reasons. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Here's some more.

trump's pick of Bannon for key advisor has alarmed many people, Jewish and otherwise.

As this is a topic about the spike in trumpist / alt-right related antisemitism, the question is being asked if it's possible to be be right wing hawkish on Israel and also antisemitic. 

 

Considered here:

Quote

 

Some on the alt-right, the emerging group of racist activists who support Trump, oppose the close U.S.-Israel relationship as part of a broader critique of U.S. interventionism abroad. Yet they admire Israel as a “model for white nationalism and/or Christianism,” according to the right-wing online encyclopedia Conservapedia. Some also see Jewish immigration to Israel as helping their cause of a Jew-free white America.

The coexistence of anti-Semitism and right-Wing Zionism “in Trump’s world make sense,” said Todd Gitlin, the Columbia University sociologist and cultural commentator in an email to the Forward.

“Anti-Semitism and right-wing Zionism are varieties of ultra nationalism, or, to put it more pejoratively (as it deserves to be put) tribalism. They both presume that the embattled righteous ones need to bristle at, wall off, and punish the damned outsiders. They hate and fear cosmopolitan mixtures. They make a fetish of purity. They have the same soul. They rhyme.”

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[jaidam]

If there is any real anti-semitism i the US, it will be due to the ability of modern media platforms such as Youtube's ability to air the thoughts and wishes of respected modern Jewish foundations such as Barbara Spectre's vehicle Paideia. People do tend to react unfavorably when they come face to face with teachings such as hers that run contrary to the concepts of equality and the very existance of nation states. 

 Roll back the disturbing rhetoric, and watch the supposed anti-semitic feelings cease, a simple enough notion.

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, Trouble said:

You are entirely correct in that Jews worldwide should not bear the brunt for the policies of the Israeli Government.  The problem lies in the fact that one cannot even converse with most American Jews on the subject of Israel or how it deals with settlements on Palestinian land. It is a topic I do not broach with my Jewish friends as they so blindly support the government of Israel no matter how harsh they might treat Palestinians or how unfairly they have acquired the lands. By disagreeing you automatically become anti-semitic. Most American Jews regard Israel as a homeland as it was 2000 years ago.  However, they largely ignore the fact that it had largely been abandon over the centuries due to various wars with the Romans, Persians, Ottomans, etc. with less than 5,000 Jews left in the 1500's.  So its history is not much different than any other area or population group over the centuries of warfare, displaced populations, etc. Although they try to trace the Zionist movement to the 1500's, it was mostly a failure.  It really wasn't until the aftermath of WWI and the time leading to WWII and it's aftermath that there was a mass movement of Jews to Palestine.  And of course in the years after 1946 the Jewish population in the area grew and with the making of Israel a state the Palestinian population fled in tremendous numbers displacing 1,000,000 Palestinians. The problem in my view is that American Jews, rather than accepting the fact that Israel was a created state and part of deal making during WWII, much of the current American Jewish feeling is that they had a right to the area because of old testament history in an area largely abandon for one reason or another over the centuries.  I don't question the fact that Israel has been a nation state for over half a century, it is not going anywhere, but in a population of people which never let's one forget the holocaust, it is also hypocracy  how the  Israeli government has dealt with settlements and how it deals with the current situation in Palestine.

 

In my view, the American Jews believe that everyone that disagrees with their view becomes anti-semitic. That is their weapon for dealing with disagreement. If a person disagrees with how American Jews so blatantly raise money for causes in Israel and largely accept the Israeli governments handling of the Palestinian issue, or more importantly lobby the American government in Israel's behalf, they become anti-semitic. Obviously there are many American Jews and Israelis who disagree with Israel's policies but they seem to be ignored by the seemingly blind majority who support Israel policy, right or wrong. Further groups like the Anti Defamation League and other Jewish groups seem to always been in the forefront of trying to influence American policy in one way or another from the Jewish perspective placing themselves at odds with the non-Jewish who disagree and are labeled as anti-semitic.  My feeling is that many mainstream conservative Americans find themselves increasing confronted by groups like "Black lives matter", Hispanic immigrants groups, Black congressional caucus, hispanic congressional caucus, Anti Defamation League, Jewish American Congress, and you name it special interest groups, that they have become fed up with it all. Many are tired of the multi-cultural rhetoric where in everyone thinks their groups is special. However if you in any way slightly want to promote historical American values and tradition as a white person, you are labeled a racist, xenophobe, anti-semitic, etc. It is causing the alt-right and the backlash. It's time people started thinking about one America where everyone works for common culture and values whatever that might be. Seems to me that any group of people that identifies itself as something separate from the majority finds itself facing a backlash. Unfortunately with Jews there seems to be very little desire to understand an opposing view and if you are not with them you are labeled anti-semitic. The term has become to be used as a weapon and It is really an unfortunate term that inaccurately describes those with opposing views. 

 

Oddly enough, the Israeli Jews have found support in the Evangelical Christian far right due to the idea that the return of Jews to Israel in the 20th century is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. Further that Israel will play a pivotal role in the second coming.  

Certainly the world is made up of strange bedfellows. 

You make only a brief nod to them, but in fact, evangelical christians are far more blindly supportive of Israel than are American Jews. And last time I checked, they voted overwhelmingly for Trump. For that matter, Trump has been far more blindly supportive of Israel than was Clinton or Sanders.

[Jingthing]

42 minutes ago, jaidam said:

If there is any real anti-semitism i the US, it will be due to the ability of modern media platforms such as Youtube's ability to air the thoughts and wishes of respected modern Jewish foundations such as Barbara Spectre's vehicle Paideia. People do tend to react unfavorably when they come face to face with teachings such as hers that run contrary to the concepts of equality and the very existance of nation states. 

 Roll back the disturbing rhetoric, and watch the supposed anti-semitic feelings cease, a simple enough notion.

Sure thing, mate.

Jews deserve antisemitism. 

That kind of crap excuse is as old as antisemitism.

 

This thread is not about Paeideia (from SWEDEN) which I had to google.

I bet most American Jews haven't even heard of it.

When I googled it, I realized I saw a t.v. news segment on it once. 

Not sure but it sounds progressive pro-minority in the European context in a similar way that liberal American Jews are supportive to lots of DIVERSITY in the USA. 

That does relate to the trumpist / alt-right in their white American nativism which of course Jews (and Muslims / Asians / Blacks / Latinos, etc.) would be considered as others.

 

http://www.paideia-eu.org/about/

 

If there is any real antisemitism in the U.S.? Come on, now. Get real. There is antisemitism everywhere in the world including nations that have no Jews. The issue here is about how it has SPIKED in direct relation to the trumpist movement. 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The question isn't about whether trump is personally anti-semitic or not. It's about what his dog whistle ridden campaign and his alliance to the white supremacist alt-right movement has encouraged.

Anyone that denies there has been a MASSIVE increase in Jew hating expression in the U.S. isn't paying attention, especially on social media.

It is a verifiable fact that pretty much all Jewish journalists that have written anything even mildly critical about trump have been HATE BOMBED with anti-semitic attacks largely RIGHT WING, alt-right flavored ones. As I said before, a combination of images of Jews burning in ovens Nazi kinds of stuff and also Go Back To Israel, Jewish Slur Words kind of stuff, similar to the way racists might say to African Americans (Go back to Africa, N word, etc.).

The irony here (there are so many and the American Jewish political experience is so layered with complexity now) is that these right wing alt-right Nazi type insults that Jews aren't "real" Americans ("real" being "white" and not immigrant) and should go back to Israel contrast with LEFT WING criticism of Israel, which tends to paint Israel as a "white" colonialist enterprise and fails to see the reality that the Jewish people are actually indigenous to Israel. Of course the only indigenous Americans are native Americans (Indians).

So you see, American Jews are getting it from both sides.

But you can post outrageous lies that this really isn't happening, and maybe some people will believe you, maybe in post facts trumpist America that works with many ... but in REAL fact land, the spike in antisemitism in the USA related to the trumpist movement is real.

 

What is a "dog whistle ridden campaign"?