For Trump and GOP, 'Obamacare' repeal is complex and risky

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

No I don't. Not at all. In fact I approve of a classic Keynesian approach to managing the economy. I think the government and the FED have drifted far from that however, and I think Keynes would be aghast at what has been done in his name. But it'll work till it stops working.

What exactly have they done in Keynes name that you think he would aghast at?

[Jingthing]

Repeal and CHAOS?!?

Quote

New push to replace Obamacare reignites old GOP tensions

“Delayed replacement is a situation where it is basically repeal and chaos in terms of what will ensue, because of the uncertainty that will get presented to insurers, providers, consumers and states,” Burwell told reporters after the meeting.

Republicans want to end Obamacare’s system of penalties and subsidies. But many — including Trump — want to continue to ban insurers from denying coverage or sharply increasing rates for the sick.

Experts warn that “repeal and delay” under those conditions would prompt insurers to flee the individual market.
...

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-push-to-replace-obamacare-reignites-old-gop-tensions/2016/12/11/b460b5cc-be3a-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_obamacare-720pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f65a14544358

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[mike324]

I think you will never be able to have affordable healthcare, it just doesn't exist in the world if you don't pay heavy taxes. Either middle class either has to pay more to help the poor, or everyone needs to pay 30-40% taxes to avoid bickering about who is helping who. Nobody in the world wants either.

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, mike324 said:

I think you will never be able to have affordable healthcare, it just doesn't exist in the world if you don't pay heavy taxes. Either middle class either has to pay more to help the poor, or everyone needs to pay 30-40% taxes to avoid bickering about who is helping who. Nobody in the world wants either.

 

 

 

How then, do other countries manage to do it?

[mike324]

23 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

How then, do other countries manage to do it?

 

Like which countries are talking about? If its developed European countries like Sweden, Denmark, etc....look at how much taxes citizens pay, the lowest tax bracket is like 30%. Many pay upwards of 50%.

 

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, mike324 said:

 

Like which countries are talking about? If its developed European countries like Sweden, Denmark, etc....look at how much taxes citizens pay, the lowest tax bracket is like 30%. Many pay upwards of 50%.

 

Yet health care in these countries costs less as a percentage of GDP than it does in the United States. But, to be fair, on the other hand, their health care service is better.

[Langsuan Man]

6 years and the Republicans have failed in every attempt to "end Obamacare" and now they a talking about repeal and replace,  repeal now so they can say that they did something and replace with something great ; yet they still haven't come up with a verifiable replacement or even a decent proposal in all this time

 

Smoke and mirrors is all I can see 

[Jingthing]

Interesting article about how many people that voted for trump are the same people that have been greatly helped by Obamacare. Apparently, most of them didn't really believe the REPEAL it part of trump promise and some, bizarrely, even thought trump would push for things only the democrats would have pushed for ... such as Obamacare Medicaid expansion.

 

Not sure what can be done about people voting against their own interests, especially on such life and death issues.

 

As trump would tweet -- SAD!

 

Quote

 

Why Obamacare enrollees voted for Trump

In Whitley County, Kentucky, the uninsured rate declined 60 percent under Obamacare. So why did 82 percent of voters there support Donald Trump?

 

 

http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/12/13/13848794/kentucky-obamacare-trump

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Interesting article about how many people that voted for trump are the same people that have been greatly helped by Obamacare. Apparently, most of them didn't really believe the REPEAL it part of trump promise and some, bizarrely, even thought trump would push for things only the democrats would have pushed for ... such as Obamacare Medicaid expansion.

 

Not sure what can be done about people voting against their own interests, especially on such life and death issues.

 

As trump would tweet -- SAD!

 

 

http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/12/13/13848794/kentucky-obamacare-trump

 

 

The reporters went to a county in Kentucky where the uninsured rate dropped from 25% to 10% yet 82% of the voters went for Trump. Mostly, they really didn't believe he would pull the plug on something that had changed their lives so much for the better.

What's also interesinting about Kentucky is that the candidate who eventually became governor campaigned against Obamacare but somehow as soon as he got into office, lost his stomach for canceling the Medicaid portion of it. He did abolish the Kentucky exchange which was probably the best run exchange in the country but he had to piss on something to maintain his credentials.

[Jingthing]

OMG, what a mess!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/12/15/the-gop-strategy-to-repeal-and-replace-obamacare-is-a-joke/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.dc60cbae5f1e

Quote

At this point, the Republican argument would devolve into absurdity. Are Republicans really going to blast Democrats for refusing to cooperate in covering people, after they have already voted to repeal coverage for all of Obamacare’s beneficiaries, and even as they are insisting on a replacement that covers far fewer people than the Democrats want to cover? No question, Republicans are highly skilled at covering up their policy gibberish with all manner of obfuscation, but good luck messaging that one.

 

This article indicates that it's a strong probability a repeal will happen quickly including all the states that currently having expanded Medicaid cut off from that. 

[MajarTheLion]

Nothing risky about it. Obamacare is a disaster that only benefited the moochers and dregs of society. Those of us who actually pay the bills, the middle class, are paying the price. ObamaScam has NEVER had majority support of the American people. Every major promise made has proven to be false.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, MajarTheLion said:

Nothing risky about it. Obamacare is a disaster that only benefited the moochers and dregs of society. Those of us who actually pay the bills, the middle class, are paying the price. ObamaScam has NEVER had majority support of the American people. Every major promise made has proven to be false.

 

Obamacare is a disaster, that's true. But what Obama originally promised and the reneged on, despite his control of Congress was Universal Health Care which is supported by a majority of Americans. Hopefully Trump is running a game on the Republicans here but it doesn't seem likely. If he abolishes, the admittedly awful, Obamacare without coming up with something better, he's going to lose the midterms. He probably doesn't care.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx

[ilostmypassword]

On 12/16/2016 at 0:50 AM, lannarebirth said:

 

Obamacare is a disaster, that's true. But what Obama originally promised and the reneged on, despite his control of Congress was Universal Health Care which is supported by a majority of Americans. Hopefully Trump is running a game on the Republicans here but it doesn't seem likely. If he abolishes, the admittedly awful, Obamacare without coming up with something better, he's going to lose the midterms. He probably doesn't care.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx

If Obamacare is so awful, why do a big majority of the people who  actually use it, support it?  And the problems could easily have been remedied if the Republicans had decided to improve it, instead of voting to repeal it. And Obama's promise of Universal Health Care hinged on the Medicaid provision being mandatory. Once states chose to opt out - mainly out of a desire to punish the poor - that was the end of any hope for universal health care under the present system.

[Jingthing]

This article hints at a likely core of the upcoming conflict about repealing Obamacare.

 

Kind of a game of chicken.

 

Will the republicans actually be bold and totally kill Obamacare hoping that they can get some democrats to play along with them with their B.S. replace plan?

 

I don't know. 

Quote

 

The Republicans’ Obamacare Fantasy

The GOP expects Democrats to help it fix what it’s about to break.

 

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/don_t_expect_a_bipartisan_effort_to_replace_obamacare.html

[Ulysses G.]

On 12/16/2016 at 9:05 PM, ilostmypassword said:

If Obamacare is so awful, why do a big majority of the people who  actually use it, support it?

 

Many of them have no choice. They have to pay a fine if they don't. It is becoming pretty obvious that it is great for people with no income at all, but it screws the middle class who actually work for a living.

 

Open enrollment for 2017 under President Obama’s health care law began yesterday, but insurance premiums are expected to skyrocket in many parts of the country. Voters overwhelmingly favor changes in Obamacare, with more voters than ever calling for its outright repeal.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Many of them have no choice. They have to pay a fine if they don't. It is becoming pretty obvious that it is great for people with no income at all, but it screws the middle class who actually work for a living.

 

Open enrollment for 2017 under President Obama’s health care law began yesterday, but insurance premiums are expected to skyrocket in many parts of the country. Voters overwhelmingly favor changes in Obamacare, with more voters than ever calling for its outright repeal.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

 

 

You'll notice that the right wing Rasmussen summary didn't say that a majority supported its repeal.  In fact, the majority support improving it, not rescinding it.

Rasmussen also didn't do a survey of the people who actually use obamacare.  Those polls consistently show strong support for Obamacare.

The problem is, lots of people, like you, don't actually understand why Obamacare is structured the way it is. 

And if it's so bad, why haven't Republicans been able to come up with a decent replacement plan? They've had 6 years.

 

[Ulysses G.]

Is Gallup "right wing" too?

 

More Americans Negative Than Positive About ACA

http://www.gallup.com/poll/195383/americans-negative-positive-aca.aspx

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Is Gallup "right wing" too?

 

More Americans Negative Than Positive About ACA

http://www.gallup.com/poll/195383/americans-negative-positive-aca.aspx

except this is not a poll of people who actually are on Obamacare.

"Most Marketplace and Medicaid Enrollees Continue to Be Satisfied with Their Coverage

In each of the three years since the ACA’s major coverage expansions, majorities of marketplace and new Medicaid enrollees have reported that they are satisfied with their new health insurance overall. In 2016, 77 percent of adults with marketplace plans and 88 percent of those newly enrolled in Medicaid were very or somewhat satisfied with their health insurance (Exhibit 6). And when asked to rate their insurance, 66 percent of marketplace enrollees and 77 percent of new Medicaid enrollees said their coverage was good, very good, or excellent (Exhibit 7)."

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2016/may/aca-tracking-survey-access-to-care-and-satisfaction

 

[Ulysses G.]

Does that tell you how many of those people get Obamacare for free? I am aware that no income people love it. It is the working middle class that pay for it that are not so thrilled. 

 

More Americans Negative Than Positive About ACA

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

Does that tell you how many of those people get Obamacare for free? I am aware that no income people love it. It is the working middle class that pay for it that are not so thrilled. 

 

More Americans Negative Than Positive About ACA

 

 

 

If you knew anything about Obamacare, you would know that people who get it on the marketplace are paying for it.

[Jingthing]

Regret is coming. The sad tale of people that voted for trump that didn't really understand what they were voting for. 

 

Quote

 

Trump voters didn’t take him literally on Obamacare. Oops?

Donald Trump’s supporters, in conservative writer Salena Zito’s memorable formulation, take him seriously but not literally.

They will be forgiving if, say, he doesn’t literally get Mexico to pay for a border wall, or if he doesn’t literally ban all Muslims from entering the United States.

But in other areas, Trump’s supporters perhaps should have taken him literally — because they now may have a serious problem.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-voters-didnt-take-him-literally-on-obamacare-oops/2016/12/20/46ef3cae-c6f3-11e6-bf4b-2c064d32a4bf_story.html

[ilostmypassword]

On 12/19/2016 at 7:49 AM, Ulysses G. said:

Does that tell you how many of those people get Obamacare for free? I am aware that no income people love it. It is the working middle class that pay for it that are not so thrilled. 

 

More Americans Negative Than Positive About ACA

 

 

 

That link is about people getting it on the marketplace. Yes, lots of them get subsidies.  And you know who gets the subsidies to help them pay for Obamacare? Working class, lower middle class and middle class people.  Working people. Working people. Working people.  Can you grasp that simple fact? Or are youjust playing at being massively ignorant?

[Jingthing]

Some information about the GOOD that Obamacare has done for people.

Yet, a lot of those people that benefited from this rather IGNORANTLY have voted a man into office that really does plan to TRASH Obamacare.

Sad!

I think it's hopeless now. The republicans, the party against decent health care access for all, has been dedicated to TRASHING Obamacare since it started, and now they've got a president ready to do it. 

It's really bizarre how backwards the USA in health care access issues compared to advanced nations, and even many not so advanced nations. Obamacare was a step forwards. Now WAY BACKWARDS again. Shameful really. 

 

Quote

 

Under Obamacare, fewer people skipped doctors’ visits because of cost

In a conference call, David Blumenthal, president of the Commonwealth Fund, was asked about why Kentucky — which saw the biggest decline in the uninsurance rate — went for president-elect Trump, when many voters presumably benefited from expanded access to health care. Kentucky's non-elderly uninsured rate dropped from 21 percent in 2013 to 8 percent in 2015.

“I think this is a really perplexing point,” Blumenthal said. “There clearly is a disconnect between people benefiting from this particular program and their political perception about which candidates they want to support.”

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/21/under-obamacare-fewer-people-skipped-doctors-visits-due-to-cost/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_wonkblog-aca-1145pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.1d3138a6ce2a

Edited December 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

AWKWARD for trump/republicans ...

Now that the team is in play to really kill Obamacare, it suddenly gets more popular!

 

Quote

 

Obamacare 2017 enrollment hits record, despite Trump's threat to repeal

A total of nearly 30 million people would become uninsured if lawmakers repeal but don't replace Obamacare, according to Urban Institute. The repeal would do away with not only the individual exchanges, but also other provisions such as Medicaid expansion and letting children stay on their parents' health plan until age 26.

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/21/news/economy/obamacare-enrollment-record/index.html

[Jingthing]

Here it comes.

Merry Christmas!  

 

Quote

 

Trump could quickly doom ACA cost-sharing subsidies for millions of Americans

The subsidies could be eliminated as soon as President-elect Donald Trump takes office, a consequence of an unusual lawsuit that House Republicans brought against the Obama administration two years ago.

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-could-quickly-doom-aca-cost-sharing-subsidies-for-millions-of-americans/2016/12/21/05349066-c2fc-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7_story.html

[ilostmypassword]

On 12/19/2016 at 4:45 AM, Ulysses G. said:

 

Many of them have no choice. They have to pay a fine if they don't. It is becoming pretty obvious that it is great for people with no income at all, but it screws the middle class who actually work for a living.

 

Open enrollment for 2017 under President Obama’s health care law began yesterday, but insurance premiums are expected to skyrocket in many parts of the country. Voters overwhelmingly favor changes in Obamacare, with more voters than ever calling for its outright repeal.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

 

 

Well, since you believe that middle class people aren't getting subsidies, then this information should cheer you up. Trump can pull the plug.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-could-quickly-doom-aca-cost-sharing-subsidies-for-millions-of-americans/2016/12/21/05349066-c2fc-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_costsharing-10pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Of course, a disproportionate number of those benefiting from the subsidies are people who voted for Trump who somehow believed that he would never pull the plug on them. Do you think they're in for a rude awakening? I guess you hope so.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, I am for universal healthcare and Trump has said he is too. I do not know if he can pull it off, but I am all for it.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

Actually, I am for universal healthcare and Trump has said he is too. I do not know if he can pull it off, but I am all for it.

But you are also for abolishing Obamacare.  And you speak of it as a failure even though enrollment continues to grow.

 And Trump has said so many contradictory things. But the fact is he has named Tom Price, a free market medical fanatic, to be head of HUD. And that action speaks louder than any words Trump has uttered.

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

But you are also for abolishing Obamacare.  And you speak of it as a failure even though enrollment continues to grow.

 

 

It was promoted with blatant lies to the American people and it is collapsing just like the Republcan said it would. I am hardly the only one to say so.

 

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obamacare-is-failing-exactly-the-way-critics-said-it-would/

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

It was promoted with blatant lies to the American people and it is collapsing just like the Republcan said it would. I am hardly the only one to say so.

 

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obamacare-is-failing-exactly-the-way-critics-said-it-would/

If it is collapsing why is enrolment growing? You don't see a contradiction there?

And imagine how it would be doing if Republicans had wanted to address its problems, rather than abolish it.

And I noticed you haven't continued to promote the notion that Trump favors universal healthcare.