Passenger van operators want to return to Bangkok's Victory Monument

[dieseldave1951]

3 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

They had to pay rental space at VM also

 

The real reason is nobody is using the minibus service since they moved to the new locations as I found out myself a couple of weeks ago, 

 

The minibus companies are totally correct in what they are saying, it needs to be moved back to VM for the convenience of the passengers and to ensure the drivers can keep their jobs and also for domestic tourism as many Thais use the minibuses for their trips away

 

written by a mini bus owner no doubt!!!! i travelled to southern bus terminal as part of my onward journey and found it no hassle what so ever, get used to it it's staying ,

i hardly think the PM will reverse his decision on the back of a few disgruntled passengers and van drivers/owners

Edited November 25, 2016 by dieseldave1951

[zaZa9]

Well of course they want to go back.

Beach chair vendors want to go back onto the beach at Patong.

Business people want to go back to Surin and reopen their restaurants and bars.

Resort owners want to return and rebuild their resorts inside  Phu Kao National Park and Koh Samet National Park....

 

And they petition and compalin and belly-ache without any regard to the lot of other people in the vague hope they will get what THEY want.

 

I was passing through Victory Monument a lot last  week , and the traffic situation is way improved.

The government should carry on ignoring these Self-Interest groups and keep  trying  to drag the countries laws into the modern era..

 

[dieseldave1951]

10 minutes ago, dieseldave1951 said:

written by a mini bus owner no doubt!!!!,

i travelled to southern bus terminal as part of my onward journey and found it no hassle what so ever, apart from the mini van driver ( if there was a government service to cha-am i would definitely use instead of these drugged up sleepy, and or dangerous van drivers and their vans, 

i hardly think the PM will reverse his decision on the back of a few disgruntled passengers and van drivers/owners

 

[monkey4u]

3 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

They had to pay rental space at VM also

 

The real reason is nobody is using the minibus service since they moved to the new locations as I found out myself a couple of weeks ago, 

 

The minibus companies are totally correct in what they are saying, it needs to be moved back to VM for the convenience of the passengers and to ensure the drivers can keep their jobs and also for domestic tourism as many Thais use the minibuses for their trips away

 

If the passengers are no longer using these fine bus services

How are they traveling, magic carpets that fly ?

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, monkey4u said:

If the passengers are no longer using these fine bus services

How are they traveling, magic carpets that fly ?

 

No they are simply not travelling

 

I have lived in Hua Hin for the past 11 years, when in BKK I have used the minibus to get back here numerous times, probably in the low hundreds

 

Every time I have used it there has not been one occasion where the minibus has not been full and bear in mind that they leave every 30 minutes

 

I came back from BKK 3 weeks ago, there was 2 people on the minibus, myself and another person, the 360 baht in total that was paid in fares would not even cover the cost of the gas for the trip

 

Now even some of the low IQ people that have posted on this thread can see that there is something wrong when 2 people use a service that is normally full

 

No passengers = loss of jobs, no passengers = loss of domestic tourism

[bark]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Wow, several passengers? That many eh?

 

Boo hoo...the upside of your relocation massively outweigh any inconveniences  several people may experience. 

 

As previously suggested the ending of free rental may be the real cause of this "petition" to the pm. 

 

But who will get the rental Fee ?

 

[rott]

5 hours ago, Searat7 said:

Some of the vans at VM operated from organized parking lots off the street. That makes more sense than the vans that were actually parked on roads there.

Not used the van since the move, presumably those off road places are closed now?

[bubba]

33 minutes ago, rott said:

Not used the van since the move, presumably those off road places are closed now?

 

Yes, all of them are closed now. I pass through there every day on my commute, and I would hardly call them "organised" with some of the vans simply parking in the road as they collected or discharged passengers, leaving one lane for the rest of the two-way traffic. I have spent as long as 30 minutes just to get from Phaholyothin to Din Daeng road – a distance or maybe 1km. I have seen more than a few accidents as a minivan would dart out of the parking spaces and into the traffic, mostly motorbikes who were swerving around the other minivans stuck in the traffic. 

 

It is smooth sailing now.

[louse1953]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Probably.  

 

And if I'm going to take the trouble to go to one of the 3 relatively remote bus stations, I'm probably going to forgo the mini-van and hop on a professionally driven big bus instead of a kamikaze mini-van.  Their main advantage was mostly the convenience of a handy drop off point.

I don't care how far out of my way i have to go to catch a real bus,i will never get in a coffin on wheels, packed like sardines.

[monkey4u]

2 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

No they are simply not travelling

 

I have lived in Hua Hin for the past 11 years, when in BKK I have used the minibus to get back here numerous times, probably in the low hundreds

 

Every time I have used it there has not been one occasion where the minibus has not been full and bear in mind that they leave every 30 minutes

 

I came back from BKK 3 weeks ago, there was 2 people on the minibus, myself and another person, the 360 baht in total that was paid in fares would not even cover the cost of the gas for the trip

 

Now even some of the low IQ people that have posted on this thread can see that there is something wrong when 2 people use a service that is normally full

 

No passengers = loss of jobs, no passengers = loss of domestic tourism

Maybe the low tourist numbers may be the reason the Hua Hin buses are near empty

Or people are sick of  murder caused by domestic bus drivers

Who can say for sure

[bubba]

Just now, monkey4u said:

Maybe the low tourist numbers may be the reason the Hua Hin buses are near empty

Or people are sick of  murder caused by domestic bus drivers

Who can say for sure

 

 

Well if it is true that there are now only two passengers in each minivan rather than being packed full, then there is one thing for sure: there will be far fewer road fatalities this year due to death bucket minivans and their reckless drivers.

[monkey4u]

10 minutes ago, bubba said:

 

 

Well if it is true that there are now only two passengers in each minivan rather than being packed full, then there is one thing for sure: there will be far fewer road fatalities this year due to death bucket minivans and their reckless drivers.

I agree with that as far as passengers are concerned

Too bad about the other road users

[CLW]

Why they can't try to relocate a few vans according to the demand so that the van stations are evenly distributed all over Bangkok.
But as many other things, they seem to know just all or nothing...

[darrendsd]

51 minutes ago, monkey4u said:

Maybe the low tourist numbers may be the reason the Hua Hin buses are near empty

Or people are sick of  murder caused by domestic bus drivers

Who can say for sure

 

As I said I have travelled to Hua Hin on the minibuses in the low hundreds of times over the last 11 years

 

Without exception they have ALWAYS been full

 

If they are not full (2 people) then it is obvious that there is a problem and the obvious problem is the new station locations, none of which are near a BTS by the way

 

 

 

 

[darrendsd]

This article pretty much proves my point, this move has been a disaster for everyone apart from the motorists travelling around the VM area

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/transpo/2016/11/25/eviction-victory-monument-killing-van-business-trade-rep-says/

[bubba]

1 minute ago, darrendsd said:

This article pretty much proves my point, this move has been a disaster for everyone apart from the motorists travelling around the VM area

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/transpo/2016/11/25/eviction-victory-monument-killing-van-business-trade-rep-says/

 

But of course the only source quoted in the article who could be considered as saying that is "has been a disaster for everyone" (he didn't) is Boonsong Srisakul, who chairs a business association of van operator and provides his own unsourced data to support his point. 

 

You don't suppose he might have some sort of self-interested agenda for making such a statement, do you?

[robblok]

 
As I said I have travelled to Hua Hin on the minibuses in the low hundreds of times over the last 11 years
 
Without exception they have ALWAYS been full
 
If they are not full (2 people) then it is obvious that there is a problem and the obvious problem is the new station locations, none of which are near a BTS by the way
 
 
 
 

Maybe people have taken an other form of transportation. If i could choose a bus or minivan it would never be a minivan. Now that busses and minivans leave from the same location busses are used more.

Its a blessing for those traveling on bikes or car around that area. A real good plan. Like any plan there will always be people who like it and those who don't.

People using bikes or cars certainly love it. Those living in the area and not using the vans love it too.

For those who used the vans a lot and found the area convenient it is a bad plan.

[rott]

17 minutes ago, bubba said:

 

But of course the only source quoted in the article who could be considered as saying that is "has been a disaster for everyone" (he didn't) is Boonsong Srisakul, who chairs a business association of van operator and provides his own unsourced data to support his point. 

 

You don't suppose he might have some sort of self-interested agenda for making such a statement, do you?

You should both get together then. 

[darrendsd]

21 minutes ago, bubba said:

 

But of course the only source quoted in the article who could be considered as saying that is "has been a disaster for everyone" (he didn't) is Boonsong Srisakul, who chairs a business association of van operator and provides his own unsourced data to support his point. 

 

You don't suppose he might have some sort of self-interested agenda for making such a statement, do you?

 

If you're not intelligent enough to realize that this move has been a disaster then there really is no hope for you

 

If it takes people up to 1.5 hours extra to get to/from where they want to go/come back in BKK because they have to travel right across BKK to access the minibus stations do you really think they are going to be happy about it and it is a good idea?  Do you REALLY think that is a good idea? Really? And of course not just HH but all provinces/towns

 

Of course he and the other van operators are going to complain, if you had a business and it was moved  to a different location out of your control and then business dropped by up to 75% wouldn't you complain?

 

But as I said if you're not intelligent enough .......

[bubba]

5 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

If you're not intelligent enough to realize that this move has been a disaster then there really is no hope for you

 

If it takes people up to 1.5 hours extra to get to/from where they want to go/come back in BKK because they have to travel right across BKK to access the minibus stations do you really think they are going to be happy about it and it is a good idea?  Do you REALLY think that is a good idea? Really? And of course not just HH but all provinces/towns

 

Of course he and the other van operators are going to complain, if you had a business and it was moved  to a different location out of your control and then business dropped by up to 75% wouldn't you complain?

 

But as I said if you're not intelligent enough .......

 

Without descending into insults, I do realise that this is an inconvenience to many, but it was also a huge inconvenience to many with the anarchic system of minivans blocking traffic, stopping anywhere and everywhere to service passengers and the ensuing gridlock at the biggest roundabout in Bangkok that happened nearly every day as a result of 4000 minivans being stationed there. You mentioned the added 1.5 hours to get to the new minivan stations. It has taken me that long to drive between Saphan Kwai through to Din Daeng. And it no doubt took the minivans that long to get back out of it, depending on which direction they were headed. My daily commute as well as thousands of others who either drive or take a bus has been cut in half - every day. Personally,  and this is of course entirely selfish, I would say that I spend roughly 5 - 6 hours less on the road every week now. Multiply that times several thousand other doing the same commute or driving service vehicles.

 

There was no system there. Stands were set up haphazardly with cardboard signs. Many people were taking taxis in to meet the minivans, thus further adding to the traffic. I saw several accidents caused by minivans blocking the road or driving recklessly down the wrong side of the road under the expressway. Nobody wanted to go to any of the businesses in the area because of the traffic, so was a result, businesses up and down Phaholythin suffered as as well.

 

Can you imagine such a system in the centre of London, New York, or Sydney? Actually, I cannot even imagine the existence of such a dangerous and inefficient system of transport in those cities. I know of one person who actually asked to stop and get off halfway to Ayuthaya because the driver was so pumped up and driving so dangerously. 

 

So we can agree to disagree for our own reasons, but yes, I do agree with the new centralised system of minivan stations. 

[the donger]

10 hours ago, bubba said:

 

 

But consider that Victory Monument was severely congested due to the minivans. Sometimes the traffic was solidly jammed all the way to Saphan Kwai intersection and nothing was moving - cars, buses or minivans. The two lane road between Phaholyothin and Din Daeng Road was used by some minivans as their own personal collection points, thus blocking that. Then there were taxis stopping everywhere in stuck traffic to despatch passengers for the minivans, or collect them as they got out of of minivans. Yes, some of us do have to drive, whether by choice or necessity, just as in any city. Then there are other vehicles such as delivery vans and commercial vehicles that have no choice but to pass Victory Monument. There is a huge improvement in that area now.

 

Also,  was no organised place for passengers to board and many were dodging traffic to run to a minivan that was stopped and blocking traffic, thus putting those pedestrians in danger. 

 

And as Sphere said "What could be more convenient than blocking 2-3 lanes at the city's biggest roundabout?" 

This is not because of the vans. I go to victory monument every morning to catch a bus.

vans took a maximum of one lane out of the four on the roundabout. Most do not stay on the roundabout, they use the layby and side streets to wait. 

 

Let me ask you this: Now the vans are done, is there no longer congestion there? No, between saphan kwai and siam square is still a hell hole, because it's full of cars, taxis, buses, and you have parked cars blocking lanes.

 

You mentioned there being too many taxis. The people who connect by bus or bts into victory monument and then take a van, what form of transport do you think they'll be using to get to the van station? Yes, more taxis. 

 

A better solution would be enforcement of traffic laws on Phaholyothin, improve flow by connect soi roads, or cut the stupid tax relief on first time car buyers. 

[trogers]

9 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Probably.  

 

And if I'm going to take the trouble to go to one of the 3 relatively remote bus stations, I'm probably going to forgo the mini-van and hop on a professionally driven big bus instead of a kamikaze mini-van.  Their main advantage was mostly the convenience of a handy drop off point.

 

Yup. Very handy these vans, for a trip to the other side...

[bubba]

To answer your question, yes traffic in the area is much less congested, at least for my commute. Are you saying that 4000 minivans plus the additional taxis and cars that people took to the minivans did not encumber traffic?

 

The road under the expressway was hopeless because of the parked minivans and pedestrians dashing back and forth to leave or board them.

 

I am not familiar with the new minivan locations, but yes, I suppose people might take a taxi from, say, Morchit MRT/BTS to Morchit station. That's a lot different than thousands of minivans and added taxis at a large, congested roundabout. 

 

What additional traffic laws could have been enforced that would have made things better when there was a solid kilometre of gridlock on Phaholyothin? Just asking.

 

As for the first time car buyer rebate programme, yes, it was incredibly short-sighted of Yingluck to implement it, but thankfully that ended in December 2012. 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by bubba

[hotchilli]

Can anyone tell me, has the off-road minivan station next to Century building (below Victory Monument BTS) been relocated or is it still allowed to operate from that location?
I used to use this service to & from Nakhon Pathom & need to know if it's still running.

[darrendsd]

As I said the only people that have benefited is the motorists, I don't disagree with you that traffic could be bad there

 

However this is going to cost jobs in the short and longterm, minibus drivers will lose their jobs and as domestic tourism has/will suffer jobs in other sectors will go to

 

To me this is a very badly thought out plan, let's see if it changes back, I doubt it but let's see

[BLACKJACK2]

7 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Can anyone tell me, has the off-road minivan station next to Century building (below Victory Monument BTS) been relocated or is it still allowed to operate from that location?
I used to use this service to & from Nakhon Pathom & need to know if it's still running.

 

Yes its moved

[Moonmoon]

Why not a bus station at victory monument?. n build proper bus stops where there is a proper alighting n boarding bay n proper bus lanes where passengers can only alight or board from .

 

For eg look at Singapore.

[robblok]

As I said the only people that have benefited is the motorists, I don't disagree with you that traffic could be bad there
 
However this is going to cost jobs in the short and longterm, minibus drivers will lose their jobs and as domestic tourism has/will suffer jobs in other sectors will go to
 
To me this is a very badly thought out plan, let's see if it changes back, I doubt it but let's see

You make no sense about it costing jobs. There will be a shift in how people travel. Maybe more will use busses and there will be new bus lines. People don't stop to travel all of a sudden.

Its great they did something for the motorists that is a cost saver in fuel and time for many others.

Now its bad for you but good for others. You can argue all you want but you can't prove that the cost are higher than the savings motorists and others have. Plus its just a shift in how people travel. The money will go elsewhere plus the saving motorist make it might well save money over all or at least be cost neutral.

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You make no sense about it costing jobs. There will be a shift in how people travel. Maybe more will use busses and there will be new bus lines. People don't stop to travel all of a sudden.

Its great they did something for the motorists that is a cost saver in fuel and time for many others.

Now its bad for you but good for others. You can argue all you want but you can't prove that the cost are higher than the savings motorists and others have. Plus its just a shift in how people travel. The money will go elsewhere plus the saving motorist make it might well save money over all or at least be cost neutral.

 

Of course it will cost jobs, if minibus companies are forced to close that means the drivers will lose their jobs, that is pretty obvious and there is no guarantee them drivers will get new jobs driving the big buses 

 

Read one of the articles I posted, passengers to one of the border towns down to 600 a day from 2400 a day previously, have they all suddenly started to use the big buses or trains? Of course not

 

The facts are their but some people choose not to read them or don't want to read them

 

 

[bubba]

The data you keep quoting about van ridership declining from 2400/day to 600/day is from a minivan association director for a single route. Should we just assume that those data are accurate? Does it really make sense that 1800 people/day who needed to travel to a destination on a daily basis suddenly decided that because of the extra time to get from Morchit BTS or MRT to the Morchit bus station (as opposed to Victory Monument BTS to the minivan stops) the trips became unfeasible or impossible so they just stayed home?

 

And why could they not have started using regular buses and trains?

 

Just to throw another variable into the cost-benefit analysis here: If minivan routes are reduced to fewer riders, what will be the resulting economic benefits of correspondingly lower death and dismemberments that occur regularly due to unsafe minivans and their drivers?