Phuket Immigration in the dark over new ‘10-year’ visa

[Notowork]

41 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Having been here for 19 years, I have seen this modus operandi of government before, and not just in relation to immigration rules.

 

Ministers are informed of a need for a sector of the economy or problem needing to be solved. Thailand is very top-down in management style. Minister gets some proposals through cabinet BEFORE they have been properly thought through.

 

Relevant departments are then ordered to put into effect the changes but there is no infrastructure. Civil servants on the ground have no process notes, no training, nobody to refer to. There are unintended consequences because it was not worked out in advance. The public is greatly inconvenienced. Government officers take out their frustration on members of the public implying they are stupid or criminal for not following the brand new regulations.

 

Eventually all the mayhem is passed back up the chain and a workable system is cobbled together in the first 12 months with luck.

 

With regards to this new visa (??) we are not in the initial 'complete ignorance' stage. Planning occurs AFTER the launch in contrast to other countries.

The people taking the responsibility for making decisions in this country sure could learn a lot from other countries,... but seem to prefer not to take this route and  would rather battle it out on there own.

Presently I would guess about 20 years behind many other countries ,...and sad to say but they will never really catch up until their mindset changes!

[upena]

Quit calling it a 10-year visa. It is a 5-year visa.

[iancnx]

 Lol.  Funny as hell.  This is for medical tourists.  Hmmm. So how do such tourists open a bank account to deposit baht 3m before applying for this visa?  Can the apply with a visa exempt on arrival 30 day stamp? Do they hand carry the cash and? And? 

 

Ok, so it is really aimed at expats already here....... Hmmmm shame most of us in the know realise routine expat medical insurance is extortionate in this country, and out of reach for many pensioners for a variety of reasons, let alone the commitment involved in depositing baht 3m given the difficulties of repatriation of funds.  As someone mentioned on another thread if I get so sick that Requires major expenditure (by that I mean over baht 1m) I will take my chances with a one way to LHR.  I would simply declare my permanent return to UK and claim resident status.

 

I have long suspected the retirement visa rules might be 'amended' in some way, this appears to be the start of something....... Such perceived changes forthcoming are exactly why I have refused the kind invitation to become 'retired' each year when I apply for my annual marriage extension.  

 

I accept they they may well attempt to make it harder for us married folk..... Time will tell, and planning for that is stressful, but a necessary process nonetheless.

[bikerbri]

2 hours ago, tontraveller said:

and 10,000 baht each 5 years...

200 baht more than the existing visa extension, but money up front. 

[Briggsy]

14 minutes ago, Notowork said:

The people taking the responsibility for making decisions in this country sure could learn a lot from other countries,... but seem to prefer not to take this route and  would rather battle it out on there own.

Presently I would guess about 20 years behind many other countries ,...and sad to say but they will never really catch up until their mindset changes!

Yes indeed.

There is also the possibility that their performance as a minister is not assessed or reviewed, that it has no bearing on their future prospects and nobody dare criticise them. They gained their position due to membership of a patronage network and their level of seniority in it and their only focus therefore is to maintain that.

 

By tracing the process through from start to finish, you can see how a lack of transparency and a lack of accountability results in inefficient governance and ineffective delivery of government services which in turn increases costs and wasted time both for government and members of the public.

 

This perhaps can be evidenced by the hours we use travelling to and from immigration offices, sitting in them, by watching the immigration officers chit chat about what they had for lunch and then play with their phones, only to be told to go to somewhere else to retrieve a piece of paper, to come back the next day and have the piece of paper that you wasted 5 hours and 500 Baht obtaining thrust back at you as unnecessary.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Briggsy

[wealthychef]

11 minutes ago, Notowork said:

The people taking the responsibility for making decisions in this country sure could learn a lot from other countries,... but seem to prefer not to take this route and  would rather battle it out on there own.

Presently I would guess about 20 years behind many other countries ,...and sad to say but they will never really catch up until their mindset changes!

 

Please go back to your own country and fix your own government.  Personally I enjoy the chaos here;  it's why I moved here.  The USA has a stiflingly efficient culture of repression in place.  

[LivinginKata]

Here is a good recent news article ---> http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/24/details-10-year-visas-meet-mixed-reactions/

 

There is talk on Thaivisa that 50% of the 3 million on one year deposit can be taken early for medical expenses (and condos ?) . I still looking for an official anouncement.

 

Seems to the government has released some initial information without details.  Seems like they are still working through the details ... TIT

 

Edit : and it's an equivalent of US$ 10,000 baht health insurance cover.  I have the BUPA Thailand platinum policy that covers 2 million baht = not enough 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by LivinginKata

[elgordo38]

Well we have the cart has anybody seen the horse?? I know that all the great comedy teams have passed on but with a little work there should be some kind of immigration comedy resurrection here. Maybe a version of the "$64,000 Question" or "Whats My Line"

[Retiredandhappyhere]

It seems to me that every time this Government makes an announcement, they always have to issue subsequent explanations to the Thai or expat communities here, or to the outside world, because of "misunderstandings".  The implication being that the plebs do not understand the Government but it never occurs to them that their half-baked plans and confusing or lying announcements are to blame.  Here we have a newly-announced plan coming into force in 4 days time and no-one seems to fully understand it, including Immigration officials.   Now, whose fault is that, I wonder?  

 

Meanwhile thousands of expats and their families are left in limbo and in some cases, with sleepless nights, until the Government comes up once again with its future statement clarifying a new regulation which will probably already be in force. In other words, the usual chaos and incompetence, so perhaps we should not be too surprised!

[thaibeachlovers]

No problem, they will just make up whatever they want to, as they do with the yearly extensions every time I go to do one.

[bikerbri]

I was always persuaded by immigration to apply for the one year visa extension on the basis that it would be be less hassle.  Looks like the time is coming for me to suffer the hassle and go for the marriage visa,accepting of course that they will not start putting more restrictions on that as well. 

[iancnx]

7 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

 

Please go back to your own country and fix your own government.  Personally I enjoy the chaos here;  it's why I moved here.  The USA has a stiflingly efficient culture of repression in place.  

Sounds like you have not yet had the opportunity to experience the 'real' Thailand.  Sooner or later the bubble bursts and reality smacks you in the face. Good luck when it happens, your enjoyment of chaos may well be stymied as a result.

[LivinginKata]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No problem, they will just make up whatever they want to, as they do with the yearly extensions every time I go to do one.

 

Exactly correct. I've made annual extension some 19 years now. Been some major changes every few years and minor changes every year.

 

I wonder how many expats will take advantage of this new 'offer' - headline 10 year extension, but really only 5 years extension, with some heavy financial considerations for those of us at the middle to low spectrum of the income/pension scale.  I for sure will not be applying. I would rather chance the 5 year elite card at 500,000 baht fee if my circumstance or Thai rules change.

Edited November 26, 2016 by LivinginKata

[iancnx]

16 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

Here is a good recent news article ---> http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/24/details-10-year-visas-meet-mixed-reactions/

 

There is talk on Thaivisa that 50% of the 3 million on one year deposit can be taken early for medical expenses (and condos ?) . I still looking for an official anouncement.

 

Seems to the government has released some initial information without details.  Seems like they are still working through the details ... TIT

 

Edit : and it's an equivalent of US$ 10,000 baht health insurance cover.  I have the BUPA Thailand platinum policy that covers 2 million baht = not enough 

 

 

Apologies for asking but could you say how much the premium is for Bupa Thai Platinum policy 2m baht coverage?  Could be of interest to those worrying themselves here.  GL to all those affected if this all turns bad for retirees.  

[LivinginKata]

4 minutes ago, iancnx said:

 

Apologies for asking but could you say how much the premium is for Bupa Thai Platinum policy 2m baht coverage?  Could be of interest to those worrying themselves here.  GL to all those affected if this all turns bad for retirees.  

 

Much depends on your age --> check  https://www.bupa.co.th/en/individuals.aspx  and enter your own age.

 

For me ... I'm am an old dude. I signed up with BUPA at 59 as after that they don't give health insurance after 65, while I have insurance for life ... if I can afford the annual premium.  I paid 95,000 baht this year with 10% discount if pay on time and another 10% no claims cheque each 6 months.  I've never claimed on my policy.  

 

 

 

[jmd8800]

It might just be the people applying for new long stay visa in their home countries will be subject to the new requirements and those already here will remain on extension of stay. Kind of a grandfather clause.

[LivinginKata]

Just now, jmd8800 said:

It might just be the people applying for new long stay visa in their home countries will be subject to the new requirements and those already here will remain on extension of stay. Kind of a grandfather clause.

 

I'm all for visitors/long stayers to Thailand (or any other country) should be required to have some sort of health insurance plan.  Too many foreigners get here with no plan, have a major accident or health scare, land up in hospital, can't pay the bills, and appeal to others for help.

 

[NamKangMan]

21 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Exactly correct. I've made annual extension some 19 years now. Been some major changes every few years and minor changes every year.

 

I wonder how many expats will take advantage of this new 'offer' - headline 10 year extension, but really only 5 years extension, with some heavy financial considerations for those of us at the middle to low spectrum of the income/pension scale.  I for sure will not be applying. I would rather chance the 5 year elite card at 500,000 baht fee if my circumstance or Thai rules change.

 

 

"I wonder how many expats will take advantage of this new 'offer' - you are assuming this "offer" is adding a new visa category, when it very well may be replacing an existing visa category, most likely, the retirement visa.

 

I've said on this forum many times, with a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, they can change the visa requirements, and inject foreign capital into Thai banks, virtually overnight. 

 

[DoctorG]

With the limited info available I can only surmise that some Cabinet Member has invested in a large retirement village/hospice for farangs.

This is the only thing that makes sense for an expat wanting a long-term visa with a high medical contribution. An ordinary medical tourist only needs a visa for a relatively short time to get the procedure done, and to recover. Certainly does not need 5 years.

[Pattaya Wolf]

I am 69 years of age I have had insurance with Thai life for the last ten years just for in  patients, I was informed last year my cover would be extended until I am eighty years of age. I usually pay my premiums every 3 months. Last week I went to pay as usual, but was informed because i am 70 years in January I am no longer eligible for hospital cover, the new age cover for 80 years only applies for new policies. I am having to review my position in regards staying here or going back to blighty. Amazing Thailand!

[Aforek]

2 hours ago, JustNo said:

You say 'would not replace the normal 1 year permission to stay' but that is not clear at all. In fact, in the original notification about this a few days ago, it suggested that it was going to be replacing the 1 year of stay, and that you would need to meet all of the requirements. 

You have not read the original notification : nowhere it's said that it will replace the normal 1 year permission of stay; as said already, it's the foreigner who choose to have the new visa or not

[LivinginKata]

3 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

"I wonder how many expats will take advantage of this new 'offer' - you are assuming this "offer" is adding a new visa category, when it very well may be replacing an existing visa category, most likely, the retirement visa.

 

I've said on this forum many times, with a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, they can change the visa requirements, and inject foreign capital into Thai banks, virtually overnight. 

 

 

And you are assuming that the existing one year will no longer be available. There has been no official announcement that is the case.... as yet. But I grant you that "with a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, they can change the visa requirements, and inject foreign capital into Thai banks, virtually overnight". 

 

 

[Jiggo]

Too much false information and guessing by readers, can not understand why people are getting so  ''worked up''...their is no mentioning that the 1 year retirement visa is being curtailed (or Phuket immigration would tell us LOL).

 

Just wait and see....cha cha

[NamKangMan]

A foreigner can not get a retirement visa under 50 years of age, because, apparently, foreigners can not retire before they are 50.

 

Now, as soon as you turn 50, you are prone to serious long term health issues that will burden the Thai health care system.

 

You have to laugh at their BS here.  

[NamKangMan]

5 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

And you are assuming that the existing one year will no longer be available. There has been no official announcement that is the case.... as yet. But I grant you that "with a stoke of a pen in Bangkok, they can change the visa requirements, and inject foreign capital into Thai banks, virtually overnight". 

 

 

 

 

I'm not "assuming" anything, LIK. 

 

Only suggesting members monitor the situation, review their financial situation, investigate a Plan B, and be prepared to enact their Plan B, should visa changes force them to do so. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

Just now, NamKangMan said:

A foreigner can not get a retirement visa under 50 years of age, because, apparently, foreigners can not retire before they are 50.

 

Now, as soon as you turn 50, you are prone to serious long term health issues that will burden the Thai health care system.

 

You have to laugh at their BS here.  

 

I've never really understood the Immigration policy for retirement visa/extension. Used to be 65 when I arrived here, then 60, then 55, and now 50.  Common sense would say that anyone of any age with 800,000 baht (as of current regulation) can apply for a one year extension. But hey that needs coomon sense ... or just a big anual fee for one year ... I'm sure many would be happy to pay at least 10,000 baht or more.

 

[LivinginKata]

2 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

I'm not "assuming" anything, LIK. 

 

Only suggesting members monitor the situation, review their financial situation, investigate a Plan B, and be prepared to enact their Plan B, should visa changes force them to do so. 

 

I have a plan B and C, maybe even D. 

[NamKangMan]

12 minutes ago, Aforek said:

You have not read the original notification : nowhere it's said that it will replace the normal 1 year permission of stay; as said already, it's the foreigner who choose to have the new visa or not

 

 

Can you post a quote where it clearly states that this visa WILL NOT replace an existing visa category?

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, NamKangMan said:

Can you post a quote where it clearly states that this visa WILL NOT replace an existing visa category?

I agree with Aforek - the year-to-year extension will remain for those who already have a visa; for new applicants the one-year visa will be replaced by the five-year visa (with its increased obligations).

[LivinginKata]

Just now, NamKangMan said:

 

 

Can you post a quote where it clearly states that this visa WILL NOT replace an existing visa category?

 

Don't be silly NKM ... there is little to quote as even Immigration has not formulated their new plan ... I'll be less polite ... they don't have a clue.