Trump assails recount push, claims millions voted illegally

[webfact]

Trump assails recount push, claims millions voted illegally

By STEVE PEOPLES and CALVIN WOODWARD

 

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — President-elect Donald Trump claimed without evidence Sunday that "millions" voted illegally in the national election, scoffing at Hillary Clinton's nearly 2 million edge in the popular vote and returning to his campaign mantra of a rigged race even as he prepares to enter the White House in less than two months.

 

Trump and his lieutenants assailed an effort — now joined by Clinton — to recount votes in up to three battleground states, calling the push fraudulent, the work of "crybabies" and, in Trump's estimation, "sad."

 

The president-elect went on to cast a shadow over the legitimacy of an election that he actually won, tweeting that "I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally." He provided further contended that if the popular vote determined the presidency, "It would have been much easier for me to win" it because he would have altered his campaign to pile up overall vote totals, not Electoral College votes.

 

There's been no indication of widespread vote manipulation, illegal voting or hacking that materially affected the outcome one way or the other. It's that very lack of evidence that suggests Trump is likely to prevail in recounts.

 

As Trump worked to fill foreign policy and national security posts in his Cabinet, a top adviser expressed astonishment that 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney remained under consideration for secretary of state after his campaign-long questioning of Trump's character, intellect and integrity.

 

Trump on Sunday tweeted part of Clinton's concession speech, when she told supporters they must accept that "Donald Trump is going to be our president," and snippets from her debate remarks, when she denounced the Republican nominee for refusing to say in advance that he would accept the Election Day verdict.

 

This came on top of his saying it was a "scam" that Green Party nominee Jill Stein was revisiting the vote count in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. Trump won Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and as of Wednesday, held a lead of almost 11,000 votes in Michigan, with the results awaiting state certification Monday. His Michigan margin was a hair's breadth 0.22 percent of the state's votes.

 

Clinton leads the national popular vote by close to 2 million votes, but Trump won 290 electoral votes to Clinton's 232, not counting Michigan. She could conceivably tip the electoral balance in the remote event that all flipped to her in recounts.

 

Trump planned to return to New York on Sunday after spending Thanksgiving weekend at his West Palm Beach estate. His transition team said the president-elect had scheduled a series of meetings Monday with prospective administration hires.

 

Among the jobs Trump has still yet to fill: secretary of state. Internal division over the position again spilled out into the open on Sunday as Trump senior adviser Kellyanne Conway voiced her concerns with the possibility of Romney landing such a significant position.

 

Trump supporters "feel a bit betrayed that you can get a Romney back in there after everything he did," Conway said. "We don't even know if he voted for Donald Trump. He and his consultants were nothing but awful to Donald Trump for a year." She added that she was "reflecting what the grassroots are saying."

 

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker are among other prospects to serve as the country's top diplomat.

 

"I'm all for party unity, but I'm not sure we have to pay for that with the secretary of state position," Conway said.

 

Trump's incoming chief of staff, national party Chairman Reince Priebus, acknowledged that Romney would represent "a team of rivals concept."

 

Trump was mostly silent on the brewing recount effort until it became known that Clinton would join it, at least in Wisconsin. On Saturday, a day after Wisconsin officials said they would conduct the first presidential recount in the state's history, Clinton campaign attorney Marc Elias said: "We intend to participate in order to ensure the process proceeds in a manner that is fair to all sides."

 

Elias said Clinton would take the same approach in Pennsylvania and Michigan if Stein were to follow through with recount requests in those states.

 

That loosened Trump's tongue.

 

"Hillary Clinton conceded the election when she called me just prior to the victory speech and after the results were in," Trump tweeted Sunday. "Nothing will change."

 

He quoted from her concession speech — "We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead" — and he concluded: "So much time and money will be spent - same result! Sad."

 

On NBC's "Meet the Press," Conway said Stein, "the Hillary people" and others supporting recounts have to decide whether they are going to back a peaceful transition "or if they're going to be a bunch of crybabies and sore losers about an election that they can't turn around."

 

Priebus, on "Fox News Sunday," called the effort a "total and complete distraction and a fraud and something that they should drop."

 

Clinton's lawyer said her team has been combing through the results since the election in search of anomalies that would suggest hacking by Russians or others and found "no actionable evidence" of an altered outcome. Moreover, Elias said, Trump has a vote lead even in the closest states that well exceeds the largest margin ever overcome in a recount.

 

But "we feel it is important, on principle, to ensure our campaign is legally represented in any court proceedings and represented on the ground in order to monitor the recount process itself," he said.

 

Trump beat Clinton in Wisconsin by fewer than 22,200 votes, less than 1 percent of votes cast. He won Pennsylvania by some 70,600 votes, just more than 1 percentage point over Clinton.

___

Woodward reported from Washington. Associated Press writer Anne Flaherty also contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-11-28

[JAG]

He would have won the popular vote if all the illegal votes were discounted!

 

The Big Lie?  (first of many).

 

Goebbels was rather better at it.

 

All"movements " need an enemy within to struggle against, it gives them an excuse for action.

 

The Nazis had the Jews,  Stalin had the bourgeoisie ,  Castro  had the CIA agents, perhaps Trump will have the "illegals"?

[Diplomatico]

  Both CNN and the AP (whose story is quoted here) are playing up the fact that Trump is claiming "without evidence" that illegals voted in the election.  I don't disagree with that assessment, I doubt there is evidence of that.

 

  However, it's pretty hypocritical that those same media outlets don't also portray the three state recount efforts due to so-called "election interference" as being "without evidence".  

 

  I have no problems with the media calling out Trump for making dubious claims; they should be equally vociferous in calling out the other parties for similar dubious claims.  

[coma]

Bias reporting ? Maybe. But considering he is the President elect he should NOT even be going close to the subject of electoral fraud. A. He doesn't need to. And B. it gives the media the minuscule opening they need to mix words and make him look like a fool to many gullible constituents.

 

I guess people [ the losers ] are looking for electoral change before the next election in four years. And this is a good' way to drum up support for that change.

[stevenl]

  Both CNN and the AP (whose story is quoted here) are playing up the fact that Trump is claiming "without evidence" that illegals voted in the election.  I don't disagree with that assessment, I doubt there is evidence of that.
 
  However, it's pretty hypocritical that those same media outlets don't also portray the three state recount efforts due to so-called "election interference" as being "without evidence".  
 
  I have no problems with the media calling out Trump for making dubious claims; they should be equally vociferous in calling out the other parties for similar dubious claims.  

But there is evidence. However, that evidence is weak, as has been mentioned many times by the outlets you mention.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[Rob13]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

But there is evidence. However, that evidence is weak, as has been mentioned many times by the outlets you mention.

 

 

Link?

[Scott]

Posting misinformation is against forum rules and continuing to do so will result in suspensions.  

 

Troll post removed.  

[Diplomatico]

52 minutes ago, stevenl said:

But there is evidence. However, that evidence is weak, as has been mentioned many times by the outlets you mention.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

  There is zero evidence that I've seen reported.  Nate Silver, notable and respected statistician, says that demographics (not hacking) explain the election results in those states:

 

  "There’s no clear evidence that the voting method used in a county — by machine or by paper — had an effect on the vote. Anyone making allegations of a possible massive electoral hack should provide proof, and we can’t find any."

 

  http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the-election-results/

 

 

[whybother]

2 minutes ago, Diplomatico said:

 

  There is zero evidence that I've seen reported.  Nate Silver, notable and respected statistician, says that demographics (not hacking) explain the election results in those states:

 

  "There’s no clear evidence that the voting method used in a county — by machine or by paper — had an effect on the vote. Anyone making allegations of a possible massive electoral hack should provide proof, and we can’t find any."

 

  http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the-election-results/

 

 

 

There is evidence that the voting trends in electorates with electronic machines were different than the electorates with paper based voting.  Some people are using demographics to explain that difference, but that doesn't discount that it IS evidence, however weak.

 

[Andaman Al]

Trump is a fool and his lack of self discipline will be his total undoing.

[Diplomatico]

Just now, whybother said:

 

There is evidence that the voting trends in electorates with electronic machines were different than the electorates with paper based voting.  Some people are using demographics to explain that difference, but that doesn't discount that it IS evidence, however weak.

 

 

  It is by no means evidence of tampering, though.  Why the recount in Michigan?  It's all paper ballots there.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Trump is a fool and his lack of self discipline will be his total undoing.

 

  Hard to argue that point.

[Pimay1]

4 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Trump is a fool and his lack of self discipline will be his total undoing.

If Trump had the lack of self discipline I don't think he would be a billionaire and be in the position of president elect. I don't particularly agree with everything he says but he shoots straight from the hip and that is one thing liberals can't stand.

[freebyrd]

President-elect Donald Trump claimed without evidence Sunday that "millions" voted illegally

 

That cuts both ways as it could also be the reason why he won?

[whybother]

4 minutes ago, Diplomatico said:

 

  It is by no means evidence of tampering, though.  Why the recount in Michigan?  It's all paper ballots there.  

 

 

It's evidence that something is amiss.  I don't know why they're recounting Michigan, but maybe because it's a close result.

[daveAustin]

I can see one thing coming out of this; Clinton is no longer off the hook.

[Pimay1]

1 minute ago, daveAustin said:

I can see one thing coming out of this; Clinton is no longer off the hook.

I agree. She should have been smart enough to left well enough alone.

[whybother]

Just now, Pimay1 said:

I agree. She should have been smart enough to left well enough alone.

 

Clinton didn't request the recount.

[Pimay1]

3 minutes ago, whybother said:

 

Clinton didn't request the recount.

No but she has jumped on the bandwagon.

[whybother]

2 minutes ago, Pimay1 said:

No but she has jumped on the bandwagon.

 

Why wouldn't the Democrats be involved in checking that the recount is done correctly?  There is a lot that goes into validating votes that needs people from all sides to verify.

[klauskunkel]

Quote

Mitt Romney remained under consideration for secretary of state after his campaign-long questioning of Trump's character, intellect and integrity.

questioning of minor attributes only... he gets a pass

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

He would have won the popular vote if all the illegal votes were discounted!

 

The Big Lie?  (first of many).

 

Goebbels was rather better at it.

 

All"movements " need an enemy within to struggle against, it gives them an excuse for action.

 

The Nazis had the Jews,  Stalin had the bourgeoisie ,  Castro  had the CIA agents, perhaps Trump will have the "illegals"?

 

Get used to it, more bluster and too quick to open his mouth.

 

I'm the boss you don't need to ask questions, just listen to me and feel intimidated, i'm always right even when it's obvious there is no logic behind what I say.

 

Just waiting for the occasion where he puts his foot in his mouth with a foreign leader.

 

And/or when the rednecks who think magically all factories in the USA are going to magically re-open, and they don't and the rednecks get angry. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by scorecard

[lannarebirth]

39 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Trump is a fool and his lack of self discipline will be his total undoing.

 

He's not in it for te long haul IMO. I don't think anyone was more shocked than him that he won  and I think missing out on all the opportunities almost winning would have brought is very upsetting to him. He'll likely now try to create opportunities for himself in the situation he finds himself, which will be his undoing. I think he resigns when he finds it to maximum advantage to do so.

[Emster23]

".. a top adviser expressed astonishment that 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney remained under consideration for secretary of state after his campaign-long questioning of Trump's character, intellect and integrity. "

 However, he would begrudgingly admit Romney can see the forest in spite of the trees....

[Silurian]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

President-elect Donald Trump claimed without evidence

 

This is news? Of course he claimed something without evidence as he has done this whole campaign. It is nothing new. Just random thrashing about spewing nonsense and vitriol. Typical Donald. He should just "man up" and take the recount as is. Instead he reacts like the child that he is wont to be. I doubt there will be any change but Donald doesn't like to share any spotlight. It needs to be about him all the time.

[Anthony5]

1 hour ago, freebyrd said:

President-elect Donald Trump claimed without evidence Sunday that "millions" voted illegally

 

That cuts both ways as it could also be the reason why he won?

 

You think the illegals would vote to get deported asap?

[lannarebirth]

Just now, Anthony5 said:

 

You think the illegals would vote to get deported asap?

 

Doesn't make even a little bit of sense. If I were an illegal alien I would steer well clear of any official government functions.

[Anthony5]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Among the jobs Trump has still yet to fill: secretary of state. Internal division over the position again spilled out into the open on Sunday as Trump senior adviser Kellyanne Conway voiced her concerns with the possibility of Romney landing such a significant position.

 

Trump supporters "feel a bit betrayed that you can get a Romney back in there after everything he did," Conway said. "We don't even know if he voted for Donald Trump. He and his consultants were nothing but awful to Donald Trump for a year." She added that she was "reflecting what the grassroots are saying."

 

I don't like Romney myself, but if he's the best man for the job then he should get the job, regardless of what he said or who he voted for.

[Rob13]

Seems to me that if there were voter fraud, there's good chance it would be discovered in a re-count. If Trump actually believed what he's claiming, a re-count could prove he won the popular vote. Makes you wonder what he's afraid of.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Rob13

[DM07]

Sooooo...in the last 3.000 years, there have been a hand full of voter fraud -cases, that actually hold some water.

But in this election, 2,5 Million illegal votes were casted, huh?!

The orange man baby needs a reality check!

And fast!

[geriatrickid]

3 hours ago, Diplomatico said:

  Both CNN and the AP (whose story is quoted here) are playing up the fact that Trump is claiming "without evidence" that illegals voted in the election.  I don't disagree with that assessment, I doubt there is evidence of that.

 

  However, it's pretty hypocritical that those same media outlets don't also portray the three state recount efforts due to so-called "election interference" as being "without evidence".  

 

  I have no problems with the media calling out Trump for making dubious claims; they should be equally vociferous in calling out the other parties for similar dubious claims.  

 

The difference is that the recount is a legal action and a legitimate exercise in light of   Trump receiving  2.5 million fewer votes than Clinton. The recount is legal and supported in law. The   claim of illegal voters is not substantiated  nor supported in law because almost all the states where the illegal voting is alleged to have occurred had Republican  officials  in charge of voting registration