Brain-storming session to solve garbage problem on Koh Samui

[webfact]

Brain-storming session to solve garbage problem on Koh Samui

 

 

KOH SAMUI: -- Thai PBS, in cooperation with Koh Samui municipal, Tourism Authority of Thailand, hotels, schools and other stakeholders held a round-table discussion on the resort island to mobilize opinions on how to tackle garbage disposal problem.

 

About 200 people representing a host of stakeholders took part in the brain-storming session.

 

There are about 300,000 tonnes of garbage on the island awaiting to be disposed of. On top of that, about 150 tonnes of garbage are added each day.

 

Representatives of the hotel industry told the meeting that they would like to turn their leftover food into organic fertilizer or manure which would have reduced the amount of garbage generated from hotels and resorts on the island by about 20 percent.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/brain-storming-session-to-solve-garbage-problem-on-koh-samui/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2016-11-30

[Thechook]

How many brainstorming sessions have they had now?  About all the achieve is the increase in paracetamol sales and decide on the menu for the next brainstorming get together

[edwinchester]

Jeez....how many people, meetings, committees etc does it take to fix the incinerator?

[Thechook]

2 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

Jeez....how many people, meetings, committees etc does it take to fix the incinerator?

We need to have a specific meeting about that as it hasn't been discussed yet.  The food was lovely and so was the wine, we are considering the same catering next time.

[thhMan]

2 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Jeez....how many people, meetings, committees etc does it take to fix the incinerator?

It will take as long as it takes for the attendees to work out why they are there

[12DrinkMore]

Where's the round table?

[ksamuiguy]

It was solved 15 years ago, when I first came to Samui I was invited to plant with the "inference" if doing operation and maintenance.

The plant was in excellent shape, courser inspection was good everything was working, operators seemed competent. The plant was very impressive, but there was a problem "Not Enough Garbage" the plant is designed to operate 24/7.

Access to the main dump pit was crazy because the trucks that delivered the garbage were the wrong type and could not seal to the "Dump Door' so most went on the ramp and needed to be pushed/swept in to the pit, this also resulted in the pit doors being open for extended periods of time and the smell was a big problem at times depending on the wind.

 

If i remember correctly the yearly maintenance on the plant,"the whole plant' scales, offices etc was around 8,000,000 USD, (i was told???) The plant was of Japanese design and construction and was highly efficient with less than 1 % waste left over in the form of water and ash.

Now the problem seems to be no one wanted to pay for garbage disposal so there were no funds of operate and maintain the plant.

The weight scale stayed open for a while after the plant ceased operation as the "Official Samui Scale".

 

If anyone remember any further details please let me know, I may be mistaken in many details as it was a long time ago, but when it was in operation it was an impressive piece of engineering design and efficiency.

 

I will try and find some of the old documents I had, and photos, but the technology available back than it was difficult to make and keep records.

 

Does anyone else remember, Some one built the plant are there any surviving records, drawings, photos and specifications, who owns the land, Chinot?

very interesting! Who was the contractor just seems to be no information avaliable.

 

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

18 minutes ago, ksamuiguy said:

If i remember correctly the yearly maintenance on the plant,"the whole plant' scales, offices etc was around 8,000,000 USD, (i was told???) The plant was of Japanese design and construction and was highly efficient with less than 1 % waste left over in the form of water and ash.

Now the problem seems to be no one wanted to pay for garbage disposal so there were no funds of operate and maintain the plant.

 

$8MM a year for 150 tons a day is around $150 per ton.  Plus the cost of hauling it to the facility.

 

Does that sound like a reasonable fee?  I'm curious, not making a point.  Waste management isn't my background.

[ronaldo0]

Simple solution. Fix the thing, replace it or ship all the garbage off the island !!

Then no doubt they would say but where is the money to do this. There arises the next problem ! That problem is find out who has kept all the money that was meant to be for the garbage system over all these years and where is it !!

Take take take is all they seem to do on this island, no thought of anything that might happen in the future or what destruction or environmental problems may arise .

As long as they all have nice new mercs to drive around in then everything is wonderful !!

[Emster23]

Brain storming session?

"Okay, who brought the brains?"

"You said you'd get some over at Tesco"

"Yeah, but they were out of stock. No hab."

"Oh, well... on with the meeting. Care for some more shrimp?"

[ksamuiguy]

the plant had no garbage to burn, the capacity of the plant was well over 1000 tons a day, don't remember specs, but no garbage to keep it running, and not that much garbage back than. The plant stopped operation due to lack of product and no one wanted to pay. Garbage  collection is not a money maker if done by the government, private operations make money and get paid! that is the key, it cost money to get rid of garbage and no one wants to pay.

[hotchilli]

There's no point asking local people to brainstorm an idea when they don't have a brain cell between them all, the only thing they know is how to rip-off farangs for a quick profit!
Easy solution... turn Samui into one huge sh*thole commercially...

[impulse]

51 minutes ago, ksamuiguy said:

the plant had no garbage to burn, the capacity of the plant was well over 1000 tons a day, don't remember specs, but no garbage to keep it running, and not that much garbage back than. The plant stopped operation due to lack of product and no one wanted to pay. Garbage  collection is not a money maker if done by the government, private operations make money and get paid! that is the key, it cost money to get rid of garbage and no one wants to pay.

 

Nobody wants to pay to handle the garbage?  Eezy peezy.  

 

Wikipedia says Samui has 17,000 rooms at 73% occupancy.  That's about 4.5 million room rentals a year.

 

Charge 'em all a $2.00 waste management surcharge and ya got your $8MM.  Charge 'em $3.00 and you have room for graft and corruption.  Jigger the numbers if the room count or occupancy rate changes- or charge a percentage if it's too onerous for the Cheap Charlies.

 

Doesn't cost the locals a dime.  Zip.  Nada.  Tourists are accustomed to being nickeled and dimed every time they see a bill.  Look at the stub on your airline ticket if you don't believe me.

 

Hell, we even finance football stadiums for billionaires by stiffing tourists back home.  I've paid $$$ thousands in stadium taxes for seats I'll never sit in.  Just because I stayed in a hotel or rented a car in a town.

[thai3]

You can't say brain storming these days, it's offensive to epileptic's, apparently  

[Beats56]

Brain storming. I smell rubber burning!

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

7 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Jeez....how many people, meetings, committees etc does it take to fix the incinerator?

not quite that simple. the piled up garbage will be wet and partially decomposed. cant be burnt now, it needs to be buried some where it is not going to get into any used ground water.

[ksamuiguy]

the temperature in the incinerator reaches over 1,400 and the second chamber even higher, nothing survives at the output end. everything is gone. It was just a few ashes, nuggets of metal and some water.

The plant was a thing of beauty not a barrel with a stove pipe stuck in the top.

 

if the plant was working you could build a conveyor to the inlet pit and slowly you could get rid of it, not an easy job , but the alternative (ground water contamination) is much farther reaching and it can't be cleaned up

[elgordo38]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

About 200 people representing a host of stakeholders took part in the brain-storming session.

This word brain storming here always scares me. Reminds me of the old Indian saying "Heap big smoke but no fire"

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

not quite that simple. the piled up garbage will be wet and partially decomposed. cant be burnt now, it needs to be buried some where it is not going to get into any used ground water.

Yes, agree the existing heap is a major problem. Just as bad is that problem being added to every single day and if the incinerator is not resurrected then Samui will eventually disappear under it's own waste.

[adhd]

re-cycle-men

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, ksamuiguy said:

It was solved 15 years ago, when I first came to Samui I was invited to plant with the "inference" if doing operation and maintenance.

The plant was in excellent shape, courser inspection was good everything was working, operators seemed competent. The plant was very impressive, but there was a problem "Not Enough Garbage" the plant is designed to operate 24/7.

Access to the main dump pit was crazy because the trucks that delivered the garbage were the wrong type and could not seal to the "Dump Door' so most went on the ramp and needed to be pushed/swept in to the pit, this also resulted in the pit doors being open for extended periods of time and the smell was a big problem at times depending on the wind.

 

If i remember correctly the yearly maintenance on the plant,"the whole plant' scales, offices etc was around 8,000,000 USD, (i was told???) The plant was of Japanese design and construction and was highly efficient with less than 1 % waste left over in the form of water and ash.

Now the problem seems to be no one wanted to pay for garbage disposal so there were no funds of operate and maintain the plant.

The weight scale stayed open for a while after the plant ceased operation as the "Official Samui Scale".

 

If anyone remember any further details please let me know, I may be mistaken in many details as it was a long time ago, but when it was in operation it was an impressive piece of engineering design and efficiency.

 

I will try and find some of the old documents I had, and photos, but the technology available back than it was difficult to make and keep records.

 

Does anyone else remember, Some one built the plant are there any surviving records, drawings, photos and specifications, who owns the land, Chinot?

very interesting! Who was the contractor just seems to be no information avaliable.

The printed local newspapares at Samui – think it's now 4 years ago (or more) the last one stopped – wrote articles about the garbage problem more than once. The incinerator stopped operating because of a malfunction, and thereafter several years discussion about warranty and who should pay for it. It was said, that there were (are still?) two incinerators, of which one stopped working, and the other worked on 40% capacity only. If that's so, the garbage situation could have been solved years ago by ordering spare parts and get the thing in working condition – forget about warranty, probably cheaper in long run than depositing, and all the long-term problems that will cause – use the hotal tax (eventually raise it from 1% to 2% insetad) to cover any intial investment, and let us all pay the cost for daily/weekly collection and running the disposal plant. Not long ago, when one again the subject were up in the news feed, hotels were said to pay a fixed fee only, instead of fee based on actual amount of garbage. And sorting the waste is always a good idea, but a 20% cut will not solve the problem, just cut it to 120 tons a day.

[Grubster]

Yeah just put it on the residents who primarily work for these morons. Pay em minimum wage and then take some back. I don't think there will be many lightning bolts coming out of this storm.

[ksamuiguy]

I don't believe there are any people who remember how to operate the plant, records of maintenance and spare parts!

To bad because there is so much talent available in the form of retired Farang Engineers and other experts that could fix the "thing", evaluate the problem, provide a "PLAN" to see if the system can be resurrected to its former glory.

 

But alas this vast cornucopia of experience and talent is going to waste due to stupid restrictions. (I won't go there).

There are many who would work free, "but need free lunch" and provide their expertise set up a TEAM to come up with a PLAN.

But impossible here, to bad such a waste of available talent going to waste.

 

If anyone can find old articles on the plant it would be appreciated if you could send them to me, also who built it.

[Haecksler]

Amazing a major and threatening problem and 23 posts only.

Tells me a lot.

@ ksamuiguy    

I don't know from where you have all your information but the most I can see are wrong.

Samui incinerator had a capacity of 140 tons/d. It was shut down because of a failed modification by the operator.

It was always given the impression that the plant on Samui went well. It was not.

Due to the incredible high water content in the waste the operator spend a fortune on diesel fuel.

It was only as much fuel spend in order to keep the process running. Dioxin levels in the stack gas was the highest ever measured world wide. (this information are out of a public domain)

The fuel was burnt by the auxiliary  burner and at the oil peak in 2007 they installed another burner. I've been told this causes the total clogging of the furnace and it was shut down.

There is nowhere any discussion or information how fly ash is handled as this ash is highly hazard. (I can see this problem as the strongest argument against incineration of MSW in the non developed world.)

Waste to energy only work if you separate and pre treat the waste properly.

Waste management is expensive.

Sustainability is uncomfortable.

People have to understand this.

 

[DiscoDan]

A good start would be for the government to put a 1 thb surcharge on all water bottles and cans etc which could be refunded when they are returned.

[bokningar]

On 11/30/2016 at 11:55 AM, impulse said:

 

Nobody wants to pay to handle the garbage?  Eezy peezy.  

 

Wikipedia says Samui has 17,000 rooms at 73% occupancy.  That's about 4.5 million room rentals a year.

 

Charge 'em all a $2.00 waste management surcharge and ya got your $8MM.  Charge 'em $3.00 and you have room for graft and corruption.  Jigger the numbers if the room count or occupancy rate changes- or charge a percentage if it's too onerous for the Cheap Charlies.

 

Doesn't cost the locals a dime.  Zip.  Nada.  Tourists are accustomed to being nickeled and dimed every time they see a bill.  Look at the stub on your airline ticket if you don't believe me.

 

Hell, we even finance football stadiums for billionaires by stiffing tourists back home.  I've paid $$$ thousands in stadium taxes for seats I'll never sit in.  Just because I stayed in a hotel or rented a car in a town.

Read this again, this is an idea that might work here. It has 4 million US in corruption money built in to it.

How can an idea that have a potential 140 million THB in deep pocket possibility built in to it not happen??   

 

[losworld]

You see meetings are a good idea.  If one has a budget and has only meetings.... hmmmm new Mercedes.

[Tropicalevo]

On 30/11/2016 at 6:29 AM, edwinchester said:

Jeez....how many people, meetings, committees etc does it take to fix the incinerator?

 

None. It takes money.

 

Money that most contributors on this forum do not pay.

[Tropicalevo]

On 30/11/2016 at 10:47 AM, ronaldo0 said:

Simple solution. Fix the thing, replace it or ship all the garbage off the island !!

Then no doubt they would say but where is the money to do this. There arises the next problem ! That problem is find out who has kept all the money that was meant to be for the garbage system over all these years and where is it !!

Take take take is all they seem to do on this island, no thought of anything that might happen in the future or what destruction or environmental problems may arise .

As long as they all have nice new mercs to drive around in then everything is wonderful !!

 

One major flaw in your argument.

 

Most people on Samui do not pay the garbage tax! They just dump illegally.

 

It is nothing to do with new cars etc.

 

Do you pay the tax?

[ronaldo0]

Most of the people on this island dump wherever they see either green bins, skips or piles of garbage that are already there as they assume it is a collection point. I know this as i had a large waste bin i bought to put my garbage outside my villa in and after less than 2 weeks everyone around started using it and dumping their garbage around it . I ended up removing it and took it inside.

 

I meant the new cars were paid for by money meant to be for public things on this island that suddenly cost more than planned or ran out of funds. If you think this doesn't happen in this country you are very naive.

 

I paid the garbage truck before that collected from my villa , i paid service charge to the estate owner to remove my garbage weekly in another villa and i pay tax for having business here . Any other tax i and i bet most other people have never been asked to pay and i know from recent conversation about this would not have any problem paying if they were asked providing there was some structured service provided. But it seems they cant even organise this on samui. It is sporadic at best or collection in areas suddenly stops with no reason.